319 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

The enhanced dlc will be free. 

I know, I responded to this two posts above yours.

[Alex_SM]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

The enhanced dlc will be free. 

I know, I responded to this two posts above yours.

Read it right after posting. 

[ThaddeusPL]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Super.Sid wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition is free for people who already have the game.

I know I own it already aswell as ordered the DE for 360. The reason EE is free is because it was promised that PC users would get what the 360 users got with theirs. After which however expansions will cost, DLC will remain free. But I should point out while I like CDPR giving it free I have asked them multiple times to charge for DLC for the simple fact I wish to support them more and by paying for content it funds for more to be created rather than eating into sales of the original title for the period of the games lifecycle prior to next title release.

I'm a proud owner of Witcher 2 Collector Edition (no.3052) and I never payed for any DLC for W2. Even special DLC for CE owners (Blue Stripes combat jacket) is free for all gamers. And when I have problem with registration and pre-day-one game start - CDPRed make a gest of good will to any CE owner and i get t-shirt for free. And I don't tell about differences in Collector Editions. If you want to see what just look at photos. Enjoy
https://picasaweb.go...feat=directlink

[Dragoonlordz]

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

The enhanced dlc will be free. 

I know, I responded to this two posts above yours.

Read it right after posting. 

I should clarify however my first sentence related to CDPR while the rest was a general statement about DLC and how I personally view it. After looking at it I realised it could be misunderstood my intentions.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

I hate to tell you.....but it has nothing to do with the quality of ending or any part of the game.

A "phoned-in" ending  is crap any way you look at it.  Basically, if enough ppl can tell that they made the ending on a napkin then thats saying something.

Fact is, this is Bioware...and it's Mass Effect.  If this were to happen to any other game, with most any other developer, or if it were a  new game in the series, ppl wouldn't throw their money blindly into the fire.

As it stands, it seems Bioware can do anything and ppl wil still love them.  Like a husband beating his wife who then keeps going back saying "But he loves me....I just know it."

[Dragoonlordz]

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Super.Sid wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ThaddeusPL wrote...

Look at CDPRed and Witcher 2. ALL DLC small and big ones are free, all u can get only by patching game, thats why W2 coming this month on x360, a year after premiere. Gamers likes a full and complete story, and DLC is only for more playtime. In my opinion endings should be a patch not a DLC. LotSB is excellent, but if endings not be a patch I will thanks EA for all future games.

CDPR are still charging for expansions. A patch is small in size, it fixes issues. A DLC is large in size and content and enhances the game. This ending enhancement will not be patch size and will not be a fix, it will be DLC size and enhance what already exists. DLC is the right name for it as such it should be paid for content to improve the game for those unhappy with what they got.

Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition is free for people who already have the game.

I know I own it already aswell as ordered the DE for 360. The reason EE is free is because it was promised that PC users would get what the 360 users got with theirs. After which however expansions will cost, DLC will remain free. But I should point out while I like CDPR giving it free I have asked them multiple times to charge for DLC for the simple fact I wish to support them more and by paying for content it funds for more to be created rather than eating into sales of the original title for the period of the games lifecycle prior to next title release.

I'm a proud owner of Witcher 2 Collector Edition (no.3052) and I never payed for any DLC for W2. Even special DLC for CE owners (Blue Stripes combat jacket) is free for all gamers. And when I have problem with registration and pre-day-one game start - CDPRed make a gest of good will to any CE owner and i get t-shirt for free. And I don't tell about differences in Collector Editions. If you want to see what just look at photos. Enjoy
https://picasaweb.go...feat=directlink

Nice, but you do not have to prove anythign to me. I am very happy to take your word for it. I like CDPR, I also like Bioware. I personally believe a developer has every right to choose to go down either route paid for DLC or free. I hold nothing against them for doing either. I also like said hoped CDPR charged for DLC and kept mentioning to them though soem might not like my trying to push them to do so, but it is because like Bioware if they make somethign I love I want to support them and their future products.

[Gosia]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

I hate to tell you.....but it has nothing to do with the quality of ending or any part of the game.

A "phoned-in" ending  is crap any way you look at it.  Basically, if enough ppl can tell that they made the ending on a napkin then thats saying something.

Fact is, this is Bioware...and it's Mass Effect.  If this were to happen to any other game, with most any other developer, or if it were a  new game in the series, ppl wouldn't throw their money blindly into the fire.

As it stands, it seems Bioware can do anything and ppl wil still love them.  Like a husband beating his wife who then keeps going back saying "But he loves me....I just know it."

Ouch, not exactly the analogy I would choose:blink:

[Dragoonlordz]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

I hate to tell you.....but it has nothing to do with the quality of ending or any part of the game.

A "phoned-in" ending  is crap any way you look at it.  Basically, if enough ppl can tell that they made the ending on a napkin then thats saying something.

