182 réponses à ce sujet

[-Sxx-]

Plerion wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Guns are fine. It's your skill as a player that is broken.

You sound intelligent.
Do the math.
Prove to me that these weapons are not obsolete. 

They aren't obsolete. If they were, you wouldn't see people using them. Even I was using Pred/Aven X way into my N7 350 times. It's totally down to personal preference, class, tactics and the players capabilities. With that combo on any class, except Infril, I usually ranked 1st or 2nd in most of my games.  It just goes to show that they aren't useless. 

Btw, the Carnifex is essentially the Scoped Magnum .44 of any modern FPS you find out there. Nothing wrong with it. Move on.

Modifié par Dest1ny, 02 avril 2012 - 12:12 .

[N7 Veteran]

It's quite amazing how poorly balanced multiplayer game's are these days. So disappointing that it's become about generating even more profits by catering to novices and poor internet connections. Then you have all the forum trolls who defend everything.

[Chrumpek]

To answer both above posters:

You not always take weapons JUST for damage, geth pulse rifle got tons of ammo and weights nothing, equip it with cry ammo, and sweet the whole field slowing//freezing enemies. When your biotic, you got biotic explosion to deal the damage, the rifle is used for support.

Now Raz, I didn't get yet the saber so can't talk about it, Arc pistol might be the one weapon I don't ever use, didn't even try to figure out it's purpose. Talon I do have and it is fun to use, I believe it shoots faster then Katana and does more damage. Might not be optimal but is still fun ~^

Also I am not trying to defend multiplayer balance or support Bioware for great patches, there are some **** weapons (arc pistol)but my point was that putting some weapons on that list of shame is just ridiculous.

Modifié par Chrumpek, 02 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[-Sxx-]

N7 Veteran wrote...

It's quite amazing how poorly balanced multiplayer game's are these days. So disappointing that it's become about generating even more profits by catering to novices and poor internet connections. Then you have all the forum trolls who defend everything.

I don't see how defending what you believe, as trolling. It's easy to say criticizing something, having your own opinion, is trolling on others who disagree. 

[RazRei]

Chrumpek wrote...
Now Raz, I didn't get yet the saber so can't talk about it, Arc pistol might be the one weapon I don't ever use, didn't even try to figure out it's purpose. Talon I do have and it is fun to use, I believe it shoots faster then Katana and does more damage. Might not be optimal but is still fun ~^

The Talon being as rare as its supposed to be could have 1 round in the chamber, have a long ass load time, does great amount of dmg close range, and light weight.  But as its now its a Taurus Judge and no one uses that thing seriously.

[Firesteel]

The other problem is that in SP, rapid fire weapons are a soldier's boon because of ammo powers. Here in MP, they are screwed over two fold because ammo powers are a) consumables and no where near as effective as their SP counterparts. Another thing is they could have been a great support power for soldiers (squad cryo anyone?) by making everyone's weapons better.

RazRei wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...
But this is not CoD for better or worse (hyhy), I still find most weapons usefull, depending on the current playstyle ofc ~^

I try to see the good in most weapons but I can't.  

Here's an example for you:

The Arc Pistol is consider a rare weapon in the game.  It is the only charge up for dmg pistol in the game.  Its also supposed to work like overload with a shock ability but......its damn heavy and does not on the field give you the same results as the Carnifex.

The N7 rare Talon....yeah enough said.

the M99 Saber - heavy, log dmg, low fire output for an N7 rare AR

I could go on but they really should do something about these underwhelming weapons in the game.

The weight system in MP is crap, especially for soldiers who have the same weight restrictions as other classes, despite them being completely equipment based. The rare guns should not be strictly better than the common ones, but they should all be able to provide excellent fire support or at least feel powerful. 

Another one you didn't mention is the revenant. It should be the most effective overall assault rifle in the game because of the weight restrictions on it, yet it is both horribly inaccurate unless specced right and does horrendous per bullet damage.

[Father Alvito]

Dest1ny wrote...

They aren't obsolete. If they were, you wouldn't see people using them.

Have you considered the possibility that some players don't understand the mechanics?

Chrumpek wrote...

To answer both above posters:

You not always take weapons JUST for damage, geth pulse rifle got tons of ammo and weights nothing, equip it with cry ammo, and sweet the whole field slowing//freezing enemies.

