1536 réponses à ce sujet

[VampOrchid]

David Gaider wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
I hope Tallis doesn't come back, it's not that she's a bad character or anything but we've had her in DA2 and she's got her own web series... There's such thing as an overload and for my personally it would feel like she was being forced down our throats.

And I've been left with the impression that, had Tallis been a male character, there'd be far more swooning and talk of how he needs to return as a full romance, etc. etc., from... certain corners of the fanbase.

Hmm male/female. I just found the character felt out of place. I can't put my finger on it. But I wasn't convinced that she was part of the Dragon age world. Loved the series to death and loved that there was a DLC that ppl enjoyed. I just wasn't convinced. I don't know why. I love Felicia Day...Something felt off. Wish I had a better way to explain it.

[brushyourteeth]

berelinde wrote...
gets hit on *a lot* more than the protagonist, she never loses a banter, is never made to look genuinely foolish or incompetent

You're forgetting that the Count's son turns Tallis' advances down. COLD.

In fact, a lot of her flirting with the staff really gets her nowhere...hmm.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

Part of the problem with Tallis as a character is that people cannot seem to refer to the character without naming the actor.

I think you're right that these two things are too intermingled. I was trying to imagine who else could have been the voice actor/face model for this character that would be universally lauded... and can't really think of anyone. My best idea was Lucy Lawless. If Xena suddenly showed up in MOTA, busted out her badassery, and then *ping* posed for the camera, I would have gotten down on my knees in adulation. Buuuttt, inevitably, I'm sure someone would have had a problem with her too.

So, trying to get back on topic... um, Xena for companion in DA3?

[VampOrchid]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I didn't realize Cullen was so popular ahahha

Ooh funny jokes you have here mister man!

[Apollo Starflare]

Tallis was awesome. More please.

[berelinde]

brushyourteeth wrote...

berelinde wrote...
gets hit on *a lot* more than the protagonist, she never loses a banter, is never made to look genuinely foolish or incompetent

You're forgetting that the Count's son turns Tallis' advances down. COLD.

In fact, a lot of her flirting with the staff really gets her nowhere...hmm.

I did forget that the Count's son turns Tallis down. Probably because *one* isolated instance of Tallis not being instantly admired was not particularly memorable. It would have been better if it were handled like Carver/Bethany in the prologue: "Shall I, brother/sister?" followed by an option for the PC to attempt it him/herself or let the NPC have a try.

And that goes for most of Tallis's "shining moments." Through most of the game, the PC is given the option of attempting a solution. In MotA, it felt as if Hawke was just there to make Tallis look good.

[brushyourteeth]

True, Tallis was kind of the star of MotA.

Mr. Gaider, have you ever noticed that the characters that get the most fan-hate are ones that have strong religious convictions?

Leliana
Definitely Sebastian
Merrill
Meredith (though I understand why)
Elthina
Even, to a lesser degree, Alistair or Sten?

I've noticed that from a great number of comments I've read on the BSN (although people who don't feel strongly about it aren't the ones saying something) people have a hard time accepting characters who deal in absolutes when it comes to religion. They automatically feel like that character's certainty is supposed to compel them to agree.

People like characters that are uncertain about religion. Tallis was an uncertain character trying to convince us that she was certain. This should have made her more complex, but I suspect that for a lot of people that simply translated into confusing/frustrating.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 24 avril 2012 - 07:32 .

[the_one_54321]

Sten is not religious.

The Qun is a societal life philosophy, not a manual for worship.

[brushyourteeth]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sten is not religious.

The Qun is a societal life philosophy, not a manual for worship.

We don't really know yet what the Qun is. The word NPC's use to describe it is "religion" and beyond that we just have conjecture.

But I see what you mean. A higher power or afterlife hasn't been discussed (even as it isn't in some RL philosophies classified as religions)

[5trangeCase]

The Qun is a religion more than most other religions ever envisaged. Religion is attributed to one's way of life, as opposed to one's faith. Someone is religious if they strictly follow a set of rules (with or without a belief that these rules are rooted in a higher power) while someone is only part of a faith if they believe in for example a christian god but do not follow his teachings. To clear this up better, someone can follow the tenets of the Hindu religion, but be an atheist. They are still religious.

The Qun is a religion, and Sten is highly religious, just like all Qunari, but none have a faith. I would not surprised if the Qun perfectly tolerated the belief in the Maker, considering that is belief, which has no place in the Qun.

