1536 réponses à ce sujet

[Nurot]

Sylvanpyxie wrote...

I said it before on page one but i'm going to expand on it, since i didn't go in-depth before.

It's alright for a character to have issues. In fact it makes it easier to connect with a character with flaws, that shows a certain level of vulnerability. The problem with the Dragon Age II characters having so many issues, was the fact they didn't evolve in the slightest, which left them flawed in a big way for the entire game. ( Example: Fenris would remain angry at the world no matter how you addressed his problems, even if you helped him work through them. )

I have to disagree with you here. Fenris certainly had character evolution. There is this great dialogue with him when he adresses this and I was gonna go into it with more detail until I realised that it is a spoiler. But it is the dialogue he has with Hawke after his last personal quest. Any more evolutuion on his issues than that would have felt lame to me. You are who you are and I would probably be like him if I had had his life.

[hussey 92]

I wanna romance wynne

[Dave of Canada]

hussey 92 wrote...

I wanna romance wynne

Can't romance dead people. ;p

[Maria Caliban]

slashthedragon wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I can't speak for gay men but this shouldn't be a problem for lesbians. Women have been spreading their legs and thinking of England for thousands of years. Most lesbian couples I know want kids and are willing to do whatever is necessary to get them.

I think it is more of a problem in noble and royal families, where the child HAS to be a product of the male and female on the throne.  Now, this doesn't mean that there can't be a king or queen who is actually gay but doing their "duty" while having a lover on the side.

Wait... what?

Queen X married King X, she has a baby. The queen's female lover is a threat because... she might actually be the father?

Or are you picturing a situation where a noble woman's family demands she marries another woman and also produce a legitimate heir between them?

Dave of Canada wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

I wanna romance wynne

Can't romance dead people. ;p

Unless that dead person is Anders. Possibly Leliana.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 avril 2012 - 10:44 .

[Johnny Jaded]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I can't speak for gay men but this shouldn't be a problem for lesbians. Women have been spreading their legs and thinking of England for thousands of years. Most lesbian couples I know want kids and are willing to do whatever is necessary to get them.

Clearly, I am living in a very different England.

On the subject of romances: I'm of the same opinion as Brockololly and others in that I think they should have distinct sexualities and making them all bi cheapens the character.

hussey 92 wrote...

I wanna romance wynne

Actually, that's another thing that I'd like to see BioWare incorporate: older love interests. Having them all be young gets a little tiresome - and possibly even awkward should one decide to roll an older character.

Modifié par Johnny Jaded, 02 avril 2012 - 10:51 .

[BillsVengenace]

The icons in DA2 really sucked a lot of the fun out of the romances. There was none of the surprise and fun in discovering a line of romantic dialogue. There was no feeling that you had actually accomplished something. Just keep picking the heart icon and you're set.

The icon also created a disconnect between the player and the character. Rather than it feeling like a conversation, like in BG2, JE and DA:O, it felt like "Oh there's that heart icon again, guess I've have select that if I want this romance option."

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Johnny Jaded wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I can't speak for gay men but this shouldn't be a problem for lesbians. Women have been spreading their legs and thinking of England for thousands of years. Most lesbian couples I know want kids and are willing to do whatever is necessary to get them.

Clearly, I am living in a very different England.

On the subject of romances: I'm of the same opinion as Brockololly and others in that I think they should have distinct sexualities and making them all bi cheapens the character.

hussey 92 wrote...

I wanna romance wynne

Actually, that's another thing that I'd like to see BioWare incorporate: older love interests. Having them all be young gets a little tiresome - and possibly even awkward should one decide to roll an older character.

Agreed, and this is coming from someone lesbian, not every thing needs to cater to the LBGT community. It does cheapen the personality of the companions. Oh femhawke you're female and you want to bed me though I a female pious chantry type? Ok lets make out.

Just my 2 cents anyway.

Modifié par CoS Sarah Jinstar, 02 avril 2012 - 11:43 .

[Maria Caliban]

Johnny Jaded wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I can't speak for gay men but this shouldn't be a problem for lesbians. Women have been spreading their legs and thinking of England for thousands of years. Most lesbian couples I know want kids and are willing to do whatever is necessary to get them.

Clearly, I am living in a very different England.

Guessing the weather is crap in both of them?

[Johnny Jaded]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Guessing the weather is crap in both of them?

Actually, it's unnaturally sunny. I live in constant fear of the sky catching fire signalling the onset of the apocalypse.

[Artemis_Entrari]

Johnny Jaded wrote...

On the subject of romances: I'm of the same opinion as Brockololly and others in that I think they should have distinct sexualities and making them all bi cheapens the character.

