319 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

mad825 wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

The game was a complete product, it did not live up to expectatoins, but complete.

So, may I ask where is this evidence? Or is it some baseless assertion that you felt compelled to say?

The very nature of a "complete product" is that all development costs when into the game that was sold. The From Ashes DLC is an example of this predicament, you can have the extra character in-game by tweaking a file and the fact they promoted the extra character with the DLC adds to show that it was not complete.

Also, how do we not  know what they've withheld content for future DLC?

 A complete product means has a start, a middle and an end. That you can go through all three parts physically and reach that ending. The product does these things, it is a complete product. you can resort to tin foil hat territory if you like but it does you no favors regarding the statement about cut out endings. With regard to Javik this was already covered and it was never offered as part of the game therefore it was never something you was ever buying as part of the initial product regardless of the need during development to have "some" of his data on the disc in order to develop the DLC product itself in order to be compatible and seamless for those with CE who bought it with their version and SE if they chose to buy it.

[Cainne Chapel]

Edit: Post removed.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 02 avril 2012 - 04:04 .

[mad825]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Where is the evidence that the game ISN'T complete?

touché.

It's better to conspire or assume the worst when we are dealing with a no so reliable publisher at hand.

I can still play and beat it without outside help or purchasing anything extra, I can still enjoy a 20+hour story without Javik.

Irrelevant and bad argument. do you need sound? colour?

The game itself contains many things that could have been completed without.

As for Javik he was always planned as a bonus N7 edition character, so I figured if you DiDN'T get the N7 edition, an extra fee would be needed.  AFter all why should everyone get for free what I paid +$20 for as a package?

So why is he featured in all copies of the game? Why is he part of the core  files? In the standard edition I can have him without any extra cost. You did not answer my question.

What? Are you going to argue that Bioware wanted to spare users of some bandwith?

as for witholding future DLC... do you also believe The Arrival, Overlord and LOTSB was withheld from ME2? or Bring down the Sky was withheld from ME1?

Why all the conspiracy theories over a freaking game?

Hard to say...BDTS is free.

It maybe very bad implementation of links to DLC content.

Modifié par mad825, 02 avril 2012 - 03:58 .

[Mylia Stenetch]

mad825 wrote...

As for Javik he was always planned as a bonus N7 edition character, so I figured if you DiDN'T get the N7 edition, an extra fee would be needed.  AFter all why should everyone get for free what I paid +$20 for as a package?

So why is he featured in all copies of the game? Why is he part of the core
files? In the standard edition I can have him without any extra cost. You did not answer my question.

At least for this it is easier/cheaper to make a buch of codes to release him with than make different discs for each edition. This could lead into miss-matching or discs getting mixed up.

[Dragoonlordz]

Edit: Post removed.

Modifié par Chris Priestly, 02 avril 2012 - 04:05 .

[Cainne Chapel]

mad825 wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Where is the evidence that the game ISN'T complete?

touché.

It's better to conspire or assume the worst when we are dealing with a no so reliable publisher at hand.

I can still play and beat it without outside help or purchasing anything extra, I can still enjoy a 20+hour story without Javik.

Irrelevant and bad argument. do you need sound? colour?

The game itself contains many things that could have been completed without.

As for Javik he was always planned as a bonus N7 edition character, so I figured if you DiDN'T get the N7 edition, an extra fee would be needed.  AFter all why should everyone get for free what I paid +$20 for as a package?

So why is he featured in all copies of the game? Why is he part of the core
files? In the standard edition I can have him without any extra cost. You did not answer my question.

as for witholding future DLC... do you also believe The Arrival, Overlord and LOTSB was withheld from ME2? or Bring down the Sky was withheld from ME1?

Why all the conspiracy theories over a freaking game?

Hard to say...BDTS is free.

It maybe very bad implementation of links to DLC content.

