319 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex_SM]

Sipau Fade wrote...

Ryuu, and youre a gaming dinosaur that either needs to evolve with the changing ways of gaming or move onto something else that doesn't ****** you off.

So the good evolution is to become a submissive customer and accept anything the industry wants in order to preserve their profit. 

Love to be old school. 

[AndrewRogue]

Not going to comment re: Mass Effect 3's ending as that is a rather different can of worms, but DLC is no more indicative of an "incomplete" game than sequels or supplemental materials are to other media.

[b2smooth]

The Mass Effect series was the greatest gaming experience I have ever had, until the final 15 minutes. If only there was some way to remedy that...

[Mylia Stenetch]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Newzoo is pulling those figures from it's arse. The only way it could come up with those figures is if they lumped all mobile (Android, IPhone and IPad etc) and social games (such as FB etc) in with PC games. The fact they said 50% are digital discredits them, it is a random guess and it in reality is not 50% at all digital. It is like saying "Derp, half the PC games sold are digital". That is not true and clearly a random guess without research behind it.

Actually when it says digital downloads or PC games, they can inclue social media games since that is what a lot of PC gaming is turning into. That is apart of they future you have to accept as you did for DLC. Smart phones will be in their own category soon enough. Gaming is shifting rapidly over the last couple of years and the target audience.

If you are going to accept that DLC is the new standard then social media games are also apart of that revenue stream.

[Alex_SM]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Newzoo is pulling those figures from it's arse. The only way it could come up with those figures is if they lumped all mobile (Android, IPhone and IPad etc) and social games (such as FB etc) in with PC games. The fact they said 50% are digital discredits them, it is a random guess and it in reality is not 50% at all digital. It is like saying "Derp, half the PC games sold are digital". That is not true and clearly a random guess without research behind it.

Actually when it says digital downloads or PC games, they can inclue social media games since that is what a lot of PC gaming is turning into. That is apart of they future you have to accept as you did for DLC. Smart phones will be in their own category soon enough. Gaming is shifting rapidly over the last couple of years and the target audience.

If you are going to accept that DLC is the new standard then social media games are also apart of that revenue stream.

Actually, if you take a look at the figures: http://www.newzoo.co...s_grijs_tn3.png

there are categories for all of those. PC/MAC download is just for PC/MAC digital sales of "traditional PC/MAC games". 

[Getorex]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Newzoo is pulling those figures from it's arse. The only way it could come up with those figures is if they lumped all mobile (Android, IPhone and IPad etc) and social games (such as FB etc) in with PC games. The fact they said 50% are digital discredits them, it is a random guess and it in reality is not 50% at all digital. It is like saying "Derp, half the PC games sold are digital". That is not true and clearly a random guess without research behind it.

Actually when it says digital downloads or PC games, they can inclue social media games since that is what a lot of PC gaming is turning into. That is apart of they future you have to accept as you did for DLC. Smart phones will be in their own category soon enough. Gaming is shifting rapidly over the last couple of years and the target audience.

If you are going to accept that DLC is the new standard then social media games are also apart of that revenue stream.

Just so long as it doesn't devolve into some "Facebook Eden Prime Farmville!" social idiot game.

[weltraumhamster89]

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/711

Can't say I'm any different though - right now I would give almost anything for a proper (happier) ending. But strange thing is, ME is the ONLY game I would do that.

Modifié par weltraumhamster89, 02 avril 2012 - 02:28 .

[Navasha]

It comes down to this... if you don't like DLC... DON"T BUY IT. That is your right. Stop with the whole, "I want it, I just don't want to have to pay for it" argument. If you honestly believe you are in the majority and that majority just stops buying DLC, then the industry WILL stop making it.

[Sipau Fade]

Alex, I think if you like a product and are willing to submit to the way they handle their business then go ahead. I actually agree with you though about being cool with being old school. You just have to pick your battles and to whom you choose to be in servitude to. I choose mass effect. Not much else though. But it looks like they're going that way so all I'm saying is hop on board the ea slave train or get off at the next stop. It is "sad" but, hey, that's the world we live in right?

[Zmidponk]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

In the end you can view it two ways, firstly if you hate DLC you can consider it a necessary evil because the cost of games has risen vastly over last decade and continues to rise at an alarming rate both from development assets and staff costs for such content as CGI staff.

Considering that game development budgets can range anywhere from more or less pocket change to nine figure sums, this would seem to be a problem of the developers and/or publishers not budgeting properly, or not sticking to that budget.

Or you can view it as a blessing if you like DLC and think extending the length of the titles you love is worth paying for.

If it's done well, yes.  However, blatently ripping out part of a game, just to bump up the price by selling it later (such as the Orrery DLC in Oblivion), or putting in a ******-poor ending in order to later charge for a decent one is NOT doing it well.

