217 réponses à ce sujet

[Sanunes]

I really don't see why people are so attached to BioWare, I think they do make a good game, but every single one has had flaws. I try to read and understand the different arguments against Mass Effect 3, but besides the generality of "there is something wrong with the ending" its been all over the place to what needs to be improved, fixed, or replaced. So I really don't think BioWare could have made an ending ever that would have prevented this reaction to the game. For after finishing my first playthrough of Mass Effect 3, I went back and started the trilogy from the very beginning and I found major flaws in each Mass Effect game, but in each sequel BioWare tried to develop the game based on the very feedback we gave as a community, yes the changes angered and upset some, but those changes also pleased some people and kept the game franchise fresh, for I don't want BioWare to be like Bungie and make every game feel pretty much the same.

With all that said.

For me to buy another BioWare game: Continue to improve and listen to us.

For me not to buy another BioWare game: Ignore the feedback from the community.

[Darth Krytie]

Sanunes wrote...

I really don't see why people are so attached to BioWare, I think they do make a good game, but every single one has had flaws. I try to read and understand the different arguments against Mass Effect 3, but besides the generality of "there is something wrong with the ending" its been all over the place to what needs to be improved, fixed, or replaced. So I really don't think BioWare could have made an ending ever that would have prevented this reaction to the game. For after finishing my first playthrough of Mass Effect 3, I went back and started the trilogy from the very beginning and I found major flaws in each Mass Effect game, but in each sequel BioWare tried to develop the game based on the very feedback we gave as a community, yes the changes angered and upset some, but those changes also pleased some people and kept the game franchise fresh, for I don't want BioWare to be like Bungie and make every game feel pretty much the same.

With all that said.

For me to buy another BioWare game: Continue to improve and listen to us.

For me not to buy another BioWare game: Ignore the feedback from the community.

Every single game in existence has flaws, but the benefits of BioWare games are those I generally don't find elsewhere.

Though, I'd be curious as to what you actually mean by "listen to us" and "ignore feedback from the community" because, personally, I've seen a lot of feedback and some of it directly conflicts with one another. (Change the ending/don't change the ending) So, which feedback, in particular, do you mean? Also, in my experience, when people say "listen to feedback" they really mean "do this thing I want". Because BioWare can listen to you, disagree, and decide to do something else and still meet that critera.

[NickelToe]

Make:

Return to cutting edge gaming development as far as technology goes, they do not need more work in the story area and make cutscenes any better from a technology standpoint, they just need to keep them engaging like they are already good at. ME2 dumbed down for whatever reason and ME3 takes it further, no attempt to return to anything like ME1 and Innovate further from there which was not even complex for an RPG, it was just right for its time. Stop going back in time with games with old game play fuctionality, Dragon Age Origins and SWTOR. There is nothing new about these games when it comes to the way you play them between cutscenes. Cutscenes for the titles are good, but at some point you just want to play the game and see new functionality in its interaction.

Break:

Business as usual. Deny PC customers the customization our platform allows and is good at in the form of player created content for single player. If they continue down the micro-transaction line in hopes to hit players that are not "price sensitive" at the right time then I wont be party to it. If we ever have to pay for ammo in these games with real world currency then there is nothing they can do to get my business.

At this point Bioware lost my trust, so I will not be able to preorder their games any further. Any game that come out from now on will need to be checked over before I buy. I will wait till a friend has the game so I can watch/play it for myself at a buddies place or I will wait till the Bioware game has been out a while and has a lot of info on the web and dropped in price. This is my practice with EA games has worked out good. I buy less titles but none that I am unhappy with.

I hope Bioware turns things around.

[l7986]

Make
1.Sidemissions on Rannoch were you can build Tali a house.
2.A dlc so good this forum goes back to the days of telling talimancers to get out and that being the biggest argument here.
3.An explanation on what direction they were trying to go with in the endings because it feels like it was cut off when it should of gone on for another 5min or so and hopefully a dlc or patch but they are gonna do what they think is best.
Break
1.Bioware stops working with EA and merges with ubisoft. I feel dirty typing ubisoft.

