240 réponses à ce sujet

[Kanon777]

RenownedRyan wrote...

None of this changes anything.  What about the many things that make the Shepard character very different than Jesus?  He is stubborn and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.  He kills countless people throughout the series, something that Jesus would never have advocated.  Matthew 5:39-"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."  The ultimate way to disprove this theory is pointing out that Casey Hudson stated that Shepard is named after Alan Shepard.

I would say that Jesus is a parallel to Horus.

Who said the paralels need to be perfect? Its very wierd how you cant see the obvious paraleles the developers tried to make. That dosent mean they need to copy EVERY thing about the bible or Jesus, but you really think "Lazaraus project", "We are Legion", and "tell me more about The Sheppard" are just coincidences?

You really need to take some classes in literature...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But Shepard has had visions and is the only one who has had them, and only those who have touched Shepard's mind have seen them. Also Saren had them, and got the cipher from the Thorian through Shiala who also saw them. Those are the only ones who have seen the visions. The rest either believe Shepard or do not.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a cult following, but as Miranda mentions to TIM is that Shepard is an icon, a symbol to humanity and the rest of the galaxy, and they'll follow her/him. And they do. Hence project Lazarus to bring back Shepard from the dead.

Okay... so now Shepard died. We've been playing the "resurrected" Shepard, and so now at the end Shepard must return to the kingdom of the dead again because her/his task is completed and does so on the Crucible, and has gone from the living into a legend. Hence the story about "The Shepard" at the end. Can I do a facepalm here?

[Controller_B]

If I had to give all the Shepards something in common. Shepard is an ubermensch.

[alx119]

The Angry One wrote...

Jesus rejected Satan's temptation.
Shepard accepted it.

Booyah, and the Angry scores again.

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

For Mass Effect's sake, I dearly hope not.

[RenownedRyan]

tobito113 wrote...

RenownedRyan wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

I love how the anti-christianity people will keep trying to deny the obvious paralels. Lazarus project, "tell me another story about The Sheppard" line, the self sacrifice theme... Its pretty obvious they borrowed many themes from christianity in this series...

Because Jesus Christ is the only man/character in history to have sacrificed himself, right?  The Lazarus Project is an allusion to Lazarus, a man that Jesus purportedly raised from the dead.  As Shepard does not rebuild himself, this would make Miranda Lawson a Jesus parallel in your logic.  

Of all legends of sacrifice, the christian one is by far the most known. And i dont see quotes of any other religion being used in the series, so i suspect they wanted to draw paralels with christianity. Is it really that complicated to see?

(About the Lazarus story) No one said the paralels are perfect but the simple fact that the word was used is an obvious paralel the developers are trying to make, its funny how hard is it for you guys to see it.

This is not a parallel.  It is an allusion.  Allusion-a brief reference, explicit or indirect, to a person, place or event, or to another literary work or passage.  There are countless allusions throughout the Mass Effect series.  Here's an example.  The Nordic imagining of Heaven, or Asgard.  There is also Tyr, the Nordic son of God   There are LOKI Mechs, an allusion to the Nordic god of mischief.  What about the Hades Cannon?  An allusion to the Greek god of death.  The Attican Beta has two clusters, Hercules and Theseus.  Both mythical Greek heroes.

A parallel would be if Shepard walked into a cave and resurrected someone.  If Shepard turned water into wine.  Gave a sermon on a mountain.  Those are parallels.  These are allusions.  

[Kanon777]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

But Shepard has had visions and is the only one who has had them, and only those who have touched Shepard's mind have seen them. Also Saren had them, and got the cipher from the Thorian through Shiala who also saw them. Those are the only ones who have seen the visions. The rest either believe Shepard or do not.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a cult following, but as Miranda mentions to TIM is that Shepard is an icon, a symbol to humanity and the rest of the galaxy, and they'll follow her/him. And they do. Hence project Lazarus to bring back Shepard from the dead.

Okay... so now Shepard died. We've been playing the "resurrected" Shepard, and so now at the end Shepard must return to the kingdom of the dead again because her/his task is completed and does so on the Crucible, and has gone from the living into a legend. Hence the story about "The Shepard" at the end. Can I do a facepalm here?

Is it hard to stop thinking in extremes? or you have to deny the obvious paralels otherwise every plot element in series has to have some biblical conotation?

There is a middle ground between, "ME borrows nothing from religion" and "ME is a reteling of christianity in space"  

[Lmaoboat]

tobito113 wrote...

RenownedRyan wrote...

