240 réponses à ce sujet

[Mavaras]

Fliprot wrote...

Jesus got all that from Horus and Mithra,among other pagan sons of gods, anyway.

Most of what you know about Jesus was taken from other divines in other to ease the transition of pagans into christianism. So.. No.

Lol. I think we can still compare the composite of these traits and feats though, and for ease of doing so, refer to them as Jesus.

[Fliprot]

Mavaras wrote...

Fliprot wrote...

Jesus got all that from Horus and Mithra,among other pagan sons of gods, anyway.

Most of what you know about Jesus was taken from other divines in other to ease the transition of pagans into christianism. So.. No.

Lol. I think we can still compare the composite of these traits and feats though, and for ease of doing so, refer to them as Jesus.

You are correct. Just saying.

[Lmaoboat]

SwobyJ wrote...


I'm sorry - I just find it hard to deal with people taking things 100% literally. It's like someone said "Shepard is Jesus and Mass Effect is Christianity".

Um, no? NO one is saying that. Read.

Anyway, ranting now.

Really? Because the impression that I'm getting from some people is that they think every work of fiction was written by C.S. Lewis.

[Mavaras]

Fliprot wrote...

Mavaras wrote...

Fliprot wrote...

Jesus got all that from Horus and Mithra,among other pagan sons of gods, anyway.

Most of what you know about Jesus was taken from other divines in other to ease the transition of pagans into christianism. So.. No.

Lol. I think we can still compare the composite of these traits and feats though, and for ease of doing so, refer to them as Jesus.

You are correct. Just saying.

Hehe yeah. I appreciated your candor =)

Modifié par Mavaras, 02 avril 2012 - 12:48 .

[Apathy1989]

Fliprot wrote...

Jesus got all that from Horus and Mithra,among other pagan sons of gods, anyway.

Most of what you know about Jesus was taken from other divines in other to ease the transition of pagans into christianism. So.. No.

lolwut

Neither of those deities have much in common with Jesus, even on the most superficial level.

The Matrix did a symbolic link to Jesus, although again extremely loose with more basis on names than actions. Mass Effect has almost nothing in common.


Anyway hope this thread gets locked, its just going to turn into a big religious flame war (if it hasn't already).

[GimmeDaGun]

I am a roman catholic, religious person and I can assure you that Shep has nothing to do with Jesus. It would make no sense at the first place. I'm not the kind who likes to make a public debates about these things (in forums, esp. a gaming forum) and preach (I hate that, and I just can't stand religious preachers), but I try to explain it in short:

There's only one very slight relation there: the motif of selfsacrafice. But Shep's sacrafice is actually not a real sacrafice, because he doesn't have a choice but to "kill himself" or give his life in order to achive a certain goal, He didn't want to die, and was quite vocal about it. He's aim was to kill\\stop\\drive the reapers away with minimal sacrafices and the personal intention to see the other side, whereas Jesus (and now here I don't intend to force anything and assume that the reader is a non believer) as the Messiah, son of God had the choice of denial and running away or using his godly power to prevent his death on the cross. He did not, he stood up and took up the wheight of the cross for the redemption of all people, even those who betrayed or killed him. So there's a huge difference there.

But, yes, Bioware's aim was to make Shepard some kind of space-messiah who sacrafices himself for all living beings, whatever. It is very forced and bleeds in many ways. I it is very unmess affecty, if it makes sense. And looks very, very forced and therefor it does not make any sense.

So, no.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 02 avril 2012 - 01:12 .

[daisekihan]

Now that this discussion appears to be more about religion itself then the game, I suggest it be locked down.

Modifié par daisekihan, 02 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[GimmeDaGun]

daisekihan wrote...

Now that this topic appears to be more about religion itself then the game, I suggest it be locked down.

Mods will do that, if they judge it that way. I don't find it a bad topic, as long as it has sth. to do with ME3's ending's "symbolism" and until it becomes a whole religious vs. non-religious (holier than thou) hypocratic s.storm. The question of the OP was a just one, I think. 

[daisekihan]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

daisekihan wrote...

Now that this topic appears to be more about religion itself then the game, I suggest it be locked down.

Mods will do that, if they judge it that way. I don't find it a bad topic, as long as it has sth. to do with ME3's ending's "symbolism" and until it becomes a whole religious vs. non-religious (holier than thou) hypocratic s.storm. The question of the OP was a just one, I think. 

Yes, I agree the OP did no wrong. But the conversation appears to be trending away from the game.

[Bob3terd]

no, not everything is related to religion

[nevar00]

Well, with the scene on Gilligan's Planet, it's possible.

I'd really like to think not, but seeing as they were so intent on making an "artsy" ending, I suppose it's only fitting that they'd shove some ham-handed religious metaphors into the finale.

