457 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

L00p wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

L00p wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

-snip-

Owned.
Thank you, from the bottom of my dark soul.

Care to explain where I was owned thanks?

Frankly, I don't care for you much at all, nor does anybody else. We're all leaving.
You killed the thread. Grats.

The thread is fine, it is not killed. If you stopped talking about me and talked about the topic it could get back on track quite easily.

[Dragoonlordz]

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
EA still will support them 

Like they supported Bullfrog and Westwood... 

They just hired a new team to create titles for them under the Bioware banner for C&C, I somehow do not see Bioware losing support in the near future.

[Accall]

L00p wrote...
Frankly, I don't care for you much at all, nor does anybody else. We're all leaving.
You killed the thread. Grats.

Whoa there. No need to get up close and personal.

[Dragoonlordz]

slyguy200 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Krogangreetings wrote...

wasn't this about amazon once?

Dragonthingie seems to have wanted to turn the thread into being about him/her, so at least half the thread is about that now

Thats not accurate, I made one comment and everyone decided to grab their pitchforks and torches and have a pop at me. It is not possible to turn something into about you without others attacking you constantly for having a different opinion. The fault lays with those who jumped on the bandwagon not the first post since the first post was not actually insulting or even invalid.

It is accurate you really wanted it, You were not attacked, multiple disagreed with you at once and said so. You were attacked when you stated that you were just attacked and how that always happens.
Still, this proves just how self-righteous you are, believing your own innocence and saying all others involved are the crazy people/ attackers for speaking against you just proves what I have been saying.

You do not know what it is I do or do not want but then again your replies have been full of assumptions too so no surprise there. Did you even read my reply in question? Do you remember it talking specifically about people putting words in my mouth and shall I highlight in your reply what you just did?

I read the whole thing. Idc what you do or want, but what i have seen of you has only been bad. the word in mouth thing was mostly harmless. As for the extra stuff, i thought of a few other comments of yours and factored them in.

There was no humour or jest in your statement so you cannot use the harmless excuse. In the end it simply comes down to you disagree with my opinion and thought you could belittle my stance, others here who have disagreed with me in the past about other issues popped in and first post in the thread they have made, was leaving insults when they were not even part of the discussion from the offset of which this validates what I said. Your putting words in my mouth instead of what I actually said also points to this. When stated I deserved to be attacked put forth your stance very clear, you lost all respect and nothing you said after could be construed as harmless so just don't go there and try to paint that pictute of innocence.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 avril 2012 - 11:27 .

[Gatt9]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
A prime example is when I mentioned stock levels. You went on and ranted about it along with others directed at me for few pages instead. Don't whine about being on topic when you ranted at me not the topic for many pages.

Awesome, Amazon sold 4 copies at a discount in about an hour. At that rate, they'll sell 2900 in a month.

As we had this discussion in another thread where I pointed at data we have access to regarding sales showing very high sales, you digressed and tried to change it to about how much cost to develop. I have no intention of rehashing this with you.

I remember that thread,  it was the one where you were using VGChartz numbers,  despite having been told repeatedly how they're so invalid,  that even most Industry sites have outright called them on making numbers up.

But that isn't the answer you wanted,  you wanted to hear ME3 is the best selling game ever.

So I'm guessing you opted to ignore the fact that your source is regarded as invalid by pretty much everyone.

I know what branching means thanks, I have discussed it at great lengths on many forums as both a concept and affect on content. Bioware will not fold, they do not cave into bullying tactics. That won't change now. Any feedback they recieve they will listen to which has always been the case then 'they' will resolve it as they always have in a manner they wish to do so

Here's yet another thing you need to start doing research on.  You need to go read EA's quarterlies,  they're losing significant amounts of money.  You should probably also go research how well they're games are selling in general.  Reports are that pretty much everything in the last year has underperformed except BF3 and NFL.

Once you're done with that.  You might want to spend some time contemplating why EA paid 600 million for a company that generally sells 2-3 million per release.  I'll give you a hint "Star Wars",  the MMORPG that looks likely to fail in 6 months.

So what do you really think is going to happen when the reason they bought Bioware fails,  their titles demonstrated lackluster sales,  their IP's are no longer able to sell any signficant numbers,  and their reputation is worthless?

