508 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanPWNS]

There's a higher chance of Intoxication theory coming true, IMO.

[Rasofe]

I will respond to bobito64's points in turn as accurately as I can.

First. 1. The best writing team in the games industry doesn't suddenly become bad... and individual writer might foul up like that but an excellent team would be less likely to.

There are two levels of rebuttal for this. First there is Groupthink. It's actually quite the reverse - a single author or writer can stay consistent indefinately but a team is likely to lapse.
Secondlity it is precisely when artists are burdened with an ending that must - as they believe - outdo the rest in a complete logical, easthetical and moral conclusion that they are the most likely to fail. Convergence is extremely difficult, and in their search for perfection they selected an ending concept that cannot be reconciled with the rest of the game.

2. Quite possibly. However, the design team is in no way independent of the writers.

3. The game cannot be completed otherwise. At this point, the gameplay is IRRELEVANT. Marauder Shields is the last opponent faced, and the last real fight is before the Reaper Destroyer is Destroyered. Hence this point is not valid.

[Arkitekt]

bobito64 wrote...

The idea that is simply bad writing itself is implausible for a number of reasons.

1. The best writing team in the games industry doesn't suddenly become so bad that they produce a piece of nonsensical rubbish. An individual writer might foul up like that but an excellent team would be less likely to.

I wholeheartedly agree! This is why the booze is such an important element! For instance, if you inebriate yourself enough, the endings start to make a lot of sense. COINCIDENCE? Of course not! Intoxication theory is true!

2. The design team would also have to have been producing nonsense (the eyes, the breath, the bullet would in Shepard's side among other things).

There is no nonsense whatsoever in designing a realistic take on how tough the life of an alcoholic can be. Hallucinations abound. Curiously, the wound is placed symbolically at the same spot of the liver, which is an undeniable sign of Shepard having had too much of the stuff that goes in the stuff... COINCIDENCE?

3. So too would the gameplay team. In the last combat in the game you take down three husks, each with a single bullet, and a marauder with three bullets. The husks die with one shot even if you shoot themm in the leg or arm. When was the last fight in a game ever so preposterously easy?

It was easy because they were INTOXICATED! It all fits! Only deniers and trolls fail to recognize what even a drunk man can see with his backside.

[daecath]

There's virtually no chance that IT is real. I think we got exactly what it looks like - a badly written, rushed ending that left too many plot holes.

However, I think that the idea of IT is brilliant, and I hope they incorporate it into a new ending that makes sense.

[VampireSoap]

bobito64 wrote...

The idea that is simply bad writing itself is implausible for a number of reasons.

1. The best writing team in the games industry doesn't suddenly become so bad that they produce a piece of nonsensical rubbish. An individual writer might foul up like that but an excellent team would be less likely to.

2. The design team would also have to have been producing nonsense (the eyes, the breath, the bullet would in Shepard's side among other things).

3. So too would the gameplay team. In the last combat in the game you take down three husks, each with a single bullet, and a marauder with three bullets. The husks die with one shot even if you shoot themm in the leg or arm. When was the last fight in a game ever so preposterously easy?

1. Why not? Why can't the best writing team suddenly become bad? Things change. It doesn't violate the laws of nature. Besides, do you think the IT is good writing?

2. Why not? The game is rushed. Under the stress of meeting the deadline, the best team can make serious mistakes. DAII is a very nice example.

3. Why would infinite bullets and one shot one kill prove the IT? Why would the strange trees and all that prove IT? What's the basis of making that logical leap?

By the way, Marauder Shields can actually kill Shepard.......

[ThomasakaDes_]

This thread should be moved to the Story/campaign section to that we don`t have to worry about spoiling.

[kalle90]

VampireSoap wrote...
You mean the ending in the game ISN'T the REAL ending? And that Bioware hasn't confirmed that ending by puting that ending AT THE VERY END OF THE GAME? I don't get it...

That's exactly the point.
-Bioware's own info (16 endings bla bla) contradicts what we have
-Look at Asura's Wrath or Final Fantasy XIII-2 for an "unreal" ending
-Who did the ending brain fart? (Bushes that weren't there, Anderson... If it's real it's like they slapped a part of the old Alpha build into the game)
-Now they are doing something for the ending (might be just post-credit text update but no proof whatsoever)

Thing is this is a video game and Bioware holds all the cards. It's not like any of us can suddenly start a scientific experiment to uncover every bit of info. Suffice to say there are things that make some people doubt the official truth (funny thing that because before Wikileaks and Anonymous there was a lot more unprovable stuff)

Of course then there is hearsay (I haven't even seen the original leaked script) claiming that originally Bioware planned for indoctrination segment but then scrapped it because it was too difficult for gameplay or something. Maybe they left those small traces of it?

No offence, but for a science guy you don't seem to have much vision, or mad creativity whichever you want to call it.

[Arkitekt]

kalle, I think you need to grow up a little and get some sense carved in you head. Don't worry, it will come along as you age appropriately.

[Rasofe]

I don't disagree with Soaps but I find the use of rhetorical questions for rebuttal a bit substandard.

