338 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Smugglers Luck wrote...

Asari mate with other species because asari-asari relationships are considered taboo in their society.

Which is a pretty big joke, by the way.

As Liara puts it in ME1: "Of course we can mate with other asari, or we would have been extinct long before discovering space travel".

So yea.....

[Lynata]

The reasoning behind that taboo makes sense. Mating with other species enriches the asari pool, in turn strengthening their entire race. It would be more logical if said taboo would only extend to pureblood+pureblood, however.

Non-pureblood asari mating with each other, however, would actually benefit them even more, as the offspring of such a union would often receive the traits of at least three different species instead of just two (asari + whatever alien they mate with).

The current social standards would still result in an asari offspring some day having grandparents of all the other races, but it would take much, much, much more time to achieve this result.

[Raven vas Bernal]

Asari are the image of selfishness. Their laws allow anything that does not affect others, wich some may consider fair, but it shows they dont care about their people. Lets look at the Quarians: Civic-Military government with strict traditions and comunity life. Turians? Honour, Family, and strenght. Batarians, humans, even elcor, hannar and volus show interest in their families and species, while the asari are just "peace is enough, where is the bar?". Justicars are the exception.

[Lynata]

The asari as a species often get reduced to these 10% of their lifespan; it must be where the misconceptions Liara complained about in ME3 are coming from.

If "peace would be enough", the asari would have probably never left their homeworld. Instead, they actively pursue establishing the current species' first galactic government, peacefully uniting the sentient races under the leadership of a centralized authority. To me it seems obvious that they see themselves as a guiding hand for the other races, something also represented in the name of their flagship, the "Destiny Ascension", which coincidentally is the most powerful warship of the Citadel Fleet. And then we have those countless huntresses making up their military, with a prowess that impressed even the turians so much so that they ceded the title of the "finest warriors of the galaxy" to them, which is quite remarkable for a culture so focused on warfare.

So ... no, I cannot quite agree. In fact, the asari seem to be the most selfless species of them all, simply because their philosophy teaches that all life is connected and they regard it as a cultural responsibility to do anything in their power to connect it via diplomatic channels as well ... whereas races such as batarians and humans are largely concerned with nothing but their own advancement, not caring about the greater whole at all.

[Tirigon]

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Asari are the image of selfishness. Their laws allow anything that does not affect others, wich some may consider fair, but it shows they dont care about their people. Lets look at the Quarians: Civic-Military government with strict traditions and comunity life. Turians? Honour, Family, and strenght. Batarians, humans, even elcor, hannar and volus show interest in their families and species, while the asari are just "peace is enough, where is the bar?". Justicars are the exception.

Which is why I find them so interesting. Humans should be more like them (justicars obviously excluded), and the world would be a better place.

[Awookie]

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Asari are the image of selfishness. Their laws allow anything that does not affect others, wich some may consider fair, but it shows they dont care about their people. Lets look at the Quarians: Civic-Military government with strict traditions and comunity life. Turians? Honour, Family, and strenght. Batarians, humans, even elcor, hannar and volus show interest in their families and species, while the asari are just "peace is enough, where is the bar?". Justicars are the exception.

You know, I always imagined each race as a metaphor to modern day governments.
Asari seem somewhat similar to the European government system, which is more liberal in social conventions.

The humans seem akin to present day US.  We pride ourselves in families and conservative social values, but in terms of social duty, we seem to stray away from it.  The US has a relatively small percentage of the population volunteering for military service (Much like the Systems Alliance), and the Universal Health care bill is quite unpopular.  The codex states that only 3% of humans volunteer.  Seems close to the 1% that volunteers as of now.  

Turians seem like a Socialist one party/hierarchy, with advancement based on case by case discretion or family ties/connections.  Somewhat represents USSR/China. 

Batarians are a paranoid pariah state, in constant fear of revolt and outside influence.  Kinda like Cuba/North Korea. 

Modifié par Awookie, 04 avril 2012 - 08:39 .

[sorentoft]

Awookie wrote...

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Asari are the image of selfishness. Their laws allow anything that does not affect others, wich some may consider fair, but it shows they dont care about their people. Lets look at the Quarians: Civic-Military government with strict traditions and comunity life. Turians? Honour, Family, and strenght. Batarians, humans, even elcor, hannar and volus show interest in their families and species, while the asari are just "peace is enough, where is the bar?". Justicars are the exception.

You know, I always imagined each race as a metaphor to modern day governments.
Asari seem somewhat similar to the European government system, which is more liberal in social conventions.

I'm flattered, but no. There is no such thing as a European government system. And what we have in Europe is certainly not utopian anywhere.

[Tirigon]

sorentoft wrote...

