292 réponses à ce sujet

[Elyiia]

The whole situation isnt going to stop people making games with choice, other companies will be looking at the situation and realising the issues are mostly with the end and not the game itself.

[InsaneAzrael]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

The malicious intent of some consumers is what led to the events of today. ReTake can say they're civil all they want, but the non-civil and malicious ones are the people that are getting the most response. One can even say that they're the face of the movement. Based upon the trolling, floods and lawsuits, it's kind of hard to argue that they're not. I can sympathasize with the reasons why people wanted the endings changed, but the movement has gone too far.

Responsibility for claims made are solely the responsibility of claimants. This is normally implied, in some conditions it must be explicitly assured with the indemnity "This is the view of entity X, not of the supra-entity Y"

[Flextt]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Flextt wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Perspective: Wanting to strip people of their livelihoods because their game featured ten minutes of bad writing, which came after 100+ hours of good writing.

They made product. Product failed at certain area. This failure was so critical, it created a backlash. Consumers voice their dissatisfaction.

This is not people going after Bioware, this is consumers doing what is their job. You don't support bad business praticeses (day 1 DLC, false advertising, etc). Consumers can vote only trough two ways: Their wallet or trough feed back.

In this case, most of us are unable to vote by our wallets since we bought the game, experienced it and were betrayed. This, we vote trough feed back which has caused Amazon, a third party in this mess, to review the product because they feel consumer feed back is important. This feed back indicated massive negative reaction. If product is perceived negativly, it is pulled off the shelf, because there is no reason to keep it.

If you feel that we are actively going after jobs of the people at Bioware, realise that each time you make decision between two products, you are choosing which product/company you support. One loses a sale, which can mean job is lost.

The lawsuit attempts say otherwise.

Your point being? Malicious intent from some customers?

The malicious intent of some consumers is what led to the events of today. ReTake can say they're civil all they want, but the non-civil and malicious ones are the people that are getting the most response. One can even say that they're the face of the movement. Based upon the trolling, floods and lawsuits, it's kind of hard to argue that they're not. I can sympathasize with the reasons why people wanted the endings changed, but the movement has gone too far.

That is sadly true but since legislatives almost exclusively favors the rights of producers instead of customers, we are deprived of options. Given the amount of frustration and lack of options, some people might lash out seriously, even feeling pleasure as they senselessly review-bomb Bioware products. (Much to my grief.) I guess no one expected Retake to bear such great fruits like FullParagon, the cupcuke initiative or Childs Play, otherwise we might have been able to concentrate our efforts better.

[Mandemon]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Flextt wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Perspective: Wanting to strip people of their livelihoods because their game featured ten minutes of bad writing, which came after 100+ hours of good writing.

They made product. Product failed at certain area. This failure was so critical, it created a backlash. Consumers voice their dissatisfaction.

This is not people going after Bioware, this is consumers doing what is their job. You don't support bad business praticeses (day 1 DLC, false advertising, etc). Consumers can vote only trough two ways: Their wallet or trough feed back.

In this case, most of us are unable to vote by our wallets since we bought the game, experienced it and were betrayed. This, we vote trough feed back which has caused Amazon, a third party in this mess, to review the product because they feel consumer feed back is important. This feed back indicated massive negative reaction. If product is perceived negativly, it is pulled off the shelf, because there is no reason to keep it.

If you feel that we are actively going after jobs of the people at Bioware, realise that each time you make decision between two products, you are choosing which product/company you support. One loses a sale, which can mean job is lost.

The lawsuit attempts say otherwise.

Your point being? Malicious intent from some customers?

The malicious intent of some consumers is what led to the events of today. ReTake can say they're civil all they want, but the non-civil and malicious ones are the people that are getting the most response. One can even say that they're the face of the movement. Based upon the trolling, floods and lawsuits, it's kind of hard to argue that they're not. I can sympathasize with the reasons why people wanted the endings changed, but the movement has gone too far.

I shall repeat, what lawsuits? If you are answering to previous query,  no need to answer this one.

[seek37]

haha love amazon. but ya makes some ironic sense since me3 wasn't as advertised.

[AxisEvolve]

Blackmind1 wrote...
Downgrading a damn good product to this state, and laughing at Bioware while in their own forums, because of the last 5 minutes isn't necessary, either. In fact, it's damn disrespectful, and only a spoiled child would act the way this community does. Go figure.

