457 réponses à ce sujet

[Super.Sid]

If this thread doesn't get locked, then there is definitely something fishy

[bigfootedfred]

its no joke. there is a very distinct line between hype, and FALSE ADVERTISING. EA/bioware have crossed that line and kept running afterwards.

[Il Divo]

The Razman wrote...

The problem with everyone saying "OMG ABC STYLE ENDING" ... is that that quote has nothing to do with what everyone's trying to make people believe it does.

But as long as people have their misconceptions which fit what they want to believe ... who cares about the truth, huh?

Sounds more like you're trying to shift the focus. The quote is itself pretty straightforward. The truth is that what they said we would get and what we got were two entirely different things, which wouldn't be inherently bad if the endings themselves didn't suck.

[The Razman]

Red Viking wrote...

The Razman wrote...

L00p wrote...

Well, then that "hype" shouldn't be existing in the first place, since it is lying (calling it freakin' marketing doesn't make it anything else). Do not promise what you can't deliver. Simple.

They delivered everything they said. They merely built expectations higher than they could handle.

Welcome to marketing. You don't sue Pringles for being able to physically stop once you've opened a can. That's called hype. If people can't handle that media hype and actual product are two different things, they're going to have an awful lot of problems surviving in the world.

I disagree.  I've studied marketing and my first instinct tells me that writing off and/or betraying customer expectations is a very fast way to lose both buisness and goodwill.  You hype things in order to create excitement about a product and/or service.  But you never, ever tell your customers something you can't and/or don't deliver because they will hold you to that.

Sure. The fact that people are unsatisfied = a screw up, definitely.

Do your marketing instincts tell you that they "lied" and should be reported to the FCA and have their products messed with on Amazon, though?

[DayusMakhina]

L00p wrote...

DayusMakhina wrote...

L00p wrote...

The Razman wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Are you serious? Have you not read the pre-release statements of Mass Effect's endings made by *PARAGON INTERRUPT*

Yes, I've read all the statements, and they're not lies. They build up expectations, sure. But that's called freakin' marketing. They never lied about anything, and anyone claiming they did is taking their words out of context.

You've got a bunch of people here who are complaining that marketing hype didn't match up to the final product. I have absolutely no sympathy with these people, as they don't seem to have an understanding of what "hype" is.

It's by no means the first time a game hasn't lived up to the pre-release hype. And it's by no means the worst time its been done. Nobody else has created this much freakin' fuss about it, even in the worst of conditions. That's why you're coming off as utterly entitled.

Well, then that "hype" shouldn't be existing in the first place, since it is lying (calling it freakin' marketing doesn't make it anything else). Do not promise what you can't deliver. Simple.

If you didn't bang the girl, don't brag about it.

'Promise' generally implies that Bioware guaranteed something to be the case, I don't recall a single promise being made at all. I do recall Bioware making statements about the game, some of which have turned out to be incorrect or a stretch of the truth or just flat out wrong, but such statements never had a guarantee attached to them.

Hell, most promotional marketing material generally has some blurb attached to it indicating that there may be changes in the final product. You could probably find such statements buried in the ME marketing if you look hard enough.

Yo, your attention please!

We are not talking about believing you'll get some of the bootylicious girl from the beach in the background of a commercial, just because you're downing a coke.

Blurb is something else than saying the game will not have anything like ending A, B or C and then giving you a game wich has excactly ending A, B and C.

If you can't understand that then you have serious issues. This is just ridiculous and I can not say this point again and again while you just decide to ignore it.

I wasn't talking about "believing you'll get some of the bootylicious girl from the beach in the background of a commercial, just because you're downing a coke" either.

I was talking about "saying the game will not have anything like ending A, B or C and then giving you a game wich has excactly ending A, B and C".

The statement I made in my previous post still applies to that there ^. An i'm really not seeing how you could percieve I wasn't talking about that in the first place.

