319 réponses à ce sujet

[SalsaDMA]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...
Nope, and I guess I agree. On the district 9 thing as well

Also I forgot, there is an issue with it comes from the Distributor. Where you could have a small budget of let's say 5 million to hire all the people you want and have everything prepped. Once they go through approval your budget is up to 20 millions dollars for really nothing.

I know from what documentaries I watched it is a common event in Hollywood, so I would not be surprised it would bleed into other enteraintment industries.

That made me remember. There's also the 'hidden cost' of maintaining costs at a level.

What I mean is that I've experienced first hand that if a post gets done for less than the budgeted amount, someone will figure out a way to make the post increase to come closer to, or even hit, the allocated budget. Reasoning being that if you don't hit or exceed the budget you will get even less to do with next time budgets are made...

[Dragoonlordz]

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

When what was said in the past was literally the only explanation they gave, yeah, you're basically trying to say they were lying then too which only furthers my point that BioWare is being COMPLETELY untrustworthy.  Even if they said something else later, how is one supposed to believe it?  If they can't stick to their story, that's a sure sign of PR bull.

No, I am telling you I do not care what you have or think you have heard.

I am telling you how it has always been with companions relating to content on the discs and why then gave examples.

Kasumi all we had were a few voice files.  Shale wasn't much different.  In every other case you couldn't simply change one line of code and suddenly almost everything about them was unlocked.  So no, its not the same.

Rather than bicker with you anymore I will just leave this here and you can go there argue with everyone else.

Much of Javik was not present on the disc compared to what I got when bought. It was also stated by Bioware that there was parts like models, animations and such on the disc "framework" for the purposes I already told you but you dismissed because you won't accept it no matter who says it. Not using a edit of code to unlock makes no difference to content being there regardless of if lock or unlock. I have actually yet to see even anywhere near the same amount of interactions/dialogue plus vast amounts more that is present in the download compared to editing code on disc when watched videos of people who claimed to have unlocked it vs what I know I had when downloaded. Either way I am done with this element of discussion because we wont apparently agree so time to agree to disagree.

Considering you're spewing out garbage that is flat out wrong, yeah, there isn't going to be any agreement.  There has been plenty of proof over the years against almost every word you've said.  I'm not going to agree to something that is flat out WRONG.

What are you like 12? Quit throwing a tantrum. I suggest you lose the anger over simply disagreeing with me.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 07:05 .

[Mylia Stenetch]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...
Nope, and I guess I agree. On the district 9 thing as well

Also I forgot, there is an issue with it comes from the Distributor. Where you could have a small budget of let's say 5 million to hire all the people you want and have everything prepped. Once they go through approval your budget is up to 20 millions dollars for really nothing.

I know from what documentaries I watched it is a common event in Hollywood, so I would not be surprised it would bleed into other enteraintment industries.

That made me remember. There's also the 'hidden cost' of maintaining costs at a level.

What I mean is that I've experienced first hand that if a post gets done for less than the budgeted amount, someone will figure out a way to make the post increase to come closer to, or even hit, the allocated budget. Reasoning being that if you don't hit or exceed the budget you will get even less to do with next time budgets are made...

Yeah I have seen that first hand at one of the banks in the city I live in. It was beautiful, marble at all the receptionist areas, it was truly the staple bank for the company. Once they went through a rebrand they ripped out all the marble and littlerally threw it in a dumpster and put cheap lenament, cause of the reason you said.

Now the trifecta has been complete....I am now getting suspicious.

[Kuari999]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What are you like 12? Quit throwing a tantrum. I suggest you lose the anger over simply disagreeing with me.

Pfft, I'm not throwing a tantrum.  You're the one throwing insults around.  Its also not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.  In this case its a right or wrong issue.  Agree or disagree is for opinions, not facts.

[Dragoonlordz]

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What are you like 12? Quit throwing a tantrum. I suggest you lose the anger over simply disagreeing with me.

Pfft, I'm not throwing a tantrum.  You're the one throwing insults around.  Its also not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.  In this case its a right or wrong issue.  Agree or disagree is for opinions, not facts.

Then enlighten me, show me where I was wrong about all companions to various degrees were not on the disc, some partially and some completley. Which is what I said was the case and why they were present which is what the developers have said.

