SEE THE DIFFERENCE?
Javelin is Ultra-Rare, so give it an ultra rare exception.
Modifié par Air Quotes, 20 avril 2012 - 12:55 .
Suggestion: Javelin ignores shield gate mechanic.
Débuté par
RamsenC
, avril 01 2012 10:16
#51
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Posté 20 avril 2012 - 12:34
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With a lvl 1 Javelin you can kill 2-3 enemies and you're out of ammo! 5 if you use an ammo mod. With a lvl 1 Valiant you can kill 15. Or 25 if you use an ammo mod.
SEE THE DIFFERENCE?
Javelin is Ultra-Rare, so give it an ultra rare exception.
SEE THE DIFFERENCE?
Javelin is Ultra-Rare, so give it an ultra rare exception.
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#52
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 12:47
Viquey
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Yes.
Yesssss.
This would renew my love of sniping with everyone not salarian (because energy drain is basically like ignoring shieldgate).
It shoots an unusual projectile--a stream of ferrofluid. That's enough lore reason, imo, for it to bypass shieldgate. A gun that does as much damage as this thing should not have such a limitation. It makes its damage completely moot, and thus makes the gun damn near useless on Gold with anything that can't strip shields. And even then, once that centurion, nemesis, or phantoms shields/barriers are gone, a Javelin shot is usually major overkill. Again making the damage moot.
Besides. Geth rely on shields. They must know their ins and outs. So they'd know how to calibrate their guns to bypass them.
Yesssss.
This would renew my love of sniping with everyone not salarian (because energy drain is basically like ignoring shieldgate).
It shoots an unusual projectile--a stream of ferrofluid. That's enough lore reason, imo, for it to bypass shieldgate. A gun that does as much damage as this thing should not have such a limitation. It makes its damage completely moot, and thus makes the gun damn near useless on Gold with anything that can't strip shields. And even then, once that centurion, nemesis, or phantoms shields/barriers are gone, a Javelin shot is usually major overkill. Again making the damage moot.
Besides. Geth rely on shields. They must know their ins and outs. So they'd know how to calibrate their guns to bypass them.
#53
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 12:51
Influ
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True enough. I have a Kishock X, but no Javelin, sadface. On top of the rarity, it also weighs much more, has less ammo and reloads slower. Kishock also sends the corpses flying across the room and that's awesome!cruc1al wrote...
Plus, Kishock is Gold, Javelin is N7, so Javelin obviously should be better...
#54
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 12:52
Mihomiti
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Shield penetration weapon mod to combat shield gating.
#55
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 01:05
A Wild Snorlax
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I don't see why not. If i use a claymore or gps on my infiltrator I can oneshot anything that isnt a heavy unit without taking down thier shields anyway.
I haven't unlocked the javelin after hundreds of spectre packs. When I do unlock it though thre's really no practical reason for me to take it over my claymore on my geth infiltrator besides more damage to heavy units. For anything else it is inferior to a black widow or a strong shotgun.
I haven't unlocked the javelin after hundreds of spectre packs. When I do unlock it though thre's really no practical reason for me to take it over my claymore on my geth infiltrator besides more damage to heavy units. For anything else it is inferior to a black widow or a strong shotgun.
#56
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 01:46
Serkevan
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Also, Kishok weighs far less than the Jav, so it wouldn't be such an extreme imbalance...
#57
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 02:28
xReefeR
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The Javilin with Geth Infiltrator takes 3 shots to kill a prime. Im sure its fine how it is.
#58
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 02:54
january42
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I think it would be a good change(we already have an example in the Kishock). It nothing else, it would make the Javelin a reasonable alterative to the other N7 snipers(Valiant and BW). Right now it really isn't.
#59
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 03:03
SpiffsGhost
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I am definitely on board with this! As a Javelin wielding GI, I've seen (and personally calculated) what this thing can do, but it becomes unimpressive on Gold due to shield gating. It's still great for taking down bosses on Gold, but when you can't even take down a Centurion or a Marauder in one shot, that just seems to make the Ultra-Rare status of this weapon not nearly as deserving.