I'm flattered, but no. There is no such thing as a European government system. And what we have in Europe is certainly not utopian anywhere.

It actually is, compared to... well pretty much everywhere.

Sadly, that is more because of everywhere else being hell rather than Europe being heaven

Modifié par Tirigon, 04 avril 2012 - 08:39 .

[Awookie]

sorentoft wrote...

Awookie wrote...

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Asari are the image of selfishness. Their laws allow anything that does not affect others, wich some may consider fair, but it shows they dont care about their people. Lets look at the Quarians: Civic-Military government with strict traditions and comunity life. Turians? Honour, Family, and strenght. Batarians, humans, even elcor, hannar and volus show interest in their families and species, while the asari are just "peace is enough, where is the bar?". Justicars are the exception.

You know, I always imagined each race as a metaphor to modern day governments.
Asari seem somewhat similar to the European government system, which is more liberal in social conventions.

I'm flattered, but no. There is no such thing as a European government system. And what we have in Europe is certainly not utopian anywhere.

I generally define it as :

Moderate social net
Liberal social policy (Tolerant of sexual orientation, religion, individual choices and freedoms)
Government based partly on elections, partly on appointments by other elected officials. 
Moderate investment into military R&D
Non intrusive foreign policy, centered around diplomacy

[kalle90]

sorentoft wrote...

Awookie wrote...

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Asari are the image of selfishness. Their laws allow anything that does not affect others, wich some may consider fair, but it shows they dont care about their people. Lets look at the Quarians: Civic-Military government with strict traditions and comunity life. Turians? Honour, Family, and strenght. Batarians, humans, even elcor, hannar and volus show interest in their families and species, while the asari are just "peace is enough, where is the bar?". Justicars are the exception.

You know, I always imagined each race as a metaphor to modern day governments.
Asari seem somewhat similar to the European government system, which is more liberal in social conventions.

I'm flattered, but no. There is no such thing as a European government system. And what we have in Europe is certainly not utopian anywhere.

Case in point: Asari culture is not  utopian

But every other culture can be more from hell. I certainly wouldn't like to live in Krogan, Turian or Salarian culture, not to mention the other ones. To me it looks like humanity is too smoothed out in ME as well, in ME you see none of the issues we have IRL (racism, poverty, unequality, oppression. Heck Earth looks great considering they had just "solved" overpopulation). So I wouldn't find it hard to believe I'd prefer asari culture.

[Tirigon]

kalle90 wrote...
 in ME you see none of the issues we have IRL (racism, poverty, unequality, oppression. Heck Earth looks great considering they had just "solved" overpopulation). So I wouldn't find it hard to believe I'd prefer asari culture.

Racism does not exist in a world where aliens exist.

You dont hate someone for having brown skin if you can hate someone for being a spiky, 2 metres high monster from another planet, instead.

[xIREDEEMEDIx]

The Woldan wrote...

IElitePredatorI wrote...

FenixWylde wrote...

..and that is why I'd stick to Quarians

Damn straight.

...and they have space aids. Thats why I would stick to my own kind, everything else is creepy. 

So I guess this means an Elcore is out of the question for you?   

[Gulaman]

How do Asari reproduce with females? Do they come equipped with both male and female organs?

[kalle90]

Tirigon wrote...

kalle90 wrote...
 in ME you see none of the issues we have IRL (racism, poverty, unequality, oppression. Heck Earth looks great considering they had just "solved" overpopulation). So I wouldn't find it hard to believe I'd prefer asari culture.

Racism does not exist in a world where aliens exist.

You dont hate someone for having brown skin if you can hate someone for being a spiky, 2 metres high monster from another planet, instead.

We could hate cats

Seriously though might be, but it looks like there were no aliens on Earth so shouldn't that incite people to find other targets amongst their near vicinity? Though one could say that Alliance-Cerberus was that front.

[Tirigon]

Gulaman wrote...

How do Asari reproduce with females? Do they come equipped with both male and female organs?

Nope, asari do not have sexual reproduction.
They breed what are essentially clones of themselves, but before "pregnancy" (for lack of a better word, it is not technically pregnancy) they use space magic powered by melding with a partner to mutate the child's genome, thus creating a recombinant genome for the child, achieving what humans achieve via sexual reproduction.

[Lynata]

Tirigon wrote...
Racism does not exist in a world where aliens exist.

Right, racism has just evolved into speciesism.

Humans have a tendency to form semi-exclusive groups with the intention of dominating others, a leftover from back when mankind was barely intelligent but very territorial. As humanity developed culture, this slowly turned into the simple need to feel better by claiming others are inferior to oneself. The factor which separates these social groups from one another can range all the way from skin colour to religion, from nationality to gender or sexual orientation.