None of this changes anything.  What about the many things that make the Shepard character very different than Jesus?  He is stubborn and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.  He kills countless people throughout the series, something that Jesus would never have advocated.  Matthew 5:39-"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."  The ultimate way to disprove this theory is pointing out that Casey Hudson stated that Shepard is named after Alan Shepard.

I would say that Jesus is a parallel to Horus.

Who said the paralels need to be perfect? Its very wierd how you cant see the obvious paraleles the developers tried to make. That dosent mean they need to copy EVERY thing about the bible or Jesus, but you really think "Lazaraus project", "We are Legion", and "tell me more about The Sheppard" are just coincidences?

You really need to take some classes in literature...

Having biblical references isn't the same thing as some hackneyed Jesus = Shepard drivel.

[zimm2142]

Would fit with Bioware being anti-semitic.

[RenownedRyan]

tobito113 wrote...

RenownedRyan wrote...

None of this changes anything.  What about the many things that make the Shepard character very different than Jesus?  He is stubborn and willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.  He kills countless people throughout the series, something that Jesus would never have advocated.  Matthew 5:39-"But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."  The ultimate way to disprove this theory is pointing out that Casey Hudson stated that Shepard is named after Alan Shepard.

I would say that Jesus is a parallel to Horus.

Who said the paralels need to be perfect? Its very wierd how you cant see the obvious paraleles the developers tried to make. That dosent mean they need to copy EVERY thing about the bible or Jesus, but you really think "Lazaraus project", "We are Legion", and "tell me more about The Sheppard" are just coincidences?

You really need to take some classes in literature...

I have read the entire Bible twice.  I didn't call those coincidences, I called them allusions.  But, since you don't understand the difference between a parallel and an allusion I doubt that does any good.  You can't even spell the word shepherd correctly.  Yeah, I'm the one who needs to take classes in literature.

[Kanon777]

RenownedRyan wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

RenownedRyan wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

I love how the anti-christianity people will keep trying to deny the obvious paralels. Lazarus project, "tell me another story about The Sheppard" line, the self sacrifice theme... Its pretty obvious they borrowed many themes from christianity in this series...

Because Jesus Christ is the only man/character in history to have sacrificed himself, right?  The Lazarus Project is an allusion to Lazarus, a man that Jesus purportedly raised from the dead.  As Shepard does not rebuild himself, this would make Miranda Lawson a Jesus parallel in your logic.  

Of all legends of sacrifice, the christian one is by far the most known. And i dont see quotes of any other religion being used in the series, so i suspect they wanted to draw paralels with christianity. Is it really that complicated to see?

(About the Lazarus story) No one said the paralels are perfect but the simple fact that the word was used is an obvious paralel the developers are trying to make, its funny how hard is it for you guys to see it.

This is not a parallel.  It is an allusion.  Allusion-a brief reference, explicit or indirect, to a person, place or event, or to another literary work or passage.  There are countless allusions throughout the Mass Effect series.  Here's an example.  The Nordic imagining of Heaven, or Asgard.  There is also Tyr, the Nordic son of God   There are LOKI Mechs, an allusion to the Nordic god of mischief.  What about the Hades Cannon?  An allusion to the Greek god of death.  The Attican Beta has two clusters, Hercules and Theseus.  Both mythical Greek heroes.

A parallel would be if Shepard walked into a cave and resurrected someone.  If Shepard turned water into wine.  Gave a sermon on a mountain.  Those are parallels.  These are allusions.  

Yeah because random names of wepons is just as important as basic elements of the plot (Lazarus project, We are Legion, The Shepard). I could say the nordic gods references are allusions, but the christian references are obvious paralels (the greek ones are a comon way to name astrological bodies) 

[Hermit_UK]

The real question is "What would Space Jesus do? Pick red, green, or blue?"

[Controller_B]

tobito113 wrote...

Controller_B wrote...

I see no real biblical allusions in Mass Effect. Shepard makes a sacrifice, but that's wholly separate from Shepard needing to be the sacrifice. Lot's of people in Mass Effect make sacrifices. Shepard isn't really any more special than any of them.

I mean you can make a shallow analysis fit anything. Moses frees people from a cycle of enslavement and shepards them to a paradise that he himself never sees. But like I said, that's shallow. Shepard isn't Moses either. Shepard isn't a savior figure or a prophet.

-Lazarus project (ressurection of the main character)
-"We are legion" (said by the main antagonist) 
-tell me more about "The Sheppard"

Sure, no biblical allusions, lol...

Alright, let me fix the sentence for you:

"I see no real biblical allusions in Mass Effect related to Shepard"

I'll remember to spell everything out for the context-clue impaired next time.

