508 réponses à ce sujet

[Chrillze]

Arkitekt wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

I never said it was true

Don't mind this Chrilize fellow. He's definitely a Cleverbot alias.

You got me, how did you know?

[gXs_2]

iVitriol wrote...

gXs_2 wrote...

To me, anyone who can see all that odd stuff at the end and just take it at face value are not really paying attention. Or just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Indoctrination seems most likely, or maybe it's a hallucination, or a near-death experience. Whatever it was, it was clearly not reality.
I think it's a real shame that so many people have freaked out so badly over the ending, because I think it might keep developers from doing unique or unexpected endings in the future.

Nothing wrong with unique or unexpected, there is just no choice in the endings.
Wether you love or hate the Indoc. Theory, we should all agree on one thing: the ME3 ending was the greatest failure in the history of gaming.

No, we shouldn't all agree on that, because it isn't true. It's not well-written, but it's hardly the greatest failure in gaming history. Considering this is the endgame to a galactic war against mile-long robot squid carrying out an ancient extinction cycle, who we chose as a LI shouldn't matter. It's not that big of deal in the scope of everything else that's happening.
Now, should there have been some kind of epilogue about the Krogan or Rachni? Absolutely. And maybe we'll get that through DLC or a patch. Again, I agree the ending is poorly written, but not as terrible as people make it out to be.

[VampireSoap]

Arkitekt wrote...

Come on everybody knows that Indoc theory is just a bunch of cherry picked factoids throwned together and glued with ad hoc rationalizations, whose only sole purpose is to deny oneself of the TRUE reality of Mass Effect 3 endings: The Intoxication Theory. Wake up people, it's so obviously true that it boggles the mind how one doesn't instantly see it.

HOLD THE WINE!

Wow, this comment just made my day, Thank you! I literally rolled on the ground after this...so true. It just doesn't make sense that the official ending of an epic series, which everyone in the free world was dying to see, could be Shepard's own hallucinations. A game company just wouldn't make such a joke:o

[Chrillze]

gXs_2 wrote...

iVitriol wrote...

gXs_2 wrote...

To me, anyone who can see all that odd stuff at the end and just take it at face value are not really paying attention. Or just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Indoctrination seems most likely, or maybe it's a hallucination, or a near-death experience. Whatever it was, it was clearly not reality.
I think it's a real shame that so many people have freaked out so badly over the ending, because I think it might keep developers from doing unique or unexpected endings in the future.

Nothing wrong with unique or unexpected, there is just no choice in the endings.
Wether you love or hate the Indoc. Theory, we should all agree on one thing: the ME3 ending was the greatest failure in the history of gaming.

No, we shouldn't all agree on that, because it isn't true. It's not well-written, but it's hardly the greatest failure in gaming history. Considering this is the endgame to a galactic war against mile-long robot squid carrying out an ancient extinction cycle, who we chose as a LI shouldn't matter. It's not that big of deal in the scope of everything else that's happening.
Now, should there have been some kind of epilogue about the Krogan or Rachni? Absolutely. And maybe we'll get that through DLC or a patch. Again, I agree the ending is poorly written, but not as terrible as people make it out to be.

If the IT is true the mass effect 3 edning wil be the best ending to a game ever, and BioWare will be the coolest game company in the history of video game companies

[VampireSoap]

kalle90 wrote...

Thing is, obviously a lot was left on the cutting room board. We probably never get all the facts what was left there.

On the other hand, if not indoctrination, then what explains all the weird stuff from infinite ammo to Anderson outrunning Shepard to Shepard breathing? It is very sloppily done, either on purpose to make us guess or unintentionally they had to cut corners a lot leaving more glitches and plotholes than during the rest of game.

It is not an either/or situation. You are making the fallacy called "argument from ignorance". The lack of evidence to the contrary doesn't make the claim true.

[chester013]

VampireSoap wrote...

Wake up, people! Bad writing is just bad writing. There is no way game writers will hide the plots so sophisticated that it takes speculations in this depth to piece the story together. I kept laughing while I was watching the indoctrination theory video clip. I thought the guy was just being funny, but now so many people actually believe it. No wonder so many people right now still believe in magical beings in the sky....The pathway to truth is through reason and logic. When there is a situation presented to us, we don't make an assumption and then assume that assumption is right and make up all the details from there, we look at the data, the facts and then decide whether there is truth in this claim.

