240 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

No, Neo is.

[Lmaoboat]

Jafryn wrote...

Yes.

They call him "The Shepard" in that last scene, just in case the (attempted) allegory was too subtle for some people. They also had the Adam/Eve allegory at the end as well.

They called him "The Shepard" in a hamfisted attempt to show he's become some legendary storybook type figure, like his story was passed down orally through the generations, instead of having the because apparently there's no Extranet anymore.

tobito113 wrote...

withneelandi wrote...

You can do this with pretty much much any major character in a epic story.

Just to prove how easy it is, lets take Darth Vader, this as far as I'm concerned is as convincing a case for Jesus Darth Vader as the OP makes for jesus Shepard.

Vader, aka Anakin Skywalker comes from a humble background in a sandy sandy land (Tattoine or however you spell it). Jesus Comes from a humble background in a sandly land (The middle east).



Both Jesus and Darth Vader were born of "virgin births".

Both die and come back to life (Anakin is reborn as darth vader)

Both are tempted by the darkside, but ultimately reject it (it just takes Vader a few films to do it)

And both ultimately sarifice themselve to save the world.

Now, lets be clear Darth Vader IS NOT supposed to be a jesus figure, its just an exercise in showing how easily you can make these sort of connections if you are looking for them.

Cant you see how George Lucas wanted to make a paralel with vader story and jesus? I'm sorry but its pretty obvious that he did all of that cant be a coincidence...

Are you kidding me? The point of that post was to show how you could make virtually any character who does something heroic into some allegory for Jesus. Do you suffer from some sort of Jesus-specific Apophenia?

[AtlasMickey]

The Jesus myth has many many similarities to other ancient myths and if Shepard appears to share some of those similarities, it would just be another in a very long line stretching back to prehistory,

[Nuchy]

Lmaoboat wrote...

Jafryn wrote...

Yes.

They call him "The Shepard" in that last scene, just in case the (attempted) allegory was too subtle for some people. They also had the Adam/Eve allegory at the end as well.

They called him "The Shepard" in a hamfisted attempt to show he's become some legendary storybook type figure, like his story was passed down orally through the generations, instead of having the because apparently there's no Extranet anymore.

tobito113 wrote...

withneelandi wrote...

You can do this with pretty much much any major character in a epic story.

Just to prove how easy it is, lets take Darth Vader, this as far as I'm concerned is as convincing a case for Jesus Darth Vader as the OP makes for jesus Shepard.

Vader, aka Anakin Skywalker comes from a humble background in a sandy sandy land (Tattoine or however you spell it). Jesus Comes from a humble background in a sandly land (The middle east).



Both Jesus and Darth Vader were born of "virgin births".

Both die and come back to life (Anakin is reborn as darth vader)

Both are tempted by the darkside, but ultimately reject it (it just takes Vader a few films to do it)

And both ultimately sarifice themselve to save the world.

Now, lets be clear Darth Vader IS NOT supposed to be a jesus figure, its just an exercise in showing how easily you can make these sort of connections if you are looking for them.

Cant you see how George Lucas wanted to make a paralel with vader story and jesus? I'm sorry but its pretty obvious that he did all of that cant be a coincidence...

Are you kidding me? The point of that post was to show how you could make virtually any character who does something heroic into some allegory for Jesus. Do you suffer from some sort of Jesus-specific Apophenia?

Its symbolic dude, cant you get that?

[KingNothing125]

Not until they decided to turn the ME3 ending into a creation myth with Joker and EDI as Adam and Eve.

[Controller_B]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a developer took heavy references from the bible, and It won't be the last, wether you believe in god or don't, there's no arguing that the bible has some of the most fascinating stories. Now to people hating on christianity, please stop, I don't go around hating on atheists or any other religion, why? Simply because it's rude, and I have no reason to make fun of somebody else's religion or lack of one. Even if you aren't a Christian, saying there are no similarities among the two is a tad bit stubborn, seeing as they make references to a lot of major religions through out the series.
BSN, is honestly one of the most intolerant (towards religion) forums I visit, it's one thing to disagree, it's another to insult somebody's religion

Cerberus is the guardian of the underworld and allows Shepard to rejoin the land of the living... but ain't nobody running around treating Mass Effect as some Greek tragedy. And that's way better than some simple word play involving the name Lazarus.