 

This might be true if you actually needed crowd control from your gun, ie: if you got zerged by a L4D-style horde and there weren't alternative, excellent sources of movement control (such as the stagger on biotic explosions and tech powers).

Since the game doesn't work that way, you don't need crowd control from your gun.  You need damage during Warp cooldowns and at those times when comboing isn't efficient, such as when you have a Pyro right in your face and need it stunlocked.

[MatyrGustav]

the infiltrators cloak damage boost is whats messing with the weapon balance IMO

[Gwinever]

the only thing that needs to be changed to make assault rifles viable again is removing the scope on the freaking pistols (seriously, don't know what the person who came up with that was smoking).

smg's aren't meant for dmg, they are meant to strip shields/barriers, wich they do very effectively.
there is nothing wrong with any off the shotguns, it just comes down to preferences, yes the (un)commen are weaker than the rare's but that's nothing surprising, what's the point off rare's iff they handle the same as a (un)commen.
same goes for the AR's, the only AR that truly sucks compared to the rest off the same rarity is the GPR.

[TexasToast712]

Father Alvito wrote...

Dest1ny wrote...

They aren't obsolete. If they were, you wouldn't see people using them.

Have you considered the possibility that some players don't understand the mechanics?

Have YOU considered that unlike you, most people DO understand the game mechanics and realize that every weapon is viable and fine?

[Firesteel]

Gwinever wrote...

the only thing that needs to be changed to make assault rifles viable again is removing the scope on the freaking pistols (seriously, don't know what the person who came up with that was smoking).

smg's aren't meant for dmg, they are meant to strip shields/barriers, wich they do very effectively.
there is nothing wrong with any off the shotguns, it just comes down to preferences, yes the (un)commen are weaker than the rare's but that's nothing surprising, what's the point off rare's iff they handle the same as a (un)commen.
same goes for the AR's, the only AR that truly sucks compared to the rest off the same rarity is the GPR.

The pistols suffer from the Halo 1 complex, plain and simple. I don't know what difficulty you're playing, but SMGs are not effective at very much on gold, especially seeing that overload/energy drain strips shields/barriers really quickly.
The other problem with pistols is that they are all better than the ARs, which is completely stupid. I understand the fun of making the god pistols, plus it gives caster classes a great weapon that meshes very well, but making the predator just as good as an avenger is incredibly stupid. I don't find scopes on any of the guns other than the snipers or the paladin/carnifex (for the Halo 1 nostalgia effect and awesome super-ultra-pocket-sniper rifle effect) usefull at all.

[Joyce_Esther]

drell adept with geth pulse rifle: strip the shields with gps+pull+reave= biotic explosions, I don't see why GPS is useless.
I use GPS II on gold.

[VirtualAlex]

You guys know that the guns aren't balanced on gold, and most likely the balance team or whatever doesn't care how the guns perform on gold? Like 2% of players play on gold.

I think the guns are fine. I use plenty of different guns including the avenger, the tempest, the hornet, and the Phalanx and do not mind them one bit. Even on gold.

All of the guns you listed as being viable on gold: Widow, Geth Shotty, Carnifex all are very heavy. With the exception of the Carnifex sometimes. So yes they are premium weapons but they come with the a cost. What is my engineer supposed to use? A widow/Geth shotty? Maybe he could, but I would rather power spam with a tempest. And I am fine with that.

[hezekiah957]

sindrie111 wrote...

I have promoted around 7-8 classes I have a 190 N7 rating so i'm not a newb

You do realize that's impossible, right? Each time you raise a character to 20 and promote, it's a total addition of 30 to your N7 rating. So the *least* you could be at is 210, assuming you're not quite mistaken about how many you've promoted. Which honestly, I think you are.

[TexasToast712]

Joyce_Esther wrote...

drell adept with geth pulse rifle: strip the shields with gps+pull+reave= biotic explosions, I don't see why GPS is useless.
I use GPS II on gold.

Some people pick up a weapon one time, get their ass handed to them, then blame the weapon as being bad to mask their poor skill.

[Genesis Notch]

Duh, not every weapon classes are meant to be used the same way.

