350 réponses à ce sujet

[Legendaryred]

Olueq wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

Strategyking92 wrote...

at the end of the day, mass effect 1 & 2 made me very unsympathetic towards the geth. I would have destroyed all of them with only just a slight guilt about it. However, if I were to let the geth destroy the quarians.....


No, that's not even a possibility. organics>VI's
(The geth were only clusters of VI's without reaper tech which turned them into AI's)

I don't remember the council passing laws forbidding the development of VIs, i remember them passing laws that forbid the development of AIs after the geth/quarian war.
The Geth were self aware AI by the end of the morning war, the reaper upgrades gave them individuality.

the law against AIs was in place BEFORE the morning war. More incentive for the quarians to shut them down once they became sentient.

With invasion by the geth an immediate threat, the Council refused the
quarians' pleas for help and revoked their Citadel embassy, and also
implemented restrictive laws on AI research and development.

[sirisaacx]

moater boat wrote...
My argument is not flawed. The discussion was specifically regarding self awareness. My dog is self aware, self awareness alone should not guarantee equal rights.

Now if you wanted to say that there is a certain cutoff point in intelligence that defines where something has rights, that is a whole other matter that has its own set of problems. The computer I am using right now is, in many ways, smarter than me. That doesn't give it rights. Ergo there is something beyond both intelligence and self awareness that makes something a living creature deserving of rights.

Hmm. What, in your opinion, makes that distinction, if not intelligence and self awareness? Perhaps it is both. My computer is intelligent, but not self aware. My dog is self aware but not intelligent. I think a reasonable quantity of both gives something the right to live.

[moater boat]

Funkdrspot wrote...

moater boat wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

It happened over three hundred years ago. This would be like blaming white people currently living in America for slavery...

People who have no formal training or education on issues of a social/anthropology/economic nature should really not ever talk about them. You can't bring up slavery without looking at Jim Crow and that only FORMALLY ended in 1965 and held out much longer in the private sector until the late 80's

Plus, you can't simultaneously absolve responsibility without restitution for the said benefit/consequence of those choices. You can't rape, pillage and steal for hundreds of years then wash your hands of the matter 100 yrs later as your decendents benefit from those choices. As i stated before, To absolve yourself of your decendents choices, you would have to also give back or pay restitution for that which you benefitted from.

Let's keep modern day politics out of the discussion so I don't have to absolutely destroy any silly liberal arguments.

He is eloquent about his argument though, flawed or not.

eloquent, concieted and wrong, a very dangerous combination.

....Says the man that personifies concieted in his very first response. Besides, i never started it, only responded.

It's not conceit if you are right and you can back it up

[FirstCitizen800]

The Stabilo Boss wrote...

What I found bizarre was that the Geth were portrayed as cute cuddly victims of the evil Quarians genocidal war... and yet, the Geth somehow reduced a population of billions of Quarians to just 17 million? It seems strange to me that they managed to do that in "self defence." I mean, to reduce the population of humans to that number, you'd have to kill a huge chunk of civilians, women, children, cancer patients etc.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I preferred the ME1 and 2 "both sides were in the wrong" way of presenting the Morning War.

Good point, but sense we didn't see that "on-screen" people don't think about it. We also don't know how long the Morning War lasted. If, back on the Normandy, Tali had played for clips of young quarian teenagers, trying to defend their little sisters and brothers in caves from Geth assaults 10 years later, trading their spaces on the fleeing ships so that little sis can hitch the ride instead, people's opinions might swing again. Or the Morning War lasting about 10 seconds, with a skynet like sneak attack.

Obviously civilians die in war, at least on the organic side. (Do the Geth have civilians) And you can't really blame the Geth for fighting for their freedom. But really can't imagine the Quarians didn't offer surrender terms before 99% of their people were dead. Nothing in the way they were portrayed suggested they wouldn't break like any other nation after suffering a horrendous level of casualties significantly below the extinction level. (Hell, for humans, 10% of the population Wounded and KIA tends to be the shatterpoint)

[Olueq]

[quote]Funkdrspot wrote...

[quote]Olueq wrote...

[quote]

[/quote]

It WAS a suicide run the second the geth decided not to be wiped out. They could have retreated and decided to be stupid. They could have retreated a SECOND time and decided to be stupid again and in some people's games they paid the price.

Lucky for them my Shepard is a MFing superhero paragon and verbally D-slapped Gerrel. I wish there was an option to invite him onto my ship a 2nd time so I could put a bullet in his brain.

