292 réponses à ce sujet

[Torrible]

Total Biscuit wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

I have never seen fans of anything take such glee in hammering it into the dirt.

For real, I hated the ME3 endings and in many ways the direction the Mass Effect series went but how do you guys even call youselves "fans"?

Some people lash out when they experience pain, even if, as is the case with ME3, it's emotional pain.

It's just the way people are. Doesn't mean they're not fans, infact the opposite, if anything. I mean it's a pretty fanatical reaction wouldn't you say? There'd be no reaction at all if they didn't care in the first place.

I don't share the reaction, but I'm not surprised by it. Just people being people.

How would you know the people who cared and the people who are just plain vindictive are the same people? Can you read minds?

[Caz Tirin]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Denethar wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Developers have been abusing customers with DLC, and online passes and all sort of **** the past years. About time they realise it's still about making the buyer happy.

And Bioware was great, they're continuing their decline towards average. No one can survive too long on past glory.

Online passes are not an abuse of customers by the devs. They are a response to the massive loss of sales caused by the second hand game market. When shop X sells a second hand copy of a game, the company who created the game gets zip. When someone buys a second hand copy of a bioware game, they have not bought the game from bioware. Online passes allow the devs/publisher to get something out of second hand sales and to make it more attractive to buy new. New game = 60 . If second hand game =  45 and online code is 15, it makes more sense to buy new for the same price. In that situation the devs make 30 off the sale rather than just 15 off the online code.  

You realize that players wouldn't be as likely to sell their games if the games were worth keeping?  The entire indutstry has declined over the past ten years when compared to the advancements in the technology available.

[tiger-tron]

Hexley UK wrote...

Kinda sad really, the ending is pathetic but the game in no way deserved all the 1 and 2 stars its getting.

Agreed, the ending is HORRIBLE and has shaken my faith in Bioware's ability to finish what they started. HOWEVER, ME3 as a whole is excellent. They may have taken alot of things out that were in ME1 and 2, but as a Mass Effect game it is brilliant and theres no way I would return it just because of the ending. Its just childish. Fair enough, if you've completed it, were dissapointed and want to get rid of it, you should sell it on - not return a fautless product (in the physical sense) that you've spent hours/days using; or waste your time giving it a 1 star review or 1/10 score on Metacritic.

[Wrathra]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

If fans are unhappy, they have a right to complain. Developers don't get free passes because they are developers. 

They want our money, not our friendship.  These companies should be held to a high standard, and should release quality games. If they can no longer do that, then they should be out of business, regardless of what they used to be able to produce..

[Torrible]

I'd love to see these people partake in lengthy thoughtful discussions about the game (ending or otherwise) like what The Angry One often does but I highly doubt they will. Sure, post nothing but vitrio and vindictive glee = passionate fans. Sounds logical.

Modifié par Torrible, 01 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[Apatche69]

This made my day. Thanks OP

[Femlob]

Excellent news. Time to dust off an old saying: "You reap what you sow."

This whole industry is rotten to the core. Releasing broken or incomplete products, deceiving, lying to and criminalizing your customers - you can't f*ck people up the ass year after year and expect to get away with it. Sooner or later, the shitstorm you've created will catch up with you.

Modifié par Femlob, 01 avril 2012 - 09:02 .

[Jenonax]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

I have never seen fans of anything take such glee in hammering it into the dirt.

For real, I hated the ME3 endings and in many ways the direction the Mass Effect series went but how do you guys even call youselves "fans"?

consumer first, fan second.

Bioware delivered a sub par product, I reserve my consumer right to voice my concerns.  

It remains to be seen how well Bioware respond to this backlash, but if it turns out they can't take it then more fool them.

[Talogrungi]

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Erm? .. what precedent are you referring to?

'cos you just mentioned Bethesda in this very post, the same Bethesda that rejigged the Broken Steel DLC for Fallout 3 to allow the player to continue after the main quest. A change they made at fan request.

[Jayelle Janson]

Caz Tirin wrote...

Jayelle Janson wrote...

It was all over the place that amazon.com were giving full refunds but I don't think UK amazon were doing the same, so the only way people can get their money back is to claim the product wasn't as advertised.