Bottom line is the team had probably started trailing of on a cloud castle, the ending had to be finished with as much atmosphere as possible, the gameplay was simplified immediately and phased out to ensure you forget about combat (a boss-fight with Marauder Shields is NOT how I would've done it, but who am I anyway...).

[Rasofe]

Arkitekt wrote...

kalle, I think you need to grow up a little and get some sense carved in you head. Don't worry, it will come along as you age appropriately.

That was uncalled for.

[VampireSoap]

ThomasakaDes_ wrote...

This thread should be moved to the Story/campaign section to that we don`t have to worry about spoiling.

Wow, please don't do that. A lot of people won't be able to participate in the discussion then.

[Icinix]

There are two types of people in this world.

Those who prefer faint hope.
Those who prefer bitter certainty.

Indoctrination theorists are looking for faint hope.
People who believe it was bad writing are looking for bitter certainty.

VampireSoap wrote...
OMG! How come so many people actually believe in the Indoctrination Theory? I mean...

No wonder so many people right now still believe in magical beings in the sky....The pathway to truth is through reason and logic.

It's just my personal point of view, I'm sorry if it sounds offensive to some people. It is never my intention to provoke anyone.

You sure its not your intent?

^.-

[kalle90]

Arkitekt wrote...
It was easy because they were INTOXICATED! It all fits! Only deniers and trolls fail to recognize what even a drunk man can see with his backside.

Problem is that your intoxication theory doesn't fit the game's internal logic at all. But hey atleast you're the father of the 3rd most popular theory.

[Arkitekt]

Rasofe wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

kalle, I think you need to grow up a little and get some sense carved in you head. Don't worry, it will come along as you age appropriately.

That was uncalled for.

Perhaps, but it's true. The idea that hiding the "TRU" ending from everyone who bought the game and then selling it in DLC is the most abhorrent idea I've seen in these forums. To have people believing in it, despite all the evidence and reason to the contrary, and even then denigrating all others as "lacking vision" kinda pisses me off.

[redBadger14]

[quote]Chrillze wrote...

I never said it was true[/quote]
Really? May I present you with....

[quote]Chrillze wrote...

[quote]VampireSoap wrote...

[quote]Raycer X wrote...

Well, my friend beat ME3 last night and called me today. He told me he literally hasn't been that depressed since his dog died when he was 8. Then he heard about this theory and all of his depression went away. Just saying, you can get hope from anything.[/quote]

A very good example, thank you! It is exactly what I've been trying to say. All the Indoctrination Theory does is really just give hope to desperate people. It preys on people who are in a vulnerable stage.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

[/quote] It doesn't give hope, it explains the ending. the IT is true stop denying it seriously, you just look ignorant.
[/quote] 

and

[quote]Chrillze wrote...

[quote]Volus Warlord wrote...

[quote]redBadger14 wrote...

The Indoctrination Theory is not true, hence why it is a theory.

[/quote]

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

[/quote]the IT is true
[/quote] 

and 

[quote]Chrillze wrote...

[quote]redBadger14 wrote...

[quote]Chrillze wrote...

[quote]redBadger14 wrote...

[quote]Chrillze wrote...

[quote]Volus Warlord wrote...

[quote]redBadger14 wrote...

The Indoctrination Theory is not true, hence why it is a theory.

[/quote]

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

[/quote]the IT is true
[/quote]
Proof?

Post the link please.

[/quote]
 here's your proof[/quote]
That is not an official statement from BioWare, simply a video pointing out where the points of the theory may hold water.

Try a new link with an official statement please. Otherwise, the theory is not concretely "true."

[/quote] It's true, stop kidding around please
[/quote] 

Bad liar is bad liar.

[Bluko]

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

THAT WHICH YOU KNOW AS ENDINGS ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DLC. EVERY FAN MUST PAY $9.99 MONTHLY TO BRING ORDER TO THE CHAOS OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. THE PAYMENT CYCLE MUST CONTINUE! RUDIMENTARY CONSUMERS RANT ABOUT MY ENDINGS FUMBLING IN IGNORANCE, INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING OUR ARTISTIC INTEGRITY! BIOWARE DID NOT BOTCH THE ENDING. BIOWARE DID NOT DECEIVE THE FANBASE. DLC IS THE LEGACY OF MY KIND. BEFORE FOR US YOUR OBJECTIONS ARE AS EMPTY AS YOUR WALLETS.

NOW I AM OFF TO MAKE OTHER GAMES TO WHICH YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND.

RELEASING CONTROL

[Arkitekt]

kalle90 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
It was easy because they were INTOXICATED! It all fits! Only deniers and trolls fail to recognize what even a drunk man can see with his backside.

Problem is that your intoxication theory doesn't fit the game's internal logic at all. But hey atleast you're the father of the 3rd most popular theory.

I'm not its father. Intoxication theory is REAL. This link will show you the TRUTH:

http://social.biowar...10676720-1.html 

Open yourself to the truth!

[OdanUrr]

Arkitekt wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
It was easy because they were INTOXICATED! It all fits! Only deniers and trolls fail to recognize what even a drunk man can see with his backside.