From what I've seen, the Chantry doesn't seem to have much of a religion, rather than tithes, attendance, persecution of mages and opposition to blasphemy. But I'm sure someone will be sure to correct me.

Modifié par 5trangeCase, 24 avril 2012 - 07:41 .

[brushyourteeth]

thankfully that's not really what this thread is about.

[the_one_54321]

Sten discusses, at length, the positions of individuals within the Qun, and the higher driving purpose of serving the people and embracing your place within that service. What is illustrated in all examples of discussion of the Qun is that the Qunarri as a people are what is to be exemplified, and that any individual's daily activity should be based around self improvement, the pursuit of wisdom, and acting in service of the people.

5trangeCase wrote...
...

What you describe is dogma. Religion is always based around worship, or idolization.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 24 avril 2012 - 07:45 .

[brushyourteeth]

Start a new thread, people.

[berelinde]

Is there any consensus on which characters get the most hate? For many players (although not for me), Anders tops the list, and he isn't religious at all. Also, Alistair is probably one of the most popular characters in the DA universe.

If anything, I'd say that the characters that get more than their share of fan-hate are those that take away character agency. When it doesn't matter what your protagonist does, the NPC has his or her way regardless. Most of the characters on your list fit that definition, too, and that includes the non-religious NPCs like Anders and, yes, Tallis.

The latter would have been a lot more effective and endearing to me as a character if there had been more focus on her religious crisis and less on how awesome she was supposed to be. To me, her internal conflicts got totally lost in the shuffle, and that's a shame.

[David Gaider]

VampOrchid wrote...
Hmm male/female. I just found the character felt out of place. I can't put my finger on it. But I wasn't convinced that she was part of the Dragon age world. Loved the series to death and loved that there was a DLC that ppl enjoyed. I just wasn't convinced. I don't know why. I love Felicia Day...Something felt off. Wish I had a better way to explain it.

I think it's because she's the first evidence of a Qunari that breaks out of the Sten mold-- namely humourless, gravelly-voiced giant. It would perhaps have been easier had the first character to do so also been a Kossith, but here we had a character that diverged from the perceived Qunari "norm" in a great many ways... thus some people look at that and think "well that's not a Qunari", when we say "there's more to the Qunari than what you've seen, or even what the Qunari themselves would like to believe."

Possibly people are conditioned to accept the "Star Trek" mold of aliens-- where every planet you visit has one dominant terrain and its aliens have one characteric that is true for every member of that race. Possibly just liked the idea of the Qunari being as utterly uniform as Sten proposed, and took him at his word... and why wouldn't you, until presented with evidence to the contrary? The difference here is that, when the contrary evidence was presented, some people chose to refute the character or the reasons for its existence.... as if us wanting Felicia Day to star in our game overrode all basic sense and convinced us to re-write our own setting just so we could do it. Which smacks of contempt in the same vein as the "Mary Sue" comment (one of those phrases which has practically lost all meaning from over-use), but what can you do?

Not that a male version of Tallis wouldn't have come with his own baggage-- but that's really the point, here.

[Dunquixote]

Hello. I was just told by some friends to post in here, so, sorry for posting my response too late.

The characters I'd love to have as companions/romance options:
1. Cullen (straight please) / my warden -- I really only like the thought of him being a romance option if my warden is in the game; so if she isn't, then just as a non romance companion or as an npc (as long as he doesn't go to the brothels or "cheat" on my warden)
2. Nathaniel, but I think someone mentioned in the Cullen thread that because of something about him possibly being able to be killed twice, that's not likely to happen.
3. Oghren--no romance though. I just find him and Steve Blum hilarious.
4. Varric -- romance maybe? He's the only one I really liked in DA II.
5. Sigrun
6. Sandal--it'd be interesting to see how he manages to down Pride demons, ogres, all on his own.
(just as a companion)

If Greagoir is still alive, I'd like him as a companion (again, just as a companion).
I don't want Isabella. She's the only companion I really don't like.

For sex scenes, I'd rather have DAO version of it with the (in my opinion) corny music than the DA II black out scene.


I admit, I don't have my own copy of DA II and I don't have all of the DLCs--and I haven't played any of the dlcs either; I downloaded the ones I have when I was in Act 3, the last time I played DA II. So, I don't know any characters other than the original ones from DA II and Dragon age origins/awakening.

[the_one_54321]

My understanding is that any person that embraces the Qun, and is accepted by the Qunarri is a Qunarri.

[David Gaider]

brushyourteeth wrote...
Mr. Gaider, have you ever noticed that the characters that get the most fan-hate are ones that have strong religious convictions?

