508 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

Overule wrote...

Hope makes people stupid. That's about all that needs to be said.

Without hope, we might as well be machines

That is true. However it is a known fact that computers are much better "thinkers" than humans.
Which, really, just goes to show.

[VampireSoap]

AlphaDormante wrote...

I see; I misunderstood your initial post, then. I agree, a balance should be maintained between emotions and logic at all times - I merely wanted to combat the opinion that logic was more important to the definition of a person than emotion was. If that wasn't your intent, I apologize for misreading

I don't believe the Indoctrination Theory is intended as true, but I choose to apply it myself because it fixes a lot of what I find wrong with the endings. I still hope BioWare will give us something substantial soon, though =

Thank you. I hope so as well.:happy: I really don't want the series just die like this. It's such a shame.

Modifié par VampireSoap, 01 avril 2012 - 05:43 .

[nukular power]

AlphaDormante wrote...


Could we please not drag religion into this? The thread will degenerate in about 20 minutes.

Seriously?  Did you miss the 23098 times the OP typed out "people who believe in magical beings in the sky", "science students don't believe in magical beings in the sky", etc?

[nukular power]

VampireSoap wrote...

Based on what facts that you make the conclusion that I am an atheist and I think that the ending is better?

If you don't think the "space magic" ending is the better interpretation, why are you wasting forum space with this thread?  - is a better question

[RyuujinZERO]

Tirigon wrote...

That is true. However it is a known fact that computers are much better "thinkers" than humans.
Which, really, just goes to show.

Computers can't "think" :/ - they can crunch numbers faster, but the software they use to process that data still has to be written by humans, therefore they are limited to what a human mind can tell them to think. But anyway this is off topic and irrelevant

We don't need to think "fast" here, just need to think critically and compile data... all the data. Imagine it like a scatter graph... drop stuff down, see whether it forms a neat line pointing to indoctrination , or if it's scattered all over the show; right now we have a lot of cherry picking going on; people only accepting data points that fit their hypothesis but discarding evidence that falls outside of it.

[Melra]

I don't believe in it, I think it's rubbish. I enjoy my ending as it is. More details would be welcome, but are not necessary. One my main regrets is that MP plays too big of a role in SP.

[Kajan451]

VampireSoap wrote...

There is no way game writers will hide the plots so sophisticated that it takes speculations in this depth to piece the story together

Actually there is, but (or rather BUT ) its never a stand alone thing. Its an additional fanservice, some goodie you give to the the people that were loyal to you all these years. You give a Situation everyone can comprehend, easily, without needing to piece stuff together, but add some depth to it, at which point everyone that knows the story will be "Boah, cool! I knew it!".


So if you take the indoctrination theory for example, you don't stop there. You keep on telling the tale. Have someone pull your mainchar out of the rubble after he picked the Destruction Ending and explain to the audience that it was in fact an Indoctrination attempt he was able to shake.. and then proceed to give a real ending. The real fans then will remember all those oily shadow dialogues, all the scenes, how much he has resembled Saren and all that.

The res will not have that knowledge, but noone would have been confused. And then, at the very end, you foreshadow some tradgedy... maybe by showing the boy amongst the Crowd as the Hero waves cheerful to the cheering masses as he strolls down a victory lane. You have him stop smiling, looking into the crowd as he sees the kid... and then you fade to black with a reaper growl.

That way you forshadow the fall of the protagonist, because even if he has "beat" the indoctrination for a time, everyone knows the fall will be inevitable. And then you can release Mass Effect 4, from another persons perspective fighting the old protagonist who has finally succumbed to the Indoctrination, even though the Reapers are gone.. attempting to bring them back or something.

[AlphaDormante]

nukular power wrote...

AlphaDormante wrote...


Could we please not drag religion into this? The thread will degenerate in about 20 minutes.

Seriously?  Did you miss the 23098 times the OP typed out "people who believe in magical beings in the sky", "science students don't believe in magical beings in the sky", etc?

I didn't miss it, and chose not to rise to the bait (being agnostic-theist myself). One can't argue with himself.

[VampireSoap]

nukular power wrote...

AlphaDormante wrote...


Could we please not drag religion into this? The thread will degenerate in about 20 minutes.

Seriously?  Did you miss the 23098 times the OP typed out "people who believe in magical beings in the sky", "science students don't believe in magical beings in the sky", etc?

Alright, I see that is offensive to you and I apologize. I won't use words like those and I wish you can restrain yourself as well, deal? I really wish we can go on discussing it in a more civilized manner. I also hope that you can understand I am not telling anyone how to think.