[/quote]
Did you even READ what I said?
They were winning so it WASNT a suicide run  until the geth sided with the reapers and even then they wanted to retreat but didnt because ONE person (gerrel) forced them to stay.
next time please read what I say before making yourelf look stupid.

[/quote]

I read it and responded. The second the geth sided with the reapers it became suicide. They had the option to retreat when Shepard got on board and chose not to and decided they'd rather blow up the ship than secure the safety of their people. BECAUSE of that action, i was forced to save their civie fleet a SECOND time when the Geth launched a counter attack squadron which i disabled. Then they did it a 3rd time and were even warned that the reaper code was about to be uploaded.

The other admirals did not have to listen to that ONE person. Futhermore, the people of his fleet could have removed him as admiral if they felt compelled. They didn't.

0 pitty points awarded for cutting off your nose to spite your face.
[/quote]
No kidding but at that point it was too late for them to retreat. I also think you didnt actually listen to any of the dialogue on any of the rannoch mision (or you more liekly didnt comprehend the dialogue). Gerrel CLEARLY states that if he fights alone, his fleet will get detroyed which would then lead to the other flett falling as well. Shala rann even yells at him for forcing them to stay. How did you miss that? Gerrel forced them to stay and is the reason they were cut off and the reason shepard had to detroy the reaper. Again though, only gerrel wanted to stay so youa re saying millions of innocent deerve to die because of gerrel. really, please try PLAYING the game before you make yourself look even dumber.

[IntrepidDeath]

Olueq wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

The quarians killed themselves and caused my geth friend and my quarian friend to commit suicide. **** quarians.

Not even one dissenting voice in the quarian fleet besides Tali, and despite her good intentions she was ineffective (as usual).

so you killed millions of innocent people? The only reason the quarians were in that situation at the end was becaue gerrel wouldnt let the fleet fall back. Honestly, the stupidity of some people is astounding.

Well the geth were innocents too, were they not?

Well

The geth killed million/billions of innocents during the morning war adn theya re still active after 300 years

They have no emotion and do not experience pain

geth can still be useful when deactivated as their technology still exists

they have proven time and time again that they can be manipulated and not just by reapers

they also have a bad habit of joining the reapers. whats to stop them from turning on you once thew reapers get the upper hand int he final fight?

The geth do experience emotion, though it doesn't seem to be quite in the same way as us. It's played with any time Shepard and Legion interact. The geth admire the concept of hope. They fear death. Legion doesn't have words to describe why it chose to use and keep Shepard's armor.

Also, who else, aside from reapers, have manipulated the geth? And if the geth can be manipulated by reapers, so what? How much of the third game is spent fighting against Cerberus, who are doing what they're doing heavily because they're being manipulated by reapers? If anything, I'd be more concerned that indoctrinated organics would turn on me in the final battle than the geth would. I trust that when the geth say that they're going to do something, like assist me in the war against the reapers, they understand what they're getting into and they're going to do it. Can you say the same about everyone else you're gathering to fight the reapers?

[sirisaacx]

Olueq wrote...

This does not apply to the quarians because they died 300 year ago, this DOES apply to the geth because the ones responsible are STILL there. Please read next time.

Well they are still there to an extent, but I'd wager that when they each become individual machines, whatever views shared by the hivemind would not necessarily be echoed by the new form of Geth.

They would essentially have wiped the slate clean, or at least, started on the path to divergent opinions.

[Funkdrspot]

moater boat wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

moater boat wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

It happened over three hundred years ago. This would be like blaming white people currently living in America for slavery...

People who have no formal training or education on issues of a social/anthropology/economic nature should really not ever talk about them. You can't bring up slavery without looking at Jim Crow and that only FORMALLY ended in 1965 and held out much longer in the private sector until the late 80's

Plus, you can't simultaneously absolve responsibility without restitution for the said benefit/consequence of those choices. You can't rape, pillage and steal for hundreds of years then wash your hands of the matter 100 yrs later as your decendents benefit from those choices. As i stated before, To absolve yourself of your decendents choices, you would have to also give back or pay restitution for that which you benefitted from.

Let's keep modern day politics out of the discussion so I don't have to absolutely destroy any silly liberal arguments.

He is eloquent about his argument though, flawed or not.

eloquent, concieted and wrong, a very dangerous combination.

....Says the man that personifies concieted in his very first response. Besides, i never started it, only responded.