I'm not sure what's worse - that people use that as an excuse to get their money back or amazon let them get away with it.

Or the fact that they truly did not get what was advertised.  Because regardless of where you bought ME3, you didn't get what you were told you were going to be getting. 

Have a quick perusal over this compilations of statements:
http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

I understand the arguments, I'm totally behind the retake movement, but i just get the feeling that people sending copies back to amazon is just because they see that they can get their money back, not as some sort of statement. 

Having said that I've just read the description on Amazon where the product description says "Experience a sci-fi epic with multiple endings determined by your choices and actions throughout the game" so I guess it would fall under the category of not being as the vendor described.

Modifié par Jayelle Janson, 01 avril 2012 - 09:04 .

[Caz Tirin]

tiger-tron wrote...

Hexley UK wrote...

Kinda sad really, the ending is pathetic but the game in no way deserved all the 1 and 2 stars its getting.

Agreed, the ending is HORRIBLE and has shaken my faith in Bioware's ability to finish what they started. HOWEVER, ME3 as a whole is excellent. They may have taken alot of things out that were in ME1 and 2, but as a Mass Effect game it is brilliant and theres no way I would return it just because of the ending. Its just childish. Fair enough, if you've completed it, were dissapointed and want to get rid of it, you should sell it on - not return a fautless product (in the physical sense) that you've spent hours/days using; or waste your time giving it a 1 star review or 1/10 score on Metacritic.

If you bought a washing machine that would trip the breaker in your house every single time it came to the spin cycle, would just shrug and say "well, it washed my clothes!"?  Just because 90% of the product is flawless (debatable about ME3, but not the point) doesn't justify that 10% being complete garbage and not what you were told it would be.

I'm seeing a lot of people in the past few pages that BioWare has to be drooling over.  You're showing them that "hey, you gave me an inferior product, but i'm ok with that!"

[Jarys]

Ladies, read the entire post. This isn't necessarily people being angry little kiddies, the reason was ITEM IS NOT AS DESCRIBED. Considering that ME3 was supposed to conclude the series, it didn't; so that is actually accurate. As bad as it may be for EA's bottom line, sometimes the best way to do so hurts others, live with it.

[Caz Tirin]

Jayelle Janson wrote...

Caz Tirin wrote...

Jayelle Janson wrote...

It was all over the place that amazon.com were giving full refunds but I don't think UK amazon were doing the same, so the only way people can get their money back is to claim the product wasn't as advertised.

I'm not sure what's worse - that people use that as an excuse to get their money back or amazon let them get away with it.

Or the fact that they truly did not get what was advertised.  Because regardless of where you bought ME3, you didn't get what you were told you were going to be getting. 

Have a quick perusal over this compilations of statements:
http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

I understand the arguments, I'm totally behind the retake movement, but i just get the feeling that people sending copies back to amazon is just because they see that they can get their money back, not as some sort of statement. 

Having said that I've just read the description on Amazon where the product description says "Experience a sci-fi epic with multiple endings determined by your choices and actions throughout the game" so I guess it would fall under the category of not being as the vendor described.

If there were a more productive avenue of making our voices heard about not taking the crap handed to us, I would be more skeptical of the returns.  But since this is the most effective way to "speak" to corporations and money-driven businesses, I fully support the people speaking with their wallets.  If I didn't enjoy MP as much as I do, I would likely return mine as well as a statement.

That being stated, however, I have no doubt there are a handful of people reutrning it just for monetary motivations.  But these are the same folks that would try that anyway, so... 

[DESTRAUDO]

Caz Tirin wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Denethar wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Developers have been abusing customers with DLC, and online passes and all sort of **** the past years. About time they realise it's still about making the buyer happy.

And Bioware was great, they're continuing their decline towards average. No one can survive too long on past glory.

Online passes are not an abuse of customers by the devs. They are a response to the massive loss of sales caused by the second hand game market. When shop X sells a second hand copy of a game, the company who created the game gets zip. When someone buys a second hand copy of a bioware game, they have not bought the game from bioware. Online passes allow the devs/publisher to get something out of second hand sales and to make it more attractive to buy new. New game = 60 . If second hand game =  45 and online code is 15, it makes more sense to buy new for the same price. In that situation the devs make 30 off the sale rather than just 15 off the online code.  