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2.

The same was case for Sebastion which was completley on the disc, only difference was you could not edit to unlock him and had to download the unlock 50MB file. Zaeed and Kasumi was quite fair amount on the disc but not as much as Sebastion or Javik. Shale was partially on the disc too and all were for the purpose of during the development stage of integration for cinamtics, dialogue and as they put it framework. This is what I said so where am I wrong?

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 07:20 .

[Kuari999]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What are you like 12? Quit throwing a tantrum. I suggest you lose the anger over simply disagreeing with me.

Pfft, I'm not throwing a tantrum.  You're the one throwing insults around.  Its also not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.  In this case its a right or wrong issue.  Agree or disagree is for opinions, not facts.

Then enlighten me, show me where I was wrong about all companions to various degrees were not on the disc, some partially and some completley. Which is what I said was the case and why they were present which is what the developers have said.

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2.

The same was case for Sebastion which was completley on the disc, only difference was you couldnot edit to unlock him and had to download the unlock 50MB file. Zaeed and Kasumi was quite fair amount on the disc but not as much as Sebastion or Javik. Shale was partially on the disc too. This is what I said so where am I wrong?

The fact you could unlock him here pretty much means he was just about done.  This isn't even remotely similar to Zaeed and Kasumi.  Sure some framework files were in, but not the CORE FILES.  Its standard PR bull****, backtracking on what was said previously to try and damage control after something said previously was proven wrong.

[bigfootedfred]

i do love how my loverboy quotes...himself, for proof

[kbct]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is publicly available to download on their site. I downloaded it because someone tried to pull a fast one relating to sales data. He quoted a report without linking and made statements claimed was in their report. I went and downloaded the report itself to counter him.

Are you talking about Gatt9? He didn't post in the thread again so it's very possible he didnt' see your post.

You didn't provide actual sales numbers of your own. You just copied and pasted the Q3 EA report. And the TOR sales numbers line up perfectly.

Besides, is point wasn't sales as much as it was about earnings - as you can see he bolded the earnings. The earnings suck. EA has been sh!tting the bed for many years now.

Anyway, don't sell people in this thread what didn't happen in another thread.

[Cainne Chapel]

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What are you like 12? Quit throwing a tantrum. I suggest you lose the anger over simply disagreeing with me.

Pfft, I'm not throwing a tantrum.  You're the one throwing insults around.  Its also not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.  In this case its a right or wrong issue.  Agree or disagree is for opinions, not facts.

Then enlighten me, show me where I was wrong about all companions to various degrees were not on the disc, some partially and some completley. Which is what I said was the case and why they were present which is what the developers have said.

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2.

The same was case for Sebastion which was completley on the disc, only difference was you couldnot edit to unlock him and had to download the unlock 50MB file. Zaeed and Kasumi was quite fair amount on the disc but not as much as Sebastion or Javik. Shale was partially on the disc too. This is what I said so where am I wrong?

The fact you could unlock him here pretty much means he was just about done.  This isn't even remotely similar to Zaeed and Kasumi.  Sure some framework files were in, but not the CORE FILES.  Its standard PR bull****, backtracking on what was said previously to try and damage control after something said previously was proven wrong.

whats the difference between FRAMEWORK and CORE files essentially?

Javik was PARTIALLY on the disc but everything that came with From Ashes WASN'T, so i'm not getting the argument, its almost exactly the same as Zaeed, Kasumi and even LOTSB (remember when people found a few audio files here and there in ME2?) YEt most of them were released later (kasumi and LOTSB) and for cost even though a few PORTIONS of them were already in place.

So I'm not getting the argument over Javik especially. I mean Yeah you can "unlock" him without the Download, but not all of the assets included in it are there.

[Mylia Stenetch]

kbct wrote...

Besides, is point wasn't sales as much as it was about earnings - as you can see he bolded the earnings. The earnings suck. EA has been sh!tting the bed for many years now.

There has been a history for enterainment industry to blow budgets out of portpotion to make it looks like they never made profit, or even shift numbers around to avoid taxes etc. Just something to mull over.

[Cainne Chapel]

On a micro level...does it really matter what EA does and Doesn't make every year?