Like many who have posted have already said, the lore seems to be set up to allow a bypass of this mechanic, as a ferrous fluid might not necessarily qualify as a "projectile" that is hampered by kinetic barriers. If the Kishock can do it (which seems more like common projectile than the Javelin) then why not the Jav?
+1
- Spiff
Like many who have posted have already said, the lore seems to be set up to allow a bypass of this mechanic, as a ferrous fluid might not necessarily qualify as a "projectile" that is hampered by kinetic barriers. If the Kishock can do it (which seems more like common projectile than the Javelin) then why not the Jav?
+1
- Spiff
#60
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 03:43
Sabbatine
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PsychoXR-20 wrote...
While having the Javelin ignore shield gating defeats the entire purpose of the shield gate mechanic (to prevent people from being able to one-shot anything that's not a boss on higher difficulties)
If that's what you think the purpose of the shield gate mechanic is, then its purpose has already been defeated. Ever use a high powered shotgun?
#61
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 03:45
Tangster
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Shotguns reward people who get in closer. Higher risk.Sabbatine wrote...
PsychoXR-20 wrote...
While having the Javelin ignore shield gating defeats the entire purpose of the shield gate mechanic (to prevent people from being able to one-shot anything that's not a boss on higher difficulties)
If that's what you think the purpose of the shield gate mechanic is, then its purpose has already been defeated. Ever use a high powered shotgun?
Being able to oneshot enemies through a wall is just making the game trivially easy.
#62
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 03:46
vivanto
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Sabbatine wrote...
PsychoXR-20 wrote...
While having the Javelin ignore shield gating defeats the entire purpose of the shield gate mechanic (to prevent people from being able to one-shot anything that's not a boss on higher difficulties)
If that's what you think the purpose of the shield gate mechanic is, then its purpose has already been defeated. Ever use a high powered shotgun?
Well, that. And even if that'd be the purpose of shield gates, then what's the purpose of sniper rifles?
#63
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 03:49
Siliboy
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vivanto wrote...
Sabbatine wrote...
PsychoXR-20 wrote...
While having the Javelin ignore shield gating defeats the entire purpose of the shield gate mechanic (to prevent people from being able to one-shot anything that's not a boss on higher difficulties)
If that's what you think the purpose of the shield gate mechanic is, then its purpose has already been defeated. Ever use a high powered shotgun?
Well, that. And even if that'd be the purpose of shield gates, then what's the purpose of sniper rifles?
This. I said it a page ago, nobody seems to care. Meh.
Single shot SR's (except Kishock) and Wraith are the only weapons that are directly affected by shield gating.
#64
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 04:02
Zancloufer
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What about making the Javelin fire 'Two projectiles' instead of one. Each one would do half damage, and hit right after each other. That way if half your damage can overcome enemy shields, you can pretty much one shot it. Makes it kinda ignore shield gate while not totally
As it stands, the Javelin has crap for ammo, and is overkill on Bronze and somewhat on Silver. Not to mention it's (one of) the heaviest guns in game.
As it stands, the Javelin has crap for ammo, and is overkill on Bronze and somewhat on Silver. Not to mention it's (one of) the heaviest guns in game.
#65
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 04:25
vivanto
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Zancloufer wrote...
What about making the Javelin fire 'Two projectiles' instead of one. Each one would do half damage, and hit right after each other. That way if half your damage can overcome enemy shields, you can pretty much one shot it. Makes it kinda ignore shield gate while not totally
As it stands, the Javelin has crap for ammo, and is overkill on Bronze and somewhat on Silver. Not to mention it's (one of) the heaviest guns in game.
We don't need another incisor.
#66
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 04:25
Lolb4udiez
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#67
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 04:48
Zancloufer
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vivanto wrote...
Zancloufer wrote...
