282 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

AtlasMickey wrote...

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Not surprising, he should note the current ending is certainly NOT consistent with the narrative of anything in ME.

No he shouldn't, because it certainly IS. You will all burn out. Your line will fall.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Synthesis alone contradicts the driving force behind the entire plot. 

Homoegenization is good, diversity does not make you stronger. 

Oh, but what about ME1 and ME2? Wasn't uniting a bunch of aliens, all with different perspectives and conflicting racial pasts, one of the main themes, particularly in ME2 where is was the entire point of 80% of the game? And then didn't ME3 drive this home with the subtelty of a brick to the face when you unite all these factions, including the Geth and the Quarians, thus proving the Catalyst completely wrong?

Apparently not. 

[SillyNydia]

They need to get off the "art" bandwagon. It's just a generic response trying to justify what they put out. We all know they lied during multiple interviews about the ending of this entire story as well, but that doesn't exist in their mind so they turn to "art"

When you make 3 products that boast about choices and consequences of those choices and clearly state that your choices will impact the end of the game but turn around and any choice you made throughout the entire trilogy has no importance in the slightest, you have a problem.

The only thing they can even remotely claim is that having a high war asset unlocks synthesis option. So, me having a huge fleet somehow "magically" unleashed "magic" into the crucible to allow this.

The ending is not consistent with anything Mass Effect. Your choices aren't factored in, you can't even choose your own dialogue options. You're watching a video on your screen with no interactivity at all. Then you get to walk to an A / B / C ending. But it's "art" so therefore everyone should just drop it and leave us (Bioware) alone.

I would really love for ANYONE at Bioware to sit down, look at all the interviews that have been logged, all of their responses about the ending of Mass Effect and honestly tell us that they gave us what they said they would. Let them try to explain their "artistic integrity" after their own ignorance is set in front of them.

[Gerudan]

RenascentAnt1 wrote...

The link: http://adage.com/art...-ending/233848/

The comment:

At a recent panel about video games as art, Paul Barnett, senior
creative director at BioWare Mythic, another one of EA's game
developers, was asked about the controversy.



"If computer games are art, than I fully endorse the author of the
artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen," Mr.
Barnett said, according to a video posted on the site of tech-news
publication The Verge. "Just as J.K. Rowling can end her books and say,
"That is the end of Harry Potter.' I don't think she should be forced to
make another one," Mr. Barnett said.

If this is real, it is really a stupid comment. A book is only another way for the writer to tell you a story. Instead of sitting next to you, he writes it down, so you can read it for yourself.

But in a game such as Mass Effect always was, the player influences the story and makes decisions. This was one of the big reasons, why the series was so successful and they betrayed this in the last 15-20 minutes of the game, because all the endings are essential the same and they all not only ignore your decisions in three games, but outright destroy them.

And then to say: "Screw you and all your time, you invested in the games! This is, how WE want to end it!" is just wrong on so many levels. Games are interactive art, the player DOES something in the games and isn't just passively taking the story in.

[Karmicmoogle]

a book/movie - set journey no choices
game marketed as You decide - the journey is not set. The player or his/her actions decide the outcome. Convenient "apples and oranges" comparison is convenient when the journo's feel like it

[chester013]

Isn't this the guy that made that POS warhammer online? When he stops putting out half finished games (or anything good) I'll take his opinion seriously

[Yubz]

Wasn't Paul Barnett the guy who also made a lot of empty promises for Warhammer Online?
...
Yeah not really surprised he has their back.

[AlexXIV]

Well we are not demanding a specific ending. We want them to fill the plotholes and change what needs to be changed to make the whole thing work. Synthesis does not work at all for me. If they don't cut that out they may as well leave it as it is.

[phat0817]

If Bioware changed the ending and say 75 percent of take back me3 fans like it and I was in the 25 percent who didn't I could live with that. He's right can't make everybody happy...but right now you got pretty much nobody happy..

[jumpingkaede]

Shermos wrote...

The_Crazy_Hand wrote...

Not surprising, he should note the current ending is certainly NOT consistent with the narrative of anything in ME.

*Face palm*

The game prepared the player for the ending with the subtlety of a sledge hammer. The themes of cycles and the consequences of breaking them were there right from the start of ME3. This and other themes dealth with were arguably there as far back as ME1.