It's not conceit if you are right and you can back it up

Says the man who didn't bother to back himself up. Call names all you like but my point is valid and there's nothing 'liberal' about it. It's a fairly simple concept that applies universally to all people.

[Olueq]

Legendaryred wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

Strategyking92 wrote...

at the end of the day, mass effect 1 & 2 made me very unsympathetic towards the geth. I would have destroyed all of them with only just a slight guilt about it. However, if I were to let the geth destroy the quarians.....


No, that's not even a possibility. organics>VI's
(The geth were only clusters of VI's without reaper tech which turned them into AI's)

I don't remember the council passing laws forbidding the development of VIs, i remember them passing laws that forbid the development of AIs after the geth/quarian war.
The Geth were self aware AI by the end of the morning war, the reaper upgrades gave them individuality.

the law against AIs was in place BEFORE the morning war. More incentive for the quarians to shut them down once they became sentient.

With invasion by the geth an immediate threat, the Council refused the
quarians' pleas for help and revoked their Citadel embassy, and also
implemented restrictive laws on AI research and development.

That must be a retcon because you can talk to Tali in ME1 and bring up the fact that AI researcch is illegal and she says

``Ìt wasnt true AI, them becoming sentient was unforseen`` or something like that, and THAT is the reason the council didnt help them.

[Olueq]

IntrepidDeath wrote...

Olueq wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

The quarians killed themselves and caused my geth friend and my quarian friend to commit suicide. **** quarians.

Not even one dissenting voice in the quarian fleet besides Tali, and despite her good intentions she was ineffective (as usual).

so you killed millions of innocent people? The only reason the quarians were in that situation at the end was becaue gerrel wouldnt let the fleet fall back. Honestly, the stupidity of some people is astounding.

Well the geth were innocents too, were they not?

Well

The geth killed million/billions of innocents during the morning war adn theya re still active after 300 years

They have no emotion and do not experience pain

geth can still be useful when deactivated as their technology still exists

they have proven time and time again that they can be manipulated and not just by reapers

they also have a bad habit of joining the reapers. whats to stop them from turning on you once thew reapers get the upper hand int he final fight?

The geth do experience emotion, though it doesn't seem to be quite in the same way as us. It's played with any time Shepard and Legion interact. The geth admire the concept of hope. They fear death. Legion doesn't have words to describe why it chose to use and keep Shepard's armor.

Also, who else, aside from reapers, have manipulated the geth? And if the geth can be manipulated by reapers, so what? How much of the third game is spent fighting against Cerberus, who are doing what they're doing heavily because they're being manipulated by reapers? If anything, I'd be more concerned that indoctrinated organics would turn on me in the final battle than the geth would. I trust that when the geth say that they're going to do something, like assist me in the war against the reapers, they understand what they're getting into and they're going to do it. Can you say the same about everyone else you're gathering to fight the reapers?

Oh give me a break, Overlord prove they can be manipulated not to mention AI hacking in game.

[OchreJelly]

*Puts story-goggles on*

As I've stated before on this subject, you're assuming from a narrative standpoint that ALL quarians know all about the original circumstances behind the geth extermination and subsequent revolt nevermind the intimate details that the player finds out about in the 3rd game.

As in, most were minding their own business, then suddenly war, near-extinction, and a massive cultural and technological shift. Then 3 centuries pass, so the precise truth has been lost and some natural prejudice has been created.

From a story standpoint they're both at fault for continuing the fighting, though the core blame lies with the initial quarians (not the ones born centuries later.) Even the non-heretic geth, a distinction nobody knew existed except Shepard's crewmates, killed those who approached their territory.

The eagerness of some to black-white the conflict, and make entire races pay for their ancestor's actions is... kinda disturbing. :|

*Removes story goggles*

The quarians seem to come off as bigger morons than they were in prior games simply because BioWare changed up the geth/quarian storyline a bit. Serious business! \\o/

Modifié par OchreJelly, 02 avril 2012 - 07:11 .

[Psythorn]

blah64 wrote...

Not in the least. I'm just sorry the Quarians didn't suceed in the first place. It would have saved them alot of trouble. I don't believe AIs or synthetics are ever truly alive, hence destroying one is no more wrong than trashing your computer.

So this is a highly philisophical question:
If a AI or whatever would develop self-consciousness and free will - you would not consider it beeing truly alive ? Please do not take offence as this is a highly theoretical question - but would'nt that be a form of racism ?

[sirisaacx]

Olueq wrote...

IntrepidDeath wrote...