I mean its obvious they are large enough that they are not going anywhere and can steady operate well despite posting losses (I know many business that are large enough that can and they do fine...hell even thrive)

But what does this have to do with ME3 in particular or DLC on hand? to me EA is as faceless as Microsoft or Sony or Nintendo or Activision or Ubisoft or a plethora of other corporate gaming giants out there, I frankly dont care about them other than the fact that they provide me with products I enjoy, if they aren't around, someone else will fill their role

[Cainne Chapel]

By the way Mylia... love your avatar *nods*

[Justin2k]

There is some confusion here.

1) Regarding an ending, perhaps if people were promised a certain amount or certain type of ending, they are entitled to a refund or a free fix.  However if those comments about varying endings etc were never made, then I can't see that anyone would be entitled for something just because they didn't like it.  Some of those comments were misleading at best tbh.

2) Regarding DLC, this is usually most often additional content that wouldn't be in the game if it was shipped. It would be saved for a sequel or expansion or would just never happen. A lot of us like being able to add stuff to the game years after we bought it. It's a good thing, although stuff like "from ashes" kinda uses it questionably imo, they released it far too soon.

If I could buy 20 new maps for treasure island dizzy on the C64, you bet i would.

Modifié par Justin2k, 02 avril 2012 - 07:43 .

[Mylia Stenetch]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

By the way Mylia... love your avatar *nods*

Thanks . It is good to see more Geth around here.

[kbct]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

kbct wrote...

Besides, is point wasn't sales as much as it was about earnings - as you can see he bolded the earnings. The earnings suck. EA has been sh!tting the bed for many years now.

There has been a history for enterainment industry to blow budgets out of portpotion to make it looks like they never made profit, or even shift numbers around to avoid taxes etc. Just something to mull over.

Maybe that's why EA is trading at the same price it was in 1999.

Modifié par kbct, 02 avril 2012 - 07:43 .

[Dragoonlordz]

bigfootedfred wrote...

i do love how my loverboy quotes...himself, for proof

What?

I quoted a Gamble not myself. Thanks.

[Mylia Stenetch]

kbct wrote...
Maybe that's why EA is trading at the same price it was 1999.

I am just stating it. I and I can assume you are in the financial districts and study trends of gaming companies. Cainne Chapel had it right, this is getting silly/out of hand. Whatever happens to EA is what happens to them ME3 does not have a massive impact that we are putting out to it. 

[kaisterbahn]

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

Close, but you're wrong about the end part. We didn't get an ending. We were sold a beginning, a middle, and a complilation of something that was throw together while recovering from a tequila hangover.

[Dragoonlordz]

kbct wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is publicly available to download on their site. I downloaded it because someone tried to pull a fast one relating to sales data. He quoted a report without linking and made statements claimed was in their report. I went and downloaded the report itself to counter him.

Are you talking about Gatt9? He didn't post in the thread again so it's very possible he didnt' see your post.

You didn't provide actual sales numbers of your own. You just copied and pasted the Q3 EA report. And the TOR sales numbers line up perfectly.

Besides, is point wasn't sales as much as it was about earnings - as you can see he bolded the earnings. The earnings suck. EA has been sh!tting the bed for many years now.

Anyway, don't sell people in this thread what didn't happen in another thread.

Nothing I said was false. Did he or did he not make a claim without linked his source? Did I or did I not link the actual source and respond with details from the report which painted a far better picture than he chose to leave out (countered the doom and gloom response). I never said they were not operating at a loss, in fact said they have been for many years. I provided sales numbers, in fact provided all of them because I linked the actual source and report which is more than he did. Sorry but if paints a false picture I had valid reason to counter.

When he said...

Reports are that pretty much everything in the last year has underperformed except BF3 and NFL.

EA sold 10 million copies of Battlefield 3
2 million copies of The Old Repulbic
Had residual sales of NFL and FIFA
and posted a 270 million dollar loss.

EA report...

Battlefield 3™ and FIFA 12 each sold through more than 10 million units. Madden NFL 12 has sold through almost 5 million units life-to-date.

Total Q3 non-GAAP revenue was $1.651 billion, growing 17% versus last year. This is slightly better than the top end of our guidance range, and was driven by the successful launches of Battlefield 3 and Star Wars- The Old Republic and the continued success of FIFA 12.