On Topic: Good on you Bioware for taking a stand! I for one am happy with the endings the way are they are and even if I wasn't, it's YOUR story to tell as YOU wish, regardless of it being interatcive.

Yes.  "Break the cycle... by stopping the Reapers."

And NOT "Break the cycle... by resolving the longstanding and inevitable conflict between organics and their created AIs."

But since you're so sure that the theme has always been present in the trilogy go ahead.  Name some examples from ME1 and ME2 that address any of the following:

- Organics will always create synthetic AIs that will turn on them and destroy all organic life in the galaxy.  Note that the Reapers are not AIs nor do we know whether they were created by organics or synthetics.

- Consequences of stopping the Reapers; specifically, negative and/or galaxy-spanning consequences.

- In THIS cycle, organics were going to or had created AIs that will inevitably destroy all organic life in the galaxy.

- In the previous cycle, the Protheans created AIs that turned on them and threatened to destroy all organic life in the galaxy.

- In every or any previous cycle, organics created AIs that turned on them or threatened to turn on them and destroy all organic life in the galaxy.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 02 avril 2012 - 04:19 .

[AlexXIV]

phat0817 wrote...

If Bioware changed the ending and say 75 percent of take back me3 fans like it and I was in the 25 percent who didn't I could live with that. He's right can't make everybody happy...but right now you got pretty much nobody happy..

50 or 40 percent would actually be enough. If about half of the retakers stopped holding the line then the movement is done. Because then it would simply be a 'polarizing' ending. So you could say some like it, some don't. Right now guesstimates are that a huge majority of 80-90 percent don't like it.

[jds1bio]

phat0817 wrote...

If Bioware changed the ending and say 75 percent of take back me3 fans like it and I was in the 25 percent who didn't I could live with that. He's right can't make everybody happy...but right now you got pretty much nobody happy..

[cotheer]

Oh look, another one of those "this is teh art" arguments which essentially means "BS ahead!"

[BadlyBrowned]

Zulmoka531 wrote...

Author's and artists have the right to do what ever they please. But they also have to take the criticism that comes with it.

They don't have to do a damn thing to these endings, but then they need to brace the repercussion of such. As we see now, it's not going so well for them.

I agree with this statement completely. 

[RenascentAnt1]

Gerudan wrote...

RenascentAnt1 wrote...

The link: http://adage.com/art...-ending/233848/

The comment:

At a recent panel about video games as art, Paul Barnett, senior
creative director at BioWare Mythic, another one of EA's game
developers, was asked about the controversy.



"If computer games are art, than I fully endorse the author of the
artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen," Mr.
Barnett said, according to a video posted on the site of tech-news
publication The Verge. "Just as J.K. Rowling can end her books and say,
"That is the end of Harry Potter.' I don't think she should be forced to
make another one," Mr. Barnett said.

If this is real, it is really a stupid comment. A book is only another way for the writer to tell you a story. Instead of sitting next to you, he writes it down, so you can read it for yourself.

But in a game such as Mass Effect always was, the player influences the story and makes decisions. This was one of the big reasons, why the series was so successful and they betrayed this in the last 15-20 minutes of the game, because all the endings are essential the same and they all not only ignore your decisions in three games, but outright destroy them.

And then to say: "Screw you and all your time, you invested in the games! This is, how WE want to end it!" is just wrong on so many levels. Games are interactive art, the player DOES something in the games and isn't just passively taking the story in.

Go to the link - it's actually a panel of different people from the games industry.

They should hire this guy (copied and pasted from the same article):

Though he wasn't familiar with the "Mass Effect" dustup, Questus
co-founder Jeff Rosenblum said he would "counsel any brand from any
company that you absolutely have to listen to [critics] -- you can't
ignore them." But brands must realize at some point that "customers are
customers, and while they're brilliant, the people you've hired and
trained are experts, too," he said. "You need to find a way to blend the
two."

Modifié par RenascentAnt1, 02 avril 2012 - 04:27 .

[starscreamerx31]

More variety from bioware please.

[XTR3M3]

in response to that "trapeeze" picture and keeping with its analogy...
we were only disappointed because they promised to catch us and didn't on purpose. If they had told us in advance they weren't going to catch us or just not promised to catch us, we could have put a net up and prepared.

Modifié par XTR3M3, 02 avril 2012 - 04:28 .

[AGogley]

The ending was bad enough. Now you want to insult us? Keep your stupid ending and I'll keep my money when you put out your next DLC or game.

