217 réponses à ce sujet

[Fenderbaum]

ZtalkerRM wrote...

The Squire wrote...

BioWare are already broken, EA did that for them.

That's how I felt about it too, the first weeks after the debacle called ME3.
However, my shelve is still full with games like Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Kotor and Jade Empire. Games that make me feel happy.

I then realised that when NN was released, there were some game-breaking bugs (certain story-loot not spawining on bosses) that were bad, but were adressed quickly by the dev team after community feedback. Same was true for JE: I have the PC edition, that was released after many pleas from the community. A gracious action, since pirating was already large at that time and there wouldn't be much profit in releasing it for PC.

But how good were they?....Really?

BG (wonderful games) were mainly developed and written by the former great Black Isle and used an exising IP

Neverwinter Nights has what is considered by many to be the worse SP story of a Bioware game, and let's be honest, the community kept that game alive with the MP (Was also Gaider's first full solo writing effort)...existing IP

KotoR....if it did not have the Star Wars license, again...really...how good would it have been?  Swishy lightsabers and a fun robot character mask a lot of problems within the game...existing IP

Jade Empire...(while I personally like the game), was Biowares 'first' fully independant and developed game...and it crashed big time in terms of sales...new IP

It hasn't really gotten much better has it?

Modifié par Fenderbaum, 03 avril 2012 - 12:49 .

[Cooymans]

Make:

Free ending dlc with at least 6 endings that aren't recolours and take your choices into account
They fire the people responsible for the endings and letting the face import bug into the game
Apologise for the large number of lies they've spouted about me3

Break:

Not doing all of the above

[Poleaxe]

Poleaxe wrote...

I used to be a fan of Bioware, now I am a consumer. Consumers make decisions on a per product basis.

Come to think of it, I think I stopped being a fan with DA2. I still haven't purchased Mark of the Assassin. That's the first game/add-on/dlc I haven't bought from BW since BG2. That's 12 years! Well, it was good run. 

[ZtalkerRM]

Fenderbaum wrote...
But how good were they?....Really?

BG (wonderful games) were mainly developed and written by the former great Black Isle and used an exising IP

Neverwinter Nights has what is considered by many to be the worse SP story of a Bioware game, and let's be honest, the community kept that game alive with the MP (Was also Gaider's first full solo writing effort)...existing IP

KotoR....if it did not have the Star Wars license, again...really...how good would it have been?  Swishy lightsabers and a fun robot character mask a lot of problems within the game...existing IP

Jade Empire...(while I personally like the game), was Biowares 'first' fully independant and developed game...and it crashed big time in terms of sales...new IP

It hasn't really gotten much better has it?

You make some valid points. And before TFU and recent CW cartoon, I was a big SW fanboy, so I'm not that objective when it comes to Kotor. Same goes for NN, I played that when I was alot younger, was my first 'big' rpg so that coulours my opinion too.

However, what all those games in comon is pure guts. Kotor was the first game that stepped away from the traditional 'top' view, instead going for a 3d person perspective. It basically shook the RPG-genre up quite a bit! They did create their own SW universe for that game though, using mid 90's comics for reference, instead of the movies. You could consider it an attempt at creating their own universe, using safe elements though. I think it was a first 'safe' try out to create a new universe, what they eventually did with ME.

I think Jade Empire was very ambitious and very good in retrospect. I realy liked the story, characters, weapons, styles, overall feel. The game was a bit more linear then I was used to, but it didn't do the game much harm. It's the first game to use Chinese mythology this way though, again a big risk they took. Most Europeans and Americans have no 'feel' for Chinese mythology, that's why I think the sales didn't go that well.

So far, I've liked every Bioware game, set for DA2 and ME3, because everything they did showed talent, inspiration and guts. They could've taken the safe route multiple times but didn't. Maybe that covers their flaws though, I understand what you're saying.

But I'm the kind of person that liked Alpha Protocol too, and that one had serious issues. Story wise (and how it was integrated with gameplay) was epic though.

[nycmode75]

I know what will make me happy - the day EA goes under

[Straw_foot]

Make: Fixing the ending
Break: Ignoring the ending, insulting our intelligence by saying we don't comprehend the ending

[aries1001]

I have said this before and I'd say it again: Free DLC to explain the ending and to clarify the ending. Preferably in a patch since patches are free. (a patch is just dlc as dlc just stands for downloanded content).