I'll give you another hint.  Westwood.  Bullfrog.  Origins.

I used VGC because it is the only source we have that tracks each weeks sales and lists them for us to see even though I said as estimates and not 100% reliable. With regard to ToR there was an article I read which stated that it covered it's development cost in the first months worth of retail sales and subscriptions. I do not see that as a bad thing and few more months they will be on profits all the way. You have no evidence that Biowares ME3 sales are bad, the only evidence we have for sales numbers is VGC and while not perfect it is all you have to use. ToR I just explained is not doing badly, while not Blizzard quantitiy of subscribers it was stated by Blizzard they are losing players to ToR constantly and they blame ToR for their drop in numbers on top of half the development cost being already covered in the first month and the fact EA said anything above 500k subscribers is profitable, anything above a million is great and at the 1.7million last recorded they are extremely happy and truly huge profits.

They didn't make 100 million on sales to 2 million people,  300,000 of which dropped before the first month ended.  Especially since some significant percentage of sales go to Lucas Arts,  not EA.  They need at least 8 months with their current numbers to recoup just their development costs,  if not more,  depending on how big a chunk LA gets.

That's not even adding into the math the cost of buying Bioware in the first place.  With just 1.7 million subscribers,  they need several years. 

You should also note,  EA left out how long they needed 500k to be profitable.  EA's doing the math over the expected life of the game,  likely 10 years.  Not 1 month. 

700 million (Cost of Bioware,  plus cost of TOR)

$15 per copy revenue * 2 million * 0.6 (Since LA gets at least a third of the revenue)  = 18 million

Which means they need 682 million more to go,  or 82 million just to recover TOR.

$15/month * 1.7 million * 0.6 = 15.3 million

Then

15.3 million - the cost of the CSR's,  the servers,  electricity,  off-site backups,  etc.

So around 14 million a month very likely,  possibly alot less,  LA's percentage could easily be between 50 and 75 percent.  They need to keep this number for 8 months to break even,  and 4 years to cover the costs of buying Bioware.

I doubt they have 6 months,  especially since the numbers they released showed no growth after the first month,  which is generally a death knell for a MMORPG.

[Alex_SM]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
EA still will support them 

Like they supported Bullfrog and Westwood... 

They just hired a new team to create titles for them under the Bioware banner for C&C, I somehow do not see Bioware losing support in the near future.

C&C... a Westwood saga. 

I think you don't know the story of how Westwood was closed. It's an interesting story. 

EA decided to enlarge westood to make them able to develop more games under that label. So they merged another studio (Dreamworks Interactive, also aquired by EA) with them. More or less the same as the new studio under the Bioware label. Then one year later decided to close Westwood, kept the studios under the label EA and continue all the IPs without Westwood (and without the people from Westwood).

EA doesn't care about Bioware. As long as is a respectable label and gives them lots of money everything will be fine. But if things don't go nice they would close it really fast. Is the way they usually work. 

[Dragoonlordz]

Gatt9 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
A prime example is when I mentioned stock levels. You went on and ranted about it along with others directed at me for few pages instead. Don't whine about being on topic when you ranted at me not the topic for many pages.

Awesome, Amazon sold 4 copies at a discount in about an hour. At that rate, they'll sell 2900 in a month.

As we had this discussion in another thread where I pointed at data we have access to regarding sales showing very high sales, you digressed and tried to change it to about how much cost to develop. I have no intention of rehashing this with you.

I remember that thread,  it was the one where you were using VGChartz numbers,  despite having been told repeatedly how they're so invalid,  that even most Industry sites have outright called them on making numbers up.

But that isn't the answer you wanted,  you wanted to hear ME3 is the best selling game ever.

So I'm guessing you opted to ignore the fact that your source is regarded as invalid by pretty much everyone.

I know what branching means thanks, I have discussed it at great lengths on many forums as both a concept and affect on content. Bioware will not fold, they do not cave into bullying tactics. That won't change now. Any feedback they recieve they will listen to which has always been the case then 'they' will resolve it as they always have in a manner they wish to do so

Here's yet another thing you need to start doing research on.  You need to go read EA's quarterlies,  they're losing significant amounts of money.  You should probably also go research how well they're games are selling in general.  Reports are that pretty much everything in the last year has underperformed except BF3 and NFL.

