338 réponses à ce sujet

[Raven vas Bernal]

Racism is often confused with intollerance.

[Tirigon]

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Racism is often confused with intollerance.

Racism IS intolerance against foreigners.


Great job necroing this thread just for a pointless and wrong statement,....

[Han Shot First]

Raven vas Bernal wrote...

Racism is often confused with intollerance.

I'm not quite sure what point you were trying to make, but racism is intolerance towards people who come from a different ethnic group. Of course the word 'racism' doesn't really apply to Sci Fi universes with aliens, as racism just refers to prejudices against the different ethnic groups of Man. People who had an irrational hatred or prejudices against aliens would probably just be called xenophobes.

[Overule]

It's also worth noting that xenophobia (as opposed to racism) is actually pretty logical. Any species you meet outside your own world would (in this universe anyway) likely feel 0 empathy for any human beings they may meet. Why would they? It'd be like expecting ants to be willing and able to empathize with bees. Expecting a member of a species you've just met to behave and act like a human being under the same circumstances? Naive at best, stupid at worst.

[Raizo]

I used to back in the ME1 days, I have a very severe allergy to all types of seafood which in turn has been evolved into a sort of phobia, I could never get past the fact that the Asari look like they have squid/octopus tentacles on thier heads.

Nowadays it no longer bothers me although I still don't understand how anyone kind find the Asari attractive, they just don't do anything for me.

[Tirigon]

Overule wrote...

It's also worth noting that xenophobia (as opposed to racism) is actually pretty logical. Any species you meet outside your own world would (in this universe anyway) likely feel 0 empathy for any human beings they may meet. Why would they? It'd be like expecting ants to be willing and able to empathize with bees. Expecting a member of a species you've just met to behave and act like a human being under the same circumstances? Naive at best, stupid at worst.

Being aware of differences does not equal hatred.

I know perfectly well that monkeys are no humans, and I couldnt expect anything from them, but I dont hate them for it.

[Peregrin25]

If Asari were proven to be a real race of beings. I wouldn't hesitate to get romantically involved.

Liara is has been my favorite character in Mass Effect series, most of it s because she is has that ruthless innocence about her. Not to mention she is frikkin hot. Asari being blue kinda makes things interesting. When ever I play I always make Liara my love interest with Shepard, because to me it has the best out come aswell.

If Asari were real I would hit it!

[grifter024]

Overule wrote...

It's also worth noting that xenophobia (as opposed to racism) is actually pretty logical. Any species you meet outside your own world would (in this universe anyway) likely feel 0 empathy for any human beings they may meet. Why would they? It'd be like expecting ants to be willing and able to empathize with bees. Expecting a member of a species you've just met to behave and act like a human being under the same circumstances? Naive at best, stupid at worst.

I guess that is why it is considered "Ok," To call Ashley racist right off the bat when most that call her that don't even take the time to get to know the character more. I never understood how someone can call Ash racist when she herself said she has never dealt with aliens first hand before....yet everyone blasts her instantly and calls her racist. I think if aliens dropped out of the sky tomorrow even if they are Asari I can pretty much bet 88% of people will be wary of them and not hugging them instantly.

OT: What I find weird is the whole stages the Asari go throug. The first one is learning everything they can and finding someone, second stage is basically birth baby and be mom and wife/husband, third is them forgetting about either and pursuing their own thing. Nice to know that there is a point in the Asaris life that they don't care about anything but their own ambitions even if it means forgetting about their partner and children, because we all saw how cold Benezia was towards Liara even at the end...she acted like she was just another asari.

[Peregrin25]

grifter024 wrote...

Overule wrote...

It's also worth noting that xenophobia (as opposed to racism) is actually pretty logical. Any species you meet outside your own world would (in this universe anyway) likely feel 0 empathy for any human beings they may meet. Why would they? It'd be like expecting ants to be willing and able to empathize with bees. Expecting a member of a species you've just met to behave and act like a human being under the same circumstances? Naive at best, stupid at worst.