This, to me, would be only thing that maybe could give Bioware an edge here - from a business point of view. I've also pointed out that when even the Call of Duty players do not understand the ending, Bioware need to react. Since it is the CoD players and gamers that's going to keep Bioware afloat financially, the fans will make sure Bioware - and EA - get their investments back, but the profit will come from the CoD players.

Also, I think Bioware need to come clean and say flat out: "Yes, the game was rushed, we had to meet the release date in March 2012 for various reasons, and we know the ending didn't live up to our expecations either. But around april 13th-16th or so, we will make an announcement regarding the ending."

Also, Bioware needs to come cleam about whether or not Commander Shephard's story is over. Jessica Merizan says one thing, Casey Hudson says another, and posts by ordinary game ME3 developers tell a third story about this.

As for the questions asked in the OP, I don't know, but I do know - after watching the endings on youtube -that lots of people have lots of question to ask, especially on why the ghost in the machine needed to be there. Maybe Bioware had a certain vision in store for the ending, but just didn't have time to make it so that it design and communication wise became clear to the players what Bioware was/is trying to tell. The first order of business of communication - whether it be a presentation at school - or in a game is this: know what you want to tell your audience - and keep it simple.

If this is the case, Bioware need to come clean and say something like this: "We had a clear vision on how the game, ME3, should end, but because of time pressure and the release date in March 2012, we couldn't make the presentation of the ending in ME3 well enough so that it communicates our original vision of the ending in a clear way."

If I again compare with DA2, a month or two after game's release in March 2011, someone from Bioware said this - if you knew how to read both between and behind the lines. The ME3 team need to do the same, I find. The DA2 team is now communicating with the fans, may the ME3 team learn the samme lesson....

[ramnozack]

Make: Going with the Indoc theory as it is very intresting and makes sense. Also making a good amount of Side Quest DLC to make up for the fact the side quests in ME3 weren't as good as ME2's Sidequests.

Break: Doing absolutely nothing about the ending and keep shoving alternate appearence and OP Weapons DLC down our throats until the next Bioware game comes out.

[Dakota Strider]

Fenderbaum wrote...


But how good were they?....Really?

.......

Neverwinter Nights has what is considered by many to be the worse SP story of a Bioware game, and let's be honest, the community kept that game alive with the MP (Was also Gaider's first full solo writing effort)...existing IP

.....

I have to disagree with you on that point.  I thoroughly enjoyed the 1st and 3rd installments of the NwN solo campaign.  And from what I recall from the old Bioware forums, a large amount of other people did as well.  Even with that story, many of us thought Bioware messed up the ending, but they "fixed" it in the final chapter.

I do agree that the multi-player, with its player created modules gave NwN1 a life that carried the franchise for a long time.  But it was generally the rp amongst players that kept that alive, not that any modules actually told a better story than the Solo Campaign. 

*sigh*  Really wish Bioware had kept their partnership with Hasbro, or whoever was running the D&D franchise.  That partnership made far more sense than the joining with EA.

[Shelled]

Make: They change the ending into something that makes sense and where our choices actually matter, with free extended content.

Break: Anything other than what's mentioned above.

[mybudgee]

Make: import/bug patch released tomorrow, DLC announcement @ PAX that is a relief and exciting.
Break: apathy/more abysmal customer support, pandering to the lowest common denominator, deadlines & $ over quality, treating the ME series the way George Lucas treated the prequels...

[Terror_K]

It's already "break" for me for BioWare. Too many mistakes, too many lies and too much pandering to the casual, mainstream gamer. ME2 was a bruise, DA2 was a big blow, and ME3 was strike three for me. Even ignoring the endings, the game was just too much of a shooter and not enough of a roleplaying game. Yeah... I get it, you nailed the combat finally. Doesn't matter when I end up getting next to no choices, the game is as linear as a strand of spaghetti and my choices felt like window-dressing at best, with even worse trivialising, substituting and sweeping under the rug than ME2. Not to mention all the promises broken and the fact I can't help feel time, effort and money was squandered on things the game didn't even need like Kinect support and multiplayer.