The crux of it is is that when it comes to 'delivering on what is promised' the only thing they have to deliver on is what is stated on the back of the box. Any pre-release marketing comments/material is essentially irrelevant.

Edit: That doesn't change that everybody are well within their rights to be unhappy with the product they recieved and to complain about it, that's perfectly valid and reasonable. It's just to say that Bioware are culpable of false advertising is something that quite simply would not hold up.

Modifié par DayusMakhina, 01 avril 2012 - 07:43 .

[AkiKishi]

The Razman wrote...

Sure. The fact that people are unsatisfied = a screw up, definitely.

Do your marketing instincts tell you that they "lied" and should be reported to the FCA and have their products messed with on Amazon, though?

If the grounds are there to do so then yes. That's why these organisations exist.

[The Razman]

Il Divo wrote...

Sounds more like you're trying to shift the focus. The quote is itself pretty straightforward. The truth is that what they said we would get and what we got were two entirely different things, which wouldn't be inherently bad if the endings themselves didn't suck.

Indeed, the quote itself is pretty straightforward:

Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.

It’s more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them. It would be interesting to see if somebody could put together a chart for that. Even with Mass Effect 2’s...

People always tend to ignore the second paragraph of that quote, where it's pretty clear that the whole thing is talking about whether you'll be able to say "I got the good ending/the bad ending/the neutral ending", and that you won't ... because they all have caveats.

But no ... some people see the letters "A, B, C", and their mind apparently thinks "A, B, C ... that sounds like the ending DERP!"

Really annoying, people taking things out of context.

Modifié par The Razman, 01 avril 2012 - 07:44 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Kelarq wrote...

I highly doubt it's a joke. It would deter customers from buying it, and if the price they're selling at is anything to go by, it's already struggling to sell.

If this is the result of someone complaining over alleged 'mis-advertisement' over the endings...I think I'll lose all faith.

That is exactly what someone has done. Their hurt feelings regarding pre-retail comments not the actual description of the product after hit retail. Amazon always tend to react based on complaints and you will find it will be back for sale from them after they investigate that persons hurt feelings over something not part of the retail description on their site.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[kbct]

The Razman wrote...

L00p wrote...

You're fooling no one with your quasi rhetoric.
Just put it to rest, we've handed your butt to you several times already.

*sigh* Your fail trolling is rather annoying.

Well, you were wrong about several things in this thread. First, you thought is an April Fools joke. "Methinks" you were wrong. Then you thought sales were stopped across all platforms. Wrong again.

Now you think people are "actively lying" and assume the complaints were because of the ending or false adverstising. It's a "new low." It's "too damn far." "It's a sign that people are abusing a complaints system to try and stop people from buying a game they didn't like."

In reality, we don't even know why Amazon is looking at the Xbox version. However, we do know it wasn't because of the ending or another general problem because they would have stopped selling all versions - not just the Xbox version.

Modifié par kbct, 01 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[AkiKishi]

The Razman wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Sounds more like you're trying to shift the focus. The quote is itself pretty straightforward. The truth is that what they said we would get and what we got were two entirely different things, which wouldn't be inherently bad if the endings themselves didn't suck.

Indeed, the quote itself is pretty straightforward:

Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.
It’s more like there are some really obvious things that are
different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about
who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way
down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left
your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in
them. It would be interesting to see if somebody could put together a
chart for that. Even with Mass Effect 2’s...

People always tend to ignore the second paragraph of that quote, where it's pretty clear that the whole thing is talking about whether you'll be able to say "I got the good ending/the bad ending/the neutral ending", and that you won't ... because they all have caveats.

But no ... some people see the letters "A, B, C", and their mind apparently thinks "A, B, C ... that sounds like the ending DERP!"

Really annoying, people taking things out of context.

A. Left the Galaxy boned via red.
B. Left the Galaxy boned via blue.
C. Left the Galaxy boned via green.

Just screams sophistiscation....