It's pretty rude if you ask me.

Hmm... your signature is giving me conflicting vibes. I don't think it's very efficient for supporters of a new ending to use such divisive tones amongst each other. 

As for Amazon's actions, I'm not really sure on their motives or the actual purpose for this protocol. But I'm sure they have their reasons. If you want to blame anyone, blame them. Ultimately it was their decision, not a rabid fan's.

Also, the person never claimed to be laughing at Bioware. I interpreted it as them laughing at Amazon's unrealistic portrayal of the reception from the game and the overall "everything is cool" attitude. 

[HenchxNarf]

Elyiia wrote...

The whole situation isnt going to stop people making games with choice, other companies will be looking at the situation and realising the issues are mostly with the end and not the game itself.

I kind of agree. Or they'll just make it so that you, the player, have no say in anything they do. No more fan feedback. No more multiple endings. No more anything, really.

And this proves that BioWare shouldn't do anything. This is ridiculous.

People who did this aren't hurting anyone but themselves.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 01 avril 2012 - 11:04 .

[coolbeans]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Flextt wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Perspective: Wanting to strip people of their livelihoods because their game featured ten minutes of bad writing, which came after 100+ hours of good writing.

They made product. Product failed at certain area. This failure was so critical, it created a backlash. Consumers voice their dissatisfaction.

This is not people going after Bioware, this is consumers doing what is their job. You don't support bad business praticeses (day 1 DLC, false advertising, etc). Consumers can vote only trough two ways: Their wallet or trough feed back.

In this case, most of us are unable to vote by our wallets since we bought the game, experienced it and were betrayed. This, we vote trough feed back which has caused Amazon, a third party in this mess, to review the product because they feel consumer feed back is important. This feed back indicated massive negative reaction. If product is perceived negativly, it is pulled off the shelf, because there is no reason to keep it.

If you feel that we are actively going after jobs of the people at Bioware, realise that each time you make decision between two products, you are choosing which product/company you support. One loses a sale, which can mean job is lost.

The lawsuit attempts say otherwise.

Your point being? Malicious intent from some customers?

The malicious intent of some consumers is what led to the events of today. ReTake can say they're civil all they want, but the non-civil and malicious ones are the people that are getting the most response. One can even say that they're the face of the movement. Based upon the trolling, floods and lawsuits, it's kind of hard to argue that they're not. I can sympathasize with the reasons why people wanted the endings changed, but the movement has gone too far.

Wait, was there a lawsuit?

Or is someone misunderstanding what a FTC complaint is.

[HenchxNarf]

coolbeans wrote...

Wait, was there a lawsuit?

Or is someone misunderstanding what a FTC complaint is.

There was a lawsuit attempt and an FTC complaint. And BBB..

[Dridengx]

Narayan23 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Jagri wrote...

It would be a shame if the "Vocal Minority" put a company out of business. If anything EA is more then likely to do that themselves.

It's a shame these big kids don't understand. Now, you can say bye bye to choices, multiple endings, and other things in the future if this is how you people act. You think anyone will want to go through all this drama over giving a consumer more freedom? not worth it.

Whether you hurt Bioware or not with your 'movement' you actually hurt yourselves the most in the end.

What multiple endings are you talking about? The endins we have are only different because of the colour filter if you really consider that a strain on resources, if this is a good as it gets how is that different then just accepting one ending?

Do any of you who claim to enjoy stories ever listen to the story? just because the cut scene is almost the same doesn't mean the game ended the same for your character. your choices did matter, just because you can't use your imagination and fill the blanks doesn't mean there wasn't differences

[Mandemon]

HenchxNarf wrote...

coolbeans wrote...

Wait, was there a lawsuit?

Or is someone misunderstanding what a FTC complaint is.

There was a lawsuit attempt and an FTC complaint. And BBB..

Links? Proof? I know about FTC, but these two are unknow to me. Proof please?

Modifié par Mandemon, 01 avril 2012 - 11:09 .

[coolbeans]

HenchxNarf wrote...

coolbeans wrote...

Wait, was there a lawsuit?

Or is someone misunderstanding what a FTC complaint is.

There was a lawsuit attempt and an FTC complaint. And BBB..