Fact is, this is Bioware...and it's Mass Effect.  If this were to happen to any other game, with most any other developer, or if it were a  new game in the series, ppl wouldn't throw their money blindly into the fire.

As it stands, it seems Bioware can do anything and ppl wil still love them.  Like a husband beating his wife who then keeps going back saying "But he loves me....I just know it."

You should probably avoid making the implication Bioware is the equivilant of a wife beater. I should also point out if someone beats their wife what your doing on the end of the scale is if your that wife, your in denial, hoping to change the person who supposedly hit you. In that situation you would be advised to walk away. But your still here so how are you any different.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 04:43 .

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

I hate to tell you.....but it has nothing to do with the quality of ending or any part of the game.

A "phoned-in" ending  is crap any way you look at it.  Basically, if enough ppl can tell that they made the ending on a napkin then thats saying something.

Fact is, this is Bioware...and it's Mass Effect.  If this were to happen to any other game, with most any other developer, or if it were a  new game in the series, ppl wouldn't throw their money blindly into the fire.

As it stands, it seems Bioware can do anything and ppl wil still love them.  Like a husband beating his wife who then keeps going back saying "But he loves me....I just know it."

You should probably avoid making the implication Bioware is the equivilant of a wife beater. I should also point out if someone beats their wife what your doing on the end of the scale is if your that wife, your in denial, hoping to change the person who supposedly hit you. In that situation you would be advised to walk away. But your still here so how are you any different.

The analogy isn't to be mean....it just fits perfectly.  Many fans keep going back after tim and time again of feeling they were not included when making games after ME1.  DA2 is streamlined, ME2 has barely any RPG elements, ME3 has an ending thats completely ignorant. 

Then those same ppl are going back to buy more.

I'm here b/c this actually does concern me.  Normally, I don't care, but I see this turning into a bad thing if it keeps up.

[Pallando]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The reason they dropped Modding is because they made no money from it so I agree.

Inaccurate. They made no money from the content they had not made.
But it does not cost them anything to leave an open API. 
In fact, it makes good publicity, for free...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

With games costing more and more to develop, the money off DLC is required these days.

Inaccurate, again. Games do not cost more and more to develop. Marketing does.
EA's goal is to maximize sales on day 1. Whatever the product, as long as they've sold it before release, they're good.
It's not very long-term oriented. And it doesn't sound like quality is involved. 

Dragoonlordz wrote...

We no longer live in a world where you can get triple A rated titles with top of the line CGI and graphics, music and staff at the same price as did few years back,. These are no longer the days when 8bit quality was all you ever needed. Though I do miss some of those classics but those can be made by fans instead of big business which go for the higher quality products which cost more to make.

I know it's not "triple A rated title", but Mount & Blade: Warband is a fun game with good graphics, pleasant music and it does not cost much. 


I'm not against DLCs, but I see three kinds:

• Merchandising: overpriced, but if you really support them you can show (Weapons, Horse armor)
• Expansions (short or long): good bang for your buck (LotSB)
• Free DLCs that change the game or add something. Good way to advertize. (Portal 2, TW2, ME1)

People talk about how it is a business and so it is normal to maximize profit. I understand your point. 
But is it ethical ? Humanity is what lacks in companies like Electronic Arts. They're doing math, not art. 
BioWare does not have to release a free or a paid DLC. They will do as they see fit. (Or as EA will.)

Would it be so bad though to make a free DLC ? Rumors say they did not have time to finish their product. 
They did not keep their promises (closure, numerous outcomes, ...). Many think that this conclusion was not the best they could do, because we know BioWare...
Anyway, they'd need some good publicity. When you see how much EA spends on marketing, would not that be acceptable to make something free which was developed in under 1 month ?

Modifié par Pallando, 02 avril 2012 - 04:57 .

[ThaddeusPL]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

/snip

Nice, but you do not have to prove anythign to me. I am very happy to take your word for it. I like CDPR, I also like Bioware. I personally believe a developer has every right to choose to go down either route paid for DLC or free. I hold nothing against them for doing either. I also like said hoped CDPR charged for DLC and kept mentioning to them though soem might not like my trying to push them to do so, but it is because like Bioware if they make somethign I love I want to support them and their future products.

I'm a fan of Bioware from Baldur's Gate - KoTOR - DA:O and ME, but I just lost faith in Bioware storytelling. If they have a block, black hole in the minds or whatever they said, I just can wait a month or two for full story. This is not hard to say to fans - we have some problems, can you, our dear fans, wait some till we make a great story for you? 
I think almost everyone will wait, even stockholders

[SalsaDMA]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Why all the conspiracy theories over a freaking game?

When it becomes an industry raking in billions of dollars, it stops being about "a freaking game", you know...