Basically, it's all about conforming to what the local majority regards as normal. That which is most "alien" is shunned and hated, as it becomes a convenient scapegoat to blame for everything that goes wrong and/or presented as a threat against tradition and safety.

And since an entirely different species is way more alien than people with different skin colours or religious beliefs ... this is the irony: If we ever do make contact with an alien species IRL, I see it as entirely possible that some day, people from groups that used to oppose each other will stand side by side, now slandering that which is "even more different".

I think this is the biggest curse mankind has to deal with, simply because it has snuck into so many layers and prejudices. Misogyny, racism and homophobia can all be explained by this phenomenon.

kalle90 wrote...
Seriously though might be, but it looks like there were no aliens on Earth so shouldn't that incite people to find other targets amongst their near vicinity? Though one could say that Alliance-Cerberus was that front.

I think as long as people can still point a finger at "them blasted aliens", they will remain a convenient target to blame and to focus the public's fear and envy on. Propaganda would simply shift to keeping them away from Earth and a belief that the aliens should keep their fingers out off the Systems Alliance's affairs and how humanity is always held back by the Council blah blah ...

Babylon 5 dealt with this as well, didn't it?

Modifié par Lynata, 04 avril 2012 - 09:18 .

[Tirigon]

kalle90 wrote...

We could hate cats

Seriously though might be, but it looks like there were no aliens on Earth so shouldn't that incite people to find other targets amongst their near vicinity? Though one could say that Alliance-Cerberus was that front.

Racism is usually born from fear - fear the strangers may take away our land, destroy our culture, steal our jobs or whatever bullsh!t you can come up with.

Cats are not a valid target because they are not intelligent (at least not in a way recognizable to humans) and are no match for us. You simply CAN NOT believe cats would destroy your country by immigration and taking away your culture.

As for the point about no aliens being on Earth: that is indeed a valid point, but I assume that news about Aliens, and seeing your military dealing with them - even fighting during the First Contact War - is enough.

[kalle90]

Just find it hard to believe this Earth of ours could change so much after being able to travel in space and find other intelligent life. Not just technology and view of the world but old feuds, social and environmental issues etc. Especially when even ME codex and Thane state how Earth just barely managed to find this solution before being completely destroyed by overpopulation and drained out environment.

The point though: If humans were like they are in ME, it would be hard to decide between humans and asari. In the end one lasting theme of ME is humanity's resolve and skill. As lengthy and advanced asari and everyone else are they still need humans to win this. In these games humanity is put in very good light despite being a junior in the crowd and being the founders of galaxy's most notorious terrorist organization.

Oh, one other thing about Reapers. When it looked like all powerful machines are only at Earth no one else was bothered. Then it became obvious Reapers are going to take everyone down yet every race was still only looking after themselves. Even asari were very much "We have our own problems to deal with kthxbye"

[sorentoft]

Tirigon wrote...

sorentoft wrote...



I'm
flattered, but no. There is no such thing as a European government
system. And what we have in Europe is certainly not utopian anywhere.

It actually is, compared to... well pretty much everywhere.



Sadly, that is more because of everywhere else being hell rather than Europe being heaven [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

Well, I suppose you are right about that. Denmark (where I live) is somewhat of a utopia compared to say... A third world country in Africa. But even then I would still not classify it as a utopian culture. It's not.

Awookie wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Awookie wrote...

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Asari
are the image of selfishness. Their laws allow anything that does not
affect others, wich some may consider fair, but it shows they dont care
about their people. Lets look at the Quarians: Civic-Military government
with strict traditions and comunity life. Turians? Honour, Family, and
strenght. Batarians, humans, even elcor, hannar and volus show interest
in their families and species, while the asari are just "peace is
enough, where is the bar?". Justicars are the exception.

You know, I always imagined each race as a metaphor to modern day governments.
Asari seem somewhat similar to the European government system, which is more liberal in social conventions.

I'm
flattered, but no. There is no such thing as a European government
system. And what we have in Europe is certainly not utopian anywhere.

I generally define it as :

Moderate social net
Liberal social policy (Tolerant of sexual orientation, religion, individual choices and freedoms)
Government based partly on elections, partly on appointments by other elected officials. 
Moderate investment into military R&D
Non intrusive foreign policy, centered around diplomacy

What you describe is a wellfare state. Aside of that Denmark, for example, has been participating in more wars the last ten years than we had in 150 years before that. Our foreign policy has been very aggressive lately. Most important is that you cannot put all European nations into the same box because we are not unified the way USA is. The only thing really keeping us together is that we started both world wars against each other and do not want it happening again. That and it is beneficial from an economical point of view.

kalle90 wrote...

sorentoft wrote...

Awookie wrote...