I guess that is why it is considered "Ok," To call Ashley racist right off the bat when most that call her that don't even take the time to get to know the character more. I never understood how someone can call Ash racist when she herself said she has never dealt with aliens first hand before....yet everyone blasts her instantly and calls her racist. I think if aliens dropped out of the sky tomorrow even if they are Asari I can pretty much bet 88% of people will be wary of them and not hugging them instantly.

OT: What I find weird is the whole stages the Asari go throug. The first one is learning everything they can and finding someone, second stage is basically birth baby and be mom and wife/husband, third is them forgetting about either and pursuing their own thing. Nice to know that there is a point in the Asaris life that they don't care about anything but their own ambitions even if it means forgetting about their partner and children, because we all saw how cold Benezia was towards Liara even at the end...she acted like she was just another asari.

Alot of Benezia's problems were due to her slow indoctrination according to ME time line the time Benezia and Liara were apart wasn't very long at all.

Also, take Samara into consideration. reguardless of her doing her own thing she still had feelings and holds her children close to her heart. when you really get to know Samara you kind of feel sorry for her. There is alot of unspoken emotion with the Asari. when ever I see an Asari that you can delv deper into their culture and or personal feelings you find out alot of those kinds of things. I find Asari very intrigueing. Not to mention have a very beautifull way of life. And like Liara says in ME1 When they make that meld with their bond mate it lasts forever even after the bond mate has passed with a shorter lived species. It never goes away.

[Overule]

Tirigon wrote...

Being aware of differences does not equal hatred.

I know perfectly well that monkeys are no humans, and I couldnt expect anything from them, but I dont hate them for it.

No, but it should equal caution. The safest and smartest move when dealing with any species of comparable intelligence to your own is to assume hostility and plan accordingly.

And I (like alot of people) am extremely wary of any species with the ability to intuitively tamper with my mind. Ecspecially when they seem to be the would be puppet masters of the galaxy already.

Also worth noting: if Asari can't safely reproduce among themselves then they're (in Darwinian terms) an inferior species. Choosing to mate with an Asari could very easily be construed as a form of genetic charity.

[Asari Healer]

I do not find Asari creepy at all.

Try typing this into Google Image search: Justice League Imperium

And wet yourself with fear. They can shape shift and take on the appearance of any life form that walks on two feet. For animals, they create shape shifting creatures to do animal work to fool everyone and take over. According to Justice League Secret Origins episodes, they almost killed off an entire advanced race: the Martians. Only one, if not a few more, survived.

The Imperium use the tactic of infiltration and replacement of important figures in a society. They then weaken the civilization without anyone knowing for some time. Months, years, decades, or even centuries could pass before they spring their invasion force and take over completely. This process alone is terrifying, the people who you think are your friends or family could be one of them! I would be scared to death.

Worse, in the Justice League Secret Origins episodes, the Imperium mother ship flees to another part of the Galaxy. Which means they might be back some time later with a massive fleet and try to get revenge!

(Just stating my opinion here)

[Asari Healer]

slyguy200 wrote...

Meh, i already knew that stuff and i still don't find it creepy, just interesting.
And if they really don't look human, than why does liara wear human armor in ME1?

I think some people have irrational fear.
And those three guys in the bar in Mass Effect 2 were most likely very drunk past anything. I would not be surprised if they were drinking Matriarch Aethyta’s secret drink. That drink made Shepard so drunk he saw things in one drink,

[JamieCOTC]

Asari are blue space babes, just like the green space babes from Star Trek, except they are blue. That's pretty much it. My only theory concerning Liara is that she exists only because Miranda wasn't in ME1.

