292 réponses à ce sujet

[humes spork]

vivaladricas wrote...

Nice to have civil discussions.  I do like to trash talk a bit, but its just messing around and me generally having a good time on the interwebz.  So I give Bioware and Hudson and Waltes not the kindest of words, but its just my style.  I honestly think overall people have been pretty civil about this and have gone about it the right way.  People get pissed off and reacting strong is understandable and expected, especially since no other game has this kind of emtional attachment to the characters.  Its not even a contest.  

I do feel it will turn a lot worse.  People get over stuff in time, and hopefully for people that want to continue there will be a ME4 and it will be superb for them.  I would come back to it if they redeem themselves, hell maybe they will shock me at PAX.  

Indeed. I have no illusions Hudson and Walters didn't feed the pooch the chocolate lollipop, but on the other hand I feel my voice as a consumer has been heard and my point made, and I'm unwilling to push my luck by continuing to mirthlessly rage until PAX. I understand how corporations operate all too well, and I personally feel the community is playing with fire; in the best case they're ignorant of that, and in the worst case they're not.

Overall I agree the immediate response was civil, direct, and poignant, but with people it's beginning to overstep the boundary of good taste and constructiveness. Of course, with it being the internet and all I freely ackwnowledge and understand it will get worse, which is an unfortunate reality. That bothers me personally, because I care about the game and the IP in general and want to see a positive outcome, the potential for which I believe is dwindling in the face of continued outrage and destructive actions by the community.

It's highly unfortunate we're in the position we are to begin with. I get that. People have a right to be angry. On the other hand, the goal needs to be improving the position rather than devolving it.

[TemplarLord]

Epic news. Can't say I really feel sorry for them, they brought this on themselves.

Hold the line!

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Modifié par GME_ThorianCreeper, 01 avril 2012 - 08:06 .

[vlherg]

humes spork wrote...

Keep in mind that while people are celebrating this kind of thing, it's also this kind of thing coupled with EA's very business strategies aforementioned celebrants call out that could, and at this point are likely, to cause this whole thing to colossally backfire in fans' faces. EA cuts its losses, cans or severely curbs future DLC and support, and prematurely closes doors and shuts the lights off on Mass Effect.

This is getting to the point "retakers" are jumping into the wood chipper nose-first to spite their face.

For many of us I doubt it could backfire. Speaking for myself (and I suspect more than a few others), without a new ending Mass Effect is already dead to us. We're not bothered about new DLC or patches because the current ending has completely killed the franchise for us. If EA close up the ME universe we're no worse off than we are now. If we keep the pressure on maybe we'll get what we want.

Of course we don't know why it has been suspended by Amazon. Maybe it's not ending related but a batch of faulty discs in which case the suspension is quite justified.

[humes spork]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

I can't believe the crap Bethesda pulls and gets off scot free from the community. They released Daggerfall for god's sake, which is somehow simultaneously one of the buggest PC releases in history with the exception of possibly Big Rigs; a filler-content-laden turd of random yet copy-pasted environments, towns and dungeons; and mind-bogglingly one of the best, most addictive, fun CRPG's ever made. It's like KFC, or having an abcessed tooth; you observe it and acknowledge there is only pain there, but you just can't stop because it's just that freaking good.

It's rather breathtaking, actually.

Modifié par humes spork, 01 avril 2012 - 08:20 .

[bro_9009]

humes spork wrote...
Overall I agree the immediate response was civil, direct, and poignant, but with people it's beginning to overstep the boundary of good taste and constructiveness. Of course, with it being the internet and all I freely ackwnowledge and understand it will get worse, which is an unfortunate reality. That bothers me personally, because I care about the game and the IP in general and want to see a positive outcome, the potential for which I believe is dwindling in the face of continued outrage and destructive actions by the community.

I don't think it is community raging as a whole, just a part of it and/or some individuals. Remember the news about FTC complaint being filed? Same deal here, not everyone from Retake supported that move, so there's a lot of opinions on these matters within the community. People are bound to express their opinion and dissatisfaction in different ways, so we shouldn't judge everyone by the actions of a few. There's always some people who would take it to the extreme (namecalling, flaming etc.), like some pro-enders calling us "not smart enough to comprehend", "entitled brats" etc., and anti-enders calling for people to be fired. It shouldn't stop civil discussion or undermine the efforts of the whole group.