Modifié par l7986, 04 avril 2012 - 08:23 .

[Farbautisonn]

aLucidMind wrote...

BioWare has already broken it for me. After the ending DLC (regardless of how good it is), BioWare is on my little black list. Any of their games that interest me will be bought used when they drop around $20. Sure, I'll stick around and give constructive criticism about the games but that is because I still care about what BioWare used to be. They have to prove to me that they're worth getting back the loyalty that I have for Ubisoft, Bethesda, and Rockstar (Assassin's Creed, GTA, Fallout, Elder Scrolls; all pre-order, definite day-one purchases).

It takes royally screwing up and the refusal to stand up and say "Yep, I did screw up, I did lie, and we certainly will fix it", not to mention actively insulting my intelligence, in order to ruin my loyalty and trust. It takes a lot and BioWare did all of that and more.

-Pretty much this.

How many of you would invest time and emotions in a  new ME trilogy if you knew that the end result would be the same, IE an end with no closure?  I wouldnt.

"Fixing" ME3 is next to impossible. Even if they scrap the endings, which they say they will not, people wont trust them to not do this again. And fixing the endings is going to cost a crapload of time, effort and money. To fix a product and an IP thats allready gutshot and bleeding out infront of our eyes.

So that leaves Bioware with DA3. However that will come under intense scrutiny, not only by the fans, but also from the companies, magazines etc that experienced a fan lashback not seen before in gaming history. The fans will be bad enough as some of us will pick any DA3 title apart with a toothpick looking for lore and logic inconsistencies, bad gameplay, bugs etc, but a DA3 title will be compared directly with Projekts "Witcher series", Bethesdas next installment in either FO or Elder scrollls, or any indie RPG title that might arise. And the "witcher" series rides piggyback on massive fan support and hype for doing things "right". So if I were a cynical marketer with a rival company, Id gun for a title release around the next DA title to put Bioware on the spot. Any title relased will not come under the same scrutiny and might actually get a free ride and free publicity when compared to DA3.

The issues Bioware has had lately has been plentyfull and not very fan-endearing. The DA2 situation, the bazaar bit for international clients, deception and now ME3. Winning back fans estranged is going to be a long and very hard battle. Time Bioware might not have, because EA bought Bioware to enhance and expand on their storytelling profile. Not to put it in the grave.

[PaxtonFetel]

A lot of good studios linking their fate with the rEApers disappeared. They pulled out all the money and thrown out.

Modifié par PaxtonFetel, 04 avril 2012 - 08:30 .

[TakezoDunmer2005]

Unfortunately, after reading/watching John Riccitiello's view on how/where he wants to take this company (EA, and everyone with them) I am no longer interested in BioWare anymore, only because they are no longer their own company, just a subsidiary of EA...So what EA says...Ultimately, goes...Now when/if BioWare breaks away from EA, well, that will be the day I'll finally be able to support them whole heartedly, as it stands I only support them as one would an old friend who has married an abusive, and possessive spouse...

Modifié par TakezoDunmer2005, 04 avril 2012 - 08:31 .

[Farbautisonn]

TakezoDunmer2005 wrote...

Unfortunately, after reading/watching John Riccitiello's view on how/where he wants to take this company (EA, and everyone with them) I am no longer interested in BioWare anymore, only because they are no longer their own company, just a subsidiary of EA...So what EA says...Ultimately, goes...Now when/if BioWare breaks away from EA, well, that will be the day I'll finally be able to support them whole heartedly, as it stands I only support them as one would an old friend who has married an abusive, and possessive spouse...

-Im sorry. At this stage there is only a couple of writers and a few devs at biowre that I would look for if they went indie. If Casey or mac went indie, Id avoid their products like the plague.

[Zolt51]

Domber121 wrote...

After the last few years some BioWare fans, like myself, might have lost some of their faith in the company. I'm not giving up on them but not sure just what to make of them either. I can't image I'm the only one in this state of mind so I'm asking the board what would break, make you give up on them, and what would make, completely restore your faith, BioWare for you right now.

For me...