Well as the game IS complete it Comes with sound, color, etc.  If those things weren't included..well it'd be incomplete!

as for why is he featured in allc opies of the game? its as I said, he was a bonus character with the N7 edition and thus it would make sense for his files to be included in the game to be easily unlocked for SE purchasers when they purchase him.  Now dont forget not ALL of his files are on the disc, there is a pretty hefty Download for him, but a lot of the files are, but he is a bit "incomplete" without the DL.

as for EA being unreliable, I dont dare say they have a spotless record, they dont... really no large company (or even moderately large) will.  however, I enjo a lot of their games for the most part so i have no reason to really dislike them anymore.

do i agree with all their practices? No, but then its not my call and as long as they produce things I personally like, i'll keep buying

[ThaddeusPL]

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

[Cainne Chapel]

Yeah CDPRed and Witcher/Witcher 2 are good games.

My poor soul however cant stand either one... I dunno I just dont like the main character... I REALLY tried to like Witcher 2 (still have it loaded on my PC) but I didn't play it past 8 hours....

I just did not enjoy it.

That said I was at least happy to support CDPRed. Though I wont buy it on 360... as i already have it on PC.

[mad825]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

mad825 wrote...

As for Javik he was always planned as a bonus N7 edition character, so I figured if you DiDN'T get the N7 edition, an extra fee would be needed.  AFter all why should everyone get for free what I paid +$20 for as a package?

So why is he featured in all copies of the game? Why is he part of the core
files? In the standard edition I can have him without any extra cost. You did not answer my question.

At least for this it is easier/cheaper to make a buch of codes to release him with than make different discs for each edition. This could lead into miss-matching or discs getting mixed up.

Again, irrelevant and does not answer my question. N7 owners still have to download content so that they can get  to reviled Javik .

I don't think there's any technical reason for this, they could've used a place-holder, a blank model so that it can be linked in.

Modifié par mad825, 02 avril 2012 - 04:17 .

[Dragoonlordz]

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

[Sanunes]

One other thing to consider with getting a "free" DLC is is Microsoft and Sony. For I remember the frustration when Metro 2033 tried to add something for free to their game and it was free for the PC, but they had to charge because of Microsoft's system

[Dragoonlordz]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Yeah CDPRed and Witcher/Witcher 2 are good games.

My poor soul however cant stand either one... I dunno I just dont like the main character... I REALLY tried to like Witcher 2 (still have it loaded on my PC) but I didn't play it past 8 hours....

I just did not enjoy it.

That said I was at least happy to support CDPRed. Though I wont buy it on 360... as i already have it on PC.

Boo hiss... You haven't completed TW2! Personally it is a great RPG and so is ME3.

Me not like you...

[Super.Sid]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition is free for people who already have the game.

[Gosia]

True, some companies can do it in a decent way, others ... well we can see for ourselves now I guess.

[Gosia]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Yeah CDPRed and Witcher/Witcher 2 are good games.

My poor soul however cant stand either one... I dunno I just dont like the main character... I REALLY tried to like Witcher 2 (still have it loaded on my PC) but I didn't play it past 8 hours....

I just did not enjoy it.

That said I was at least happy to support CDPRed. Though I wont buy it on 360... as i already have it on PC.

Boo hiss... You haven't completed TW2! Personally it is a great RPG and so is ME3.

Me not like you...

Lol 

[Zmidponk]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

 A complete product means has a start, a middle and an end. That you can go through all three parts physically and reach that ending. The product does these things, it is a complete product.

So does this mean that if a game was released in a state where even attempting to do any optional quest/mission caused an error message to pop up saying 'sorry, please buy DLC to play this side mission', or even simply crashed the game, but you could play through the main story and reach the end, that would be a 'complete product'?

[AlanC9]

mad825 wrote...

As for Javik he was always planned as a bonus N7 edition character, so I figured if you DiDN'T get the N7 edition, an extra fee would be needed.  AFter all why should everyone get for free what I paid +$20 for as a package?

So why is he featured in all copies of the game? Why is he part of the core  files? In the standard edition I can have him without any extra cost. You did not answer my question.

For the convenience of programmers and QA, probably.

Remember that something was always going to be a Day 1 DLC; either Javik or some other chunk of content. He's the most removable thing in the whole game except for the N7 missions, since he's not important for anything. I'm pretty sure that removing anything else would involve pulling one or two of the ME2 characters out of the base game, which would be horrible.

[AlanC9]

Zmidponk wrote...
So does this mean that if a game was released in a state where even attempting to do any optional quest/mission caused an error message to pop up saying 'sorry, please buy DLC to play this side mission', or even simply crashed the game, but you could play through the main story and reach the end, that would be a 'complete product'?