Yes. Not unexpected, really... particularly on the Internet where your average person is affluent, Western and prone to bias against religious organizations in general. I don't think that's a bad thing, though. Like I've said previously, "fan-hate" is preferable to apathy, when it comes to the basic purpose that such characters serve... and, as far as I can tell, the bar for fans to hate just about any character is pretty darned low.

"What? He dared to talk about his personal problems? What a WHINER."

[5trangeCase]

I don't hate any characters, but then again I'm generally an anti-hateful person. But I also didn't care for a large proportion of the characters, I'm not a particularly loving person.

I'd say I liked Sten. Sten was cool. Also Tallis to an extent.

The rest? I found the companions of Dragon Age II generally interesting (excluding Isabela) while, apart from Sten, I found the companions of DA:O tiresome. Alistair and Morrigan were well-presented in terms of writing and acting, but I never cared for or was interested in either of them.

[brushyourteeth]

berelinde wrote...

Is there any consensus on which characters get the most hate? For many players (although not for me), Anders tops the list, and he isn't religious at all. Also, Alistair is probably one of the most popular characters in the DA universe.

If anything, I'd say that the characters that get more than their share of fan-hate are those that take away character agency. When it doesn't matter what your protagonist does, the NPC has his or her way regardless. Most of the characters on your list fit that definition, too, and that includes the non-religious NPCs like Anders and, yes, Tallis.

The latter would have been a lot more effective and endearing to me as a character if there had been more focus on her religious crisis and less on how awesome she was supposed to be. To me, her internal conflicts got totally lost in the shuffle, and that's a shame.

This is a really great point.

I still think the religious beliefs of some characters are a big part of what turns people off though, which makes me wonder if sometimes those priciples don't sometimes collide. A lot of people equate "religion" with "loss of "freedom" which is exactly what you're talking about. Could it be a subconscious thing?

Anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about ought to check out the latest comments on any post featuring Sebastian on the DA facebook page. I loved Sebastian and never felt like he was trying to convert me, but man... people do love to throw hate his way just for talking about what he believes.

[Dunquixote]

5trangeCase wrote...

I don't hate any characters, but then again I'm generally an anti-hateful person. But I also didn't care for a large proportion of the characters, I'm not a particularly loving person.

I'd say I liked Sten. Sten was cool. Also Tallis to an extent.

The rest? I found the companions of Dragon Age II generally interesting (excluding Isabela) while, apart from Sten, I found the companions of DA:O tiresome. Alistair and Morrigan were well-presented in terms of writing and acting, but I never cared for or was interested in either of them.

I liked Sten too.   I can actually understand some of the points he makes.

[the_one_54321]

Dunquixote wrote...
I liked Sten too.   I can actually understand some of the points he makes.

I found Sten to be utterly selfless and honest. Not everything he had to say struck a chord with me, but that much about him made him very admirable to me.

[brushyourteeth]

David Gaider wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...
Mr. Gaider, have you ever noticed that the characters that get the most fan-hate are ones that have strong religious convictions?

Yes. Not unexpected, really... particularly on the Internet where your average person is affluent, Western and prone to bias against religious organizations in general. I don't think that's a bad thing, though. Like I've said previously, "fan-hate" is preferable to apathy, when it comes to the basic purpose that such characters serve... and, as far as I can tell, the bar for fans to hate just about any character is pretty darned low.

"What? He dared to talk about his personal problems? What a WHINER."

Well I really enjoyed getting to know each of those characters and I hope you don't stop. Some of the most beautiful and some of the most horrible acts have been committed in the name of religion, (something you guys do a great job of showing in the DA universe - "would the Chantry recognize Andraste if they knew her?" etc) and as long as we live it'll be worth exploring.

We live in an age of tolerance where everybody's a jerk for actually believing in something. Weird.

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
I hope Tallis doesn't come back, it's not that she's a bad character or anything but we've had her in DA2 and she's got her own web series... There's such thing as an overload and for my personally it would feel like she was being forced down our throats.

And I've been left with the impression that, had Tallis been a male character, there'd be far more swooning and talk of how he needs to return as a full romance, etc. etc., from... certain corners of the fanbase.

Were Tallis male, my urge to kill them on my (main) anti-Qunari pro-Chantry Hawke who sided with Petrice wouldn't have changed, that list was too dangerous to let return into their hands and Tallis served the Qunari. Outside of my anti-Qunari Hawke, I don't find the character interesting (compared to say, Sten or the Arishok).

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 avril 2012 - 08:08 .