[Lord Stark]

Foulpancake wrote...

Considering they are 110% clueless, JK rowling changed the end of Harry Potter, she was originally going to have Harry die, but fan response was very negative so she changed it before the release.

Too bad they didn't do a lick of research or even have any clue what they were talking about....

This, and JK didn't kill Hagrid because her sister said she'd kill her if she did.  JK listens to her fans.

[Midarc2nd]

Mythic...
Lot of fond memories from DAOC has left me with a soft spot for them guys.
Not that they're the same company these days, mind.

The art defence (still seems a little silly to call it that) still doesn't hold water.
There are far too many readily made examples of much more worthy mediums responding to criticism that didn't originate from press, but from fans.

There's a more relavent issue behind this though.
If we strip away the various arguements and rationals behind what happened, defence for it and opposition, the decision they make is going to have a direct influence on sales of DLC and subsequent titles.
That will be one of the most deciding factors in what is to come.

Percieving oneself as maintaining the integrity of an artistic endevour is all well and good. (even if you are wrong, it's admirable to show that degree of belief, however misdirected)
Unfortunately, it doesn't pay too well.

[Lietuvis]

This will cause a lot of anger, and damn, they will lose many fans as well, myself included.

[The_Duke75]

Something consistent with the narrative is something we want, so indeed it's something specific. Well played, dude, now go back to Warhammer online and ruin it some more instead of playing the art card.

Seriously, will they ever learn that you don't try to put out a fire by using fuel? One more statement of that kind and I'll pay someone to insult my intelligence instead of giving the money to BW/EA, at least then I know that I get what I've paid for.

Modifié par The_Duke75, 02 avril 2012 - 05:07 .

[macrocarl]

Ending an epic is always hard to resolve. There's so much stuff to tie up. They tend to end 'bitter sweet' in my experience. While I belive that people who bought the game should have a satisfying conclusion on the disc, I do rather enjoy the ending being unconventional and if IT, or something along those lines is in fact what BW was shooting for, it's pretty brilliant. But there are a ton of unanswered questions that should be addressed one way or another. And if it's DLC that is either free or paid for, so long as it has the emotional impact the 99% of ME3 had, I'm all for it.

[The Anti-Saint]

Mr Deathbot wrote...

The thing is when your reading a book your reading about someone elses story in mass effect Shepard's story is your story, Mass Effect basically is as much the player's story as it is the developer's. If Bioware wants to take away that away from us and make Shepard's story their story they shouldn't have made it and RPG in the first place.

ME3 is, for lack of a better term, dynamic-art; not static like a sculpture, painting, or book; but malleable. In its final form it allows us some limited influence over the story outcome, and that makes it a fair bit more personal to us. We drive the character to whatever end we have in mind, especially after they tell us we will be rewarded with sixteen or so endings to choose from; fairly large carrot don't you think?

Now picture each of us with our own train racing toward the final goal. We expect multiple junction points to switch us to a track that will take us to one of the sixteen or so endings. We get through one with three paths and think after this one you will get to another junction. Now that carrot looks like it's within reach, the excitement building to higher levels. You are almost there, but something goes horribly wrong. Instead of reaching another junction point, the three tracks converge into one, and you slam into a multicolored terminal station at full speed...but it gets worse. Now here comes someone elses train right behind you, and BAM! Wreck on wreck...and it keeps going on and on. Oh carrot...where are you? Now you feel like you've been beaten with an RGBOMGWTFJH stick...the end.

The obvious conclusion is that they were a bit too ambitious with the number of endings they told us they would deliver. They created a runaway train of expectations that crashed and burned at the end. This of course left us with a great deal of mental rubble to sift through...but imho, many of us were also at fault for letting our expectations soar so high. Hopefully there is a solution that satisfies both sides so we can move on from this mess.

Comments welcome.

[SovereignWillReturn]

Dreogan wrote...

JK Rowling is a damn good storyteller. To even compare Bioware's craft to Rowling is metaphorically spitting in her face.

This. People may have no liked the ending to Harry Potter, but she wrote it SO DAMN WELL, that it was still a good ending.

Bioware had so many plot holes, calling it swiss cheese is an understatement

[goose2989]

I laughed a bit when I saw he referred to JK Rowling. From what I understand, she wanted Harry to die fighting Voldemort, but fans didn't. And, what do you know, Harry lives a happily ever after life with Ginny