My point was that it seems unjust to attribute some actions as done "by the community" and not just by individuals.

Modifié par bro_9009, 01 avril 2012 - 10:07 .

[D1ck1e]

Thi is directly related to Bioware's lack of communication skills.

They chose the PR approach, disatisfied customers acted accordingly.

If Bioware wanted a partner, or make a believer out of me, they needed to talk to me.

That being said, ball is still in their court.

[Denethar]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Developers have been abusing customers with DLC, and online passes and all sort of **** the past years. About time they realise it's still about making the buyer happy.

And Bioware was great, they're continuing their decline towards average. No one can survive too long on past glory.

[Vromrig]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Apt precedent being set.  Creator responsibility, accountability, important.

No free passes.

[Aerevane]

They brought this on themselves and while I feel this does not do justice to ME3, I still feel this resistance is justified. I'd prefer no information to false information. SWTOR was, in that regard, one of the better cases in how to treat a pre-release product.

Let's face it - I highly doubt what BioWare released was what they wanted it to be in the first place. They've had to cut so much content that the ending left players confused and in a downright state of anger. They should've pushed the release date further ahead.

[Dark_Caduceus]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

I have never seen fans of anything take such glee in hammering it into the dirt.

For real, I hated the ME3 endings and in many ways the direction the Mass Effect series went but how do you guys even call youselves "fans"?

[Nicky 192]

I can't say that i am really surprised at this. Its a sad fact but in today's day and age unfortunately money talks.The only way people can let themselves be heard is through playing the corporate game and voting with their wallets, if that's the only way to bring attention to the fact that they're dissatisfied its completely fair.

[cyric085]

awesome hope bioware getting wrecked even more

[Batarian_Army]

Made my week xD

[Caz Tirin]

magikbbg wrote...

Backlash has to be related to the fact that alot more younger folks are at a tipping point with almost everything in life. It's the "I'm mad as hell and Im not gonna take it anymore" age. You see alot more this with politics than say in the past 20 years. I think it's just a different gerneration and different mind set. Alot of people hate being treated like mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed ... Manure. And seems like people are ready to fight back when they're hoodwinked. At least that's te energy I notice especially around Internet savvy young people 18-35

Thank you.  THANK.  YOU.  I shouldn't have to feel amazed when I run across someone else that understands this; it shouldn't be that rare to see how things are.

As for some of the folks saying this is extreme, I entirely disagree.  If you go out to eat and order a steak with fries and green beans and they bring out a rotisserie chicken with mashed potatoes and carrots, would still consider it extreme to call the manager over and let them know your order was not what you expected?  Far too many people roll over and accept "minor screw ups" to the point that when a large one (like this) comes along, you have people saying "it's not a big deal".  *facepalm*

[Jayelle Janson]

It was all over the place that amazon.com were giving full refunds but I don't think UK amazon were doing the same, so the only way people can get their money back is to claim the product wasn't as advertised.

I'm not sure what's worse - that people use that as an excuse to get their money back or amazon let them get away with it.

[Harley_Dude]

There were 5 million copies supposedly shipped so this may be some legal way for Amazon to return unsold inventory and get their money back or negotiate some form of settlement. If you were a retailer you would not want to be stuck with inventory no one wants.

[KingKhan03]

haha damn how has it come to this.

[BadlyBrowned]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Game companies have been pushing the envelope of gamer tolerance for years now.

Games no longer go gold in a polished state and often require day one patches. Game companies have been flirting with just how much DLC they can sell to customers. From $5 armor packs to Day 1 DLC and even Game Ending DLCs (Look at Asura's Wrath) to the "booster packs" in multiplayer to no longer releasing mod tools. Games developers / publishers putting in everything and anything they can to prevent used games sales (required online accounts, day one dlc, etc). Game companies are and have been fliddling with consumer tolerance for a while now.

It was only a matter of time before the consumers snapped. 

[Caz Tirin]

Jayelle Janson wrote...

It was all over the place that amazon.com were giving full refunds but I don't think UK amazon were doing the same, so the only way people can get their money back is to claim the product wasn't as advertised.