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Asari are the image of selfishness. Their laws allow anything that does not affect others, wich some may consider fair, but it shows they dont care about their people. Lets look at the Quarians: Civic-Military government with strict traditions and comunity life. Turians? Honour, Family, and strenght. Batarians, humans, even elcor, hannar and volus show interest in their families and species, while the asari are just "peace is enough, where is the bar?". Justicars are the exception.

You know, I always imagined each race as a metaphor to modern day governments.
Asari seem somewhat similar to the European government system, which is more liberal in social conventions.

I'm flattered, but no. There is no such thing as a European government system. And what we have in Europe is certainly not utopian anywhere.

Case in point: Asari culture is not  utopian

But every other culture can be more from hell. I certainly wouldn't like to live in Krogan, Turian or Salarian culture, not to mention the other ones. To me it looks like humanity is too smoothed out in ME as well, in ME you see none of the issues we have IRL (racism, poverty, unequality, oppression. Heck Earth looks great considering they had just "solved" overpopulation). So I wouldn't find it hard to believe I'd prefer asari culture.

It is utopian. Thier long lives and having no problems to truly overcome as a society is the reason Asari are so stagnant. Besides Turian and Salarian culture is not that bad.

[Awookie]

sorentoft wrote...


It is utopian. Thier long lives and having no problems to truly overcome as a society is the reason Asari are so stagnant. Besides Turian and Salarian culture is not that bad.

Turians are a bit socialist IMO.  But  I can see why their people are the ones with the strongest military.  After all, a strong sense of public service and less bureaucracy from the democracy gets $*** done.  

[Han Shot First]

The Turians are basically the Roman Empire in space, without the economy that revolved around conquest & plunder.

[Tirigon]

sorentoft wrote...

It is utopian. Thier long lives and having no problems to truly overcome as a society is the reason Asari are so stagnant. Besides Turian and Salarian culture is not that bad.

I dont know enough about the Salarian culture, but the Turian one is definitely bad... for the individual. It IS good for the state, though. That is because generally speaking, the state prospers the more individuals suffer.
The comparison to socialist or communist countries is definitely valid - the only real difference is that they dont excuse it with BS such as "dictatorship of proletarians" or "social justice".

And of course that Turians are kinda weird and seem to like it, all in all.

[kalle90]

sorentoft wrote...
It is utopian. Thier long lives and having no problems to truly overcome as a society is the reason Asari are so stagnant. Besides Turian and Salarian culture is not that bad.

But look at humanity in ME. They don't really seem to have any issues we are having or atleast they're all swept under a carpet. You could say Cerberus nullifies that, but without them Reapers would have won at act 2.

[greggm2000]

Lynata wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
Racism does not exist in a world where aliens exist.

Right, racism has just evolved into speciesism.

Humans have a tendency to form semi-exclusive groups with the intention of dominating others, a leftover from back when mankind was barely intelligent but very territorial. As humanity developed culture, this slowly turned into the simple need to feel better by claiming others are inferior to oneself. The factor which separates these social groups from one another can range all the way from skin colour to religion, from nationality to gender or sexual orientation.

Basically, it's all about conforming to what the local majority regards as normal. That which is most "alien" is shunned and hated, as it becomes a convenient scapegoat to blame for everything that goes wrong and/or presented as a threat against tradition and safety.

And since an entirely different species is way more alien than people with different skin colours or religious beliefs ... this is the irony: If we ever do make contact with an alien species IRL, I see it as entirely possible that some day, people from groups that used to oppose each other will stand side by side, now slandering that which is "even more different".

I think this is the biggest curse mankind has to deal with, simply because it has snuck into so many layers and prejudices. Misogyny, racism and homophobia can all be explained by this phenomenon.

kalle90 wrote...
Seriously though might be, but it looks like there were no aliens on Earth so shouldn't that incite people to find other targets amongst their near vicinity? Though one could say that Alliance-Cerberus was that front.

I think as long as people can still point a finger at "them blasted aliens", they will remain a convenient target to blame and to focus the public's fear and envy on. Propaganda would simply shift to keeping them away from Earth and a belief that the aliens should keep their fingers out off the Systems Alliance's affairs and how humanity is always held back by the Council blah blah ...

Babylon 5 dealt with this as well, didn't it?

I would expect racism and so forth to still persist, though it probably would be diminished somewhat. Humans as a species change slowly.

[Tirigon]

greggm2000 wrote...

I would expect racism and so forth to still persist, though it probably would be diminished somewhat. Humans as a species change slowly.

There are always a few idiots, that is undoubtedly.

But it would no longer be a major problem as it is now.

A somewhat similar comparison is the hate many westerners used to have  for Communism: During the Cold War, they were the most evil thing on Earth, but nowadays barely anyone gives a damn anymore, because Islamist terrorism is the new enemy.