Haven't posted yet in this thread, so I'm probably jumping into the middle of a discussion.  However, I can't agree with this more.

That's not to say there shouldn't be gay or bisexual characters at all, but just that not every romanceable character should automatically swing both ways.

[Maria Caliban]

Johnny Jaded wrote...

On the subject of romances: I'm of the same opinion as Brockololly and others in that I think they should have distinct sexualities and making them all bi cheapens the character.

I'll never complain about a character being available for me to romance.

It probably does cheapen the character on some level but I can't say it bothers me. I romanced Isabela in one playthrough and Merrill in another. Liked both romances. Never thought the characters felt cheap.

What I really want, and I realize this is tangential to the issue, is a friendship path that's every bit as rewarding as the romance path. When Morrigan told my Warden they were friends, it was every bit as meaningful as when Leliana and her snuggled by the campfire.

Garrus went from 'boring dude' to 'best bud' for me in ME 3, and I loved it.

Johnny Jaded wrote...

Actually, it's unnaturally sunny. I live in constant fear of the sky catching fire signalling the onset of the apocalypse.

Best enjoy it before the dead start to rise and stink up the place.

[hussey 92]

Dave of Canada wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

I wanna romance wynne

Can't romance dead people. ;p

I didn't read Asunder, so I consider her alive and well XP

     
           also, your profile pic fits perfectly with that comment X)

[JadeSelket]

BillsVengenace wrote...

The icons in DA2 really sucked a lot of the fun out of the romances. There was none of the surprise and fun in discovering a line of romantic dialogue. There was no feeling that you had actually accomplished something. Just keep picking the heart icon and you're set.

The icon also created a disconnect between the player and the character. Rather than it feeling like a conversation, like in BG2, JE and DA:O, it felt like "Oh there's that heart icon again, guess I've have select that if I want this romance option."

I couldn't agree more. It was nice not to know which option to pick in DA:O because I had to actually think about it. More times than not I spoke the responses out loud before picking one, wondering whether i, or my warden would say this or that. In DA2 it was too basic. Too "1-2-3, follow the yellow brick road", for me.

[Restraint]

David Gaider wrote...

Receiving "quests" to inform the player that there was new dialogue seems like it had the opposite effect of what was intended-- rather than being a convenience, some people saw it as affecting their agency. They no longer felt like they had chosen to speak to the companion, but rather that the companion had chosen to speak with them... so they could only interact with that companion on their terms. So, fair enough. Most likely what we will do is go back to the old method of letting the player initiate dialogues, and keep any telegraphing of a companion's "availability" to something more subtle (like a change in animations).

A subtler form of showing companion availability sounds like a great idea, but in the event that you go back to how it was done in ME2 and (iirc) DA:O, where the player had to check with every companion after each mission, please don't have the refusal dialogue be completely dickish e.g. Jacob and Jack in ME2. Even if it may be in character for the companion, you'd still be asking the player to compensate for a game limitation and then punishing them for it. Jacob especially was annoying enough without the "Already? Not big on forcing these talks, you clingy ****." line.

[Deviija]

I really do not understand the argument against more choices, particularly with romances. It is not as if we are going to get eight romanceable companions, each with a diverse spread of sexualities and each spread being enough to offer a person a choice between at least two companions to choose from. That is too cost-heavy for all the planning, writing, dialogue, and cutscenes. It's really the major reason why I like the bisexual companion route since I find it to be the best compromise available in the interim. However, if there *were* enough resource zots for everyone to have a range of sexualities as well as offering choice to players, then I'd be quite happy with that too.

I never see it as 'cheapening' a character, their romance, or the story it is trying to tell. Any romance is going to be PC-sexual anyway. And the majority of our romances are written gender-neutral as it is. Morrigan's character and her relationship with the Warden would not be radically different if the Warden was a lady, or if the Warden was a dude with Alistair. Alistair would still have had that 'oh, so sorry, I gotta be Kingly now, and produce heirs and stuff' conversation with a dude that he would have with an elf or dwarf PC, and it'd still make sense.

Also, why could it not possible that being bisexual in Thedas is almost as common or as common as being heterosexual in our real world? Mayhaps being bisexual is the usual status quo, and there'd be nothing wrong with that, imo. I suppose I just can't really see what exclusivity brings to the table in terms of character strengthening, or whatever the opposite of 'cheapening' may be.

[slashthedragon]

Deviija wrote...