[kotli]

Using Occam's Razor, that is the simplest option that fits the data is useally the correct one. I have to say lazy writers/coders not thinking about what they where writing/codeing wins over any other theroy. <- They also forgot that ME is Sci-Fi and has to make some kind of sense even the "space magic".

Modifié par kotli, 01 avril 2012 - 05:50 .

[VampireSoap]

nukular power wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

Based on what facts that you make the conclusion that I am an atheist and I think that the ending is better?

If you don't think the "space magic" ending is the better interpretation, why are you wasting forum space with this thread?  - is a better question

Ok, so

your major premise is: Everyone who uses forum space efficiently and rejects IT supports "space magic" ending.

Minor premise: The OP uses the forum and rejects IT

Conclusion: The OP supports "space magic" ending.

Please understand I'm not making fun of you, but do you think that this is logical? You are making the either/or fallacy.

[RyuujinZERO]

iVitriol wrote...

Where are the mods when you need them?

What, someone is disagreeing with you?

[gXs_2]

To me, anyone who can see all that odd stuff at the end and just take it at face value are not really paying attention. Or just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Indoctrination seems most likely, or maybe it's a hallucination, or a near-death experience. Whatever it was, it was clearly not reality.
I think it's a real shame that so many people have freaked out so badly over the ending, because I think it might keep developers from doing unique or unexpected endings in the future.

[TRISTAN WERBE]

slyguy200 wrote...

okay vampire, disprove the indoctrination theory here and now, or show me where you already did.

Nic Cage is a Vampire 

[Juha81FIN]

Shepard & Co has been involved with reapers and their tech so much in the past that I wouldn't be surprised at all if Shepard is fighting against indoctrination in ME 3. In ME 1 and 2 we never really experience what kind of impact it has on Shepard or how he is going through it or how our henchmen are handling it.

[Cooymans]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

OP, until you provide any logic or reasoning as to why the indoctrination theory is incorrect, or at least explaining the multitude of reasonings found here:

docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview

Then I can't take you seriously. Consider it courtesy that I give you the benefit of the doubt and not just call you a troll for telling others how "blind" they are while offering absolutely no reasoning as to why other than "the ending is the ending".

The arguments there are about as logical and unbiased as those used by 9/11 truthers. Nothing there cannot be explained by retcons, bad writting, bioware QUALITY animation and reading too much into things

e.g. 4.
At various times throughout the conversation, a Reaperish growling
sound is heard and strange wispy black tentacles appear from the sides
of the screen - a graphical effect indicating Reaper influence or
indoctrination.

That is because tim is using technology based on reaper tech to control you, of course there are going to be similarites just like my car has similarites with the first car made

7. Hackett suddenly radios Shepard and assumes she is in the Citadel.

The citadel just opened up, shepard has done more to twart the the reapers than any other person in the galaxy and was last seen charging at a way to get to the citadel, it's not a leap of faith to assume that shepard was the one to do so.

The dreams were caused by pstd which could have brought on the halluciantion of the kid (if you want to think he wasn't real)
The starchild was just bad writing, if it were an attempt at indoctrination wouldn't they use something that wasn't obviously nonsense?
The normandy crashing on a habitable world was them showing us that not everyone died to try and make a bittersweet ending, them not realising tali and garrus or the rest of the crew would starve was bad writing, same goes for joker not having his bones broken. Dead characters, teleporting squad mates and/or edi coming out after destroy is down to bugged flags

>To a rational human being, nothing about this scenario makes any sense.

Is exactly right making me wonder how the ending got greenlit and why those who wrote the ending haven't been fired for gross incompetance

[RyuujinZERO]

iVitriol wrote...

Wether you love or hate the Indoc. Theory, we should all agree on one thing: the ME3 ending was the greatest failure in the history of gaming.

Indeed

And there's pretty stiff competition out there

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 01 avril 2012 - 06:16 .

[Saodade]

MalevoIence wrote...

There is an old saying, "Keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out"

OOOooooh YEAH  babyyy!

[Corbinus]

1. People don't want to believe Bioware could screw up that badly.
2. People see game's flaws as evidence.

I still think that it is far better to have 3 independent free choices rather than
be forced to choose Red Ending as an exit to real world.

[VampireSoap]

iVitriol wrote...

RyuujinZERO wrote...

iVitriol wrote...

Where are the mods when you need them?

What, someone is disagreeing with you?

Nope, the wording "I mean, for real" made me giggle.
If OP didn't sound like a high school dropout then I may discuss, but this one's troll sensors are off the damn charts.

OK, is it not possible to make your point without insulting anyone? And your idea of silencing me is appalling...do I not have the freedom of speech in a foreign forum? I don't know about you, but in America, we really respect people's right to speak even in the situation where we want to strangle each other.