282 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreogan]

The Angry One wrote...

There's nothing wrong with having the option for a happy ending, you know.
There's a ton of death and destruction in the game. Even the worst circumstances can have a happy ending.

Oh, I agree with you. But I also see Bioware's side on this: they want to say something, then they're welcome to say it.

The burden is on Bioware to give you something in exchange for what they require you to give up by locking out a happy ending. They need to make the "sad" ending  the more compelling ending.

They, quite obviously, catastrophically failed their first attempt. Here's for #2.

[Greed1914]

Mr Deathbot wrote...

The thing is when your reading a book your reading about someone elses story in mass effect Shepard's story is your story, Mass Effect basically is as much the player's story as it is the developer's. If Bioware wants to take away that away from us and make Shepard's story their story they shouldn't have made it and RPG in the first place.

Exactly.  They've said in interviews how the story was as much the players' as theirs.  I have a hard time rolling with the whole, "but it's their story" argument when they have basically asked us to be invested in it and feel like we had some say.  With a passive medium like a book or a movie, that is never the case because you know you're just being told someone else's story.  They never ask you to participate.

[Mr.House]

Wait wait wait, did he just use J.K Rowling and Harry Potter as a point? Despite the fact she changed the ending to please her fans?

[Mev186]

Someone at Bioware needs to answer, "What is wrong with a happy ending ?"

But if we can't get that, I'd be fine with one that made any sort of logical sense.

[oracle343gspark]

mebtru wrote...

I wonder how the Harry Potter fans, would react if in the end Voldemort is just a peon and some random character appears and tell harry potter that he must destroy all the magic just because he was controlling Voldemort. lolololololol

So much win right here!

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

mebtru wrote...

I wonder how the Harry Potter fans, would react if in the end Voldemort is just a peon and some random character appears and tell harry potter that he must destroy all the magic just because he was controlling Voldemort. lolololololol

I think there would actually be real world deaths

[Mr Deathbot]

NikitaDarkstar wrote...

*sigh* Honestly, I'm having issues taking any site that says we want a "happy ending" seriously. (Heck I have issues taking any fan seriously who says they want a happy ending? If you expected one of those you were playing the wrong game.)

I never expected a happy ending going into Mass Effect 3. Hell I was sure shepard was gonna die at the end. I just wish they had atleast one good ending not everything needs to be sad and depressing to be good and in not every story does the main character need to die for it to be good.

[Zulmoka531]

Mr.House wrote...

Wait wait wait, did he just use J.K Rowling and Harry Potter as a point? Despite the fact she changed the ending to please her fans?

Indeed but the way they would spin such a thing is, she changed prior to the final edition and wasn't compelled to by her fans after the fact. Ya know before it sold well enough and then and only then could be considered art.

[Muhvitus]

i don't mind if the ending happy or not, i want it to be EXCELLENT! The problem with the current ending isn't that it is not a happy ending, the problem is that is sucks every possible way.

Modifié par Muhvitus, 02 avril 2012 - 07:02 .

[Xandurpein]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

There's nothing wrong with having the option for a happy ending, you know.
There's a ton of death and destruction in the game. Even the worst circumstances can have a happy ending.

But..but "happy endings" are too mainstream! And thus cannot be considred art!
What would the world think?!?! Where would all the speculations go!?!

Jokes aside, I think a 100% happy ending would be tasteless considering how much death and destruction it has been in the story. There has to be room for some solemn remembrance of the fallen too. Beyond that, I'm not even sure we can all agree on what IS a meaningful happy ending.

[Greed1914]

Mev186 wrote...

Someone at Bioware needs to answer, "What is wrong with a happy ending ?"

But if we can't get that, I'd be fine with one that made any sort of logical sense.

I'm pretty sure the only thing "wrong" with it is that they just didn't want to give us one.  I can't see anything wrong with it when we can get through something called a Suicided Mission with zero casualties.  Or maybe it didn't work since it probably would have required extra footage and they clearly wanted to recycle as much as possible. 

[ed87]

Ive been working in hospitality for 8 years and this kind of behaviour reminds me of the upset chef who gets a dish sent back. The usual responses are:

- "They dont know anything about food."

- "They cant change my recipe."

- "Thats the way it is, if they dont like it order something else."

- "Ive been doing this for X years i know what im doing."


But at the end of the day, if a dish on a menu gets enough negative feedback it will be changed or removed completely. Even great chef's featured on tv will get things wrong now and then, especially under pressure or time constraints.

Bioware need to be a bit more humble and realise their writers arent Gods and can still make human errors. I used to pursue art and even though i was on top of my class every year, i would still produce work now and then that 'no one gets'. The easiest way to deal with it is to be defensive and to place yourself above the audience for being 'gifted' in art.

[Dreogan]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Wait wait wait, did he just use J.K Rowling and Harry Potter as a point? Despite the fact she changed the ending to please her fans?

Indeed but the way they would spin such a thing is, she changed prior to the final edition and wasn't compelled to by her fans after the fact. Ya know before it sold well enough and then and only then could be considered art.

Maybe it's a hint of things to come at PAX!

LOTS OF SPECULATION F--

*coughing fit*

[tenojitsu]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Well... let's be fair. The writing in mass effect IS really good, with a couple of exceptions. If it was terrible, we wouldn't care about it so much.

