194 réponses à ce sujet

[bboynexus]

ryuasiu wrote...

Also as far as the statues are concerned I never thought they were the protheans. The first thing I thought was if it was possibly the gods they might have worshiped.

Great point!

The statues were always quite strange to me. If they were Prothean it would be self-serving to the extreme.

Modifié par bboynexus, 02 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[Zuka999]

Nobrandminda wrote...

You missed the point.  Except for the Ilos Statues thing, they didn't change anything.  

The whole point was for Javik to mess with your preconceptions about what you thought protheans would be like, and you fell for it hard.

You basically are Liara.

My issues are less with the fact that they were changed at all and more with the fact that the changes were to something that I don't think fits with the information we were already given. Great scientists working to save the lives of future cycles don't really fit with an empire that goes around with no qualms about killing its subjects to make them obey and submit to being "Prothean".

Something about Javik just doesn't fit with the motives of the scientists we hear about on Ilos. It just doesn't add up to me. Maybe I read too much into economics and politics.

[Documental]

Protheans weren't one species, it was a collection of species. If the Prothean empire was still around when the humans, asari and turians evolved to their current state, they'd have been offered into the empire and would have also been called Protheans.

I'm sure Javik tells you this.

[BARRAGE 74]

Javik was just one Prothean.  I'm sure there were many accents and dialects amongst the Protheans as we do in real life.  The VI's were just yet another small glimpse into Prothean culture.

[AntonioA9011]

Yearlongjester wrote...

They were social Darwinists, not power-hungry oppressors. There's a fine difference but it shows that they were pretty intelligent, if brutal. Also Javik isn't the best representative, he's a lifelong soldier living after their empire fell to the Reapers struggling to survive. He wasn't picked for being nice or because he was diplomatic, he was picked because he was an uncompromising bastard who would make sure the Reapers wouldn't take another cycle.

Basically he was the Prothean's Shepard. Would Shepard necessarily be the best rep for our species?

^^^^

Mmm-hmmm, this

[J717]

I'm pretty sure that BioWare did in fact retcon the Protheans...

Somewhere along the way, someone probably thought, "wouldn't it be cool if the Collectors WERE Protheans?!" and incorporated it into the story, and it was probably too late to change the "bug-like" looks of the Collectors...so they changed the Protheans to resemble a Collector instead....

They WERE supposed to be the tentacle-faced creatures on Ilos (those were not the Inusannon, the ME1 art book even says they are Protheans).

Hence, the BLATANTLY LAZY changes in flashbacks between ME1 and ME2:

Modifié par J717, 02 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[Zuka999]

Documental wrote...

Protheans weren't one species, it was a collection of species. If the Prothean empire was still around when the humans, asari and turians evolved to their current state, they'd have been offered into the empire and would have also been called Protheans.

I'm sure Javik tells you this.

Are we ever even told whether Javik is an actual Prothean or just a subjugated species who calls himself a Prothean?

[bboynexus]

I predicted the whole 'Prothean being a conglomerate of species' before ME3 was released.

[Documental]

Zuka999 wrote...

Documental wrote...

Protheans weren't one species, it was a collection of species. If the Prothean empire was still around when the humans, asari and turians evolved to their current state, they'd have been offered into the empire and would have also been called Protheans.

I'm sure Javik tells you this.

Are we ever even told whether Javik is an actual Prothean or just a subjugated species who calls himself a Prothean?

I'm assuming he's an original, I'm not sure but you get what I mean aye?

[Gill Kaiser]

Zuka999 wrote...

Documental wrote...

Protheans weren't one species, it was a collection of species. If the Prothean empire was still around when the humans, asari and turians evolved to their current state, they'd have been offered into the empire and would have also been called Protheans.

I'm sure Javik tells you this.

Are we ever even told whether Javik is an actual Prothean or just a subjugated species who calls himself a Prothean?

Javik is a member of the original, dominant Prothean species. The same species the Collectors were created from.

[bobbity123]

bboynexus wrote...

The 'African' accent is actually very clever, given Prothean intervention on Cro-Magnon humans who originated in...

AFRICA.

THANK YOU!!

I swear everyone else is just stupid, It is pretty clear why they made him have a AFRICAN(not goddamn jamacan) accent. It's stated in he game that there is a good likely hood that the evolution was tampered with by protheans, does it not make sense for the protheans to have the african accent (or rather the other way round) ?

[BARRAGE 74]

Zuka999 wrote...

Nobrandminda wrote...

You missed the point.  Except for the Ilos Statues thing, they didn't change anything.  

