1536 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
 Also, the Liara romance in ME 3 was fantastic. The Dragon Age team should steal Sylvia from the ME side because she did a great Liara and Samara.

I think she said she would work with them after ME 3. Not sure though.

I demand you find me this quote!

#RetakeSylvianus'FreeTime

lol.

Sylvf wrote...

Asperius wrote...

Any future
projects you are working on currently? Not fishing for spoilers or anything. Just want to know if I can see your work in future projects (like Dragon Age 3 maybe?).

Glad you liked them, thanks! I can't state what I'm working on, but I am currently on the Dragon Age franchise team.

EDIT: Oh man, I fussed with this after someone quoted it. Now everyone will know I continually tweak my posts!

I think it's enough ? ( I will not waste more of my freetime )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 03 avril 2012 - 06:22 .

[jlb524]

Maria Caliban wrote...
The Dragon Age team should steal Sylvia from the ME side because she did a great Liara and Samara.

Yes, they should XD

the_one_54321 wrote...

It doesn't need to be about history. It could be a self discovery thing. Or... well... anything! The point is that there issomething that definitively establishes the character. Then it wouldn't be a problem. Then he wouldn't be just a variable place-holder. 

Do they need to establish their favorite ice cream flavor too?

I'm not sure why the focus is placed so much on sexual preference for 'establishing the character' when other things are used (and more interesting things).  Why is that particular attribute always necessary?

Modifié par jlb524, 03 avril 2012 - 06:30 .

[Barquiel]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
 Also, the Liara romance in ME 3 was fantastic. The Dragon Age team should steal Sylvia from the ME side because she did a great Liara and Samara.

I think she said she would work with them after ME 3. Not sure though.

I demand you find me this quote!

#RetakeSylvianus'FreeTime

Your own thread

http://social.biowar...ndex/10023808/2

[Maria Caliban]

Thank you Sylvianus and Barquiel!

[n2nw]

SteveGarbage wrote...

Dejajeva wrote...

2. More friendship scenes and options. Especially with girls, if you're a girl. For instance, I loved being besties with Isabella, but I felt like the friendship, even with no romance, was still kind of flirty. Would have been cool to have some girl talk, and not just one line about what sex with whoever I'm having sex with is like randomly.

I personally LOVE this idea. OK, obviously every character isn't going to be romanceable. But I think for characters who don't swing a particular way or if you don't want to do that, it would be super cool to have "friendships" or (apologize here for the term) "bromances."

I loved the friendships with Garrus and Liara in ME3.  I haven't romanced either one of them yet, but their friendship paths were total awesomeness.  I would also like that kind of thing with the LI, only with some heat.  But these friendships were a step in the right direction.  I'd love to see that in DA3.....well, in any game I play.

[Atakuma]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of having one romance for each gender/orientation. While I like options, I like the possible benefits of having romances tailored to a specific gender more.
I can certainly see why Bioware wouldn't want to go that route though, The BSN tends to foam at the mouth whenever they get any sort of options taken away.

I'd prefer two straight and two bisexual to that.

Most gamers are straight. If a character is open to men and women then you can justify giving their romance the same amount of attention as the straight romance. If they're same-sex only, you end up with side characters like Traynor and Cortez.

Nicely done, yes, but side-characters. Traynor was two conversations, a single romances dialogue, and a sex scene. You can't compare that to Garrus, Tali, or Liara.

Yes, I realize it is a bit much to ask for two full on homosexual romances. What I really want is more gender specific content in the s/s romances so they don't feel so much like carbon copies of the straight versions. Nothing major , just things like more gender specific dialogue and the like.

[TheChris92]

Barquiel wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
 Also, the Liara romance in ME 3 was fantastic. The Dragon Age team should steal Sylvia from the ME side because she did a great Liara and Samara.

I think she said she would work with them after ME 3. Not sure though.

I demand you find me this quote!

#RetakeSylvianus'FreeTime

Your own thread

http://social.biowar...ndex/10023808/2

This is actually very interesting. The Liara romance was solid, so if she's gonna hop on the Dragon Age team then I'll definitely boost up my excitement for the next title. 

[Maria Caliban]

Why apologize for the word bromance?

[Atakuma]

Barquiel wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
 Also, the Liara romance in ME 3 was fantastic. The Dragon Age team should steal Sylvia from the ME side because she did a great Liara and Samara.

I think she said she would work with them after ME 3. Not sure though.

