240 réponses à ce sujet

[Devils-DIVISION]

Shep is nothing like Gandhi. Shep would never allow someone to die just so he remains true to an immoral philosophy of non-violence. If someone messes with my Liara, they will pay!

[Nimrodell]

crimsontotem wrote...

My shep is a down to earth atheist... why Jesus? With my obsrtvation he can be Che, Gandhi or Henry VIII... im getting tired of these biblical references

Archetype is not the thing you think it is - it's story mechanic in motivations - Jesus archetype, or Osiris archetype doesn't mean anything religious and New Testament has its own archetypes in older myths and stories. For instance, it can be safely said that Prometheus' character is archetype for Shepard in many points - his love for humanity even though gods don't share his point of view, readiness to pay the ultimate price (and that one is nasty for immortal titan like Prometheus is), and will to bring the better change for humanity by unconventional and forbidden means (theft of fire). So, Jesus being an archetype for Shepard is nothing that can be tied to religious hysteria nor with being religious - it's the way how western world comprehend usually what being hero means - just take a look at Beowulf, king Arthur or even Sigurd/Sigfried - they can be also considered partial archetypes for contemporary understanding on how to make a proper hero/anti-hero. But so far, Jesus archetype is the one that is actually corresponding well in comparison with Shepard and major points of what makes him/her hero.

[jahaa]

I did a second run of ME3 and this is what i saw:

www.youtube.com/watch

Judge for yourselves!

[a.m.p]

@OP, I hope not.

If that's the case, please don't tell my Shepard, she might want to punch someone.

jahaa wrote...

I did a second run of ME3 and this is what i saw:

www.youtube.com/watch

Judge for yourselves!

Did you try to get rid of the stargazer cutscene? Because that's what happened to me when I tried to get rid of it.

[Mavaras]

One really doesn't need to nitpick to find similarities between the two. Broad strokes are better for analysis in this field; academic study of religion. Shepard was probably not suppose to be symbolic of Jesus, but that doesn't mean he isn't a lot like him.

Different:

1.The mechanism of sacrifice:   
   a.Jesus' sacrifice does not save everybody; conditional or unconditional.         
        i. if unconditional, people can choose to not be saved in christian theology. (arminianism)
        ii. if conditional, the elect are chosen and the unelect go unsaved. (calvinism)
   
   b.Shepards sacrifice is salvation for everybody (if we accept synthetics into the equation this changes).

2.Shepard does not perform miracles.

3.Shepard is no part divine:
     a.Council of Nicaea defines Jesus as 100 percent divine and 100 percent human.

Similarities:

1. Both have issues with authority figures.

2. Both have disciples.

3. Both act as ciphers:     
     a.Shepard for Prothean.     
     b.Jesus for divinity.

4.Both have prophecy:     
     a.Shepard from Beacon.     
     b.Jesus from god.

5.Both preach of apocalypse:
     a.Shepard for the coming of the reapers.
     b.Jesus for the coming of god.

6.Both are seen as radical by their peers:
     a.Shepard for allying with aliens.
     b.Jesus for allying with sinners.

7.Both had moments of calling:
     a.Shepard touched the beacon on eden prime and recieved his purpose.  (Called to paradise)
     b.Jesus was baptized by John and recieved his purpose.                         (Called to the desert)

8.Both are righteous to fault:
     a.Jesus' was politically hamstrung because he refused to deny his divinity.
     b.Shepard was politically hamstrung because he refused to deny the reapers.

Modifié par Mavaras, 02 avril 2012 - 11:10 .

[jahaa]

@a.m.p

Yes.

First i fired like 50 carnifex rounds on that ghost. Then i walked to the red ending and as soon the relays started to spin like crazy i tried to cut the scene and got the jesus ending.

[ubermensch007]

Is Shepard symbolic of Yeshua? I don't know, perhaps a greater comparison could made betwixt Shep and Noah. With how Noah made preperations for the soon coming Flood and warned the people of his age what was to come-- and they all ignored him.Save his family.

But as far as an Observation about Shepard having a parallel to Jesus. This post may be worth checking out:

?  :innocent:

Modifié par ubermensch007, 02 avril 2012 - 10:31 .

[Nimrodell]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

If Shepard is symbolic of Jesus, BW clearly didn't read the Bible. At least for the final days of Jesus.