[Fenrisfil]

Fairly sure it's not just Catholics that believe in Jesus. But anyway, it did cross my mind too and I really hope that's not the case. After the LOST finale I really don't need another sci-fi giving up on all science based explanations and resorting to religious dogma instead.

[Nicky 192]

When Jesus was tempted in the desert he said get thee behind me Satan and rejected it. Shepard cut a deal so no.

[ninjaNumber1]

Fenrisfil wrote...

Fairly sure it's not just Catholics that believe in Jesus. But anyway, it did cross my mind too and I really hope that's not the case. After the LOST finale I really don't need another sci-fi giving up on all science based explanations and resorting to religious dogma instead.

Well, not everything can be explained using Science for sure.... at the VERY LEAST Science it-self would have to be explained by other means than Science or it would just be an exercise in circular logic.....

[stysiaq]

Moreover, if Shepard is Jesus, is that making Gospel of st. Vakarian canon?

[Verethele]

No.

[DxWill103]

Shepard doesn't represent Jesus specifically, but he does represent the heroic qualities a messiah typically has

[stysiaq]

Also, can I assume that N7 stands for Nazareth 7 (Jesus address?)

[Hospitallar]

People keep saying metaphor, I think a better term is parallel. (12 squad members parallel 12 disciples, imperfect messianic/sacrifice themes parallel Gospel story, etc etc etc)

And yes, there are Biblical references in ME, but there are also references to other things. (Ardat-Yakshi reference to vampires, Morinth escapes on the Demeter which was the name of the ship Dracula escaped on in the original book)

But I think that's as far as they go, references and parallels.

[RenownedRyan]

Controller_B wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Controller_B wrote...

I see no real biblical allusions in Mass Effect. Shepard makes a sacrifice, but that's wholly separate from Shepard needing to be the sacrifice. Lot's of people in Mass Effect make sacrifices. Shepard isn't really any more special than any of them.

I mean you can make a shallow analysis fit anything. Moses frees people from a cycle of enslavement and shepards them to a paradise that he himself never sees. But like I said, that's shallow. Shepard isn't Moses either. Shepard isn't a savior figure or a prophet.

-Lazarus project (ressurection of the main character)
-"We are legion" (said by the main antagonist) 
-tell me more about "The Sheppard"

Sure, no biblical allusions, lol...

Alright, let me fix the sentence for you:

"I see no real biblical allusions in Mass Effect related to Shepard"

I'll remember to spell everything out for the context-clue impaired next time.

Don't bother with this guy.  He's made up his mind to believe that Shepard is Space Jesus and that if he isn't this somehow constitutes an insult to Christianity at large. 

[Kanon777]

RenownedRyan wrote...

Controller_B wrote...

tobito113 wrote...

Controller_B wrote...

I see no real biblical allusions in Mass Effect. Shepard makes a sacrifice, but that's wholly separate from Shepard needing to be the sacrifice. Lot's of people in Mass Effect make sacrifices. Shepard isn't really any more special than any of them.

I mean you can make a shallow analysis fit anything. Moses frees people from a cycle of enslavement and shepards them to a paradise that he himself never sees. But like I said, that's shallow. Shepard isn't Moses either. Shepard isn't a savior figure or a prophet.

-Lazarus project (ressurection of the main character)
-"We are legion" (said by the main antagonist) 
-tell me more about "The Sheppard"

Sure, no biblical allusions, lol...

Alright, let me fix the sentence for you:

"I see no real biblical allusions in Mass Effect related to Shepard"

I'll remember to spell everything out for the context-clue impaired next time.

Don't bother with this guy.  He's made up his mind to believe that Shepard is Space Jesus and that if he isn't this somehow constitutes an insult to Christianity at large. 

Sure, dismiss someone because you cant see the obvious references, and paralels, i wont bother with you guys since youre clearly delusional if you cant see it...

I never said shep is space jesus, i said there are obvious paraleles, not that they are carbon copy of eachother. 

[AlexMBrennan]

The resurrection and name ("Shepard") didn't give you a hint? Of course it's cyber Jesus.

[Mad-Max90]

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a developer took heavy references from the bible, and It won't be the last, wether you believe in god or don't, there's no arguing that the bible has some of the most fascinating stories. Now to people hating on christianity, please stop, I don't go around hating on atheists or any other religion, why? Simply because it's rude, and I have no reason to make fun of somebody else's religion or lack of one. Even if you aren't a Christian, saying there are no similarities among the two is a tad bit stubborn, seeing as they make references to a lot of major religions through out the series.
BSN, is honestly one of the most intolerant (towards religion) forums I visit, it's one thing to disagree, it's another to insult somebody's religion