Olueq wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

The quarians killed themselves and caused my geth friend and my quarian friend to commit suicide. **** quarians.

Not even one dissenting voice in the quarian fleet besides Tali, and despite her good intentions she was ineffective (as usual).

so you killed millions of innocent people? The only reason the quarians were in that situation at the end was becaue gerrel wouldnt let the fleet fall back. Honestly, the stupidity of some people is astounding.

Well the geth were innocents too, were they not?

Well

The geth killed million/billions of innocents during the morning war adn theya re still active after 300 years

They have no emotion and do not experience pain

geth can still be useful when deactivated as their technology still exists

they have proven time and time again that they can be manipulated and not just by reapers

they also have a bad habit of joining the reapers. whats to stop them from turning on you once thew reapers get the upper hand int he final fight?

The geth do experience emotion, though it doesn't seem to be quite in the same way as us. It's played with any time Shepard and Legion interact. The geth admire the concept of hope. They fear death. Legion doesn't have words to describe why it chose to use and keep Shepard's armor.

Also, who else, aside from reapers, have manipulated the geth? And if the geth can be manipulated by reapers, so what? How much of the third game is spent fighting against Cerberus, who are doing what they're doing heavily because they're being manipulated by reapers? If anything, I'd be more concerned that indoctrinated organics would turn on me in the final battle than the geth would. I trust that when the geth say that they're going to do something, like assist me in the war against the reapers, they understand what they're getting into and they're going to do it. Can you say the same about everyone else you're gathering to fight the reapers?

Oh give me a break, Overlord prove they can be manipulated not to mention AI hacking in game.

I think his point is that organic life is just as succeptible to manipulation and indoctrination as synthetic life. Especially if TIM's indoctrination magic becomes widespread.

[FirstCitizen800]

Funkdrspot wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

moater boat wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Admiral H. Cain wrote...

It happened over three hundred years ago. This would be like blaming white people currently living in America for slavery...

People who have no formal training or education on issues of a social/anthropology/economic nature should really not ever talk about them. You can't bring up slavery without looking at Jim Crow and that only FORMALLY ended in 1965 and held out much longer in the private sector until the late 80's

Plus, you can't simultaneously absolve responsibility without restitution for the said benefit/consequence of those choices. You can't rape, pillage and steal for hundreds of years then wash your hands of the matter 100 yrs later as your decendents benefit from those choices. As i stated before, To absolve yourself of your decendents choices, you would have to also give back or pay restitution for that which you benefitted from.

Let's keep modern day politics out of the discussion so I don't have to absolutely destroy any silly liberal arguments.

He is eloquent about his argument though, flawed or not.

eloquent, concieted and wrong, a very dangerous combination.

....Says the man that personifies concieted in his very first response. Besides, i never started it, only responded.

It's not conceit if you are right and you can back it up

Says the man who didn't bother to back himself up. Call names all you like but my point is valid and there's nothing 'liberal' about it. It's a fairly simple concept that applies universally to all people.

Lol, I'm sure there's better forums to cheer for you favorite football teams, er, I mean political parties.

[Legendaryred]

Olueq wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

Strategyking92 wrote...

at the end of the day, mass effect 1 & 2 made me very unsympathetic towards the geth. I would have destroyed all of them with only just a slight guilt about it. However, if I were to let the geth destroy the quarians.....


No, that's not even a possibility. organics>VI's
(The geth were only clusters of VI's without reaper tech which turned them into AI's)

I don't remember the council passing laws forbidding the development of VIs, i remember them passing laws that forbid the development of AIs after the geth/quarian war.
The Geth were self aware AI by the end of the morning war, the reaper upgrades gave them individuality.

the law against AIs was in place BEFORE the morning war. More incentive for the quarians to shut them down once they became sentient.

With invasion by the geth an immediate threat, the Council refused the
quarians' pleas for help and revoked their Citadel embassy, and also
implemented restrictive laws on AI research and development.

That must be a retcon because you can talk to Tali in ME1 and bring up the fact that AI researcch is illegal and she says

``Ìt wasnt true AI, them becoming sentient was unforseen`` or something like that, and THAT is the reason the council didnt help them.