Like some players have mentioned above, the weapons are tweaked in a way so that the gameplay would vary. ARs and SMGs would not and should not compete with SRs and Heavy Pistols in terms of damage; they are really good at crowrd control and inflicting statuses on adversaries.

If in a match everyone is using snipers or the same roles, yes it would be boring. That's why, play with your friends, discuss each role and the strategy. It will be much more fun!

Modifié par Genesis Notch, 02 avril 2012 - 12:43 .

[Gnarlesee]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Father Alvito wrote...

Dest1ny wrote...

They aren't obsolete. If they were, you wouldn't see people using them.

Have you considered the possibility that some players don't understand the mechanics?

Have YOU considered that unlike you, most people DO understand the game mechanics and realize that every weapon is viable and fine?

Stop trolling.

There is no way you can say that every weapon is viable in gold.

Equip a SMG, and ill take a black widow, and lets see who kills most, and more efficient.
You are just ignorant, stupid or trolling. Perhaps all 3 in some sense i guess.

Btw the dps is not all the important thing. The important thing is that semi weapons are more effective per shot, so they are way better in cover, where few shots turn into big damage, with minimal exposure.

Automatic weapons lets you be exposed for much longer if you want their full damage potential in.

[TexasToast712]

Gnarlesee wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Father Alvito wrote...

Dest1ny wrote...

They aren't obsolete. If they were, you wouldn't see people using them.

Have you considered the possibility that some players don't understand the mechanics?

Have YOU considered that unlike you, most people DO understand the game mechanics and realize that every weapon is viable and fine?

There is no way you can say that every weapon is viable in gold.

I just did. Problem?

You can take your precious Black Widow and I will still outscore you using only my fists.

[niko20]

Gnarlesee wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Father Alvito wrote...

Dest1ny wrote...

They aren't obsolete. If they were, you wouldn't see people using them.

Have you considered the possibility that some players don't understand the mechanics?

Have YOU considered that unlike you, most people DO understand the game mechanics and realize that every weapon is viable and fine?

Stop trolling.

There is no way you can say that every weapon is viable in gold.

Equip a SMG, and ill take a black widow, and lets see who kills most, and more efficient.
You are just ignorant, stupid or trolling. Perhaps all 3 in some sense i guess.

Btw the dps is not all the important thing. The important thing is that semi weapons are more effective per shot, so they are way better in cover, where few shots turn into big damage, with minimal exposure.

Automatic weapons lets you be exposed for much longer if you want their full damage potential in.

But wouldn't this argument STILL be true even if the damage of SMGS was buffed? They would still have a lower damage output than a Widow sniper rifle, I mean c'mon a sniper rifle will always out perform a SMG shot for shot, and if Gold strat is hunkering behind cover so you don't die well then the problem is NOT the weapon, it's that you have to cower behind cover so you DONT DIE. Hence requiring one shot high power weapons.

The difficulty of weapons on Gold in my opinion is *not* the weapons fault, it's that IT"S FREAKING GOLD.

-niko

Modifié par niko20, 02 avril 2012 - 01:01 .

[Choc]

Revenant doesn't belong on that list. It's the assault rifle of choice for Turian Soldiers, and for good reason.

[TexasToast712]

niko20 wrote...

Gnarlesee wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Father Alvito wrote...

Dest1ny wrote...

They aren't obsolete. If they were, you wouldn't see people using them.

Have you considered the possibility that some players don't understand the mechanics?

Have YOU considered that unlike you, most people DO understand the game mechanics and realize that every weapon is viable and fine?

Stop trolling.

There is no way you can say that every weapon is viable in gold.

Equip a SMG, and ill take a black widow, and lets see who kills most, and more efficient.
You are just ignorant, stupid or trolling. Perhaps all 3 in some sense i guess.

Btw the dps is not all the important thing. The important thing is that semi weapons are more effective per shot, so they are way better in cover, where few shots turn into big damage, with minimal exposure.

Automatic weapons lets you be exposed for much longer if you want their full damage potential in.

But wouldn't this argument STILL be true even if the damage of SMGS was buffed? They would still have a lower damage output than a Widow sniper rifle, I mean c'mon a sniper rifle will always out perform a SMG shot for shot, and if Gold strat is hunkering behind cover so you don't die well then the problem is NOT the weapon, it's that you have to cower behind cover so you DONT DIE. Hence requiring one shot high power weapons.