I really do not understand the argument against more choices, particularly with romances. It is not as if we are going to get eight romanceable companions, each with a diverse spread of sexualities and each spread being enough to offer a person a choice between at least two companions to choose from. That is too cost-heavy for all the planning, writing, dialogue, and cutscenes. It's really the major reason why I like the bisexual companion route since I find it to be the best compromise available in the interim. However, if there *were* enough resource zots for everyone to have a range of sexualities as well as offering choice to players, then I'd be quite happy with that too.

I never see it as 'cheapening' a character, their romance, or the story it is trying to tell. Any romance is going to be PC-sexual anyway. And the majority of our romances are written gender-neutral as it is. Morrigan's character and her relationship with the Warden would not be radically different if the Warden was a lady, or if the Warden was a dude with Alistair. Alistair would still have had that 'oh, so sorry, I gotta be Kingly now, and produce heirs and stuff' conversation with a dude that he would have with an elf or dwarf PC, and it'd still make sense.

Also, why could it not possible that being bisexual in Thedas is almost as common or as common as being heterosexual in our real world? Mayhaps being bisexual is the usual status quo, and there'd be nothing wrong with that, imo. I suppose I just can't really see what exclusivity brings to the table in terms of character strengthening, or whatever the opposite of 'cheapening' may be.

If the romances are all bi, then at least have one gay character *somewhere*, a NPC or non romanceable would be fine.  It just seems odd that there are straight characters and bi characters, but hardly any gay characters present in a large role.  Would be nice.

Modifié par slashthedragon, 03 avril 2012 - 12:25 .

[Johnny Jaded]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It probably does cheapen the character on some level but I can't say it bothers me. I romanced Isabela in one playthrough and Merrill in another. Liked both romances. Never thought the characters felt cheap.

The problem doesn't really arise with any one character , but with the group of LIs. If I was to create a hedonistic character like Zevran, it'd be in his/her nature to flirt with everyone possible, but not everyone is going to respond to it positively. Thus, being able to start a romance with every LI in a single playthrough (even it's only possible to complete it with one) feels unrealistic and draws unecessary attention to the fact that these aren't real people.

Tangetially related, another thing that makes the world feel less real is the excessive reusing of previously seen characters - DA2 brought back no less than 10, some as companions, others as cameos or quest-related NPCs: Anders/Justice, Isabela, Merrill (not to mention the rest of the Marethari clan), Bodahn and Sandal, Cullen, Alistair, Leliana, Delilah & Nathaniel Howe, Sketch, Flemeth (though I'm willing to overlook this one for obvious reasons) - this makes the world feel far smaller than it should to me, as a player.

[Johnny Jaded]

Deviija wrote...

I really do not understand the argument against more choices, particularly with romances.

No one is arguing against more choice, just that characters be more realistic and analogous of the real world as they were in Origins. Though I concede that less choice would technically be a result.

Deviija wrote...

Also, why could it not possible that being bisexual in Thedas is almost as common or as common as being heterosexual in our real world? Mayhaps being bisexual is the usual status quo

Because prior to DA:O's release, Gaider stated that alternate sexualities were as less common than heterosexuality in Thedas as they are in the real world, but merely seen as a quirk rather than taboo.

Modifié par Johnny Jaded, 03 avril 2012 - 12:41 .

[Mark of the Dragon]

As I said on many other threads i just want more interactive companions. I want to be able to go to camp and talk to them whenever I want. I want to be able to learn about there backgrounds and stories. DA2 companions were great but I felt distanced from them cause they were so scheduled, Also there generic phrases killed the feeling they were alive.

Also I would like those special little things that happen after main quests. I loved how Alistair questioned you after the events of Redcliffe and how Leliana started singing after the "Nature of the Beast" quest. It made the character seem like a living person.

In the future I would also like each character to be really different. Like I said DA2 characters were nice but Ander's and Fenris personality seemed to similar for my taste. I also hope that the team tries something reaally different with companions. Be really original. For example one of the companions I want the most is a female kossith warrior (hopefully as a love interest). Not only would it be an out their relationship but we can learn more about the qunari culture and how she defies that. I also would like a talking darkspawn companion. That would be a cool companion to have and we could get an interesting perspective on not only darkspawn but the original magisters like the Architect and Corypheus.

So a List:
1) a female kossith
2)talking darkspawn
3)female dwarf
4)some kind of demon
5)Cullen
and whatever else Bioware comes up with

As far as companions I would liek to see return:
1)Leliana
2)Alistair
3)Morrigan
4)Tallis

[Dejajeva]

If Cullen was a companion I'd play a mage just to romance the **** out of him to make up for my poor Warden who had a huge crush on him and was unable to do anything about it. Of course, she turned out to be Queen, so whatever, she's glad she did, but Cullen needs some love, stat.