I'm not sure then, why would there already be restrictions though? The only big thing before the geth/quarian conflict were the rachni wars, before that the Council was too young.According to Legion during a conversation with Commander Shepard and EDI in Mass Effect 2,
in the year 2485 of the quarian calendar, Hala'Dama, a quarian overseer
of geth workers, was asked by a geth whether it had a soul and what its
purpose was. While not the first quarian to be asked such a question,
she was the first to react with fear.
By repeatedly tweaking the geth's systems, the quarians had inadvertently allowed the geth to evolve into an Artificial Intelligence,
thus becoming sentient. In response, the quarian government ordered an
immediate termination of all geth programs. However, a number of
quarians opposed such rash action, reasoning that their society needed
the geth and that it was no crime for them to be questioning their
existence.
I'm quoting what the wiki says though.

[Strategyking92]

Legendaryred wrote...

Strategyking92 wrote...

at the end of the day, mass effect 1 & 2 made me very unsympathetic towards the geth. I would have destroyed all of them with only just a slight guilt about it. However, if I were to let the geth destroy the quarians.....


No, that's not even a possibility. organics>VI's
(The geth were only clusters of VI's without reaper tech which turned them into AI's)

I don't remember the council passing laws forbidding the development of VIs, i remember them passing laws that forbid the development of AIs after the geth/quarian war.
The Geth were self aware AI by the end of the morning war, the reaper upgrades gave them individuality.

I fail to see a point here. A single geth is a VI, whereas a cluster of geth (several VI's) has increased intelligence due to processing power. Self aware, perhaps, but this does not mean it can qualify as a living entity.

[sirisaacx]

Digressing for a moment, there's a lot of fantastic points and great debate in this thread. I'm thoroughly enjoying it. It's of a much higher caliber than the average BSN topic.

[Funkdrspot]

Olueq wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Olueq wrote...

It WAS a suicide run the second the geth decided not to be wiped out. They could have retreated and decided to be stupid. They could have retreated a SECOND time and decided to be stupid again and in some people's games they paid the price.

Lucky for them my Shepard is a MFing superhero paragon and verbally D-slapped Gerrel. I wish there was an option to invite him onto my ship a 2nd time so I could put a bullet in his brain.

Did you even READ what I said?
They were winning so it WASNT a suicide run  until the geth sided with the reapers and even then they wanted to retreat but didnt because ONE person (gerrel) forced them to stay.
next time please read what I say before making yourelf look stupid.

I read it and responded. The second the geth sided with the reapers it became suicide. They had the option to retreat when Shepard got on board and chose not to and decided they'd rather blow up the ship than secure the safety of their people. BECAUSE of that action, i was forced to save their civie fleet a SECOND time when the Geth launched a counter attack squadron which i disabled. Then they did it a 3rd time and were even warned that the reaper code was about to be uploaded.

The other admirals did not have to listen to that ONE person. Futhermore, the people of his fleet could have removed him as admiral if they felt compelled. They didn't.

0 pitty points awarded for cutting off your nose to spite your face.

No kidding but at that point it was too late for them to retreat. I also think you didnt actually listen to any of the dialogue on any of the rannoch mision (or you more liekly didnt comprehend the dialogue). Gerrel CLEARLY states that if he fights alone, his fleet will get detroyed which would then lead to the other flett falling as well. Shala rann even yells at him for forcing them to stay. How did you miss that? Gerrel forced them to stay and is the reason they were cut off and the reason shepard had to detroy the reaper. Again though, only gerrel wanted to stay so youa re saying millions of innocent deerve to die because of gerrel. really, please try PLAYING the game before you make yourself look even dumber.

U mad? Quit calling names like a child.

- It was too late for them to retreat BEFORE Shepard boarded the big geth cruiser. The plan was to evac the people when it was disabled.

- I listened to the dialogue. IIRC that dialogue was AFTER you land on Rannock and disable the AA guns and involved JUST his fleet being destroyed. Either way, the choice was penny wise and pound foolish. Save the heavy fleet while simultaneously putting the civies at risk? Stupid decision. He bluffed and she bit. If her fleet had pulled back, he would have too because he's a coward.

[Legendaryred]

sirisaacx wrote...

Olueq wrote...

IntrepidDeath wrote...

Olueq wrote...

sirisaacx wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

The quarians killed themselves and caused my geth friend and my quarian friend to commit suicide. **** quarians.

Not even one dissenting voice in the quarian fleet besides Tali, and despite her good intentions she was ineffective (as usual).

so you killed millions of innocent people? The only reason the quarians were in that situation at the end was becaue gerrel wouldnt let the fleet fall back. Honestly, the stupidity of some people is astounding.

Well the geth were innocents too, were they not?