It's is really good (for the most part), for a video game. Video game writers have the luxury of having their stories reinforced by visuals and music to help tell the story, as well as voice actors who speak the written words with different emphasis, tone, feelings, and emotions.

I'm sorry, but the writing is just one of the many aspects that make a video game story work. Novel authors have only the words they carefully choose to tell their stories. BioWare's writing is not really good. It is really good for a video game.

[ky0dar]

On the other hand, I thought the epilogue to HP sucked.

[xsdob]

It seems he acknowledges the mistakes listed by the retake movement, at least with the ending not fitting the narrative. But at the same time warns that listing specific events to happen, I.E. the indoctrination theory, are the ones who he doesn't like.

So basically, he wants the artist to be the one who has final say on what changes occur in the endings and not the fans, which is not only fair but in his rights to do so. Let them know your displeasure but try not to list specific events you want to see, that doesn't get counted towards consideration.

[BARRAGE 74]

No matter what it does, BioWare won't please everybody, Mr. Nichols
said, adding "I wonder if the "Retake Mass Effect' fans are prepared for
that or whether they will burn out their own cause."

[/i]

Just for clarifications, Bioware Mythic is part of EA, and Muzyka is the Group General Manager: http://en.wikipedia....c_Entertainment

[/quote]

He's missing the point like so many others.  If the Retake movement doesn't get a satisfying conclusion we jump ship.  That means we won't buy any dlc and ME4 won't be a definant buy.  Many of us will go so far as to swear off Bioware products all together.  It seems they're inclined to believe that no matter what we're just supposed to buy whatever they push out.  I believe Bioware is going to put that assumption to the test by not addressing our concerns at PAX.  Then they'll release pre-ending dlc with no real fix to the endings.  It's a gamble they will lose.  Geeezzz it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

[Greed1914]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Wait wait wait, did he just use J.K Rowling and Harry Potter as a point? Despite the fact she changed the ending to please her fans?

Indeed but the way they would spin such a thing is, she changed prior to the final edition and wasn't compelled to by her fans after the fact. Ya know before it sold well enough and then and only then could be considered art.

Ha.  You're right.  I have a hard time accepting that the series being done as justification.  What's the point in even asking us for feedback if that is going to be the excuse?  Sure, it could get implemented in another game, but that doesn't help here.

Also, they definitely aren't "done."  That nice advertisement for DLC at the end said as much.  

[Hexi-decimal]

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Not surprising, he should note the current ending is certainly NOT consistent with the narrative of anything in ME.

To be entirely honest, the thing that stands out the most in ridiculousness to me in the triliogy is the "human reaper" at the end of 2.  But hey, I have been called all kinds of names here.  Hell in an earlier thread you basically said me and other with the same opinion were liars : D

[Zulmoka531]

Xandurpein wrote...

Zulmoka531 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

There's nothing wrong with having the option for a happy ending, you know.
There's a ton of death and destruction in the game. Even the worst circumstances can have a happy ending.

But..but "happy endings" are too mainstream! And thus cannot be considred art!
What would the world think?!?! Where would all the speculations go!?!

Jokes aside, I think a 100% happy ending would be tasteless considering how much death and destruction it has been in the story. There has to be room for some solemn remembrance of the fallen too. Beyond that, I'm not even sure we can all agree on what IS a meaningful happy ending.

Actually I agree with you. "Happy ending" can actually vary, bittersweet can be happy, even grim dark can have some of a resolution that can impart happiness or rather satisfaction. Me3 was lacking as such.

I'm more than willing to listen to defenders of the ending, or rather why it shouldn't be changed. But this "art" thing is getting stupid.

[BogdanV]

Wasn't this argument already talked to death and dismissed before ? I'm honestly starting to feel that others are actually acting immaturely. *looks at a portion of the gaming industry*

Modifié par BogdanV, 02 avril 2012 - 07:10 .

[Soviet Rei]

Xandurpein wrote...
Jokes aside, I think a 100% happy ending would be tasteless considering how much death and destruction it has been in the story. There has to be room for some solemn remembrance of the fallen too. Beyond that, I'm not even sure we can all agree on what IS a meaningful happy ending.

I'd've liked an ending where my Shepard just killed the Reapers and then went and lived with Jack contently or something. Whilst, of course, recalling sadly those who died, Mordin, Thane, Legion, so on. But nope. I have a choice between becoming a god, spreading my DNA throughout the universe (and dissolving in the process) and eliminating galactic civilisation as we know it. Is it too much to ask for just a simple ending?

Anyway, it's a game, and games are meant to be enjoyed by their players, especially a game like Mass Effect where you are meant to be a part of the experience and guide your character as you wish. You really can't say 'It's our game, we do what we want with it' when your main selling point is that the player controls the plot.

[Solmanian]

The harry potter ending sucked big time. There's also a big difference between changing your story before the book is published, which is a natural part of writing, and between changing your ending after the book is out. You don't see people republishing their books, "now a revised version, with a better ending!".It would've been better if they killed harry, only it might've traumatized the kids... But than again the ending of the narnia ending realy shocked me: "Yay! our parents died in a train accident!". I cant wait to see how they handle it in hollywood...

[zephyr2025]

Everyday I have less and less respect for Bioware