Make
At least three solid DLC packs on pair with Shadow Broker but this time bring in the voice actors for teammate chatter. One of these DLC packs needs to address the ending in some way even if its not the main focus of that DLC pack. I realize a 4th ending or rewrite is probably out of the question but closure and context isn't and it's desperately both needed and wanted.

Break
Not fixing galactic readiness. People were told they didn't need to play multiplayer for the best ending many times but it turns out you cant get the needed 5000 without it. This is not a subjective problem like the endings and it needs to be fixed. If they can't stand by their word or even apologize then I can't be a fan anymore. And charging for this would be inaproprate to say the least.  Also no lackluster DLC packs that feel more like cheep addons than content on pair with the rest of the game. Kasumi is a good exsample of this. Her mission was good but her and Zaeed felt out of place in comparisoin to the rest of the team

The problem with doing DLC after the main game is that you just can't bring back all the voice actors. It's just not feasible, especially with some of the big names actors. You'll have dialogue with Shepard, plus whichever people play a central role in that plot, but having all the Normandy people chirp in is just not possible.

That's the one reason they did Javik on day 1 this time: so they could record him together with other team members and have him feel much better integrated.

[AndyXTheXGamer360]

Make: Fix Tali's face/put it in-game and actually on her.

Break: Not sure, the only thing that pissed me off was Tali's face.

[Nepp]

Zolt51 wrote...

That's the one reason they did Javik on day 1 this time: so they could record him together with other team members and have him feel much better integrated.

Thats not the reason.

The reason is money. Plus that content was on disc, and should of been in the game. Imho, it was purposly cut out of the game to be sold for more cash.

[AlanC9]

Nepp wrote...
The reason is money. Plus that content was on disc, and should of been in the game. Imho, it was purposly cut out of the game to be sold for more cash.

So you really think they hadn't planned for a day 1 paid DLC the whole time? Really?

[AlanC9]

Darth Krytie wrote...
Though, I'd be curious as to what you actually mean by "listen to us" and "ignore feedback from the community" because, personally, I've seen a lot of feedback and some of it directly conflicts with one another. (Change the ending/don't change the ending) So, which feedback, in particular, do you mean?

Hey, change/don't change isn't even the hard one. The hard one is figuring out what the folks who want a change are asking for.

[TakezoDunmer2005]

Farbautisonn wrote...

-Im sorry. At this stage there is only a couple of writers and a few devs at biowre that I would look for if they went indie. If Casey or mac went indie, Id avoid their products like the plague.

*Thinks on the surviving members of Interplay now at Obsidian*
Ahhh, there IS hope...

[MalevoIence]

Make- Dragon Age 3 which continues the story from endgame save of Dragon Age Origins/Awakening

Break- Them not doing this, I'm serious, Bioware, get on it........ that and if I ever found out they were doing an rts.... would make me a sad panda to find out they're following Halo's example of marketing

Modifié par MalevoIence, 04 avril 2012 - 09:41 .

[Rickin10]

Make - recall ME3, spend a year doing it properly and release it to all 'owners' for free. Plus an apology for all lies spouted.

Break - anything else

[Pedrak]

Break: if DA3 will be to DA2 what DA2 was to DAO.

Modifié par Pedrak, 04 avril 2012 - 09:49 .

[Lilaeth]

MalevoIence wrote...

Make- Dragon Age 3 which continues the story from endgame save of Dragon Age Origins/Awakening

Break- Them not doing this, I'm serious, Bioware, get on it........ that and if I ever found out they were doing an rts.... would make me a sad panda to find out they're following Halo's example of marketing

Yeah, that's about how I feel.  

[TheRealJayDee]

aLucidMind wrote...

It takes royally screwing up and the refusal to stand up and say "Yep, I did screw up, I did lie, and we certainly will fix it", not to mention actively insulting my intelligence, in order to ruin my loyalty and trust. It takes a lot and BioWare did all of that and more.

This. DA2 was the first game ever I preorderd, ME3 was definitely the last (Bioware/EA game). DA2 was a massive disappointment, and ME3 has it's share of problems besides the endings, but it really is Bioware's unbelievable "PR" that makes me lose most of my respect for and any trust in them.