Once you're done with that.  You might want to spend some time contemplating why EA paid 600 million for a company that generally sells 2-3 million per release.  I'll give you a hint "Star Wars",  the MMORPG that looks likely to fail in 6 months.

So what do you really think is going to happen when the reason they bought Bioware fails,  their titles demonstrated lackluster sales,  their IP's are no longer able to sell any signficant numbers,  and their reputation is worthless?

I'll give you another hint.  Westwood.  Bullfrog.  Origins.

I used VGC because it is the only source we have that tracks each weeks sales and lists them for us to see even though I said as estimates and not 100% reliable. With regard to ToR there was an article I read which stated that it covered it's development cost in the first months worth of retail sales and subscriptions. I do not see that as a bad thing and few more months they will be on profits all the way. You have no evidence that Biowares ME3 sales are bad, the only evidence we have for sales numbers is VGC and while not perfect it is all you have to use. ToR I just explained is not doing badly, while not Blizzard quantitiy of subscribers it was stated by Blizzard they are losing players to ToR constantly and they blame ToR for their drop in numbers on top of half the development cost being already covered in the first month and the fact EA said anything above 500k subscribers is profitable, anything above a million is great and at the 1.7million last recorded they are extremely happy and truly huge profits.

They didn't make 100 million on sales to 2 million people,  300,000 of which dropped before the first month ended.  Especially since some significant percentage of sales go to Lucas Arts,  not EA.  They need at least 8 months with their current numbers to recoup just their development costs,  if not more,  depending on how big a chunk LA gets.

That's not even adding into the math the cost of buying Bioware in the first place.  With just 1.7 million subscribers,  they need several years. 

You should also note,  EA left out how long they needed 500k to be profitable.  EA's doing the math over the expected life of the game,  likely 10 years.  Not 1 month. 

700 million (Cost of Bioware,  plus cost of TOR)

$15 per copy revenue * 2 million * 0.6 (Since LA gets at least a third of the revenue)  = 18 million

Which means they need 682 million more to go,  or 82 million just to recover TOR.

$15/month * 1.7 million * 0.6 = 15.3 million

Then

15.3 million - the cost of the CSR's,  the servers,  electricity,  off-site backups,  etc.

So around 14 million a month very likely,  possibly alot less,  LA's percentage could easily be between 50 and 75 percent.  They need to keep this number for 8 months to break even,  and 4 years to cover the costs of buying Bioware.

I doubt they have 6 months,  especially since the numbers they released showed no growth after the first month,  which is generally a death knell for a MMORPG.

Adding in the cost of Bioware is not valid, EA have taken profit from their acquisition of Bioware for many years across many titles already, it is not dependant on ToR. Your figures simply do not add up in this case.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 avril 2012 - 11:31 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Dragoonlord. STOP. just. STOP.

That goes for everyone else too, Loop, Slyguy etc.

Reading this thread is almost impossible because of your back and forth. Regardless of who was "right" or 'wrong' to begin with, your constant bickering back and forth is just ridiculous. Reading through the last few pages it's like listening to little children argue over who poked who first, almost 3 out of 4 posts is solely you guys fighting.

Enough is enough. Don't say anything else. Just move on and talk about the topic if you want. We are ALL sick of your insults, regardless of who we all obviously see as the troll in this situation.

[Gatt9]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
EA still will support them 

Like they supported Bullfrog and Westwood... 

They just hired a new team to create titles for them under the Bioware banner for C&C, I somehow do not see Bioware losing support in the near future.

Bioware is a brand name now.  They put it on everything that's not EA-Sports.  If the Brand is tarnished,  EA will not hesitate a moment to roll it up.  You act as though the word Bioware is somehow of incredible value,  it's a marketing tool to add a level of obfusication to cover the tarnished EA brand that faltered through the 2000's.  EA knows their name is associated with poor quality titles,  EA wanted a level of indirection,  "Bioware" was convienent.

They can roll the name up tomorrow,  fold the real Bioware studios that now may no longer be marketable,  and rebrand the others as EA-(insert city),  without a problem.

[Dragoonlordz]

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
EA still will support them 

Like they supported Bullfrog and Westwood... 