It's just my personal point of view, I'm sorry if it sounds offensive to some people. It is never my intention to provoke anyone.

Managed to entirely contradict yourself in 1 paragraph, nice job. Oh and for a science student you seem pretty sure of the facts before properly evaluating everything you were presented with, stay in school.

Modifié par chester013, 01 avril 2012 - 08:05 .

[Chrillze]

VampireSoap wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

Come on everybody knows that Indoc theory is just a bunch of cherry picked factoids throwned together and glued with ad hoc rationalizations, whose only sole purpose is to deny oneself of the TRUE reality of Mass Effect 3 endings: The Intoxication Theory. Wake up people, it's so obviously true that it boggles the mind how one doesn't instantly see it.

HOLD THE WINE!

Wow, this comment just made my day, Thank you! I literally rolled on the ground after this...so true. It just doesn't make sense that the official ending of an epic series, which everyone in the free world was dying to see, could be Shepard's own hallucinations. A game company just wouldn't make such a joke:o

It's not hallucinations, he's being indoctrinated. shepard is fighting the reapers in his mind

[JunMadine]

IT may be true. No real way to prove or disprove it for now. At the very least it is a better explanation then the current endings.

[Arkitekt]

Bollocks! They are hallucinations! Indoc theory is nonsensical, we all know that the FACTS support intoxication theory! You've all been trolled by BioWare.

[Solmanian]

Am I the only one that think it's ironic. IT believers, believe shepard was indoctrinated, but they in turn act like they were indoctrinated. They probably blame EA: "indoctrinating customers is the best path to preserve a consumer base (in reaper form). By raging against bioware&EA i'm fighting against indoctrination, and in turn save mankind!".

[Sgt Reed 24]

Chrillze wrote...

gXs_2 wrote...

iVitriol wrote...

gXs_2 wrote...

To me, anyone who can see all that odd stuff at the end and just take it at face value are not really paying attention. Or just jumping on the hate bandwagon. Indoctrination seems most likely, or maybe it's a hallucination, or a near-death experience. Whatever it was, it was clearly not reality.
I think it's a real shame that so many people have freaked out so badly over the ending, because I think it might keep developers from doing unique or unexpected endings in the future.

Nothing wrong with unique or unexpected, there is just no choice in the endings.
Wether you love or hate the Indoc. Theory, we should all agree on one thing: the ME3 ending was the greatest failure in the history of gaming.

No, we shouldn't all agree on that, because it isn't true. It's not well-written, but it's hardly the greatest failure in gaming history. Considering this is the endgame to a galactic war against mile-long robot squid carrying out an ancient extinction cycle, who we chose as a LI shouldn't matter. It's not that big of deal in the scope of everything else that's happening.
Now, should there have been some kind of epilogue about the Krogan or Rachni? Absolutely. And maybe we'll get that through DLC or a patch. Again, I agree the ending is poorly written, but not as terrible as people make it out to be.

If the IT is true the mass effect 3 edning wil be the best ending to a game ever, and BioWare will be the coolest game company in the history of video game companies

Until this happens:

Sgt Reed 24 wrote...

The only problem I would have with it would be if they charge for it. 

B/c if they really were going with something like the indoctrination theory and these weren't really the endings... they we are paying for the ending of the game, which should be part of what we already paid for. We didn't pay for half a game. It wasn't advertised that way. 

And of course that ending DLC would do well, thus encouraging other companies to start chopping off and charging for endings and IMO that would be unacceptable. 

That said, I hope the Indoctrination Theory is true b/c it would be such a badass ending to Mass Effect.  

[VampireSoap]

Solmanian wrote...

Am I the only one that think it's ironic. IT believers, believe shepard was indoctrinated, but they in turn act like they were indoctrinated. They probably blame EA: "indoctrinating customers is the best path to preserve a consumer base (in reaper form). By raging against bioware&EA i'm fighting against indoctrination, and in turn save mankind!".

Believe me, you are not alone...

[Volus Warlord]

Melrache wrote...

Speculation =/= proof.