There was an article a while back from everyones favorite developer regarding free DLC (even I like them, just like I like Bioware and Bethesda) that the reason the 3rd act in TW2 was so short was due to not enough finance to continue creating the product outside of retail income meaning game not released. DLC covers such costs on future products so that are not left in positions like that, it has only been a year since came out and since about to launch it on another format but if it had taken a few years they may be singing a different tune regarding DLC due to income drying up.

So your best argument in defence of a paid DLC ending is your own opinion on a 'what-if' scenario regarding a different game by a different developer?  I think that says all that needs to be said.

[Alex_SM]

Navasha wrote...

It comes down to this... if you don't like DLC... DON"T BUY IT. That is your right. Stop with the whole, "I want it, I just don't want to have to pay for it" argument. If you honestly believe you are in the majority and that majority just stops buying DLC, then the industry WILL stop making it.

Is not that simple. A strong damage is already done. The same goes for absurd online passes, internet connections required and that kinds of things, that would make lots of games unplayable in a couple of years. 

[Mike Shepard]

Il Divo wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you are confusing "complete game" with "no dlc".

While it's definitely exploitable, the basic idea behind dlc is to extend game length for those who enjoy it in small, quick spurts. Content which would never have seen the light of day otherwise is a perfect example of the benefits of dlc.

Lack of dlc itself is never a guarantee of good quality or a complete and logical game (see KotOR 2's ending, unfortunately). It just means that it's not possible to modify anything post release.

The way I go about it? If I enjoyed the base game for the price I bought it and if the dlc looks interesting, I have no problem shelling out.

This. So much this.

Mostly the bolded part. I mean don't get me wrong I agree with all of it. But to the bolded part: The first time I saw the Ebon Hawk fall into Malachor V's core I was like 'noooooooooooo' then when it flew out in pristine condition I was like 'whaaaaaaaaaaat'

[Alex_SM]

Sipau Fade wrote...
 It is "sad" but, hey, that's the world we live in right?

Who cares if that's the world we live in? The point is to make it stop being this way. 

[Zmidponk]

To those who seem to think that DLC is universally good, or that a paid DLC ending for ME3 is good, let me paint you a picture:

You go out and buy the Blu-Ray of a reputedly fantastic film, third in a trilogy of films of which you've already thoroughly enjoyed the first two. The film is great, just what you've come to expect - right up until the last 10 minutes, which are nonsensical, and make a complete mockery of the entire trilogy up until that point. The studio which produced that film then announced they were going to be making a second version of that film with a fixed ending, but you had to buy the first version, then pay an extra fee to get the fixed ending. What would your reaction be?

That is what Bioware are doing with this ending.

[Cainne Chapel]

Zmidponk wrote...

To those who seem to think that DLC is universally good, or that a paid DLC ending for ME3 is good, let me paint you a picture:

You go out and buy the Blu-Ray of a reputedly fantastic film, third in a trilogy of films of which you've already thoroughly enjoyed the first two. The film is great, just what you've come to expect - right up until the last 10 minutes, which are nonsensical, and make a complete mockery of the entire trilogy up until that point. The studio which produced that film then announced they were going to be making a second version of that film with a fixed ending, but you had to buy the first version, then pay an extra fee to get the fixed ending. What would your reaction be?

That is what Bioware are doing with this ending.

saying all DLC is universally good is like saying all old school games were longer and had more content.

Its a dumb argument.

For every LOTSB, there's Horse armor, for every awesome DLC there's 4 to5 ****ty ones.

Same is true for every entertainment venue under the sun.

Funny thing is DLC is optional, and not needed for enjoyment of the game OR future titles.

Now as to your analogy I dont think it quite fits, as the ending isn't nonsensical, a bit out of left field? Yes, not up to par? Yes, but its not like it devolved into something that didn't make sense and everyone went all benny hill, it was just...out of left field.
Not defending it or saying I liked it, but its what we got.  Now I've seen some terrible endings in good games before and I can hardly say ME3 takes the cake but yes I was not happy with it.

But still doesn't mean I loathe DLC, like i've stated before even I buy DLC for games I enjoy (heck I just but a few packs for Saints row the third last night, why? because i like extra costumes and guns for wanton destruction)

Modifié par Cainne Chapel, 02 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Alex_SM wrote...

Sipau Fade wrote...
 It is "sad" but, hey, that's the world we live in right?

Who cares if that's the world we live in? The point is to make it stop being this way. 

The reason it exists is because there is a demand for it, if there was not it would not exist. The demand is still there, nothing has changed. You may not like DLC but for each person that doesn't they are severely outnumbered by those who do. This has always been the case and why it exists today and will continue to do so. I personally like DLC. I also do not consider the ending closure DLC coming to be a replacement or true ending, I see it as an optional additional ending content if you wish to buy it due to being unhappy with the ending you already got. I also do not consider Javik cut from the game and sold back, I consider that tin foil hat territory. It was always advertised as additional for CE owners and also separate download for SE owners who wanted the content CE owners got without paying as much regardless of when it was developed. If was never advertised as part of the product then it never was part of the product on offer in the first place.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 02:47 .