[Lynata]

Asari Healer wrote...
And those three guys in the bar in Mass Effect 2 were most likely very drunk past anything. I would not be surprised if they were drinking Matriarch Aethyta’s secret drink. That drink made Shepard so drunk he saw things in one drink,

I think it boils down to the overstatement of individual minor common similarities (head ridges, facial features, skin texture, ...) that just end up having them look eerily familiar  - but yes, likely intensified by being drunk. It does sound like a contest to whose race the pretty asari are "related" the most. In extension, a supposed connection would also make one's own species stand in a better light.

[Dead_Meat357]

Overule wrote...

Fact: an Asari is capable of being sexually attracted to/involved with practically any sentient being in the known galaxy. Krogan, Volus, Quarian, Hanar, Elcor? I'm certain there are a few thousand little Asari babies who flirt like this:

"Warm, hello. My name is Tiana. Daring, wanna come up to my room later?"

Fact: an Asari has a lifespan that stretches over several centuries. If you take one message away from a romantic relationship between a Human and Asari, it's that you (the human) are entirely replaceable. To them 50 years of marriage is like a long weekend.

Fact: they can invade your thoughts. Worse still, they do it during sexual activity. Meaning that hooking up with an Asari, ANY Asari for any amount of time means giving up the sum total of your secrets to her. And while in ME this kind of bonding took place mostly between willing partners (Shep/Liara), Morinth stands as a horrifically suitable counterpoint. And think about this, what about Asari rapists? I don't mean Ardat Yakshi, I just mean the mundane kind that sexually assault people to feel powerful. They'd need to exist somewhere, an Asari's basic psychology isn't that different from that of a human being. And an Asari rapist doesn't *just* violate your body, she violates your most intimate memories and dreams.

Fact: they're trying to edge you out of the evolutionary race. So it's been pointed out that Asari can *mate* with literally anything that moves, but no matter what these couplings always produce 100% Asari children. Making matters worse, it's been pointed out that any member of any species (male or female) has the potential to fall for an Asari. And the cherry on the creepy milkshake? *They actively prefer to seek out partners from other species*. Meaning that not only does every mixed Asari couple grow the blue babe population, but it actively shrinks the population of every other species in the galaxy by depriving them of future children.

Fact: they're all biotic, and get stronger over time. Meaning every single one of them could potentially tear apart whatever room they're standing in with a singularity.

Speculation: the "human" faces aren't real. This all goes back to one line from ME2 in which a Salarian bachelor party discusses how all the different species present insist that Asari look exactly like their own species. Now this hasn't ever been confirmed or denied, but I suspect that even the *physical* aspect of people's attraction to these freaky things is involuntary. Given the whole freaking invasive nervous system bit, the weirdness that it is Ardat Yakshi-dom and the abundance of bizarre biotic powers? I'm perfectly willing to believe that they don't even remotely resemble the tentacle haired waifs I've been looking at for three games. That image is just what a human being (Shepard) sees when they look at an Asari.

I had actually forgot about the bachelor party lines in ME2. Though I took it to mean more that they probably had a pheremone which made them desirable. Not so much that they physically looked different. I don't think the latter would work as recordings viewed in absense of the pheremone would likely show their true form. So I don't know that Asari really physically look different to anyone, they are just attractive to various species for different reasons.

Humans who like asses and boobs will look at their more human features. A turian might look at their scalp crests and see a passing resemblence to turian head spike things. And physically, quarians resemble humans and turians in subtle ways. These slight physical queues may be what they pick up on. For example: Turians have similar legs to quarians, and similar hands. Otherwise they look mostly human based on what we can see of them. Asari have the pointed things on the back of their heads like turians in a way, but their arms look more like that of a quarian (And humans by extension.) They'll have abdominal regions more like a quarian as well. So a turian who likes quarians may like quarians because they see traits in them that resemble turians, and conversely, they may subconsciously take it a step further with Asari in that they see the quarian traits and mentally bridge that gap in believing that there is more of a resemblence between Asari and turians than there actually is.

