1536 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Filament wrote...
The fact that he wants "a girl" rather than "a girl named Hawke"

You illustrate his transition from Awakening to DAII. He goes from being straight to being Hawke-sexual.

[Dessalines]

I always thought that was were the funnier issues concerning Dragon Age 2 was how everyone could romance everyone. I thought they did that in response to people complaining in Dragon Age that they could not romance this or that person. Check the forums for Dragon Age 1, you will see the complaints.
Back to the opening posts
1)I would rather have a mixed of conversations system from both games. Again, Dragon Age: Origins, you could go through you entire dialogue before even being down with half the game. I would rather be able to have fresh dialogue choices throughout the game, or a mixed between the two systems would be great. It just means you have to record more dialogue.
2)I do like in Dragon Age 2 that the relationships continue after you slept with them that was not the end goal of the relationship. Can we have more on that.
3)Companions list: 1)Cassandra, 2)Varric 3)Female Dwarf 4)fTallis
4)I like that the Companions have their own lives.

[Eudaemonium]

David Gaider wrote...

Insofar as the DA2 romances went, my only personal issue is that the Fenris and Anders romances were a little too close in their general tone-- meaning that the same kind of person was apt to like them both (though this is by no means universal, as with most romances). I'd like to have a little more divergence in the "romance type" in the future.

Odd, I didn't find this at all. Having played through both the romances, I actually found their tones very different. I kind of get what you mean in terms of 'general' tone, in that they were both kind of truly, madly deeply somewhat possessive romances but I felt that the specifics were enough to really differentiate them. Maybe it's the 3 year gap versus the 'moving in together' thing that makes them so different to my mind despite certain similarities in personality.

[AkiKishi]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Filament wrote...
The fact that he wants "a girl" rather than "a girl named Hawke"

You illustrate his transition from Awakening to DAII. He goes from being straight to being Hawke-sexual.

Maybe he's straight but his demon is gay.

[the_one_54321]

Filament wrote...
Since consistency is also viable, it would seem you need to actually prove there is a 'transition.'

You listed the evidence yourself...

If you want more evidence, one need only examine the trends. Lots of things were randomly rewritten between DA:O and DAII. For example whether or not any particular character was really dead. Like Anders. Or in my case, Zevran. Or the fact that Leliana was said to be wandering with my Warden at the end of DA:O.

They retconned a ton of things.

BobSmith101 wrote...
Maybe he's straight but his demon is gay.

Allegedly, in DAII he says his first experience was with a man.

Oh, but he only says it if Hawke is a man.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 03 avril 2012 - 05:42 .

[the_one_54321]

Filament wrote...
If you think what I said proves he's Hawkesexual you must not have read what I actually said.

I read it.

In Awakening he wants a girl.

In DAII he wants a Hawke. The transitions is pretty plain to see.

[Johnny Jaded]

Filament wrote...

But I don't buy this notion that him not mentioning the relationship to female Hawkes means it doesn't exist.

Where did I say that his relations with Karl don't exist if not mentioned to a female Hawke? I didn't. I said that as it does exist regardless of Hawke's gender, that it should be mentioned to Hawke regardless of gender and not solely to a male Hawke. And, if it was, that would be one less inconsistency with the character, making him more believeable as being bi, rather than feeling that his sexual orientation was retconned to make him available to anyone should they wish.

Modifié par Johnny Jaded, 03 avril 2012 - 05:47 .

[the_one_54321]

Filament wrote...
What, does he have to wear a sign around his neck in DA2 saying "I like all girls, not just Hawke specifically" for you to be satisfied that he's heterosexual?

He has to say something, anything. Establish the character. Doesn't mean you have to write badly. Write it well. Just write it.

[the_one_54321]

Filament wrote...
I would expect consistency unless proven otherwise. His character was already established. Nothing indicates that establishment has been altered. Yes some other things have been retconned, but I hardly see how that means we can't assume anything from before is consistent.

We can assume anything we like. The lack of establishment in the character causes me to assume that he's been retconned. Which breaks the character for me, which is why I don't like it.

I actually kind of doubt that there was anything about Anders I ever could have enjoyed. Because of the retconning, his automatic survival, and his change into ... well what he changed into. So maybe he's not the best example.

For any of the other characters, if there had just been any kind of dialog, for any reason whatsoever, even if it was brief, where they talk about the fact that they like men and women, it would no longer have been immersion breaking.

[whykikyouwhy]

Johnny Jaded wrote...

Filament wrote...

But I don't buy this notion that him not mentioning the relationship to female Hawkes means it doesn't exist.

Where did I say that his relations with Karl don't exist if not mentioned to a female Hawke? I didn't. I said that as it does exist regardless of Hawke's gender, that it should be mentioned to Hawke regardless of gender and not solely to a male Hawke. And, if it was, that would be one less inconsistency with the character, making him more believeable as being bi, rather than feeling that his sexual orientation was retconned to make him available to anyone should they wish.

I fail to see how Anders' sexual orientation was retconned when he was not a romancable character in DA:A. No one was. So at no point does the PC have the opportunity to pursue a romance with any character and make any type of assessment of how that character feels about men or women. We have no idea who Velanna might find appealing, who Nathaniel has bedded or cares to bed in the future, etc. Anders comments about wanting a nice girl...ok. But that doesn't mean that he might not want a nice man as well. It's one idle comment that we cannot get more information on. That's hardly enough evidence to claim his orientation was retconned.

[Maria Caliban]

Whatever BioWare ends up doing, I'll probably be happy.

The romances in DA:O and DA II were great. Also, the Liara romance in ME 3 was fantastic. The Dragon Age team should steal Sylvia from the ME side because she did a great Liara and Samara.