Sorry, but BioWare are next to nothing to me now. In fact, they're on a worse boat than other developers, because I never expected better from other developers. They'll at least get a look in if the product looks interesting, while BioWare will only be noticed as a means of avoiding their games at the moment. Until they can either break away from EA or prove that they actually want to make RPGs for RPG fans again instead of just cinematic, story-driven action games like everybody else, and until they stop lying, pandering to the lowest common denominator and putting profit ahead of quality, I'm done with BioWare.

Modifié par Terror_K, 04 avril 2012 - 06:14 .

[Darth Krytie]

BioWare pretty much has me already...though, if they gave a good set of DLC and made future Mass Effect endeavours not MMOs, that'd be great. I do want a rereleased ME1 with updated graphics and the Kaidanmance for DudeShep put fully in. (Not just the file modding you can do if you own a PC version)...

What would break me? If they stop doing LGBT content. Not having to play as a straight, white male character is my favourite thing. So, if they started to force me to do that, I couldn't support it. As long as they're inclusive, me and BioWare are gold.

[sth128]

Make:
Bioware invents time travel, goes back in time and fix the game ending prior to release.

Break:
Everything else.

[Swimming Ferret]

The Squire wrote...

BioWare are already broken, EA did that for them.

THIS.

Honestly, first time I preorder a game and it turns out like this. I know I won't be doing that again in a hurry, or buying a Bioware game for that matter; I'll just borrow them from now on.

[Naoe]

Honestly I don't care that much... DIII is coming out in a few days, so I'll just turn my brain off and have some fun. If, by any chance, the ending mess is resolved by the time I'm done, I'll take note of that.

[PaxtonFetel]

I've never been a fan of Bioware.
Buyout is the only game I loved it Mass Effect because in childhood has long fascinated science fiction. I bought the licenses of both parts of the game from a sense of gratitude to the developers.
Now I got hit in the balls with a stupid ending in the style of magical fantasy. It stopped me from buying as there is gratitude, there is frustration and anger.

[DaJe]

Nothing, they are broken, gone, whatever you want to call it.

[Dezerte]

Make:
- New ending DLC
- Apologize for the whole "artisitic integrity" debacle
- Admit they made a mistake, everyone is human

Break:
- A simple "clarification" will not do for the ending, the DLC needs to either give us a new ending or if they want to keep what they have, go with the the IT.
- Continue to give the fans the silent/vauge treatment

Modifié par Dezman8, 04 avril 2012 - 07:33 .

[stysiaq]

I don't think anything can 'break' BioWare for me.

Horrible artistic decisions they made with DA2 and whole ME3 ending fiasco just lowered my (usually) high expectations from the company.

I alwayes expected 8+/10 or 9/10 games, now I just know it will be 6+/10 or a 7/10.

[Mara281]

Make: Add more war assets to SP so we can actually get ALL the endings without touching MP. New endings or if they keep the old ones let us have the option to NOT pick the 3 'starchild' solutions by letting us tell the starchild we'd rather fight even if we lose completely to the reapers, or being able to convince the starchild with charm/renegade to call off the reapers/shut them down to save the galaxy. Would prefer that the endings were redone, but that's asking a lot. Just give us additional options to what's already there, don't make those 3 the end all be all. And don't make the same mistakes with DA3 as ME3.

Break: Just 'explaining' the current endings. Not adding in enough content in the SP game to make ALL endings available without touching MP. Shafting the female players in the romance department in DA3.

DA3 still has my support for now, simply because I loved both DA:O and DA2. But I'm holding out hope that they won't make the same mistakes twice.

Modifié par Mara281, 04 avril 2012 - 07:24 .

[Nassegris]

Make: A new, worthy ending for a spectacular game series that didn’t deserve to go out with a whimper, but with a bang. I don’t even care if they acknowledge that they rushed the game, or if they fix the other issues (of which there are plenty) – I just want to ending seen to so that I can enjoy playing through it again. If IT turns out to be true, they could mend a lot of burned bridges by releasing it for free and acknowledging that they took it more than a bit too far.

Break: Already broken. I suppose it will break more if 1) IT turns out to be true and they all along had an ending they intended to release for further cash or 2) if ‘clarifications’ of the ending are all we’re ever given and it is otherwise left as it is, or 3) if nothing at all is done.