Bet that got laughed out quick

-edit-

heard about the BBB and FTC, all fairly normal consumer practices, surprised I didnt hear anything about the lawsuit.

Modifié par coolbeans, 01 avril 2012 - 11:10 .

[Vromrig]

The whole situation isnt going to stop people making games with choice, other companies will be looking at the situation and realising the issues are mostly with the end and not the game itself.

I don't trust game companies any more after the ME 3 fiasco anyway.

This has even sullied my view of Bethesda.

Do any of you who claim to enjoy stories ever listen to the story? just
because the cut scene is almost the same doesn't mean the game ended the
same for your character. your choices did matter, just because you
can't use your imagination and fill the blanks doesn't mean there wasn't
differences

Sorry home slice, you're wrong.

Modifié par Vromrig, 01 avril 2012 - 11:10 .

[Ultra Prism]

Hah wow, The US version ... is getting review bombed to 2 stars for xbox version with over 800+ reviews

[Narayan23]

Dridengx wrote...

Narayan23 wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Jagri wrote...

It would be a shame if the "Vocal Minority" put a company out of business. If anything EA is more then likely to do that themselves.

It's a shame these big kids don't understand. Now, you can say bye bye to choices, multiple endings, and other things in the future if this is how you people act. You think anyone will want to go through all this drama over giving a consumer more freedom? not worth it.

Whether you hurt Bioware or not with your 'movement' you actually hurt yourselves the most in the end.

What multiple endings are you talking about? The endins we have are only different because of the colour filter if you really consider that a strain on resources, if this is a good as it gets how is that different then just accepting one ending?

Do any of you who claim to enjoy stories ever listen to the story? just because the cut scene is almost the same doesn't mean the game ended the same for your character. your choices did matter, just because you can't use your imagination and fill the blanks doesn't mean there wasn't differences

I understood what i was doing but you are claiming people will not be making different endings and i'm saying why the hell not.
If like you said the cut scene can be the same and i need to imagine the different endings then it will not be a huge strain on resources to make different endings you could make 50 endings and it would be no problem.
If they actually had bothered to make each ending self contained then you would have a point but not with ME 3

[Mandemon]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Mandemon: Yeah, I was referring to the FTC claim. The Child's Play stuff was great and the cupcakes were clever. But then there's stuff like this and the flooding and spamming of the Mass Effect Facebook page. Plus the aforementioned FTC claim. Sorry, I had the understanding it was a lawsuit. Based upon the tone of many, a lawsuit is not too far away though. There are many positive aspects of the movement, but they are being crushed under the weight of negativity. This is not going to end well for all involved, the fans who are fine with the way things are, the developers and the ReTakers. This will be a stain upon the image of the gaming industry. Too much negativity has been created because of it. The fragile image of gamers to the public has been shattered. That's my stance.

Okay, that explains it. Yup, FTC complaint isn't a lawsuit, best FTC can do is warn customers or keep eye on offending company. However, in this case, it is clear that since there is no clear line between "hype" and "advertising", they can't do anything and they are reluctant to make division unless there is overwhelming demand.

Also, some people might have asked for lwasuit but untill there is one, I woulod prefer is accusations would be kept at bay.

[Alamar2078]

Ultra Prism wrote...

Hah wow, The US version ... is getting review bombed to 2 stars for xbox version with over 800+ reviews

If consumers are giving the product the actual score they believe that it should get then I would not consider that action "review bombing" per-se.

Note:  I can see how a 2 star rating would be expected if the review was largely based on the statements BW made prelaunch vs. the customer's opinion on if or how those statements were fulfilled by the game delivered.  If the reviewer sincerely believes the game did not live up to the statements I don't see how it could get more than 2 stars out of that principle.

Devil's Advocate:  I think it's fair to say the people that are relatively new to the series [and aren't aware of BW's statements prelaunch] would get more enjoyment from the game than someone that had their expectations built up.  In that light I could see giving the game more than 2 stars certainly.

YMMV.

[MrNighttime]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Mandemon: Yeah, I was referring to the FTC claim. The Child's Play stuff was great and the cupcakes were clever. But then there's stuff like this and the flooding and spamming of the Mass Effect Facebook page. Plus the aforementioned FTC claim. Sorry, I had the understanding it was a lawsuit. Based upon the tone of many, a lawsuit is not too far away though. There are many positive aspects of the movement, but they are being crushed under the weight of negativity. This is not going to end well for all involved, the fans who are fine with the way things are, the developers and the ReTakers. This will be a stain upon the image of the gaming industry. Too much negativity has been created because of it. The fragile image of gamers to the public has been shattered. That's my stance.