SPECULATE! YAY!

[KyuzoS7]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Speculation =/= proof.

SPECULATE! YAY!

illusion seems easier to follow

[Bhatair]

I think it's cool, but my main problem with it is that it implies Bioware released the game without a proper ending and the only reason I can think of that they would ship the final chapter of a trilogy without a real ending (but a snazzy cliffhanger that you have to piece together yourself) is to milk the fans for money through DLC. There is literally no other reason to hold it back.
Just look at the plot twist for Bioshock. Pretty much the same principal but they didn't hold back the rest of the game only to release it later on.

Like I said, it would have been cool, but it's too late now. The ending was just bad.

[Nimrodell]

The only reason why IT makes me angry as a forum user 'cause it keeps feeding mr Casey Hudson's post-release comments on speculations and his explanation why the ending was made like that. I don't mind people believing whatever they want, but also I do mind aggressive attitude of some IT posters - no matter how elaborate explanation is provided, they'll still keep being very aggressive and firm in belief that IT is the thing that exactly what happened. After seeing 'oily shadows proof' and fervent holding to it, even though me and some others explained the synesthesia as figure of speech (so widely used by impressionists) and phenomenon as well the fact that the queen is using different linguistic code to communicate (for instance - sour song in her children enslavement reaper enslavement), I just didn't even find more will to explain story and it's mechanics. Endings were just rushed thing, nothing more, but what good does it do - no matter what kind of argument one brings here, if it's against IT, it'll get ignored or attacked.

As I said, I really don't mind people wishing that IT is actually what happened, if people want such escape path... well, so be it. But also, I do mind giving credit to mr Hudson for endings, 'cause that wasn't the case. I do give huge credit to him and his team for ME1, ME2 and 95% of ME3, I do admire them, respect them for glorious gaming vision, but also, I refuse to acknowledge the same thing for endings, 'cause it wasn't the case. Even with current ending being art as they claim, it is bad art, something that wouldn't pass the judgment of time and future critics... and with IT 'devious' mechanic, I consider those endings not just bad art but also bad execution of ME3 in its entirety - because the game wasn't finished then, and I'm not going to try even to explain the other consequences for the story itself that wasn't meant to lead into Shepard's indoctrination. I would write point by point explanation all on this, but, sincerely, what's the use of it, what would be the purpose? People see what they want to see and currently, they want IT.

[Rasofe]

Cognitive Dissonance. There was a study on this once, not very quantitative, mostly qualitative. These psychology researchers decided to infiltrate (One of them was of course Mel, Mrs. Infiltrator Bosom) a doomsday cult that expected salvation brought on them by aliens (they were indoctrinated). However, at the expected date of arrival, the aliens must've hit a wrong turn somewhere so the doomsday cult were left dissapointed without rescue. The conclusion was that they had been TOO FAITHFUL and so the aliens did not rescue them. (half of this is true story). The researchers created the theory of cognitive dissonance.

When faced with absurdity, man escapes by creating more absurdity.

@Volus warlord was better when it was a link. Still epic though.

Modifié par Rasofe, 01 avril 2012 - 08:25 .

[Chrillze]

Solmanian wrote...

Am I the only one that think it's ironic. IT believers, believe shepard was indoctrinated, but they in turn act like they were indoctrinated. They probably blame EA: "indoctrinating customers is the best path to preserve a consumer base (in reaper form). By raging against bioware&EA i'm fighting against indoctrination, and in turn save mankind!".

You are the one being indoctrinated because you have been fooled and rage over the ending, IT believers see the truth, the rEApers can be controlled! don't let blind idealism fool you

[Chrillze]

VampireSoap wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Am I the only one that think it's ironic. IT believers, believe shepard was indoctrinated, but they in turn act like they were indoctrinated. They probably blame EA: "indoctrinating customers is the best path to preserve a consumer base (in reaper form). By raging against bioware&EA i'm fighting against indoctrination, and in turn save mankind!".

Believe me, you are not alone...

You are starting to cost me more than time and money, the IT would secure our dominance over the rEApers and beyond

[kalle90]

VampireSoap wrote...
The lack of evidence to the contrary doesn't make the claim true.

Yet the lack of evidence to the default makes it true?