DLC and free-to-play microtransaction content was $123 million in Q3, up 86% versus last year, primarily due to the continued digital success of FIFA.

Specifically, FIFA 12 generated almost $50 million of non-GAAP digital revenue for Q3, four times what FIFA 11 did during the same period last year.

And when had used bad form prior in the thread trying to paint false picture by adding in the cost of the purchase of Bioware against ToR numbers (price paid for Bioware limited to comparrision with one title that came out years after the purchase of the studio and many titles which lowered the purchased cost over the years), of course I went and had to double check his numbers the second time around.

He had wrote...

700 million (Cost of Bioware,  plus cost of TOR)

$15 per copy revenue * 2 million * 0.6 (Since LA gets at least a third of the revenue)  = 18 million

Which means they need 682 million more to go,  or 82 million just to recover TOR.

$15/month * 1.7 million * 0.6 = 15.3 million

Then

15.3 million - the cost of the CSR's,  the servers,  electricity,  off-site backups,  etc.

So around 14 million a month very likely.

My reply...

Adding in the cost of Bioware is not valid, EA have taken profit from their acquisition of Bioware for many years across many titles already, it is not dependant on ToR. Your figures simply do not add up in this case.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 08:25 .

[kbct]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

kbct wrote...
Maybe that's why EA is trading at the same price it was 1999.

I am just stating it. I and I can assume you are in the financial districts and study trends of gaming companies. Cainne Chapel had it right, this is getting silly/out of hand. Whatever happens to EA is what happens to them ME3 does not have a massive impact that we are putting out to it. 

What's irrating is Gatt9 was basically right in his post in the other thread and Dragoonlordz made it sound like he corrected him.

I don't like it when people do that.

Dragoonlordz pointed to an article that showed ME3 was doing well in Finland (of all places) and Gatt9's point was that even a couple million ME3 sales wouldn't do much for the EA bottom line - everything else considered.

Modifié par kbct, 02 avril 2012 - 07:56 .

[Kuari999]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What are you like 12? Quit throwing a tantrum. I suggest you lose the anger over simply disagreeing with me.

Pfft, I'm not throwing a tantrum.  You're the one throwing insults around.  Its also not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.  In this case its a right or wrong issue.  Agree or disagree is for opinions, not facts.

Then enlighten me, show me where I was wrong about all companions to various degrees were not on the disc, some partially and some completley. Which is what I said was the case and why they were present which is what the developers have said.

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2.

The same was case for Sebastion which was completley on the disc, only difference was you couldnot edit to unlock him and had to download the unlock 50MB file. Zaeed and Kasumi was quite fair amount on the disc but not as much as Sebastion or Javik. Shale was partially on the disc too. This is what I said so where am I wrong?

The fact you could unlock him here pretty much means he was just about done.  This isn't even remotely similar to Zaeed and Kasumi.  Sure some framework files were in, but not the CORE FILES.  Its standard PR bull****, backtracking on what was said previously to try and damage control after something said previously was proven wrong.

whats the difference between FRAMEWORK and CORE files essentially?

Javik was PARTIALLY on the disc but everything that came with From Ashes WASN'T, so i'm not getting the argument, its almost exactly the same as Zaeed, Kasumi and even LOTSB (remember when people found a few audio files here and there in ME2?) YEt most of them were released later (kasumi and LOTSB) and for cost even though a few PORTIONS of them were already in place.

So I'm not getting the argument over Javik especially. I mean Yeah you can "unlock" him without the Download, but not all of the assets included in it are there.

Basically Javik was all ready to play before the game went gold unlike say, Kasumi.  Zaeed, Shale and Sebastian it could maybe be debated some, but they weren't completely available, but here's the key thing Shale and Zaeed came free with a new game..  Sebastian? Might have been an indicator, but they dropped the ball on DA2 in general so I didn't get it and don't know a lot about it.  Either way, by the time they went gold, at best all they probably had to do was get a few minor things done since quite literally, the hardest parts were done.  The stuff they had on the disk?  That stuff is the stuff that takes the longest to get done.  They were clearly working on it a while despite claims to otherwise.

[Mylia Stenetch]

kbct wrote...
What's irrating is Gatt9 was basically right in his post in the other thread and Dragoonlordz made it sound like he corrected him.