[Sipau Fade]

My point is you won't change it. The ONLY. Way to change it is to completely cut yourself off from it. The retake movement will only speed up the process because we are still "dependent" on this product and it only speeds up the process of servitude. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending how you look at it.

I'm sorry but it will never be like it was back in "the good ol days" when Mario was complete. If you really want change then you'll need to do a lot better than demanding changes to products and business models. Evenif you do "win" you'll end up paying just as much in the end. The only way to change it is to get everyone to never preorder again, never buy again and never do dlc again. It just won't happen.

[Dragoonlordz]

Zmidponk wrote...

To those who seem to think that DLC is universally good, or that a paid DLC ending for ME3 is good, let me paint you a picture:

You go out and buy the Blu-Ray of a reputedly fantastic film, third in a trilogy of films of which you've already thoroughly enjoyed the first two. The film is great, just what you've come to expect - right up until the last 10 minutes, which are nonsensical, and make a complete mockery of the entire trilogy up until that point. The studio which produced that film then announced they were going to be making a second version of that film with a fixed ending, but you had to buy the first version, then pay an extra fee to get the fixed ending. What would your reaction be?

That is what Bioware are doing with this ending.

I do not care for film, books, cars or cakes analogies. Make games ones or lose my interest.

[Cainne Chapel]

Sipau Fade wrote...

My point is you won't change it. The ONLY. Way to change it is to completely cut yourself off from it. The retake movement will only speed up the process because we are still "dependent" on this product and it only speeds up the process of servitude. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending how you look at it.

I'm sorry but it will never be like it was back in "the good ol days" when Mario was complete. If you really want change then you'll need to do a lot better than demanding changes to products and business models. Evenif you do "win" you'll end up paying just as much in the end. The only way to change it is to get everyone to never preorder again, never buy again and never do dlc again. It just won't happen.

Still dont get the "good old days" arguments.

Games still had tons of issues in the good old days too.  and I dont know about the rest of you i STILL get complete games now as I did then.

So that argument...is...well... silly

[Zmidponk]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I do not care for film, books, cars or cakes analogies. Make games ones or lose my interest.

Not unless you can explain why my analogy is invalid.

[Mylia Stenetch]

Zmidponk wrote...

To those who seem to think that DLC is universally good, or that a paid DLC ending for ME3 is good, let me paint you a picture:

You go out and buy the Blu-Ray of a reputedly fantastic film, third in a trilogy of films of which you've already thoroughly enjoyed the first two. The film is great, just what you've come to expect - right up until the last 10 minutes, which are nonsensical, and make a complete mockery of the entire trilogy up until that point. The studio which produced that film then announced they were going to be making a second version of that film with a fixed ending, but you had to buy the first version, then pay an extra fee to get the fixed ending. What would your reaction be?

That is what Bioware are doing with this ending.

So I guess when Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Blade Runner, Watchmen came out with a director's cut or a new "updated" edition your called up the company demanding they replaced the one you own with the current edition?

DLC is not recommended, stop making it sounds like that. 

[Alex_SM]

Sipau Fade wrote...
The only way to change it is to get everyone to never preorder again, never buy again and never do dlc again. It just won't happen.

No, it's not the only way. Support Brian Fargo and his crowdfunded Wasteland 2, support Double Fine and their next adventure game. That's the way. 

No publishers, just people funding the things they want to see made. 

[Zmidponk]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

So I guess when Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Blade Runner, Watchmen came out with a director's cut or a new "updated" edition your called up the company demanding they replaced the one you own with the current edition?

DLC is not recommended, stop making it sounds like that.

Name a film where the ending was changed from a cocked up mess to something good.  Then your argument might have merit.

EDIT:Also, you seem to miss that a 'director's cut' is a complete product.  This potential ending DLC is not - it's an addon to a product that gives a fixed ending to that product.  That, in and of itself, would show that they're charging extra for making the product the way it supposed to be in the first place.

Modifié par Zmidponk, 02 avril 2012 - 03:00 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Zmidponk wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I do not care for film, books, cars or cakes analogies. Make games ones or lose my interest.

Not unless you can explain why my analogy is invalid.

It has nothing to do with video games. If you cannot come up with one relating to the correct industry then as far as I am concerned it invalidated itself because you could not come up with one within the correct industry (video games).

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 03:00 .

[Mylia Stenetch]

Zmidponk wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

So I guess when Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Blade Runner, Watchmen came out with a director's cut or a new "updated" edition your called up the company demanding they replaced the one you own with the current edition?

DLC is not recommended, stop making it sounds like that.

Name a film where the ending was changed from a cocked up mess to something good.  Then your argument might have merit.

First off your opininion on ending is your opinion so we can have endings we do not like and disagree.  Second how do you it is going to magically good. Your speculation has no merit.

For an example Kingdom of Heaven the theatrical version was a steaming pile of crap. I voiced my opinion on it and did not buy it on DVD/Blu-Ray till I found the director's cut which was much better.