[Dragoonlordz]

Pallando wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The reason they dropped Modding is because they made no money from it so I agree.

Inaccurate. They made no money from the content they had not made.
But it does not cost them anything to leave an open API. 
In fact, it makes good publicity, for free...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

With games costing more and more to develop, the money off DLC is required these days.

Inaccurate, again. Games do not cost more and more to develop. Marketing does.
EA's goal is to maximize sales on day 1. Whatever the product, as long as they've sold it before release, they're good.
It's not very long-term oriented. And it doesn't sound like quality is involved. 

Dragoonlordz wrote...

We no longer live in a world where you can get triple A rated titles with top of the line CGI and graphics, music and staff at the same price as did few years back,. These are no longer the days when 8bit quality was all you ever needed. Though I do miss some of those classics but those can be made by fans instead of big business which go for the higher quality products which cost more to make.

I know it's not "triple A rated title", but Mount & Blade: Warband is a fun game with good graphics, pleasant music and it does not cost much. 


I'm not against DLCs, but I see three kinds:

• Merchandising: overpriced, but if you really support them you can show (Weapons, Horse armor)
• Expansions (short or long): good bang for your buck (LotSB)
• Free DLCs that change the game or add something. Good way to advertize. (Portal 2, TW2, ME1)

People talk about how it is a business and so it is normal to maximize profit. I understand your point. 
But is it ethical ? Humanity is what lacks in companies like Electronic Arts. They're doing math, not art. 
BioWare does not have to release a free or a paid DLC. They will do as they see fit. (Or as EA will.)

Would it be so bad to make a free DLC ? Rumors say they did not have time to finish their product. 
They did not keep their promises (closure, numerous outcomes, ...). Many think that this conclusion was not the best they could do, because we know BioWare...
Anyway, they'd need some good publicity. When you see how much EA spends on marketing, would not that be acceptable to make something free which was developed in under 1 month ?

1. Thats not completely true, there is very little incentive to buy DLC when fans are creating it themselves. It has an effect.

2. Sorry but I was correct, I already looked into this and had many discussions about the cost of CGI, VO and other elements including cost to hire staff rising many times in the past. Marketing is just one element of many that increased the cost vastly over the years and you cannot ignore the rest just because one element also does such.

3. If people want item packs and are willing to buy them then let them. If people wish to buy DLC and support the company by providing additional finance towards future products and content, let them. Both these things have a market and both have demand and people willing to pay. With all three they cost time and money to create, if a developer wishes to make some money back for that time and effort then I hold nothing against them for it. I do not consider myself selfish enough to want everything like that for free. I have a job and I am willing to pay to support future developments whether thats Bioware or CDPR.

There is nothing unethical about it (imho). A company exists to make profit, that profit keeps roofs over heads, food in families bellies and the more it makes the more people employed with roofs over heads and food in families bellies. I would call anyone who says they do not need to earn more a hypocrite as debated in the past with others it is hypocritical to make such statements because I bet they would never turn down a pay rise offered because they felt they earn enough to survive off already. The more a publisher and/or developer makes the more content they can fund and produce, more titles and more franchise and teams. While I am not saying this is something you have done, it is something I have seen occur many times now from others with similar views regarding the wishing for free DLC debate which is why I mentioned it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 02 avril 2012 - 05:17 .

[nycmode75]

Pallando wrote... 
So if you get a stinky apple pie in a restaurant when you were told the desserts were fabulous and original, you have to pay twice if you decide to try again their desserts... ?

I don't think this analogy is accurate.  If we are talking about complete/incomplete it would be like if you went to a restaurant and paid $XX for a three course meal and they only served you the appetizer and entree.  But if they served you a three course meal and you didn't like the flavor of the dessert, then the customer doesn't really have a right to complain.  That is different from say, if they served you a rotten dessert that needed to be replaced.  In the case of ME3, a lousy ending doesn't mean it's a broken ending or no ending at all.

[Mylia Stenetch]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Why all the conspiracy theories over a freaking game?

When it becomes an industry raking in billions of dollars, it stops being about "a freaking game", you know...

One game to complain about (ME3) does not equate to the entire gaming conglomerate. 

[AlanC9]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

I hate to tell you.....but it has nothing to do with the quality of ending or any part of the game.

A "phoned-in" ending  is crap any way you look at it.  Basically, if enough ppl can tell that they made the ending on a napkin then thats saying something.

Han Shot First didn't say the ending wasn't crap. He said the game was complete, and you're not disputing that.

[robtheguru]

The trick is, don't buy the game on release. Wait a year or two and get the gold/complete edition.

[SalsaDMA]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Why all the conspiracy theories over a freaking game?

When it becomes an industry raking in billions of dollars, it stops being about "a freaking game", you know...

One game to complain about (ME3) does not equate to the entire gaming conglomerate. 