I don't know why making characters swing both ways cheapens a character. Their sexuality is only a part of them- does being in a same sex relationship ever even come up in game? I would hope not. It's not what defines a character and having only certain people swing whatever way is then defining that person by his or her sexuality and not by their personality.

I'm not a lesbian, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming most gays and lesbians don't need to define themselves by their sexuality.

If Bioware starts turning in game events into showing prejudice from NPCs against gays and lesbians I'll be very disappointed. There's enough of that in real life.

[Mmw04014]

Deviija wrote...


I really do not understand the argument against more choices, particularly with romances. It is not as if we are going to get eight romanceable companions, each with a diverse spread of sexualities and each spread being enough to offer a person a choice between at least two companions to choose from. That is too cost-heavy for all the planning, writing, dialogue, and cutscenes. It's really the major reason why I like the bisexual companion route since I find it to be the best compromise available in the interim. However, if there *were* enough resource zots for everyone to have a range of sexualities as well as offering choice to players, then I'd be quite happy with that too.

I never see it as 'cheapening' a character, their romance, or the story it is trying to tell. Any romance is going to be PC-sexual anyway. And the majority of our romances are written gender-neutral as it is. Morrigan's character and her relationship with the Warden would not be radically different if the Warden was a lady, or if the Warden was a dude with Alistair. Alistair would still have had that 'oh, so sorry, I gotta be Kingly now, and produce heirs and stuff' conversation with a dude that he would have with an elf or dwarf PC, and it'd still make sense.

Also, why could it not possible that being bisexual in Thedas is almost as common or as common as being heterosexual in our real world? Mayhaps being bisexual is the usual status quo, and there'd be nothing wrong with that, imo. I suppose I just can't really see what exclusivity brings to the table in terms of character strengthening, or whatever the opposite of 'cheapening' may be.

I just enjoy romancing straight characters sometimes. I just do. I don't think we should cut out same sex romances and don't think EVERYONE should be straight, but sometimes I like romancing a character I know is only interested in the opposite gender. I'm sure some gay gamers would like to be able to romance a character that was only interested in thier own sex for once, which is something I'm totally in favor of. I'm actually really proud of Mass Effect 3 for including same sex exclusive romances and I would probably be playing them right now if I had the emotional stamina to put myself through another ME3 run.

Fact is that a man romancing a woman is very different from a man romancing a man and the fact that the game hardly recognizes this is jarring. It also makes the romance feel less special because there are less resources wasted on lots of gender specific lines, lines which I think helped make the Morrigan and Alistair romances so deep. I think even Leliana and Zevran managed to be more gender specific than the all-bi LI's of DA2.

Modifié par Mmw04014, 03 avril 2012 - 12:49 .

[Muirin]

I always like the unexpected. For example, there are a subset of DA:O fans who really got into the idea of a Loghain romance. You'd never expect that at the start of the game, but once you've gotten to the end of it (and with his back story from the books), the idea has a certain... something.

Perhaps too extreme of an example for some tastes, but it would be interesting to have a character that is not a companion to begin with, and whose nature is not at all clear at the start, but who becomes a LI at some point in the game where, perhaps, the PC learns something that completely changes their view of the character.

A kind of 'out of the blue' romance option.

[Dejajeva]

Muirin wrote...

I always like the unexpected. For example, there are a subset of DA:O fans who really got into the idea of a Loghain romance. You'd never expect that at the start of the game, but once you've gotten to the end of it (and with his back story from the books), the idea has a certain... something.

Perhaps too extreme of an example for some tastes, but it would be interesting to have a character that is not a companion to begin with, and whose nature is not at all clear at the start, but who becomes a LI at some point in the game where, perhaps, the PC learns something that completely changes their view of the character.

A kind of 'out of the blue' romance option.

Like Teagan.

[Muirin]

Dejajeva wrote...

Like Teagan.

Oh yeah,  Teagan!  
Just think how much joy a little unexpected romance would have given us right there.

Modifié par Muirin, 03 avril 2012 - 01:07 .

[LolaLei]

I'd like to see Cullen as a companion/love interest, I think he would have a really interesting story/romance arc. If done correctly I think it would be really interesting to delve deeper into his personality, watch him battle with his duty as a templar and his feelings for the new playable character (especially if you play as a mage) and maybe give him a chance to redeem himself for his past actions in Kirkwall and past events of DA:O.

The plus side to having him as a companion is that the fan girls and boys get some templar lovin' (who doesn't love forbidden fruit!) AND the people that hate him get to insult him or maybe kill him off LOL. Win-win situation.

Aside from that I think I'd like the romances to be more indepth, with little gestures throughout the game like the way they interact with eachother, little touches etc.