You realize that players wouldn't be as likely to sell their games if the games were worth keeping?  The entire indutstry has declined over the past ten years when compared to the advancements in the technology available.

Right, so the entire second hand game market exists because all modern games suck and old games are awesome. 

[Caz Tirin]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Caz Tirin wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Denethar wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Developers have been abusing customers with DLC, and online passes and all sort of **** the past years. About time they realise it's still about making the buyer happy.

And Bioware was great, they're continuing their decline towards average. No one can survive too long on past glory.

Online passes are not an abuse of customers by the devs. They are a response to the massive loss of sales caused by the second hand game market. When shop X sells a second hand copy of a game, the company who created the game gets zip. When someone buys a second hand copy of a bioware game, they have not bought the game from bioware. Online passes allow the devs/publisher to get something out of second hand sales and to make it more attractive to buy new. New game = 60 . If second hand game =  45 and online code is 15, it makes more sense to buy new for the same price. In that situation the devs make 30 off the sale rather than just 15 off the online code.  

You realize that players wouldn't be as likely to sell their games if the games were worth keeping?  The entire indutstry has declined over the past ten years when compared to the advancements in the technology available.

Right, so the entire second hand game market exists because all modern games suck and old games are awesome. 

Is that what I said?  Or did I say "players wouldn't be as likely to sell their games if the games were worth keeping"?

[Aulis Vaara]

Vromrig wrote...

Apt precedent being set.  Creator responsibility, accountability, important.

No free passes.

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

For real, I hated the ME3 endings and in many ways the direction the Mass Effect series went but how do you guys even call youselves "fans"?

Fan comes from fanatic. This is not a good trait to have, in my humble opinion. You should not have blind faith in anything, you should not follow any person/entity/ideology without question forever and ever. This is not the first thing that Bioware has screwed up, and it's definitely not the first thing EA has screwed up. You reap what you sow, as others have already said.

Hexley UK wrote...

Kinda sad really, the ending is pathetic but the game in no way deserved all the 1 and 2 stars its getting.

Yes, it does. The game was good while playing it, but what was promised was not delivered. And looking back objectively, you start to notice all the smaller storylines that were dropped from the game, and even some bigger ones. Mass Effect 3 did not end the story in the way that it should have: many plots were not resolved, choices didn't matter (just look at pseudo-Legion or the Rachni Queen), ...

[sydranark]

Fingertrip wrote...

CoolKid12. You've earned yourself a report. If you think it's justified to downgrade a product to this state, because you feel unsatisfied about the ending you recieved, which you probably for starters didn't comprehend, is just ridicilous. I suppose you go on about just everything in your life, giving it all 1/10 because you feel that the product was "poor", when there was just one nitpicky piece in reality.

Please, what's wrong with people when it comes to Mass Effect 3? 

They wanted feedback, so people are giving feedback. I'm too tired to argue about the issues and plot holes in the current ending; all  am saying is that customers have the right to speak out against a product. It can't be just one person who voted 1/10 and prevented further sales. You're honestly going to say that all of those people don't have the right to voice their opinions? Plus I don't know if you've noticed but there's been a movement for change here =/. People sent them red, green and blue cupcakes dude. It doesn't surprise me in the least bit that sales dropped because of bad feedback.

Maybe if bioware did a better job to address these issues instead of hiding behind a "we're listening, we promise" thread, then the fan reaction wouldn't be so dramatic. What's currently happening is what happens when any product gets bad reviews from customers: it gets pulled off the shelves. 

[Bourne Endeavor]

humes spork wrote...

In other words you just want to burn the house down out of spite. At least you're being honest about it, and I can respect that.

But with that said, "future DLC and support" is not exclusive of ending fix DLC (free or paid) or future bugfix and content patches. I urge to you consider that before building straw men.

While I understand your approach, people have reached a point of muddled desperation and frustration, to the extent many have resigned to the very fact if BioWare does not specifically address the endings soon, they would indeed pull Mass Effect into the fire with them. My personally stance is if they attempt scapegoat at PAX then they made their bed and can lie in it. What becomes of the Mass Effect or the company itself afterwards is not my concern.