Well

The geth killed million/billions of innocents during the morning war adn theya re still active after 300 years

They have no emotion and do not experience pain

geth can still be useful when deactivated as their technology still exists

they have proven time and time again that they can be manipulated and not just by reapers

they also have a bad habit of joining the reapers. whats to stop them from turning on you once thew reapers get the upper hand int he final fight?

The geth do experience emotion, though it doesn't seem to be quite in the same way as us. It's played with any time Shepard and Legion interact. The geth admire the concept of hope. They fear death. Legion doesn't have words to describe why it chose to use and keep Shepard's armor.

Also, who else, aside from reapers, have manipulated the geth? And if the geth can be manipulated by reapers, so what? How much of the third game is spent fighting against Cerberus, who are doing what they're doing heavily because they're being manipulated by reapers? If anything, I'd be more concerned that indoctrinated organics would turn on me in the final battle than the geth would. I trust that when the geth say that they're going to do something, like assist me in the war against the reapers, they understand what they're getting into and they're going to do it. Can you say the same about everyone else you're gathering to fight the reapers?

Oh give me a break, Overlord prove they can be manipulated not to mention AI hacking in game.

I think his point is that organic life is just as succeptible to manipulation and indoctrination as synthetic life. Especially if TIM's indoctrination magic becomes widespread.

I agree, organics are just as weak when it comes to manipulation. How do you think there are terrorists or gangs or religious cults. The reapers have indoctrinated not only the geth (hacking) but the asari, salarians, turians, humans, and every other organic that has ever existed. Can't really judge somebody just because they can be manipulated.

[IntrepidDeath]

Olueq wrote...

Oh give me a break, Overlord prove they can be manipulated not to mention AI hacking in game.

That happens before they are upgraded. Legion itself, if I recall correctly, states that even the reapers would no longer be able to hack them after the upgrade. I'm not just saying that organics are just as susceptible to manipulation, I'm saying that after the geth are upgraded, organics are more susceptible than the geth to reaper manipulation.

[Funkdrspot]

FirstCitizen800 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Says the man who didn't bother to back himself up. Call names all you like but my point is valid and there's nothing 'liberal' about it. It's a fairly simple concept that applies universally to all people.

Lol, I'm sure there's better forums to cheer for you favorite football teams, er, I mean political parties.

He seems to be trying to make it a political party issue. I was just pointing to, what i saw as, flawed logic of another poster. Yes weaker minds will call names and root for political parties like they do teams but that's not me.

[Legendaryred]

Strategyking92 wrote...

Legendaryred wrote...

Strategyking92 wrote...

at the end of the day, mass effect 1 & 2 made me very unsympathetic towards the geth. I would have destroyed all of them with only just a slight guilt about it. However, if I were to let the geth destroy the quarians.....


No, that's not even a possibility. organics>VI's
(The geth were only clusters of VI's without reaper tech which turned them into AI's)

I don't remember the council passing laws forbidding the development of VIs, i remember them passing laws that forbid the development of AIs after the geth/quarian war.
The Geth were self aware AI by the end of the morning war, the reaper upgrades gave them individuality.

I fail to see a point here. A single geth is a VI, whereas a cluster of geth (several VI's) has increased intelligence due to processing power. Self aware, perhaps, but this does not mean it can qualify as a living entity.

By repeatedly tweaking the geth's systems, the quarians had inadvertently allowed the geth to evolve into an Artificial Intelligence, thus becoming sentient. A living entity is something that's up for debate, is it living because it's partly organic? or because is intelligent enough and self aware? many would qualify a living being by it just being self aware.

[IntrepidDeath]

sirisaacx wrote...

Digressing for a moment, there's a lot of fantastic points and great debate in this thread. I'm thoroughly enjoying it. It's of a much higher caliber than the average BSN topic.

I'm IntrepidDeath and this is my favorite thread on these boards. No, seriously, this is the only one I've been excited enough about to do anything other than make asinine comments in.

[sirisaacx]

IntrepidDeath wrote...

Olueq wrote...

Oh give me a break, Overlord prove they can be manipulated not to mention AI hacking in game.

That happens before they are upgraded. Legion itself, if I recall correctly, states that even the reapers would no longer be able to hack them after the upgrade. I'm not just saying that organics are just as susceptible to manipulation, I'm saying that after the geth are upgraded, organics are more susceptible than the geth to reaper manipulation.

I think he means not hack them COLLECTIVELY. The reapers could probably still hack individual geth, but your point still stands. Also I could be wrong on the canon, but that was what I derived from it.