[withneelandi]

SwobyJ wrote...

Majical wrote...

Seriously No, and I do take offense to even the thought of this.

Your offence doesn't matter to the writers' ideas.

Again, Shepard is NOT Jesus. And symbolic doesn't have to mean 'identical to the story of'.

You have to be carefull that when you spot a connection between a fictional character and something else, you are not impossing your world view on the text. Heres an example of when that can lead you down a bit of a dead end.

When I was in first year of university we were looking at Gothic Horror, Jekyl and Hyde and in particular, one eager student put their hand up and suggested that the name "Hyde" could be an alusion to the theories of Freud. "Hyde" becomes "He id", the id is the part of us that acts according to the pleasure principle, just like Hyde. The symbolism seems clear.

It all falls a part until you remember that the term "id" wasn't used by freud until about 30 years AFTER Stevenson wrote The Strange case of Doctor Jekyl and Mister Hyde.

I think the a lot of the posts here are guilty of doing the same, spotting a possible link but not quite thinking it through all the way. It is easy to spot superficial similarities but it is much harder to fully develop that into a theory that actually tells us something about the text.

[Pelle6666]

Yes. I'm afraid so. It is so obvious that it hurts. Even the name.... F*ck! I hate it more and more for every second I think about it. Not because I feel that it is a bad thing to include religious symbolism, I can overlook that but the way that they make him die on the crucible... the cross... It is just insulting to us all.

[daisekihan]

Well, if the discussion is back on topic: if nothing else, the reference to "the Shepard" relates to Christianity. The Gospels are full of stories where Jesus compares himself to a shepherd. And if you think about it, what Shep does in ME3 is a lot like what a shepherd does --- he gathered together the scattered flock of sentient organics, and when attacked he laid down his life for his flock.

[withneelandi]

The Shepard reference is a tribute to this bloke....

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Alan_Shepard

If Shepard going round the galaxy is buliding an army (Lets say that again, army) is like what Jesus did in the Bible then the Warden from Da:O was also like Jesus.

Did I miss the bit in the Bible where Jesus united the people of the middle east into a masive army and chased the romans back to Italy?

This is a pretty hilarious example of people desperately searching for vague simalarities between two "characters" (I use the word character for ease of explanation) and ignoring the massive, massive differences.

Yes, on the surface there are some basic links between the two, but when you actually think them through it makes no sense.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here, You can make an argument that Shepard is an allusion to Genghis Khan.

Khan, like Shepard a great military leader, united the tribes into a coherant military force, solving political disputes, he was tolerant of different religeons as Shep is of the ME equivilent, Alien races.

Like Shepard at the end of Me3 he is almost a legendary figure, like Shepard accrding to the epilogue many of the details of his like are lost.

And living at the time he did as part of a nomadic tribe Khan was almost certainly .... a shepard (of sorts).

Again, the point of this is not that Bioware were referencing Genghis Khan when they wrote Shepard, but that you can make the sort of links people have made here between any heroic figure.

[daisekihan]

withneelandi wrote...

The Shepard reference is a tribute to this bloke....

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Alan_Shepard

If Shepard going round the galaxy is buliding an army (Lets say that again, army) is like what Jesus did in the Bible then the Warden from Da:O was also like Jesus.

Did I miss the bit in the Bible where Jesus united the people of the middle east into a masive army and chased the romans back to Italy?

This is a pretty hilarious example of people desperately searching for vague simalarities between two "characters" (I use the word character for ease of explanation) and ignoring the massive, massive differences.

Yes, on the surface there are some basic links between the two, but when you actually think them through it makes no sense.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here, You can make an argument that Shepard is an allusion to Genghis Khan.

Khan, like Shepard a great military leader, united the tribes into a coherant military force, solving political disputes, he was tolerant of different religeons as Shep is of the ME equivilent, Alien races.

Like Shepard at the end of Me3 he is almost a legendary figure, like Shepard accrding to the epilogue many of the details of his like are lost.

And living at the time he did as part of a nomadic tribe Khan was almost certainly .... a shepard (of sorts).

Again, the point of this is not that Bioware were referencing Genghis Khan when they wrote Shepard, but that you can make the sort of links people have made here between any heroic figure.

Christ-figures are a common motif in literature. It doesn't mean there's a one to one correspondence, just certain similarities. And yes, quite frankly, the name Shepard is loaded with conotations of Christ. Then here's the fact that in pretty much every ending, he willingly sacrifices himself to save the world.

Again, I'm not saying its exact, but just the fact that he sacrifices himself to save others makes him a quasi-Christ figure, whether BW intended it or not (which they probably did).