The whole point was for Javik to mess with your preconceptions about what you thought protheans would be like, and you fell for it hard.

You basically are Liara.

My issues are less with the fact that they were changed at all and more with the fact that the changes were to something that I don't think fits with the information we were already given. Great scientists working to save the lives of future cycles don't really fit with an empire that goes around with no qualms about killing its subjects to make them obey and submit to being "Prothean".

Something about Javik just doesn't fit with the motives of the scientists we hear about on Ilos. It just doesn't add up to me. Maybe I read too much into economics and politics.

The ****'s had great scientists.  Rulers don't always have to be benevolent to have a thirst for knowledge.

[Admiral H. Cain]

Zuka999 wrote...

Javik basically contradicts everything we already knew about the Protheans. I get that they weren't a known quantity, really, but.. why do they have Jamaican accents or whatever? We had already talked to Prothean VIs and heard them speaking in Mass Effect 1. They sound more like they have transatlantic accents with a dash of regality.

And why were we led to believe they were some sort of highly advanced species with great scientists if they're going to turn around and show that they were a brutal empire that subjugated everyone around them and was beaten by its own lack of diversity? When was the last time a brutal empire supported endeavors into science? I mean, we're talking about the species that almost broke the cycle.

And then there are the statues on Ilos. Why did they look the way they did? They had the tentacled beards and stuff, they looked cool. Like they had immolated themselves en masse and been left like the Romans at Pompeii. Instead, they're.. whatever Javik is. He doesn't stand out at all. Why did the Protheans have all of these statues everywhere if they weren't even related to them in the slightest?

I feel like the writers quietly retconned half of what made ME1 so compelling to begin with..

First, Javik has a Kenyan accent.

Second, why can't Protheans have different accents? Look at how many accents we have on Earth, for example.

Third, you can have BOTH brilliant scientists AND be absolutely brutal. I hate to evoke Godwin's Law, but look at the ****'s for an absolutely perfect real world example. (Apparently N*zi is censored).

Fourth, it's likely that the statues on Ilos are from whatever civilization the Protheans built "under." Ilos was a secret underground base for the Protheans, not a full civilization. They didn't touch the remains of the former civilization.

Conclusion / tl;dr: They didn't change them.

Modifié par Admiral H. Cain, 02 avril 2012 - 01:46 .

[Dendio1]

Zuka999 wrote...

Javik basically contradicts everything we already knew about the Protheans. I get that they weren't a known quantity, really, but.. why do they have Jamaican accents or whatever? We had already talked to Prothean VIs and heard them speaking in Mass Effect 1. They sound more like they have transatlantic accents with a dash of regality.

And why were we led to believe they were some sort of highly advanced species with great scientists if they're going to turn around and show that they were a brutal empire that subjugated everyone around them and was beaten by its own lack of diversity? When was the last time a brutal empire supported endeavors into science? I mean, we're talking about the species that almost broke the cycle.

And then there are the statues on Ilos. Why did they look the way they did? They had the tentacled beards and stuff, they looked cool. Like they had immolated themselves en masse and been left like the Romans at Pompeii. Instead, they're.. whatever Javik is. He doesn't stand out at all. Why did the Protheans have all of these statues everywhere if they weren't even related to them in the slightest?

I feel like the writers quietly retconned half of what made ME1 so compelling to begin with..

Calling Javik's accent jamaican makes you sound ignorant. The dialect is clearly african. Javik said many different races all called themselves prothean. Perhaps thier unity was not limited by petty things like race.

Modifié par Dendio1, 02 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

[Mcfly616]

Javik's accent is African....particularly south African....not Jamaican....

[Raven4030-2]

Zuka999 wrote...

This isn't what I'm suggesting. We are basically going to take at face value that a system that has never once worked in the only species we actually in reality have to compare it to - humanity - somehow produced the scientists that broke a cycle that is billions of years old? I'm sorry, but from what I gathered the Protheans had such contradictary issues in fighting the Reapers. The writers seemed to originally intend for them to be the Ilos statues. They seemed to originally intend for them to be a hyper-advanced species that united the galaxy and then still had its asses handed to them, but had such great minds that they came up with a solution to end the cycle forever.

Actually, Empire building was the standard for almost all of human history. Every civilization up until the 20th century has sought to expand influence and territory, most commonly through direct governance but most recently through trade. In fact, I could argue that the United States has built an informal Empire that would have made 19th century England green with envy.