I don't like it when people do that.

Dragoonlordz pointed to an article that showed ME3 was doing well in Finland (of all places) and Gatt9's point was that even a couple million ME3 sales wouldn't do much for the EA bottom line - everything else considered.

I never read that thread, so I am going on a basis of what was said in this thread. If ME3 is doing good in Finland that is great for Bioware. I did state though ME3 will only be a drop in EA bucket for money, they could be shifting it around to lowe costs, but that is through all the subsidaires etc.

I am also not trying to prove you wrong, or refute your opinion, just opening anothre thought on the idea.

[Cainne Chapel]

Kuari999 wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Kuari999 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What are you like 12? Quit throwing a tantrum. I suggest you lose the anger over simply disagreeing with me.

Pfft, I'm not throwing a tantrum.  You're the one throwing insults around.  Its also not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.  In this case its a right or wrong issue.  Agree or disagree is for opinions, not facts.

Then enlighten me, show me where I was wrong about all companions to various degrees were not on the disc, some partially and some completley. Which is what I said was the case and why they were present which is what the developers have said.

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2.

The same was case for Sebastion which was completley on the disc, only difference was you couldnot edit to unlock him and had to download the unlock 50MB file. Zaeed and Kasumi was quite fair amount on the disc but not as much as Sebastion or Javik. Shale was partially on the disc too. This is what I said so where am I wrong?

The fact you could unlock him here pretty much means he was just about done.  This isn't even remotely similar to Zaeed and Kasumi.  Sure some framework files were in, but not the CORE FILES.  Its standard PR bull****, backtracking on what was said previously to try and damage control after something said previously was proven wrong.

whats the difference between FRAMEWORK and CORE files essentially?

Javik was PARTIALLY on the disc but everything that came with From Ashes WASN'T, so i'm not getting the argument, its almost exactly the same as Zaeed, Kasumi and even LOTSB (remember when people found a few audio files here and there in ME2?) YEt most of them were released later (kasumi and LOTSB) and for cost even though a few PORTIONS of them were already in place.

So I'm not getting the argument over Javik especially. I mean Yeah you can "unlock" him without the Download, but not all of the assets included in it are there.

Basically Javik was all ready to play before the game went gold unlike say, Kasumi.  Zaeed, Shale and Sebastian it could maybe be debated some, but they weren't completely available, but here's the key thing Shale and Zaeed came free with a new game..  Sebastian? Might have been an indicator, but they dropped the ball on DA2 in general so I didn't get it and don't know a lot about it.  Either way, by the time they went gold, at best all they probably had to do was get a few minor things done since quite literally, the hardest parts were done.  The stuff they had on the disk?  That stuff is the stuff that takes the longest to get done.  They were clearly working on it a while despite claims to otherwise.

Well they leaked a squadmate in the N7 edition when it was first announced some half a dozen months before the game went gold if I recall, I recall knowing about him for quite a while and while yes he wasn't free like Zaeed, I assumed since he was only noted as being int he N7 edition was one of the reasons why i purchased it, but i figured he'd be available regardless

But yes if he was free for all for buying new, that would of been great.  But then i would of expected a similar discount for my N7 edition of course

[Alex_SM]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

1. Thats not completely true, there is very little incentive to buy DLC when fans are creating it themselves. It has an effect.

Bethesda still sells DLC and their games are the most modded ones out there. 

The point is that, if people create their own content, you can't sell them lazy retexture DLC. Because there would be thousands of retextures available for free. And lots of them better than the one offered. 

Modders force the developers to actually care about the downloadable content and make it good. 

DLCs like "Lair of the Shadow Broker" would still make the same money, others like "your pink armor" wouldn't make sense. 

Also they will probably sell more games. As happens to Bethesda games, people fix them and makes them better. If ME3 were modder friendly we would probably have already a couple of alternate endings. Also it would be a extremely better looking game, less glitched and would probably have some new sidequests.

Modifié par Alex_SM, 02 avril 2012 - 08:28 .

[Habs25]

You do get a complete game. DLC is extra content you can get later at your discretion. It's the same as an expansion pack except more available since its broken down and spread over time, in the end you get the same content. Dios mio...