So true, I think Bioware took a huge chnace with this  "ending" (I say "ending" since it seems more ME universe themed things are coming down the pipeline) I give them kudos for taking the risk---but I think it turned on them and I just don't see  how this can turn out well. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I doubt at this point that any alternate ending will Bioware will be willing to do is going to make this thing go quietly away.

[Sett101]

When your puppy takes a ME3 on your shoes do you hug it and give it a treat? Hell no you smack that lil sucker with a newspaper and deport him to his kennel for a while. Why do people think we have to be nicer to Bioware then to puppies? Puppies never even lied to us!!! Bioware didn't just drop a giant steaming pile of ME3 endings on us, they then bit our hands (Art/entitled/minority/a few/explain), and took off with a new pack (IGN/PE/etc). If you pet your puppy when he does bad things he will do more bad things. I'm just doing my part to make our puppy better.

[The_Crazy_Hand]

Torrible wrote...

Customer entitled to complain, boycott. Not entitled to sabotage. Review bombing =/= feedback. 

Oh it's feedback alright, it's what we really do think of the game.

[coolbeans]

Mandemon wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

@ Mandemon: Yeah, I was referring to the FTC claim. The Child's Play stuff was great and the cupcakes were clever. But then there's stuff like this and the flooding and spamming of the Mass Effect Facebook page. Plus the aforementioned FTC claim. Sorry, I had the understanding it was a lawsuit. Based upon the tone of many, a lawsuit is not too far away though. There are many positive aspects of the movement, but they are being crushed under the weight of negativity. This is not going to end well for all involved, the fans who are fine with the way things are, the developers and the ReTakers. This will be a stain upon the image of the gaming industry. Too much negativity has been created because of it. The fragile image of gamers to the public has been shattered. That's my stance.

Okay, that explains it. Yup, FTC complaint isn't a lawsuit, best FTC can do is warn customers or keep eye on offending company. However, in this case, it is clear that since there is no clear line between "hype" and "advertising", they can't do anything and they are reluctant to make division unless there is overwhelming demand.

Also, some people might have asked for lwasuit but untill there is one, I woulod prefer is accusations would be kept at bay.

Found the class action lawsuit, but buggered if I can get it linked, apparantly someone on BSN made a thread titled "Considering a class action lawsuit" and this was reported as "OMG RETAKE  SUES BIOWARE.

Its a bit depressing that some people believe legitimate consumers tools (FTC complaints, Advertising Standards etc..) to be "overkill" and akin to suing someone, companies must love these folk <_<

[my Aim is True]

Ouch. That has to hurt.
I bet Bioware reacted to that the way we reacted to the ending

[MrNighttime]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Ultra Prism wrote...

Hah wow, The US version ... is getting review bombed to 2 stars for xbox version with over 800+ reviews

If consumers are giving the product the actual score they believe that it should get then I would not consider that action "review bombing" per-se.

Note:  I can see how a 2 star rating would be expected if the review was largely based on the statements BW made prelaunch vs. the customer's opinion on if or how those statements were fulfilled by the game delivered.  If the reviewer sincerely believes the game did not live up to the statements I don't see how it could get more than 2 stars out of that principle.

Devil's Advocate:  I think it's fair to say the people that are relatively new to the series [and aren't aware of BW's statements prelaunch] would get more enjoyment from the game than someone that had their expectations built up.  In that light I could see giving the game more than 2 stars certainly.

YMMV.

What confuses me more is the people who say  "I hated the ending but I give the game 5 out of 5". It's like saying "That diner has great food that leavesan aweful aftertase in my mouth---I go there all the time." A 4 out of 5  I could get but how can you hate the ending and give prefect score? Hey, it's their review but I don't get it.

[coolbeans]

my Aim is True wrote...

Ouch. That has to hurt.
I bet Bioware reacted to that the way we reacted to the ending

Bioware could make a thread on here:

"Post your reaction to the Amazon reviews of ME3 using pictures"

Probably get a lot of use out of the ending pictures thread.