To me it's not that anyone is against Christianity... it's just that people in any sort of majority (in this case, christians) aren't used to dealing with points of view that challenge the idea that what they are isn't the center of the world.

[withneelandi]

I love that my attempt to show that by twisting the facts and ignoring important details you can paint most major heroic figures as Christian allegory is now being held up as evidence that George Lucas was writing a modern Christian fable.


Point well and truly missed.

I very much get symbolism, I've studied literature to quite a high level that's why I it's easy to make up theories like that.

I can do it with pretty much anyone you want, The Doctor, Batman, Hamlet, I'm guessing I could even do it with classical characters that pre-date the writing of the bible. It's just about understanding how heroic characters work with the help of Mr Prop.

[cutegigi]

I never make any connection... until the ending... the freaking ending..........
1. forced to sacrifice his life to "save" others. in a crucible no less. with no other way to avoid this. (just like jesus can not avoid being crucified)
2. freaking adam and eve reference.

I suspect somebody really intentionally want to sneak the whole jesus thing in the story as a noble cause to save all ME gamer and point them the way to salvation.
Like narnia....

yes yes...lots of speculation from everyone. also ...SPACE MAGIC !!

[SirCrimz]

When I think of Shepard I only think of him being a herder of all things (comrades, civilizations, war assets, and even model ships...) and nothing more.

[DJBare]

And there I thought Shepard was a soldier doing his/her duty as a soldier, but meh, what do I know.

Modifié par DJBare, 02 avril 2012 - 09:17 .

[weltraumhamster89]

The Angry One wrote...

Jesus rejected Satan's temptation.
Shepard accepted it.

!!

[KingKhan03]

Cocaine is a hell of a drug. Also No.

[ScriptDiver]

 Interesting point of view. But still. 

The Angry One wrote...

Jesus rejected Satan's temptation.
Shepard accepted it.

This. QFT

[Devils-DIVISION]

Both Jesus and Shepard had disciples who ditched them in the last second.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

As a Evangelical Christian who isn't afraid at all to share his faith, even I find this comparison annoying.

[mokbass87]

Jesus was crucified like countless other back then who claimed they spoke with god,he just happened to convince enough people to believe in him to follow him and convince them to write about him after he was gone.

My idea of Shepard,a person tying to do what he/she believes is right in desperate times,simple as that.

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

Western society is firmly rooted in Christianity. Thus it is not surprising to have the archetype of a hero in a tale to reflect Jesus

Had the story been written by the Chinese, Shepard would have seemed like Lei Feng or some other Confucian hero.

[IronVanguard]

Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory?

[Majical]

Seriously No, and I do take offense to even the thought of this.

[Devils-DIVISION]

IronVanguard wrote...

Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory?

Jesus is in a magical theme park - that we're told is so awesome because you get to praise a god for eternity.
A god who will ever resign his office.

Replace "God" with "dictator", and you have what North Koreans are experiencing everyday. At least in North Korea you can die.

[Nimrodell]

Jesus and Horus/Osiris are archetypes for Shepard - especially with parts that show bringing new order to the world (New Testament comparing to Old - new rules apply, new rules in relationship between world/mortals and universe/infinity). Shepard starts as bringer of the 'new truth' same as Jesus. S/he is doubted and questioned by others, same as Jesus, small group of 'believers' for both (12 disciples), self-sacrifice that brings new order - new set of things - new point of view. I'm not bringing in resurrection with Jesus comparison, 'cause Shepard's second life is actually more drawn from Osiris type of resurrection and Lazarus one - and Shepard as Jesus, stands on fields of Armageddon in his/her Second coming. Archetypes are there - was it intentional or these archetypes are well embedded into our own collective consciousness, I don't know, that's something that writers themselves need to answer, but all elements are there. Even Jesus temptation is there in Shepard's temptation while working with Cerberus. According to gospels of Matthew and Luke, Jesus had to endure temptations provided by Devil himself. Even each point of Devil's temptation can be compared with Shepard's own temptation. The only difference so far is final minutes of Shepard's life - while crucified Jesus will express doubt in his Father's grand plan by saying - My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?, Shepard won't question and doubt higher being's, Catalyst's grand plan. But yes, Jesus is archetype in so many points.

[crimsontotem]

My shep is a down to earth atheist... why Jesus? With my obsrtvation he can be Che, Gandhi or Henry VIII... im getting tired of these biblical references