[bigfootedfred]

A. Left the Galaxy boned via red.
B. Left the Galaxy boned via blue.
C. Left the Galaxy boned via green.

Just screams sophistiscation....

s9.postimage.org/mhn71nknj/abc.png

[Il Divo]

The Razman wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Sounds more like you're trying to shift the focus. The quote is itself pretty straightforward. The truth is that what they said we would get and what we got were two entirely different things, which wouldn't be inherently bad if the endings themselves didn't suck.

Indeed, the quote itself is pretty straightforward:

Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.

It’s more like there are some really obvious things that are different and then lots and lots of smaller things, lots of things about who lives and who dies, civilizations that rose and fell, all the way down to individual characters. That becomes the state of where you left your galaxy. The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them. It would be interesting to see if somebody could put together a chart for that. Even with Mass Effect 2’s...

People always tend to ignore the second paragraph of that quote, where it's pretty clear that the whole thing is talking about whether you'll be able to say "I got the good ending/the bad ending/the neutral ending", and that you won't ... because they all have caveats.

But no ... some people see the letters "A, B, C", and their mind apparently thinks "A, B, C ... that sounds like the ending DERP!"

Really annoying, people taking things out of context.

Ah, but that's the thing: we can say how many endings there are and whether we got A, B, or C. They made it exceptionally easy for us as it's currently designed. It doesn't matter whether he's attempting to pass of the ability to kill Tali or whatever as an "ending". You could kill her in ME2 - is he going to throw that on top of the pile in his list of "endings"? I highly doubt it.  You see, ultimately it does have the traditional game format.

Modifié par Il Divo, 01 avril 2012 - 07:49 .

[The Razman]

kbct wrote...

Well, you were wrong about several things in this thread. First, you thought is an April Fools joke. "Methinks" you were wrong. Then you thought sales were stopped across all platforms. Wrong again.

Um ... everyone thought it was an April Fool's joke at first. Checked the date? And it's not an unreasonable assumption that it was happening across all platforms ... considering the messages were appearing on all three platforms when you selected them from the initial link. What would you assume?

Now you think people are "actively lying" and assume the complaints were because of the ending or false adverstising. It's a "new low." It's "too damn far." "It's a sign that people are abusing a complaints system to try and stop people from buying a game they didn't like."

In reality, we don't even know why Amazon is looking at the Xbox version. However, we do know it wasn't because of the ending or another general problem because they would have stopped selling all versions - not just the Xbox version.

No. They wouldn't. Amazon, like most big companies like those, operate on an automated system ... you get enough complaints about a product, it's automatically flagged until a human can look at it. It wouldn't necessarily make it flagged for all platforms.

It's a hefty coincidence, so yes ... I'm assuming it was because of some idiotic people complaining because of the endings. I'll be happy to retract that and apologise if it turns out to be something else.

[Dragoonlordz]

L00p wrote...

kbct wrote...

The Razman wrote...

L00p wrote...

You're fooling no one with your quasi rhetoric.
Just put it to rest, we've handed your butt to you several times already.

*sigh* Your fail trolling is rather annoying.

Well, you were wrong about several things in this thread. First, you thought is an April Fools joke. "Methinks" you were wrong. Then you thought sales were stopped across all platforms. Wrong again.

Now you think people are "actively lying" and assume the complaints were because of the ending or false adverstising. It's a "new low." It's "too damn far." "It's a sign that people are abusing a complaints system to try and stop people from buying a game they didn't like."

This.
More and more convinced he is paid.

I am sure he is paid just not by Bioware, the fact you assume someone is paid by Bioware puts you in the same hypocritical status as the element you agreed with which states about making assumptions. Congratulations you unlocked the "Hypocrite" achievement.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 01 avril 2012 - 07:54 .

[bigfootedfred]

It's a hefty coincidence, so yes ... I'm assuming it was because of some idiotic people complaining because of the endings. I'll be happy to retract that and apologise if it turns out to be something else.

what 'endings' would these be?

do you mean the one exact same ending that comes in 3 pretty colours and you get to choose which colour you like best?