The difficulty of weapons on Gold in my opinion is *not* the weapons fault, it's that IT"S FREAKING GOLD.

-niko

Well said. People want everything to be equally viable on the hardest difficulty. That is like saying the AR in Halo should be a killing machine on Legendary. While viable, it isn't the smartest thing to use. The hardest difficulty is meant to challenge you to find the best strats/gear and use them wisely.

Everything is viable on Gold and in the rights hands, can outshine someone with his 1337 sniper.

[Gwinever]

Firesteel7 wrote...

Gwinever wrote...

the only thing that needs to be changed to make assault rifles viable again is removing the scope on the freaking pistols (seriously, don't know what the person who came up with that was smoking).

smg's aren't meant for dmg, they are meant to strip shields/barriers, wich they do very effectively.
there is nothing wrong with any off the shotguns, it just comes down to preferences, yes the (un)commen are weaker than the rare's but that's nothing surprising, what's the point off rare's iff they handle the same as a (un)commen.
same goes for the AR's, the only AR that truly sucks compared to the rest off the same rarity is the GPR.

The pistols suffer from the Halo 1 complex, plain and simple. I don't know what difficulty you're playing, but SMGs are not effective at very much on gold, especially seeing that overload/energy drain strips shields/barriers really quickly.
The other problem with pistols is that they are all better than the ARs, which is completely stupid. I understand the fun of making the god pistols, plus it gives caster classes a great weapon that meshes very well, but making the predator just as good as an avenger is incredibly stupid. I don't find scopes on any of the guns other than the snipers or the paladin/carnifex (for the Halo 1 nostalgia effect and awesome super-ultra-pocket-sniper rifle effect) usefull at all.

offcourse skills are better than guns, it's a RPG for christ's sake SMG's are good for stripping shields if your lacking any kind off shield stripping abilty and your teammates can be preoccupied on the other flank that assist you.
in rl pistols are better than AR's dmg wise
but in rl you can't equip a scope on a pistol and use it effectively, while modern AR's come basicly equiped with 1
the whole pistol scope thus makes AR's moot ingame

[thefiresidecat]

PirateT138 wrote...

I have a strong urge to curb stomp anyone that says nerf.

Rare weapons, especially higher tier ones (VIII, IX, and X) SHOULD be beastly, mouthbreathers.

Nothing needs nerfing, other weapons need buffing.

THIS! and Bioware did nerf the pistols recently. their encumbrance was made higher. 

[Sabbatine]

RazRei wrote...

Chrumpek wrote...
But this is not CoD for better or worse (hyhy), I still find most weapons usefull, depending on the current playstyle ofc ~^

I try to see the good in most weapons but I can't.  

Here's an example for you:

The Arc Pistol is consider a rare weapon in the game.  It is the only charge up for dmg pistol in the game.  Its also supposed to work like overload with a shock ability but......its damn heavy and does not on the field give you the same results as the Carnifex.

The N7 rare Talon....yeah enough said.

the M99 Saber - heavy, log dmg, low fire output for an N7 rare AR

I could go on but they really should do something about these underwhelming weapons in the game.

It's easy to be underwhelmed by weapons you do not know how to use.

The arc pistol is one of the heaviest pistols in the game (tied with scorpion and a few others) but it's not heavy enough to prevent you from getting 200% ability recharge.  I think the main issue with this thing is no one really knows what it's supposed to do or why its stats are listed as being so high.  I agree with you that this one is underwhelming, but its weight has nothing to do with why.

The Talon isn't underwhelming unless you try to use it like a carnifex.  Weapons function in different ways, measuring the quality of one pistol against the quality of another pistol is meaningless if they have fundamental differences... it's like comparing a carnifex to a scorpion:

"The carnifex sucks because it doesn't shoot grenades like the scorpion and it has no aoe potential."

I have seen a lot of people do extremely well with the saber on all difficulties... seems more like the assault rifle everyone wants, not underwhelming...

Obviously adjustments still need to be made for balance but most of those weapons are far from being  underwhelming.

Modifié par Sabbatine, 02 avril 2012 - 06:29 .