What about making the Javelin fire 'Two projectiles' instead of one. Each one would do half damage, and hit right after each other. That way if half your damage can overcome enemy shields, you can pretty much one shot it. Makes it kinda ignore shield gate while not totally
As it stands, the Javelin has crap for ammo, and is overkill on Bronze and somewhat on Silver. Not to mention it's (one of) the heaviest guns in game.
We don't need another incisor.
Not two real projectiles, just make it fire both of them at the same time (like a shotgun) and hit the same point. Cheap easy way to make it get past shield gating without ingoring it completly.
#68
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Posté 20 avril 2012 - 04:50
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Those who say that Javelin takes down bosses fast, it's kinda true. But I can take em down almost just as fast with a Valiant or Black Widow, plus I can take down trash just as well.
BW or Valiant are much faster and much more efficient at killing just because of the shieldgate.
DPS don't matter if most of the damage goes to waste. Doesn't matter if a cloaked Javelin headshot does 15000 damage if it can't one shot a Centurion on Gold.
BW or Valiant are much faster and much more efficient at killing just because of the shieldgate.
DPS don't matter if most of the damage goes to waste. Doesn't matter if a cloaked Javelin headshot does 15000 damage if it can't one shot a Centurion on Gold.
Modifié par Air Quotes, 20 avril 2012 - 04:54 .
#69
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 05:00
RamsenC
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Maybe completely ignoring shield gate is OP, but the Javelin needs something because right now the BW and Valiant are straight up better. I don't care how many math problems you show me. Even with 25% damage going through shields, the BW will probably still be better, but at least I'll use the Javelin sometimes.
On a side note I thought this thread was dead forever. Also you can quick scope with the Javelin. Hold shoot then quickly press aim instead of the usual hold aim and quickly press shoot.
On a side note I thought this thread was dead forever. Also you can quick scope with the Javelin. Hold shoot then quickly press aim instead of the usual hold aim and quickly press shoot.
Modifié par RamsenC, 20 avril 2012 - 05:04 .
#70
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 05:02
vivanto
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Zancloufer wrote...
Not two real projectiles, just make it fire both of them at the same time (like a shotgun) and hit the same point. Cheap easy way to make it get past shield gating without ingoring it completly.
Then it's not cheap but overcomplicated. It's just a flag to make it pass shield gate.
#71
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Posté 20 avril 2012 - 05:08
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RamsenC wrote...
Maybe completely ignoring shield gate is OP, but the Javelin needs something because right now the BW and Valiant are straight up better. I don't care how many math problems you show me.
On a side note I thought this thread was dead forever.
They are not just slightly better. They are 10x better! Stand in FB:Hydra near the LZ and snipe down the yard with the Javelin and then Valiant or Black Widow and see how fast the enemy will get to you. They will swarm you in seconds with the Javelin, and not even come close with BW or Valiant.
Modifié par Air Quotes, 20 avril 2012 - 05:08 .
#72
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 07:12
PsychoXR-20
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xReefeR wrote...
The Javilin with Geth Infiltrator takes 3 shots to kill a prime. Im sure its fine how it is.
Geth Rocket Trooper
2,700 total defenses (1,350 health and 1,350 shields)
Javelin I shots to kill: 2
Javelin X with Sniper Rifle Rail Amp 3 shots to kill: 2
Geth Prime
28,687 total defenses (16,875 Armor and 11,812 shields)
Javelin I shots to kill: 3
Javelin X with Sniper Rifle Rail Amp 3 shots to kill: 2
A Geth Prime has 10.62 times as much defenses as a Geth Rocket Trooper, yet only takes 1.5 times more shots to kill with a Javelin 1.
Manage to score a Javelin X and slap a Sniper Rifle Rail Amp on it and it now takes the same amount of shots to kill a Geth Prime as it does to kill a Geth Rocket Trooper.
Something seems wrong there.
Modifié par PsychoXR-20, 20 avril 2012 - 07:48 .
#73
Posté 20 avril 2012 - 10:18
SpiffsGhost
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PsychoXR-20 wrote...