They just hired a new team to create titles for them under the Bioware banner for C&C, I somehow do not see Bioware losing support in the near future.

C&C... a Westwood saga. 

I think you don't know the story of how Westwood was closed. It's an interesting story. 

EA decided to enlarge westood to make them able to develop more games under that label. So they merged another studio (Dreamworks Interactive, also aquired by EA) with them. More or less the same as the new studio under the Bioware label. Then one year later decided to close Westwood, kept the studios under the label EA and continue all the IPs without Westwood (and without the people from Westwood).

EA doesn't care about Bioware. As long as is a respectable label and gives them lots of money everything will be fine. But if things don't go nice they would close it really fast. Is the way they usually work. 

Bioware has gained positions very high up in the food chain of EA, such decisions are not quite so easy to pull off in this day and age with that much leverage from within EA towards Bioware.

Ray Muzyka became a General Manager and Vice President at EA in addition to his General Manager/CEO role at BioWare, and subsequently became a Senior Vice President and Group General Manager at EA. Dr. Gregory P. Zeschuk is a VP at EA and General Manager at BioWare Austin.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 avril 2012 - 11:37 .

[Alex_SM]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bioware has gained positions very high up in the food chain of EA, such decisions are not quite so easy to pull off in this day and age with that much leverage from within EA towards Bioware.

Ray Muzyka became a General Manager and Vice President at EA in addition to his General Manager/CEO role at BioWare, and subsequently became a Senior Vice President and Group General Manager at EA. Dr. Gregory P. Zeschuk is a VP at EA and General Manager at BioWare Austin.

I know that, and doesn't change anything. 

[Dragoonlordz]

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bioware has gained positions very high up in the food chain of EA, such decisions are not quite so easy to pull off in this day and age with that much leverage from within EA towards Bioware.

Ray Muzyka became a General Manager and Vice President at EA in addition to his General Manager/CEO role at BioWare, and subsequently became a Senior Vice President and Group General Manager at EA. Dr. Gregory P. Zeschuk is a VP at EA and General Manager at BioWare Austin.

I know that, and doesn't change anything. 

Of course it changes things, in order for it to not do so you would have to make the assumption that the founders of Bioware would turn their backs on the studio. They are in such a position that it simply is not as easy to pull off a westwood closure or bullfrog compared to in the past.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 avril 2012 - 11:48 .

[Dragoonlordz]

slyguy200 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

...

There was no humour or jest in your statement so you cannot use the harmless excuse. In the end it simply comes down to you disagree with my opinion and thought you could belittle my stance, others here who have disagreed with me in the past about other issues popped in and first post in the thread they have made, was leaving insults when they were not even part of the discussion from the offset of which this validates what I said. Your putting words in my mouth instead of what I actually said also points to this. When stated I deserved to be attacked put forth your stance very clear, you lost all respect and nothing you said after could be construed as harmless so just don't go there and try to paint that pictute of innocence.

 No, it comes down to your overly and obvious self-righteous attitude, i do not see how line 3 until the first comma means anything to me, insults became part of the discussion the moment you showed some of your true colors (not that you hid them, it is just that i have become very tired of your rediculous assumptions and basic way of functioning here). I am speaking from past experience with you, rest assured i have seen you do the necessary things to make me believe this about you. That statement you made earlier only pushed me over the edge, no words were put in you mouth, you simply said them yourself. I didn't really mean that you deserved to be attacked, i meant that you seemed to be asking for it, when you first claimed to be attacked people (like me) noticed a trend in your responses and it bothered them. I lost all respect from you nobody else said anything about me. I don't want to be seen as innocent i only said harmless because i didn't really get the whole word in mouth thing very well at the time, but now i will change that from "mostly harmless" to "mostly true, you said the things that made me believe as i do." Sorry for the accidental hypocrasy if that is what i did.

Oh, I see so we can play the insult based on what you claim happened in the past style of game.... Regardless of if it ever happened. I see... I don't think I will play that game because it will lead to a suspension from these forums but interesting all the same. Also notice how your still talking about me in a derogatory manner instead of the topic yet complained earlier I was off topic. I shall be ignoring you from now on thanks.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 avril 2012 - 11:48 .

[Cainne Chapel]

So is this a bad time to come in and say I still love bioware?