I demand you find me this quote!

#RetakeSylvianus'FreeTime

Your own thread

http://social.biowar...ndex/10023808/2

Ooh, that's awesome news.

[Dave of Canada]

The problem for me is that the bisexual romances are actually just gender neutral, the entire romance is identical (except for the Karl dialogue for Anders) and thus simply becomes "He/She is the greatest", rather than something which is done exclusive for the romance.

Mentioned earlier that I'd prefer different conflicts and troubles with each romance depending on gender, this was simply my preference as what would please me as it would introduce different conflict and the protagonist would deal with it differently.

I'm imagining the bitter tears of gay men who'd be rejected by (hypothetical) gay Alistair completely after the Landsmeet, as he'd need to produce an heir and he has to dump you out of duty. They'd have different context and deal with it differently than somebody who romanced him while playing a female character, who can possibly become his mistress or even Queen.

I'm not thinking of it as spiting people, just introducing key differences between both sexualities of the character. I'd actually desire that straight romances are punished as well, not simply the s/s. Just taking the problems which arise in both types of romances and set them out upon the player, let them deal with it in their own fashion.

[Deviija]

n2nw wrote...

SteveGarbage wrote...

I personally LOVE this idea. OK, obviously every character isn't going to be romanceable. But I think for characters who don't swing a particular way or if you don't want to do that, it would be super cool to have "friendships" or (apologize here for the term) "bromances."

I loved the friendships with Garrus and Liara in ME3.  I haven't romanced either one of them yet, but their friendship paths were total awesomeness. 

While I don't care for the 'bro' term in pop culture, the relationship between DudeShep and Garrus is definitely the epitome of the term 'bromance.'  And it was GRAND.  Not to ruin any illusion on purpose, but much of Garrus' romance dialogue is used for his friendship dialogues as well.  Even that special emotional end-game bit, much of it is given to a friend as well.  So yeah, it is definitely intimate and "bromance"-y. 

Liara and Garrus both have great friendship paths and romance paths in ME3.  While ME2 made me apathetic about Liara and confused over her character, ME3 gave me the FEELS for her.  The friendship talk on the Prisidium?  Brilliant.  Garrus' friendship talk/romance talk with Shepard at the end-game?  Brilliant.  I wouldn't mind seeing John Dombrow (the writer of Garrus in ME3) venture over to write a character or two for DA. 


Friendship paths are very important, imo.  I think why DA:O's friendship paths might gain my favor more than DA2 is mostly due to the intimacy and sentiment that the characters give to the PC.  Leli's chat about 'traveling the world together after the mission' with your PC is touching.  Morrigan's last chat, telling the LadyPC that she is the closest thing to a sister that she knows... also touching.  I like more of that.  The Feels.  Being able to share how important a friend is to your PC and have them express the same to you. 

Modifié par Deviija, 03 avril 2012 - 07:07 .

[Dave of Canada]

The problem with Garrus, Liara and the like is that there's no alternative to the character. Garrus is always your best friend, regardless of how you've treated him before or what you've said to him. It forces things upon the player which the Dragon Age writers tend to stay away from.

Not to say the friendship paths aren't done well, the problem being there's just no alternative.

[the_one_54321]

n2nw wrote...
I love how when you disagree with someone you believe they haven't "thought it through". Did you not read my post?

You said, "why would they talk about it," and, "why would it even matter." There's every reason in the world to talk about it and why it would matter, if it's in regard to whether or not someone is open to a relationship.

n2nw wrote...
So, to answer your question as correctly asked - if you had "read my post through" , no, I would not have to explain to a bisexual male that I don't "swing that way" because I do. And those things have never come up in my conversations with my dates. I've dated plenty of men and not once did we ever talk about the men they may have been into.....and a couple of the guys I dated were pretty metro-sexual and maybe questionable. But they were into me. Why would I ask if they were into other men? I didn't care and no, I never wondered.

I said gay female, not bi male. You've never been hit on by a woman?

n2nw wrote...
And some NPCs they're only making bisexual to keep the masses happy.

This is exactly what I'm complaining about, and why the characters have become cheap. Give us characters, not fill-in-the-blanks.

jlb524 wrote...
Do they need to establish their favorite ice cream flavor too?

Yes, if it happens to be important to the character's role in the story.