A complete product, sure. A bad complete product.

[Mylia Stenetch]

mad825 wrote...
Again, irrelevant and does not answer my question. N7 owners still have to download content so that they can get  to reviled Javik .

You can have the character yes, a small file, with the only delimitor is a 1 or a 0 is simple to keep on the DVD. Are you able to get the rest of his arc how you unlock him? I know MMOs can have a pre-download of a large expansion which puts in all the new skins, or smaller things to ease the size of the down load you are getting. Once it is released they give you the rest of the information/package to play the game.

Also from the EA spin of it, to deter piracy you need to download the extra bits to make sure you get the "full-expierence" of the DLC.

[ThaddeusPL]

Zmidponk wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

 A complete product means has a start, a middle and an end. That you can go through all three parts physically and reach that ending. The product does these things, it is a complete product.

So does this mean that if a game was released in a state where even attempting to do any optional quest/mission caused an error message to pop up saying 'sorry, please buy DLC to play this side mission', or even simply crashed the game, but you could play through the main story and reach the end, that would be a 'complete product'?

If you don't have DLC u can't get quest/mission from that DLC. So do you can't get any error message. DLC for ME2 are sidequests (don't count equipments DLC), all are optional (but LotSB and Arrival stories are canon in ME3).

[Cainne Chapel]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Yeah CDPRed and Witcher/Witcher 2 are good games.

My poor soul however cant stand either one... I dunno I just dont like the main character... I REALLY tried to like Witcher 2 (still have it loaded on my PC) but I didn't play it past 8 hours....

I just did not enjoy it.

That said I was at least happy to support CDPRed. Though I wont buy it on 360... as i already have it on PC.

Boo hiss... You haven't completed TW2! Personally it is a great RPG and so is ME3.

Me not like you...

Sorry I know CDPRed is infallible to a lot of people but lord help me I just DO NOT LIKE the Witcher.... by all accounts I should but I like the Witcher as much as I like FMA... that is not at all

ha ha! Joking I love FMA, but no I just cant stand the witcher for some reason, guess it just didn't resonate with me

[Dragoonlordz]

Super.Sid wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition is free for people who already have the game.

I know I own it already aswell as ordered the DE for 360. The reason EE is free is because it was promised that PC users would get what the 360 users got with theirs. After which however expansions will cost, DLC will remain free. But I should point out while I like CDPR giving it free I have asked them multiple times to charge for DLC for the simple fact I wish to support them more and by paying for content it funds for more to be created rather than eating into sales of the original title for the period of the games lifecycle prior to next title release.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 04:22 .

[Mylia Stenetch]

Zmidponk wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

 A complete product means has a start, a middle and an end. That you can go through all three parts physically and reach that ending. The product does these things, it is a complete product.

So does this mean that if a game was released in a state where even attempting to do any optional quest/mission caused an error message to pop up saying 'sorry, please buy DLC to play this side mission', or even simply crashed the game, but you could play through the main story and reach the end, that would be a 'complete product'?

Look up Rage, they did this purposefully in the game. Javik if you never looked in the forums etc or advertised on Orgin, you would not know he is there, he does not play much in the large story.

Rage there is an entrance to the sewers where you can get great loot at early levels, and make the game easier. You can talk to the person who tells you about the sewers, and even "open" the door to the sewers, then a pop-up comes up saying buy DLC to get here.

Here is a link showing it for Rage:
 

Modifié par Mylia Stenetch, 02 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[Alex_SM]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

The enhanced dlc will be free. 

[Dragoonlordz]

Zmidponk wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

 A complete product means has a start, a middle and an end. That you can go through all three parts physically and reach that ending. The product does these things, it is a complete product.

So does this mean that if a game was released in a state where even attempting to do any optional quest/mission caused an error message to pop up saying 'sorry, please buy DLC to play this side mission', or even simply crashed the game, but you could play through the main story and reach the end, that would be a 'complete product'?

If you cannot reach the end then yes is is not a complete product in that you have to be able to reach the end of what you paid for, whether thats as episodes or full titles. You can reach the end of ME3, it is a full product and whether you enjoyed the product is irrelevant. That is how I view it.