I would never go that far saying that Shepard is symbolic for Jesus - and that's wrong assumption in the very thread's title. The only thing that s visible so far and that can be proved is that Jesus is one of Shepard's archetypes, but that can be said for many heroes/martyrs from old stories. There are few biblical archetypes in Mass Effect story. To make things simpler - for example - Sumerian and Akkadian flood myth from Epic of Gilgamesh and its heroes like Enki (Ea) supreme god and chosen mortal man Utnapisthim are in fact archetypes for Old Testament's Noah and Great Flood sent on Earth by Yahweh. I hope this makes things little more clear now. So, no, Shepard is not a symbol for Jesus Christ but also Jesus is Shepard's archetype no matter where we look, either in Gospels or The Book of Revelation and it doesn't have to be even intentional by writers - it's just that some stories are deeply embedded in our collective consciousness or as some writers, artists would believe - in our genetic memory.

[Harorrd]

theres some similarities, but most religius icons have done

-enlightenment
-death
-resurrection
- Becoming holy

This is the case with Both jesus, Buddah, Muhammed, etc...

[nametry629]

OP as far as I remember RI from school many years ago he didn't make mistakes, bang the help or pack a machine gun so no I don't think so.

[Fenrisfil]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

Fenrisfil wrote...

Fairly sure it's not just Catholics that believe in Jesus. But anyway, it did cross my mind too and I really hope that's not the case. After the LOST finale I really don't need another sci-fi giving up on all science based explanations and resorting to religious dogma instead.

Well, not everything can be explained using Science for sure.... at the VERY LEAST Science it-self would have to be explained by other means than Science or it would just be an exercise in circular logic.....

Makes sense, but I would hope if I asked a scientist to explain what science was, they wouldn't respond with "Space Magic". Well Michio Kaku may, but he would probably be joking.

[daisekihan]

Canned Bullets wrote...

I hope not because it annoys me every time developers purposely put in Bible references just to make the characters and the story be more "biblical" and "World-bending."

Also the Normandy crashing on a planet was just some Adam and Eve stuff which would just devolve into an incest colony. Seriously you need at least a couple thousand people to sustain a population to have it grow, not the 35 Normandy crew that landed in the middle of nowhere. 

There's at least 50 people on the Normandy by my count.

I'm not sure --- would you really absolutely need thousands? Let's say there were 20 couples and they each produced two kids, that would give you forty. I'm no geneticist, but if you restricted who breeded with who, you would probably get to the level of 5th cousins or more before there was any real inbreeding, which might cause problems, but wouldn't make the whole population unviable (I think at least).

[Fliprot]

The Angry One wrote...

Jesus rejected Satan's temptation.
Shepard accepted it.

This.

[nitefyre410]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

If Shepard is symbolic of Jesus, BW clearly didn't read the Bible. At least for the final days of Jesus.

 

^ This ... 

I was just getting ready to say that. 

[DoomRaiden]

not the 1st time it happened ... in The Matrix Revolutions, Neo gave his life to end the war between man and machines ... heck, even as he glowed, it showed a glowing cross lol I couldnt stop laughing

[Fliprot]

Jesus got all that from Horus and Mithra,among other pagan sons of gods, anyway.

Most of what you know about Jesus was taken from other divines in other to ease the transition of pagans into christianism. So.. No.

[nitefyre410]

If Bioware was trying to make Shepard into a messiah like figure... they did and are doing it wrong.  At least The Matrix got it right in some aspects with  Morpheus, Neo,Trinity and  Agent Smith.   That whole theme was ran through out the movie.  Mass Effect  on the other had ..really had  no allusions to Shepard being a christ like figure..until the last 10 minutes. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 02 avril 2012 - 12:26 .

[VendettaI154]

I'mma leave this here.

[count_4]

Nuchy wrote...
Jesus had 12 apostles 
Shepard had 12 squadmates in me2

Jesus was betrayed by his friend judas and died on the cross.
Shepard was betrayed by the illusive man and died on the crucible.

 Shepard goes around the Galaxy solving problems
Jesus went around the known world solving problems

Apart from the fact that I sure hope BioWare doesn't want to force some religious crap upon me, these three similarities are very thin.

Unless of course this is supposed to be some April Fools joke. In that case it's a rather bad one. But then the whole bible/Jesus business is kind of a bad joke...

[Zaalbar]

I would say Shepard is more symbolic of Hitler if you go for the synthesis ending.

[nitefyre410]

  Guys.  Christianity, Islam, and Judism all have history  and mysthos that  writers can use creatively. Just because one uses it does not mean they are trying to force something down your throat or get you to belief something. Its the same as writers using Greek Mythology or Norse, or Hindu or Shinto, or Buddist.

The new BSG is heavily influence by the  Greek Mythology, the Story of Moses and The Book of Exodus... people love it and it did no force anything on any one.   

The point not the Bioware did it in a attempt force anything. The point is that Bioware did it and failed horriblely at because it the themes were never  in the story from the start. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 02 avril 2012 - 12:38 .