Problem is that your intoxication theory doesn't fit the game's internal logic at all. But hey atleast you're the father of the 3rd most popular theory.

I'm not its father. Intoxication theory is REAL. This link will show you the TRUTH:

http://social.biowar...10676720-1.html 

Open yourself to the truth!

Having a couple of drinks before reading the thread helps!

[kalle90]

Bluko wrote...

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

THAT WHICH YOU KNOW AS ENDINGS ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DLC. EVERY FAN MUST PAY $9.99 MONTHLY TO BRING ORDER TO THE CHAOS OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. THE PAYMENT CYCLE MUST CONTINUE! RUDIMENTARY CONSUMERS RANT ABOUT MY ENDINGS FUMBLING IN IGNORANCE, INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING OUR ARTISTIC INTEGRITY! BIOWARE DID NOT BOTCH THE ENDING. BIOWARE DID NOT DECEIVE THE FANBASE. DLC IS THE LEGACY OF MY KIND. BEFORE FOR US YOUR OBJECTIONS ARE AS EMPTY AS YOUR WALLETS.

NOW I AM OFF TO MAKE OTHER GAMES TO WHICH YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND.

RELEASING CONTROL

Woah! Moar proof

[VampireSoap]

Bluko wrote...

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

THAT WHICH YOU KNOW AS ENDINGS ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DLC. EVERY FAN MUST PAY $9.99 MONTHLY TO BRING ORDER TO THE CHAOS OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK. THE PAYMENT CYCLE MUST CONTINUE! RUDIMENTARY CONSUMERS RANT ABOUT MY ENDINGS FUMBLING IN IGNORANCE, INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING OUR ARTISTIC INTEGRITY! BIOWARE DID NOT BOTCH THE ENDING. BIOWARE DID NOT DECEIVE THE FANBASE. DLC IS THE LEGACY OF MY KIND. BEFORE FOR US YOUR OBJECTIONS ARE AS EMPTY AS YOUR WALLETS.

NOW I AM OFF TO MAKE OTHER GAMES TO WHICH YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND.

RELEASING CONTROL

[Paralyzed and bitterly fighting indoctrination]

[Arkitekt]

"Your objections are as empty as your wallets" is a good one. One internetz for you good sir!

[CyberMiguel]

VampireSoap wrote...

Wake up, people! Bad writing is just bad writing. There is no way game writers will hide the plots so sophisticated that it takes speculations in this depth to piece the story together. I kept laughing while I was watching the indoctrination theory video clip. I thought the guy was just being funny, but now so many people actually believe it. No wonder so many people right now still believe in magical beings in the sky....The pathway to truth is through reason and logic. When there is a situation presented to us, we don't make an assumption and then assume that assumption is right and make up all the details from there, we look at the data, the facts and then decide whether there is truth in this claim.

It's just my personal point of view, I'm sorry if it sounds offensive to some people. It is never my intention to provoke anyone.

I believe in the Indoc Theory mainly because it's a way for fans to say to Bioware "look, here's a way to get out fast and easy of the embarassment the actual ending is". Anything else would be giving Bioware too much credit .

Modifié par CyberMiguel, 01 avril 2012 - 09:35 .

[Nimrodell]

Just to jump in - before ME3 was released, the image of rachni queen was leaked. People seeing that image here on BSN started threads speculating that she's indoctrinated and that she surely most is indoctrinated because she looks different now with that strange blue glow from the ME1 version. Oh, the fight kept on and on between paragons and renegades here - renegades were claiming that paragons are pretty much screwed for being stupid and not killing her. Of course, there were those who claimed it's just designers' new solution since graphics changed a bit in ME3 but those were easily spurned and ignored by majority already comparing screenies from ME1 and ME3... and how that one turned out? For paragons, it was actually the Noverian queen and for those who played renegade who wanted redemption - she was indoctrinated reaper construct... so she is and she isn't a reaper in the same time. So much about vision or lack of it on these boards. Following the same case, we can see that people still keep doing that here... finding 'evidence' in actual design recycling or similarities... I mean, ME3 queen indeed has that strange glow in her, mouth? beak? opening on her head which she uses to eat? Still, for paragons, she's actually the original one, even though majority here thought she isn't 'cause of that glow, or is she? Maybe even that glow is proof that Shepard is actually deceived by indoctrination not seeing things for what they are... I mean, she has glow after all, just like husks, cannibals especially.

[Rasofe]

After reading the Intoxication Theory I have firmly concluded that it is completely and utter genius.
That said, there's the possibility that Shepard really died in Mass Effect 2 when the Normandy exploded and all of the continuing events are just a very, VERY slow death by aphyxation.

[kalle90]

Arkitekt wrote...

kalle90 wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...
It was easy because they were INTOXICATED! It all fits! Only deniers and trolls fail to recognize what even a drunk man can see with his backside.

Problem is that your intoxication theory doesn't fit the game's internal logic at all. But hey atleast you're the father of the 3rd most popular theory.

I'm not its father. Intoxication theory is REAL. This link will show you the TRUTH:

http://social.biowar...10676720-1.html 

Open yourself to the truth!

I would believe that every developer fell for intoxication