Geth Rocket Trooper
2,700 total defenses (1,350 health and 1,350 shields)
Javelin I shots to kill: 2
Javelin X with Sniper Rifle Rail Amp 3 shots to kill: 2
Geth Prime
28,687 total defenses (16,875 Armor and 11,812 shields)
Javelin I shots to kill: 3
Javelin X with Sniper Rifle Rail Amp 3 shots to kill: 2
A Geth Prime has 10.62 times as much defenses as a Geth Rocket Trooper, yet only takes 1.5 times more shots to kill with a Javelin 1.
Manage to score a Javelin X and slap a Sniper Rifle Rail Amp on it and it now takes the same amount of shots to kill a Geth Prime as it does to kill a Geth Rocket Trooper.
Something seems wrong there.
This is interesting to me. I wonder if it's possible to only nullify shield gating on certain enemies. I think one of the biggest issues is not being able to OHK the light infantry units. I recall someone saying that shield gating is a global setting, but weapons are already coded to get around it. Would it be so much more coding to only bypass SG on lower ranking enemies? (this is an honest question, as I have no knowledge of computer science, I'm a biologist
)- Spiff
#74
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Posté 21 avril 2012 - 06:55
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Basically the comparison look like this:
Me playing Human Infiltrator with Valiant on Gold - missing a lot and generally not on top of my game - 95000 points
Playing Geth Infiltrator on the same map, knowing where every enemy is, shooting through walls, missing very rarely - 80000 points
With Valiant it felt like I was not even trying, with Javelin it felt like I was working hard.
Not being able to 1 shot basic troopers and constant ammo starvation is the biggest drawback for Javelin. Add the weight and shot delay and you have an N7 weapon that is on par with Mantis. The scope is great and the damage against heavies is nice, but they are not the biggest problem. Infantry is.
Me playing Human Infiltrator with Valiant on Gold - missing a lot and generally not on top of my game - 95000 points
Playing Geth Infiltrator on the same map, knowing where every enemy is, shooting through walls, missing very rarely - 80000 points
With Valiant it felt like I was not even trying, with Javelin it felt like I was working hard.
Not being able to 1 shot basic troopers and constant ammo starvation is the biggest drawback for Javelin. Add the weight and shot delay and you have an N7 weapon that is on par with Mantis. The scope is great and the damage against heavies is nice, but they are not the biggest problem. Infantry is.
Modifié par Air Quotes, 21 avril 2012 - 06:56 .
#75
Posté 23 avril 2012 - 03:50
Sabbatine
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Tangster wrote...
Shotguns reward people who get in closer. Higher risk.Sabbatine wrote...
PsychoXR-20 wrote...
While having the Javelin ignore shield gating defeats the entire purpose of the shield gate mechanic (to prevent people from being able to one-shot anything that's not a boss on higher difficulties)
If that's what you think the purpose of the shield gate mechanic is, then its purpose has already been defeated. Ever use a high powered shotgun?
Being able to oneshot enemies through a wall is just making the game trivially easy.
That isn't even close to being true. Most shotguns are effective at medium range, infact most maps aren't big enough for sniper rifle range to be really considered an advantage over an assault rifle or scoped pistol and in fact a sniper rifle user is usually exposed to the same amount of risk a shotgun user might be because you're rarely out of the enemies range.
Air Quotes wrote...
Not being able to 1 shot basic troopers and constant ammo starvation is the biggest drawback for Javelin. Add the weight and shot delay and you have an N7 weapon that is on par with Mantis. The scope is great and the damage against heavies is nice, but they are not the biggest problem. Infantry is.
The javelin is inherently a defensive oriented weapon. If you want to run around and operate without the constant support of your team then the valiant, viper, black widow, or even the raptor are better choices.
Secondly, you should almost never pick a sniper rifle based on its ability to one shot basic enemies. If that is your criteria for choosing a sniper rifle might as well just play another class that specializes at killing weaker enemies.