And let's not forget that the most advanced civilization on the planet up until around the 17th or 18th century (the Chinese if you're wondering) was built on Empires that would periodically fall only to be replaced by a new Empire (each Empire contributing something significant to Chinese culture, and yes even science). Their eventual loss in superiority stemmed not from Imperialism, but from a cultural arrogance that resulted in them believing themselves the center of the world (Literally. The Chinese term for their own country better translates to "Middle Kingdom").

So yah... your knowledge of history is flawed.

As for the accents:
Javik is actually speaking English. So unless you know what the Prothean language sounded like and have the data to do an advanced linguistics study (you don't), it doesn't stretch the imagination to guess that he speaks English with what sounds like an East African accent.

As far as accents in general, I just always imagined the translator spits out the closest approximation it can of your language spoken in the voice of whoever you are talking to. The purpose of doing this is so that two people who speak different languages can still recognize eachother by the sound of their "voice". For example: I imagine the guy from Lyon who speaks with the Batarian is actually speaking French and Shepard's translator spits out his words in English with a French accent.

Modifié par Raven4030-2, 02 avril 2012 - 01:49 .

[Bill Casey]

Zuka999 wrote...

why do they have Jamaican accents or whatever?

It's a Nigerian accent...

When was the last time a brutal empire supported endeavors into science?

Soviet Union...

[Gill Kaiser]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Javik's accent is African....particularly south African....not Jamaican....

Haha, it's definitely not south african.

[Dendio1]

J717 wrote...

I'm pretty sure that BioWare did in fact retcon the Protheans...

Somewhere along the way, someone probably thought, "wouldn't it be cool if the Collectors WERE Protheans?!" and incorporated it into the story, and it was probably too late to change the "bug-like" looks of the Collectors...so they changed the Protheans to resemble a Collector instead....

They WERE supposed to be the tentacle-faced creatures on Ilos (those were not the Inusannon, the ME1 art book even says they are Protheans).

Hence, the BLATANTLY LAZY changes in flashbacks between ME1 and ME2:

Doesnt look lazy to me. Looks more than sufficient. Had you not gone out of your way to state the difference I would never have known, nor cared.

[Mcfly616]

No brutal regimes have good scientists? Have you been living under a rock? Lol

Iran, N. Korea, China, Russia.....

Shall I keep going? Or do you plan on reading up on some current events?

[vikingsberg]

Clearly they're were multiple species in the prothean empire. Thus any images of what the protheans could of looked like in ME1&2 could be the "lesser" races of the empire.

[TarielMaeda]

J717 wrote...

Oh lord you can still see the head of the original ceature poking out of the shoulder on the one on the right.

[Zuka999]

Wait, a lot of you guys are actually seriously bringing up the Third Reich as an example of a country that advanced science but was also brutal? You're.. joking.. right? None of their experiments on humans advanced science in any meaningful way. Their military advances were ridiculous and almost always scrapped, save for minor rocket advances that were overcome by the Allies anyways. They also sent out groups to find Biblical artifacts so they could use them as weapons. All of the so called great minds of Germany at the time ended up working for other countries where their works weren't suppressed.

You guys might want to try again. Godwin's Law is too true.

[J717]

Dendio1 wrote...

J717 wrote...

I'm pretty sure that BioWare did in fact retcon the Protheans...

Somewhere along the way, someone probably thought, "wouldn't it be cool if the Collectors WERE Protheans?!" and incorporated it into the story, and it was probably too late to change the "bug-like" looks of the Collectors...so they changed the Protheans to resemble a Collector instead....

They WERE supposed to be the tentacle-faced creatures on Ilos (those were not the Inusannon, the ME1 art book even says they are Protheans).

Hence, the BLATANTLY LAZY changes in flashbacks between ME1 and ME2:

Doesnt look lazy to me. Looks more than sufficient. Had you not gone out of your way to state the difference I would never have known, nor cared.

My goal wasn't to get you to care. And yes, they pasted right over the old model...how is that not lazy?

Nothing you said invalidates the fact that they retconned the Protheans....and again, whether or not you care is irrelevant to my post. It was not a validity-seeking statement. 

TarielMaeda wrote...

Oh lord you can still see the head of the original ceature poking out of the shoulder on the one on the right.

 

Like I said....lazy!

Modifié par J717, 02 avril 2012 - 01:53 .

[Bill Casey]

I really like the reveal that the Protheans were a bunch of self righteous imperialist jerkheads and not just these wise and noble ancients...


It's up there with Legion casting new light on the Geth...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 02 avril 2012 - 01:55 .