[J0HNL3I]

the make or break for me is how DA3 turns out

[LeBurns]

Make or Break?

Well I will buy the ME2 Ultimate edition if it ever comes out. Sorry but I just can't stand being nickle and dimed to death on DLC's and am willing to wait. In the time I'm waiting and playing that, I get to see what becomes of ME3. If the DLC's do not help complete the game and/or get canceled (like DA2's, I guess that game will never be complete) then my ME2U will be the last BioWarEA purchase I make.

[Dakota Strider]

I really loved Bioware's Baldur's Gate and NwN series, as my game preference was the D&D based games.  DA Origins was great, considering they could no longer use the D&D rules, and had to invent an entirely new universe on their own.  Probably their best work.  DA Awakening, seemed very uninspired, but it was at least using the DAO engine, and it was not hyped to be "the next great game".  I just viewed it as an extended DLC.

Then came DA 2.  Had potential with the story, but did not like the fact I was locked into being a "Hawke" with only a couple variations of class.  That meant every time I replayed the game, I would get almost the exact same conversations and choices.  And of course anyone that played the game remembers the constantly repeating scenery, with little variation.   The combat had "evolved" from tactical, to arcade style shooter/button mashing.  It was definitely a letdown from DAO, but it I was still giving Bioware a pass, figuring that they would improve on their mistakes. 

Then came ME3.  I had never played any of Bioware's other SciFi titles before, but I had been convinced that I would like this one.  I will trust everyone else that ME1 and ME2 were great games.  However, except for a few specific chapters, for the most part ME3 felt rushed.  The plot, as well as any combat, felt like you were going down a one-way tunnel, with no side passages, or alternate ways to reach the end.  No matter what "choices" I was given, I felt that the result would have been exactly the same if I had chosen the other option.  (And only having 2 options, after being spoiled in DAO with multiple options in almost every conversation was very disappointing.)  It seemed like the developers put less time into the Battle to Retake Earth, than they did to produce the trailer that they used on the television commercials.  And when the final charge against Harbinger Death Ray started, and I lost almost all control of Shepard, I knew the ending was going to be a farce.  Things kept getting worse at that point.  Coming from a swords and sorcery background, where deities are expected to occassionally meddle, you would never expect a god to come down as heavy handed to affect the fate of the universe, as the Reaper God Child did at the ending of ME3.  In the last 10-15 minutes of the game, plotholes the size of craters were created one after another.

And to add insult to injury, interviews with top Bioware spokespeople, from less than a year ago, show that what ended up happening in ME3, was exactly the thing they said they were going to avoid, since they knew the fans did not want this.  social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10927975/1
So now fans complain, as Bioware knew they would.  So instead of apologizing, and saying that their budget ran out, or they had to meet a deadline, they instead condemn the fans for being "entitled whiners", and say it was their artistic integrity to make the game the way they wanted it.

So in a very long-winded way, that is what broke Bioware for me.

I am a glutton for punishment though, I will wait for DA3 to make my final decision.  However, until then, Bioware will not receive another dollar from me, in purchases of DLC for any of their games.  I will not pre-order DA3.  I will not pay the price they charge at its release,  but will wait a few months until it drops in price.  Bioware has lost my loyalty to the point, that I will not support them financially in that way, as I have done in the past.  After I play DA3, and judge for myself that they have returned to their old RPG formula, where Roleplay decisions matter, where the story is driven by the character, and not cinematic cutscenes, and where combats no longer felt like I was stuck in an arcade game from the 1990's, only then will decide if Bioware has regained its sanity, and deserves the support that I used to give it.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 04 avril 2012 - 03:26 .

[Shadowwot]

I thought Mass Effect 3 was the best game I have played since Mass Effect 2; sure I would have done a lot of things in ME3 differently - but I think that about every game I play. I thought BioWare did a superb job on almost everything in the game, especially the combat improvements made over ME 1 and 2.

[HermanGunther]

Bad endings to ME3, PAX East in 2 days, take a good guess.