It's not a problem isolated to a single game.

Heck, Already back in Dragon Age people were complaining about "Can you do this quest for me? Good, you just need to buy the DLC for my quest" (Not an actual quote, but close enough in effect)

[SalsaDMA]

AlanC9 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

I hate to tell you.....but it has nothing to do with the quality of ending or any part of the game.

A "phoned-in" ending  is crap any way you look at it.  Basically, if enough ppl can tell that they made the ending on a napkin then thats saying something.

Han Shot First didn't say the ending wasn't crap. He said the game was complete, and you're not disputing that.

Well.. Techincally all the IT preachers are implying the game didn't ship with the end...

[bigfootedfred]

Well.. Techincally all the IT preachers are implying the game didn't ship with the end...

indeed.

Would i put it past EA to think they could make $20 per sale for a ending dlc,
cutting said ending from the released game?

Nope.

[Mylia Stenetch]

SalsaDMA wrote...
It's not a problem isolated to a single game.

Heck, Already back in Dragon Age people were complaining about "Can you do this quest for me? Good, you just need to buy the DLC for my quest" (Not an actual quote, but close enough in effect)

This thread is about ME3, and the DLC. I am trying to keep it on topic so we do not get the lock down. For it being widespread, I agree, there has been examples of it around from Capcom, EA, Activision. All the big rigs trying to maximize profits.

[Dragoonlordz]

SalsaDMA wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

I hate to tell you.....but it has nothing to do with the quality of ending or any part of the game.

A "phoned-in" ending  is crap any way you look at it.  Basically, if enough ppl can tell that they made the ending on a napkin then thats saying something.

Han Shot First didn't say the ending wasn't crap. He said the game was complete, and you're not disputing that.

Well.. Techincally all the IT preachers are implying the game didn't ship with the end...

The IT preachers are wrong. I have even heard many of them say IT is a new ending. It is not an ending at all. It is a state of denial and desire to erase what exists and allow for an actual new ending to be created separately.

[Kuari999]

I had only minor issues with the DLC when I believed what they told us was true.... however the "DLC" is already on the disc and locked. So basically they lied about their reasons for the DLC.  That I have a HUGE issue with.  What happened to BioWare's integrity?

Modifié par Kuari999, 02 avril 2012 - 05:28 .

[Pallando]

nycmode75 wrote...

Pallando wrote... 
So if you
get a stinky apple pie in a restaurant when you were told the desserts
were fabulous and original, you have to pay twice if you decide to try
again their desserts... ?

I don't think this
analogy is accurate.  If we are talking about complete/incomplete it
would be like if you went to a restaurant and paid $XX for a three
course meal and they only served you the appetizer and entree.  But if
they served you a three course meal and you didn't like the flavor of
the dessert, then the customer doesn't really have a right to complain.
 That is different from say, if they served you a rotten dessert that
needed to be replaced.  In the case of ME3, a lousy ending doesn't mean
it's a broken ending or no ending at all.

Ok. Since I was talking about getting the dessert, I thought it was implied that it was some three course meal. 

But I've refined my analogy. No more "stinky pie". 
You ask for a three course meal and get to the dessert. 
You were promised a great selection of desserts. Not just three conventional apple pies, but a very complete selection of desserts. So when the time comes, you're awfully excited. The waiter comes. And you get three conventionnal apple pies. Not made with the same varieties of apples. But apple pies nonetheless. 

How would you react ? I understand that some would be ok because they like apple pies. But is it so surprising if someone calls the waiter ?

[Dude_in_the_Room]

AlanC9 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

You did get a complete game. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Just because you did not like the ending does not mean you were sold an incomplete product.

I'm not a fan of the endings and would love to see DLC that provides a more satisfying conclusion to the game. But if that DLC ever does get released, Bioware has every right to charge for it.

I hate to tell you.....but it has nothing to do with the quality of ending or any part of the game.

A "phoned-in" ending  is crap any way you look at it.  Basically, if enough ppl can tell that they made the ending on a napkin then thats saying something.

Han Shot First didn't say the ending wasn't crap. He said the game was complete, and you're not disputing that.

Do you know what "phoned -in" means?  It means half assed and giving up.  Technically it had an ending.  Then again, an ending could be simply killing one last Husk and then Sheperd saying "I'm tired" and then credits. 

Either way you're missing the point.  This isn't a few ppl....LOTS of ppl feel this way so theres got to be something to it.  But thats not even why I keep arguing.  It's b/c there seems to be a disconnect somewhere....a good amount of ppl loathing the ending, Bioware having less RPG elements in their later games, so called "lying", day one character DLC that should have been included, enough fans constanly complaining about one big thing ever Bioware game, and now the fact that no one is putting it past them to charge for DLC that "explains" the ending.

It just doesn't smell right.