This is how I think it was meant. Aside from that, the OP makes some good points. Asari who wanted to, could do horrible things to the unwilling. If you had enough paragon or renegade points, then you could resist Morinth, suggesting that Asari can force the issue, and that few can actually resist. Though it's unclear whether or not this talent of Morinth's is indicative of all Asari, or just her perfecting her craft. It could also be a physiological manifestation of the Ardat-Yakshi and normal Asari are incapable of forcing someone to meld with them to that degree. They just aren't terribly clear about that. 

Taken from another direction, given the writer's obvious fondness for the Liara character, and possibly the Asari as a race in the game, I'd wager that they don't really look like monsters. What we see playing the games is most likely what they really look like, though people's perceptions of their forms may be clouded in the way I've suggested above.

An interesting post though. I hadn't really given much thought to how the Asari might misuse their talents to further their own gains.

Modifié par Dead_Meat357, 30 avril 2012 - 09:16 .

[Asari Healer]

Lynata wrote...

Asari Healer wrote...
And those three guys in the bar in Mass Effect 2 were most likely very drunk past anything. I would not be surprised if they were drinking Matriarch Aethyta’s secret drink. That drink made Shepard so drunk he saw things in one drink,

I think it boils down to the overstatement of individual minor common similarities (head ridges, facial features, skin texture, ...) that just end up having them look eerily familiar  - but yes, likely intensified by being drunk. It does sound like a contest to whose race the pretty asari are "related" the most. In extension, a supposed connection would also make one's own species stand in a better light.

You are right about that. I would figure that since some people are paranoid about mind control, the paranoia could still be present in the Mass Effect universe. It might be less common but still present.

[Selene Moonsong]

Personally, I find the Asari and interesting species along with their culture and do not find them 'creepy'.

They are more human like than other species based on the ME series in that they can eat the same foods and that they wear human clothes/armor (If you remember back to ME 1, Liara could only wear human armor and none of the other species armor). Other things mentioned, such as Tali mentioning that at least Liara can eat their food on the Normandy (referring to human food).

Despite the discussion in the bar in Nos Astra between the human, salarian, and turian suggesting that Asari appears to be of other species depending on which race is viewing them, my feeling is that humans may see them as more their natural appearance than other species, especially considering that the turian in the group says something about the way the dancer was moving at one point that goes something like, "that made my legs hurt, and my legs were meant to bend like that". That also suggest the while they may look something like another species, they do not look exactly like a given race viewing them.

As far as their abilities are concerned, their society prevents abuse for the most part. They probably could wreck havoc on the galaxy, but seem more a passive society rather than aggressive. That could also be a part of their biological, psycological, and physiological makeup as well considering that other races are needed as they are mating purposes. If they were to use their abilities to subvert other species, it could likely eventually cause a similar problem like the Ardat Yatsi (sp?). So, it would not be in their best interest not to subvert other species. Besides, most species will cling to their own kind anyway, the Asari are an exception, not a rule.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 30 avril 2012 - 09:24 .

[LuckyNumberN7]

Most are valid point's but I sill love Liara! (:

[astreqwerty]

Overule wrote...


Speculation: the "human" faces aren't real. This all goes back to one line from ME2 in which a Salarian bachelor party discusses how all the different species present insist that Asari look exactly like their own species. Now this hasn't ever been confirmed or denied, but I suspect that even the *physical* aspect of people's attraction to these freaky things is involuntary. Given the whole freaking invasive nervous system bit, the weirdness that it is Ardat Yakshi-dom and the abundance of bizarre biotic powers? I'm perfectly willing to believe that they don't even remotely resemble the tentacle haired waifs I've been looking at for three games. That image is just what a human being (Shepard) sees when they look at an Asari.

one word: unsetling

[BouncyCaitian]

Liara's Lazy eye is creepy

[Lynata]

Dead_Meat357 wrote...
This is how I think it was meant. Aside from that, the OP makes some good points. Asari who wanted to, could do horrible things to the unwilling. If you had enough paragon or renegade points, then you could resist Morinth, suggesting that Asari can force the issue, and that few can actually resist. Though it's unclear whether or not this talent of Morinth's is indicative of all Asari, or just her perfecting her craft.