[Dragoonlordz]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

So is this a bad time to come in and say I still love bioware?

Never a bad time to say such things.

[Alex_SM]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bioware has gained positions very high up in the food chain of EA, such decisions are not quite so easy to pull off in this day and age with that much leverage from within EA towards Bioware.

Ray Muzyka became a General Manager and Vice President at EA in addition to his General Manager/CEO role at BioWare, and subsequently became a Senior Vice President and Group General Manager at EA. Dr. Gregory P. Zeschuk is a VP at EA and General Manager at BioWare Austin.

I know that, and doesn't change anything. 

Of course it changes things, in order for it to not do so you would have to make the assumption that the founders of Bioware would turn their backs on the studio. They are in such a position that it simple is not as easy to pull off a westwood closure or bullfrog compared to in the past.

It's the same. Muzyka doesn't own EA. He is not part of the board of directors. If Probst or the board decide to close BW, they close BW. They don't need to ask him. 

[Zcorck]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Dragoonlord. STOP. just. STOP.

That goes for everyone else too, Loop, Slyguy etc.

Reading this thread is almost impossible because of your back and forth. Regardless of who was "right" or 'wrong' to begin with, your constant bickering back and forth is just ridiculous. Reading through the last few pages it's like listening to little children argue over who poked who first, almost 3 out of 4 posts is solely you guys fighting.

Enough is enough. Don't say anything else. Just move on and talk about the topic if you want. We are ALL sick of your insults, regardless of who we all obviously see as the troll in this situation.

This.
I miss the original purpose of this thread.

[Dragoonlordz]

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bioware has gained positions very high up in the food chain of EA, such decisions are not quite so easy to pull off in this day and age with that much leverage from within EA towards Bioware.

Ray Muzyka became a General Manager and Vice President at EA in addition to his General Manager/CEO role at BioWare, and subsequently became a Senior Vice President and Group General Manager at EA. Dr. Gregory P. Zeschuk is a VP at EA and General Manager at BioWare Austin.

I know that, and doesn't change anything. 

Of course it changes things, in order for it to not do so you would have to make the assumption that the founders of Bioware would turn their backs on the studio. They are in such a position that it simple is not as easy to pull off a westwood closure or bullfrog compared to in the past.

It's the same. Muzyka doesn't own EA. He is not part of the board of directors. If Probst or the board decide to close BW, they close BW. They don't need to ask him. 

You can view it as glass half empty or glass half full, but for me them being in such a position and still very much involved with Bioware, plus eight studios now under Biowares wing, ME3 (from what I have seen showing good sales so far which may or may not change in the future), ToR having a large subscription rates even if not on par with Blizzard and no evidence I have seen stating this is drastically figure wise dropping. On top of EA saying themselves anything above 500k is profitable and to quote their exact words "profitable but not something to write home about" plus saying 1million is very large profit and lastly 1.7million being the last figure they released as to actual subscribers is bringing in vast profits.. In all I think EA has no intention of either now or in the near future turning Bioware into Bullfrog or Westwood. While I do get the irony in Bioware creating a new C&C.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Zcorck wrote...

I miss the original purpose of this thread.

On topic of the thread when I first came into it and looked at the site linked, they had 27 people selling new copies of the title, it is currently down to 25 suppliers. I do not know how many stock each had to sell though the last one I saw had 8 copies which have since all been sold. I do not know when they will take their own notice/message down (Amazon) but I am sure will happen first thing monday morning as a human notices it and reviews it. There may be even consequences to the people who caused it if there was a 4chan style abuse of the system in order to damage a product sales (I do not now if such happened or just few disgruntled people caused it).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 12:13 .

[kbct]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

Dragoonlord. STOP. just. STOP.

That goes for everyone else too, Loop, Slyguy etc.

Reading this thread is almost impossible because of your back and forth. Regardless of who was "right" or 'wrong' to begin with, your constant bickering back and forth is just ridiculous. Reading through the last few pages it's like listening to little children argue over who poked who first, almost 3 out of 4 posts is solely you guys fighting.

Enough is enough. Don't say anything else. Just move on and talk about the topic if you want. We are ALL sick of your insults, regardless of who we all obviously see as the troll in this situation.

Heh, look at his post count. Wow. He definitely out-posted us.