Patience can only be held so long. This Amazon thing though does mean the pressure is mounting. So much for the supposed "vocal minority" argument.

[Torrible]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

humes spork wrote...

In other words you just want to burn the house down out of spite. At least you're being honest about it, and I can respect that.

But with that said, "future DLC and support" is not exclusive of ending fix DLC (free or paid) or future bugfix and content patches. I urge to you consider that before building straw men.

While I understand your approach, people have reached a point of muddled desperation and frustration, to the extent many have resigned to the very fact if BioWare does not specifically address the endings soon, they would indeed pull Mass Effect into the fire with them. My personally stance is if they attempt scapegoat at PAX then they made their bed and can lie in it. What becomes of the Mass Effect or the company itself afterwards is not my concern.

Patience can only be held so long. This Amazon thing though does mean the pressure is mounting. So much for the supposed "vocal minority" argument.

Is there such a thing as going too far in your book? If so, what is it?

[sistersafetypin]

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Caz Tirin wrote...

DESTRAUDO wrote...

Denethar wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Developers have been abusing customers with DLC, and online passes and all sort of **** the past years. About time they realise it's still about making the buyer happy.

And Bioware was great, they're continuing their decline towards average. No one can survive too long on past glory.

Online passes are not an abuse of customers by the devs. They are a response to the massive loss of sales caused by the second hand game market. When shop X sells a second hand copy of a game, the company who created the game gets zip. When someone buys a second hand copy of a bioware game, they have not bought the game from bioware. Online passes allow the devs/publisher to get something out of second hand sales and to make it more attractive to buy new. New game = 60 . If second hand game =  45 and online code is 15, it makes more sense to buy new for the same price. In that situation the devs make 30 off the sale rather than just 15 off the online code.  

You realize that players wouldn't be as likely to sell their games if the games were worth keeping?  The entire indutstry has declined over the past ten years when compared to the advancements in the technology available.

Right, so the entire second hand game market exists because all modern games suck and old games are awesome. 

No. It's because somee games simply aren't remarkable enough to keep after a few playthroughs. The Mass Effect series was one of those rare exceptions

[cg8900]

this is just stupid, they shouldn't do that

[Trishot]

Yea, I am still waiting on the part where my choices matter. And I would not get a traditional A,B or C ending.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Torrible wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

humes spork wrote...

In other words you just want to burn the house down out of spite. At least you're being honest about it, and I can respect that.

But with that said, "future DLC and support" is not exclusive of ending fix DLC (free or paid) or future bugfix and content patches. I urge to you consider that before building straw men.

While I understand your approach, people have reached a point of muddled desperation and frustration, to the extent many have resigned to the very fact if BioWare does not specifically address the endings soon, they would indeed pull Mass Effect into the fire with them. My personally stance is if they attempt scapegoat at PAX then they made their bed and can lie in it. What becomes of the Mass Effect or the company itself afterwards is not my concern.

Patience can only be held so long. This Amazon thing though does mean the pressure is mounting. So much for the supposed "vocal minority" argument.

Is there such a thing as going too far in your book? If so, what is it?

Depends on your definition. If the endings are not addressed properly, then I, and anyone else, have a right to exercise our complaints and/or abandon BioWare entirely. If they falter in the long haul, so be it. When businesses stray from their customer base, they risk backlash. Do I want BioWare to shutdown, no but I am not going to simply accept whatever they throw at me either.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 01 avril 2012 - 10:07 .

[XqctaX]

Vromrig wrote...

GME_ThorianCreeper wrote...

Way to ruin an awesome developer and bring them to their knees, its pathetic. Watch Bethesda screw up the next elder scrolls and all the fans hate them for it even though most of their other games were amazing.

This is setting a bad precedent. Now fans are going to complain about games when they don't like something and bring down good developers for any mistake they make.

I understand why you all hold the line, but this is to extreme.

Apt precedent being set.  Creator responsibility, accountability, important.

No free passes.

Agreed! Garrus support this message. <3:D"noindex, nofollow">
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