The latter, I think - Ardat-Yakshi work a little like biotic vampires who grow stronger with each victim; who knows how many partners she had to kill to gain this kind of ability? At one point, Morinth states her belief that she is "the genetic destiny of her species", which may be true insofar as that the asari are capable to be much more powerful than they are now, if they'd just be willing to pay the same price as she did. In spite of being 600 years younger than her mother, she already rivals Samara in her biotics. How strong would she have been at the same age?

Morinth also has exclusive access to these unique traits:
http://masseffect.wi...-Yakshi_(power)
http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate

If all asari were capable of controlling the minds of others as easily as that, I would think that we'd have seen it. In spite of the rather peaceful and social asari philosophies, there are quite a number of them who have become corrupt in the pursuit of political power or wealth, and Shep deals with some of them.

Asari Healer wrote...
I would figure that since some people are paranoid about mind control, the paranoia could still be present in the Mass Effect universe. It might be less common but still present.

Probably! Turians are said to distrust biotics, and I think it doesn't take much to assume that many humans may distrust such abilities as well - especially once they get to know they can work on your mind, too. I vaguely recall sceptical remarks from the crew in ME1 as Liara asked if she'd be allowed to meld with Shep. And who could blame them? It's a small step from sharing memories to shaping them. And memories are the window to one's personality, and one's most intimate wishes. Let alone any dirty secrets thus uncovered, perfect for blackmail.

Modifié par Lynata, 30 avril 2012 - 09:51 .

[Dead_Meat357]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Personally, I find the Asari and interesting species along with their culture and do not find them 'creepy'.

They are more human like than other species based on the ME series in that they can eat the same foods and that they wear human clothes/armor (If you remember back to ME 1, Liara could only wear human armor and none of the other species armor). Other things mentioned, such as Tali mentioning that at least Liara can eat their food on the Normandy (referring to human food).

Despite the discussion in the bar in Nos Astra between the human, salarian, and turian suggesting that Asari appears to be of other species depending on which race is viewing them, my feeling is that humans may see them as more their natural appearance than other species, especially considering that the turian in the group says something about the way the dancer was moving at one point that goes something like, "that made my legs hurt, and my legs were meant to bend like that". That also suggest the while they may look something like another species, they do not look exactly like a given race viewing them.

As far as their abilities are concerned, their society prevents abuse for the most part. They probably could wreck havoc on the galaxy, but seem more a passive society rather than aggressive. That could also be a part of their biological, psycological, and physiological makeup as well considering that other races are needed as they are mating purposes. If they were to use their abilities to subvert other species, it could likely eventually cause a similar problem like the Ardat Yatsi (sp?). So, it would not be in their best interest not to subvert other species. Besides, most species will cling to their own kind anyway, the Asari are an exception, not a rule.

If you listen to all the dialog,  one of the guys (I believe the Turian) refers to her belly button. When the Salarian asked what that was, he said it's the tiny spot / hole (I don't remember exactly what he said) that Asari and humans have in their abdomen and you'll be doing shots out of it later. The Salarian then asked if that was sanitary or something like that. So they seem to view them as they are, but as I said, they probably focus on the traits that are most important to them. The Asari seem to be built to be generally appealing to most species. Whether they have a universal appeal due to their physical appearance or pheremones, or both is a bit of a mystery. This may even work for humans with regard to how others regard their appearance as well. You see lots of Asari with them and many Asari in the series take a sexual or romantic interest in Shepard. Shiala, Morinth, Liara, and the Asari Consort just to name a few. Garrus and Thane can take an interest in FemShep as well. So it may simply be that the basic Human / Asari form just might be appealing to other species.