(...why a favorite ice cream flavor would be important to a character's role in the story, I can't image. Maybe if they turned DA into a dating sim...)

jlb524 wrote...
I'm not sure why the focus is placed so much on sexual preference for 'establishing the character' when other things are used (and more interesting things). Why is that particular attribute always necessary?

Because for these characters it's important to their role in the story.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 03 avril 2012 - 07:21 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

the_one_54321 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
I'm not sure why the focus is placed so much on sexual preference for 'establishing the character' when other things are used (and more interesting things). Why is that particular attribute always necessary?

Because for these characters it's important to their role in the story.

Sorry to intrude as it were, but I disagree.

The might have been true in DA:O, but in DA2 the characters were far more integrated in the happenings of the plot.  Regardless of whether you romanced Isabela or Anders the end was ostensibly the same.  Hawkes who romanced these characters had deeper stakes in the event, but the fact they were options available for romance was not their defining characteristic.  I adore Leliana and like Zevran but those two didn't have the central role that Alistair and Morrigan had or even Merrill and Fenris.  Merrill had influence that tied into the similar theme of mage freedom dependent upon how your viewed her dealings with Audacity.  Fenris had less a tie to the main plot, but he was meant to give insight to what could potentially happen in a society where mages rule.  The romance to me added to their character, but it was not the chief importance.

[the_one_54321]

Village Idiot wrote...
Hawkes who romanced these characters had deeper stakes in the event, but the fact they were options available for romance was not their defining characteristic.

I said important, not definitive.

I actually paused for thought concerning that exact word selection for this exact reason.

Romance makes their sexual preference important. Otherwise, it would not be.

[Deviija]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Not to say the friendship paths aren't done well, the problem being there's just no alternative.

Yes.  That *is* a problem.  However, in terms of the friendship paths in and of themselves?  They are good examples of friendships with the PC.   Adding in the rivalry/hostilities/hatred/whatever paths would be needed, certainly. 

Though I can't say that I am too fond of the rivalry system in DA2 as an 'alternative' path. 

 

the_one_54321 wrote...
Because for these characters it's important to their role in the story.

This isn't really explaining anything.  Their role in the story is based on their sexual orientation?  What does Anders liking men and women have to do with anything metaplot important, or fundamentally important to his character?  I am still not clear on what it is you are wanting to make it 'not cheap.' 

The thing about gender-specific dialogue/romances trying to get away from PC-sexual issues is that is still happens even in opposite sex relationships/romances.  If you are a lady human noble, a lady mage, a lady dwarf, a lady elf, a lady with extreme sliders and makeup to look beastly, you are STILL going to get Alistair's attention.   It is still PC-sexual, only restricting gender from the equation and nothing else. 

[the_one_54321]

Deviija wrote...
Their role in the story is based on their sexual orientation?

No, but the romance aspect of the story is. You may have missed my last post since these went up around the same time.

Deviija wrote...
I am still not clear on what it is you are wanting to make it 'not cheap.'

(Isabela is exempt from the following statements)
None of the characters are bisexual.
Their sexuality is a game variable that is reset every time you start a new game, such that they are attracted to whatever Hawke is.

This makes them cheap characters. They are fill-in-the-blanks.

If any of the characters ever had any dialog, for any reason whatsoever, where the character said any kind of variation of "I like both men and women," without it being specific to only one Hawke gender, then the character would be established. That would be enough.

Deviija wrote...
The thing about gender-specific dialogue/romances trying to get away from PC-sexual issues is that is still happens even in opposite sex relationships/romances. If you are a lady human noble, a lady mage, a lady dwarf, a lady elf, a lady with extreme sliders and makeup to look beastly, you are STILL going to get Alistair's attention. It is still PC-sexual, only restricting gender from the equation and nothing else.

I agree on this aspect, too, actually. And it also bugs me.

I don't think they can do anything about fixing appearance as a trigger for romances, though. But the rest of it bothers me. At the least, if you treat any of the characters in a way they don't like, the romance won't happen. So that's something on the good side.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 03 avril 2012 - 07:58 .

[n2nw]

the_one_54321 wrote...

n2nw wrote...
I love how when you disagree with someone you believe they haven't "thought it through". Did you not read my post?

You said, "why would they talk about it," and, "why would it even matter." There's every reason in the world to talk about it and why it would matter, if it's in regard to whether or not someone is open to a relationship.