What evidence is there that implies the current ending is "real"? Bioware hasn't stated this is the ending, their info of game not having A,B,C endings contradicts what we can see, they have stated they are doing something about the ending, many developers nowadays are pulling ending DLC stunts.

We have some "proof" for and against (not really against from what I've seen, just that "this could happen even if it isn't indoctrination" and "Bioware wouldn't release a game without ending") indoc theory. There are conflicted results about many tests (cell phones causing cancer, human role in global warming). Usually people do more tests, but how can we do more tests based on the game? I would call this inconclusive.

[Sgt Reed 24]

Nimrodell wrote...
they want IT.

......

couldn't resist! lol

Modifié par Sgt Reed 24, 01 avril 2012 - 08:38 .

[Rasofe]

Chrillze wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Am I the only one that think it's ironic. IT believers, believe shepard was indoctrinated, but they in turn act like they were indoctrinated. They probably blame EA: "indoctrinating customers is the best path to preserve a consumer base (in reaper form). By raging against bioware&EA i'm fighting against indoctrination, and in turn save mankind!".

Believe me, you are not alone...

You are starting to cost me more than time and money, the IT would secure our dominance over the rEApers and beyond

Your vision is pathetically limited.

[Chrillze]

Rasofe wrote...

Chrillze wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Am I the only one that think it's ironic. IT believers, believe shepard was indoctrinated, but they in turn act like they were indoctrinated. They probably blame EA: "indoctrinating customers is the best path to preserve a consumer base (in reaper form). By raging against bioware&EA i'm fighting against indoctrination, and in turn save mankind!".

Believe me, you are not alone...

You are starting to cost me more than time and money, the IT would secure our dominance over the rEApers and beyond

Your vision is pathetically limited.

Don't let blind idealism fool you

[VampireSoap]

kalle90 wrote...

VampireSoap wrote...
The lack of evidence to the contrary doesn't make the claim true.

Yet the lack of evidence to the default makes it true?

What evidence is there that implies the current ending is "real"? Bioware hasn't stated this is the ending, their info of game not having A,B,C endings contradicts what we can see, they have stated they are doing something about the ending, many developers nowadays are pulling ending DLC stunts.

We have some "proof" for and against (not really against from what I've seen, just that "this could happen even if it isn't indoctrination" and "Bioware wouldn't release a game without ending") indoc theory. There are conflicted results about many tests (cell phones causing cancer, human role in global warming). Usually people do more tests, but how can we do more tests based on the game? I would call this inconclusive.

Hold on...The lack of evidence to the default? You mean the ending in the game ISN'T the REAL ending? And that Bioware hasn't confirmed that ending by puting that ending AT THE VERY END OF THE GAME? I don't get it...

Besides, the IT theorists are the ones who are making the claim. The burden of proof is on them, it's absurd to ask someone else to proof them wrong before they first prove them right. See Russell's teapot.

[bobito64]

VampireSoap wrote...

I'm sorry if I offended you in some way. I apologize. I never meant that the people who belive are blind. I was just saying that people should really see the reality as it is. As for reasoning, I believe I have already stated that in the beginning. To reiterate, Game writers don't hide the plots so sophisticated that
it takes speculations in this depth to piece the story together. I mean, if you acknowledge that bad writing is the cause of the bad ending, you wouldn't need the indoctrination theory, right? And all I'm saying is just that people should see that the bad writing answer makes much more sense. Besides, it's really an opinion, forgive me if I don't have the time to look at the long list of "proofs" of yours. I'm not going to counter your arguments one by one because it is not my intention. Please believe that I simple want to share my opinions with others with no intention of insulting anyone.

The idea that is simply bad writing itself is implausible for a number of reasons.

1. The best writing team in the games industry doesn't suddenly become so bad that they produce a piece of nonsensical rubbish. An individual writer might foul up like that but an excellent team would be less likely to.

2. The design team would also have to have been producing nonsense (the eyes, the breath, the bullet would in Shepard's side among other things).

3. So too would the gameplay team. In the last combat in the game you take down three husks, each with a single bullet, and a marauder with three bullets. The husks die with one shot even if you shoot themm in the leg or arm. When was the last fight in a game ever so preposterously easy?