[Maria Caliban]

Zevran suggested that being a man who was into other men was looked down on, at least in Antiva.

[n2nw]

the_one_54321 wrote...

n2nw wrote...
IRL, would you know someone was bisexual unless you asked (unless, of course, they're very open about it)? If they never told you about it and you fell in love, would it ever matter?

I don't think you've thought this through.... Have you ever had to explain to a gay woman that you didn't swing that way? I've had to explain to gay men that I didn't want to kiss them goodnight. (not that it was a problem, getting hit on by gay men is very flattering, but I don't swing that way) Hasen't anyone ever had to wonder if the girl or guy they were into was also into girls/guys? These things do come up in conversation. It's not a stretch to say "hey, if this is the way they are written, why doesn't it ever come up?"

I love how when you disagree with someone you believe they haven't "thought it through". Did you not read my post? I was referring to the fact that the romanceable NPCs never bring it up (most of them) and I was referring to male/female, not same sex (as that's what seems to be the crux of disagreement here - some people want straight or gay NPCs, not bisexual).

So, to answer your question as correctly asked - if you had "read my post through" , no, I would not have to explain to a bisexual male that I don't "swing that way" because I do.  And those things have never come up in my conversations with my dates. I've dated plenty of men and not once did we ever talk about the men they may have been into.....and a couple of the guys I dated were pretty metro-sexual and maybe questionable. But they were into me. Why would I ask if they were into other men? I didn't care and no, I never wondered.

And some NPCs they're only making bisexual to keep the masses happy.  Isabella and Zevran were written as bisexual characters.  Fenris was not written as a bisexual character (unless you chose to romance him as such - he could have been considered straight) so why *should* it come up? 

Modifié par n2nw, 03 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[Dejajeva]

Finally caught up and watched the Liara scene back pages and pages ago. It was beautiful. Really my favorite part was when they sat next to each other and held hands. I wish something like that could have been in the scene after Hawke's mother's thing. The rest was just awesome too. We don't see ANYTHING in DA too- I mean, I'm not looking for soft core porn or anything, but it could be a lot more sensual.

I really wish they'd figure out the underwear/robe/normal clothes thing. It still looks funny to me.

[Maria Caliban]

Dejajeva wrote...

Finally caught up and watched the Liara scene back pages and pages ago. It was beautiful. Really my favorite part was when they sat next to each other and held hands. I wish something like that could have been in the scene after Hawke's mother's thing. The rest was just awesome too. We don't see ANYTHING in DA too- I mean, I'm not looking for soft core porn or anything, but it could be a lot more sensual.

I really wish they'd figure out the underwear/robe/normal clothes thing. It still looks funny to me.

I'd give whomever work on that scene warm cookies and milk. It was all sorts of lovely.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 avril 2012 - 06:07 .

[Atakuma]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having one romance for each gender/orientation. While I like options, I like the possible benefits of having romances tailored to a specific gender more.
I can certainly see why Bioware wouldn't want to go that route though, The BSN tends to foam at the mouth whenever they get any sort of options taken away.

[Maria Caliban]

Atakuma wrote...

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having one romance for each gender/orientation. While I like options, I like the possible benefits of having romances tailored to a specific gender more.
I can certainly see why Bioware wouldn't want to go that route though, The BSN tends to foam at the mouth whenever they get any sort of options taken away.

I'd prefer two straight and two bisexual to that.

Most gamers are straight. If a character is open to men and women then you can justify giving their romance the same amount of attention as the straight romance. If they're same-sex only, you end up with side characters like Traynor and Cortez.

Nicely done, yes, but side-characters. Traynor was two conversations, a single romances dialogue, and a sex scene. You can't compare that to Garrus, Tali, or Liara.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 avril 2012 - 06:12 .

[Sylvianus]

Maria Caliban wrote...
 Also, the Liara romance in ME 3 was fantastic. The Dragon Age team should steal Sylvia from the ME side because she did a great Liara and Samara.

I think she said she would work with them after ME 3. Not sure though.

[Maria Caliban]

Sylvianus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
 Also, the Liara romance in ME 3 was fantastic. The Dragon Age team should steal Sylvia from the ME side because she did a great Liara and Samara.

I think she said she would work with them after ME 3. Not sure though.

I demand you find me this quote!

#RetakeSylvianus'FreeTime

[SteveGarbage]

Dejajeva wrote...

2. More friendship scenes and options. Especially with girls, if you're a girl. For instance, I loved being besties with Isabella, but I felt like the friendship, even with no romance, was still kind of flirty. Would have been cool to have some girl talk, and not just one line about what sex with whoever I'm having sex with is like randomly.

I personally LOVE this idea. OK, obviously every character isn't going to be romanceable. But I think for characters who don't swing a particular way or if you don't want to do that, it would be super cool to have "friendships" or (apologize here for the term) "bromances."

I'll draw a perfect example from ME3 - spoiler afterward - Garrus and Shepard shooting cans on the Presidium. That was one of my favorite scenes in the entire game. - end spoiler. Making something like, not a romance, but something you can work toward and achieve if you want would be great.

For example - maybe Aveline and Hawke get along and are "friends" but she's not someone you'd want to hang out with after work. Varric on the other hand is maybe your best bro. So even though you can't romance either of them, wouldn't it be nice to have a special romance-like-mechanic for friendship? Or for Male Hawke with Sebastian since you can't romance him as a guy.

Just wishful thinking. I can't believe I'm honestly suggest bromances for future games, but the idea sounded incredibly alluring once I read it from someone else...

Modifié par SteveGarbage, 03 avril 2012 - 06:21 .