If you're both straight?  You're taking my words out of context.

n2nw wrote...
So, to answer your question as correctly asked - if you had "read my post through" , no, I would not have to explain to a bisexual male that I don't "swing that way" because I do. And those things have never come up in my conversations with my dates. I've dated plenty of men and not once did we ever talk about the men they may have been into.....and a couple of the guys I dated were pretty metro-sexual and maybe questionable. But they were into me. Why would I ask if they were into other men? I didn't care and no, I never wondered.

the_one_54321 wrote...
I said gay female, not bi male. You've never been hit on by a woman?

I was talking about straight relationships.  You chose to make it same sex.  (And yes, I have.) 

n2nw wrote...
And some NPCs they're only making bisexual to keep the masses happy.

the_one_54321 wrote...
This is exactly what I'm complaining about, and why the characters have become cheap. Give us characters, not fill-in-the-blanks.

I don't see that it made a difference.

jlb524 wrote...
I'm not sure why the focus is placed so much on sexual preference for 'establishing the character' when other things are used (and more interesting things). Why is that particular attribute always necessary?

the_one_54321 wrote...
Because for these characters it's important to their role in the story.

It wasn't important to their role in the story at all.  The roles didn't change whether they were straight, bi or gay.  Fenris still hated magic and Anders still *spoilered* the *spoiler* at the end.  How did sexual preference influence any of that?

[the_one_54321]

n2nw wrote...
If you're both straight?  You're taking my words out of context.

I didn't mean to. I misunderstood.

n2nw wrote...
I was talking about straight relationships.  You chose to make it same sex.  (And yes, I have.)

The entirety of the recent conversation has been about the same-sex side of things, though. So hopefully you can understand my confusion.

n2nw wrote...
I don't see that it made a difference.

I don't want fill-in-the-blank characters.

jlb524 wrote...
It wasn't important to their role in the story at all.  The roles didn't change whether they were straight, bi or gay.  Fenris still hated magic and Anders still *spoilered* the *spoiler* at the end.  How did sexual preference influence any of that?

It is important to the romance aspect of the story. As with Devija, you may have missed the other post I made above.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 03 avril 2012 - 07:53 .

[slashthedragon]

Dejajeva wrote...

You should read some of the fanfic I've read about Sebastian- may change your mind about his sexuality.

haha you beat me to it.  Nothing in the game will ever convince me that Seb is only straight XD

[Dessalines]

I agree there should be more relationship moments like in Mass Effect 3. I think most of the moments with your companion were more profound, but the number could have been more. I

[n2nw]

the_one_54321 wrote...
I don't want fill-in-the-blank characters.

If noone had told you that Fenris was bisexual, would you have known unless you romanced him as a guy?  Does he hit on you?  Or do you simply have the option to flirt with him and take it in that direction?  (I honestly don't know as I haven't played as a guy.)   If the latter is true, then you should have no complaint about the NPC, only a complaint that you don't like knowing that you could make him bisexual (which would have been a pc-driven choice that you always have IRL - although in RL you don't have a sure thing).  If the former is true, I stil don't see the complaint so long as you can say, "thanks but no thanks."  I don't find that Fenris was any less of a character because a guy could romance him as well as a female.

the_one_54321 wrote...

n2nw wrote...
It wasn't important to their role in the story at all.  The roles didn't change whether they were straight, bi or gay.  Fenris still hated magic and Anders still *spoilered* the *spoiler* at the end.  How did sexual preference influence any of that?

It is important to the romance aspect of the story. As with Devija, you may have missed the post I made above.

I don't find it important to the romance, either.  What did it take away?

[the_one_54321]

n2nw wrote...
If noone had told you that Fenris was bisexual, would you have known unless you romanced him as a guy?

Because I do know about it, and knowing about it bothers me. It breaks my immersion, because I know that if I had chosen a different gender for Hawke, these characters would have become different characters. And I don't like that.

And before you say "it only happens in someone else's game," that doesn't matter either. Because I'm the kind of person that hunts down information, until I know everything there is about a game I'm playing. Some of us are just like that.

It is an issue of immersion, with regard to information that I will find. And it's not actually super hard to fix it, if bisexuality is just actually written into the character. Rather than treating them as game variables.

n2nw wrote...
I don't find it important to the romance, either.  What did it take away?

It made him/her a fill-in-the-blank, and I don't like that.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 03 avril 2012 - 08:04 .

[Maria Caliban]

If you have to go on the forums or play the game twice to consider a character cheap, a place-holder, or fill-in-the-blanks, then the character is none of the above.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 03 avril 2012 - 08:03 .