I'm not sure what's worse - that people use that as an excuse to get their money back or amazon let them get away with it.

Or the fact that they truly did not get what was advertised.  Because regardless of where you bought ME3, you didn't get what you were told you were going to be getting. 

Have a quick perusal over this compilations of statements:
http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

[zsom]

humes spork wrote...
EA holds the pursestrings, and Muzyka as an exec VP can only go so far to shield the company. He still has a board of directors and shareholders to which he's accountable. The message by "retakers" should have been dampened and kept dampened until BW's April announcement(s), because an immoderate response at this point can indicate there's no salvaging the franchise and the best way to maintain the bottom line is to clear cut and run.

In which case, nobody wins. Not "retakers", not people who are on the fence, not even people who are happy with what they got and just want to see more. Certainly not BioWare nor EA, because future profitability at least on the basis of the ME franchise has been crippled beyond salvage.

You already see indicators of this: flagging ANN support and releases compared to launch week, no word on multiplayer balance fixes aside from server-side spreadsheet changes, no word on a content or bugfix patch, still no word on future DLC releases up to and including an ending fix patch. Post-release ME3 support has almost completely stalled in the last month, and that indicates something is going on behind the scenes that doesn't necessarily bode well for the fans.

Really, the question everyone should ask here, is whether they want to see the ME franchise and BW prosper, or burn. If you want to see it burn, please by all means continue but do not lay claim you're doing it to satisfy anything but your base urges and spite. If you actually want to see a positive outcome of all this, moderation and civility absolutely, positively cannot be compromised whatever the cost -- even if that means disavowing and condemning fellow "retakers" who take holding the line too far.

This, this and a 100 times this. It is just astonishing how supposedly mature grownups with at least some real life experience cannot see this very simple truth...

[Total Biscuit]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

I have never seen fans of anything take such glee in hammering it into the dirt.

For real, I hated the ME3 endings and in many ways the direction the Mass Effect series went but how do you guys even call youselves "fans"?

Some people lash out when they experience pain, even if, as is the case with ME3, it's emotional pain.

It's just the way people are. Doesn't mean they're not fans, infact the opposite, if anything. I mean it's a pretty fanatical reaction wouldn't you say? There'd be no reaction at all if they didn't care in the first place.

I don't share the reaction, but I'm not surprised by it. Just people being people.

[DESTRAUDO]

Denethar wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Developers have been abusing customers with DLC, and online passes and all sort of **** the past years. About time they realise it's still about making the buyer happy.

And Bioware was great, they're continuing their decline towards average. No one can survive too long on past glory.

Online passes are not an abuse of customers by the devs. They are a response to the massive loss of sales caused by the second hand game market. When shop X sells a second hand copy of a game, the company who created the game gets zip. When someone buys a second hand copy of a bioware game, they have not bought the game from bioware. Online passes allow the devs/publisher to get something out of second hand sales and to make it more attractive to buy new. New game = 60 . If second hand game =  45 and online code is 15, it makes more sense to buy new for the same price. In that situation the devs make 30 off the sale rather than just 15 off the online code.  

[Caz Tirin]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome
developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda
screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even
though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a
bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they
don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they
make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Setting a bad precedent?  So rolling over and accepting mediocrity and lies is setting a good one?  Why should we, the paychecks, not speak up when we are not given what we were told we would be?  Would you just accept your order being wrong at a restaraunt or would you speak to the manager when the waiter brushed you off?  That waiter might lose his job when you talk to the manager.  So why should we be accepting of this?

BadlyBrowned wrote...
Game companies have been pushing the envelope of gamer tolerance for years now.

There's also this fact.  I've watched game comanies become more and more dishonest and dishonorable over the past ten years.  DLC for content that should have been in the game at launch (not just Javik, other games as well), bugs that are just mind blowing in the severity, balance issues that even a four year old could see and fix.  I've been eagerly awaiting the day when gamers would stand up and and tell the developers, "Cut it out, or you can down in flames!"  If this fiasco sparks that, then I'll thank BioWare for their screw up in the long run.

[Hexley UK]

Kinda sad really, the ending is pathetic but the game in no way deserved all the 1 and 2 stars its getting.