109 réponses à ce sujet

[Surgate]

For what it is worth I actually enjoyed playing a Human Soldier with an Avenger and specialized in weapon damage (no concussive shot) more than my Salarian Engineer. I also generally placed pretty high on the charts in Silver and Gold matches. Sure, it is not a min-max type of class but I don't really care about that since my main class is an Asari Vanguard with a shotgun.

[Atrumitos]

Soldiers aren't tanks and they aren't damage dealers either. They have no abilities to seriously help their team on top of it. So what role do they fill? None.

I love soldier, mind you, but the other classes can do it all better. Mostly because he has nothing special when it comes to offense or defense other than the guns every other class uses, which are also limited by ammo... unlike powers.

Lots of limiting factors in general.

Modifié par Atrumitos, 02 avril 2012 - 08:30 .

[Arppis]

zhk3r wrote...

> No surviveability at all, compared to other classes.
> The most relevant weapons are severely underpowered as compared to slow firing weapons.
> Is not a team player, cannot set up most combos other classes can.
> Does not have the same damage output as any other class, Engineers included.

I don't know. I used to have love for the Soldier in the previous Mass Effect's, but in the multiplayer he seems .. irrelevant. Did a run the other night with three friends, all playing Soldier. We finished Firebase Ghost vs Reapers Gold in 17 minutes - but had a whole lot of deaths just because surviving with the Soldier can be a b*tch as compared to any other class.

Is not a team player because can't set up some combos? Whut?

You can keep enemies down or staggered with concusion shot spam. While your team rips them appart. Works like charm.

[Atheosis]

On Gold, I generally score 90-100k points with my Human Soldier spamming maxed out Concussive Shot and using a Falcon with max damage evolutions (+27.5%). There is a limited number of viable builds for Soldier, but there are some.

Modifié par Atheosis, 02 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[jaydubs67]

Atheosis wrote...

On Gold, I generally score 90-100k points with my Human Soldier spamming maxed out Concussive Shot and using a Falcon with max damage evolutions (+27.5%). There is a limited number of viable builds for Soldier, but there are some.

Could you post the full build and necessary equipment?  And maybe a video if you have the time/software?  Sounds like something I'd want to try out.  

[Maria Caliban]

I've found soldiers to be a bit on the boring side. I leveled one human soldier to 20 and played several silver matches with her. My experience is that they can be solid but unremarkable.

[fantazja]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

On Gold, I generally score 90-100k points with my Human Soldier spamming maxed out Concussive Shot and using a Falcon with max damage evolutions (+27.5%). There is a limited number of viable builds for Soldier, but there are some.

Could you post the full build and necessary equipment?  And maybe a video if you have the time/software?  Sounds like something I'd want to try out.  

i'd like to see this build as well.

[Atheosis]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

On Gold, I generally score 90-100k points with my Human Soldier spamming maxed out Concussive Shot and using a Falcon with max damage evolutions (+27.5%). There is a limited number of viable builds for Soldier, but there are some.

Could you post the full build and necessary equipment?  And maybe a video if you have the time/software?  Sounds like something I'd want to try out.  

My build is 0/6/6/6/6 (Adrenaline Rush just gets in the way of Concussive Shot spam, so I don't bother).  Maxed health and shields, maxed damage bonuses (skip headshot bonus, as it doesn't do anything with a Falcon), Concussive Shot can be any build you want (but I prefer Shredder and the AOE), and maxed out radius on Frag Grenade with bleed damage and bonus armor damage.  

The key to this build is to stagger and knock enemies prone at every possible opportunity, and to prioritize enemy groups where you can hit multiple targets with your Falcon and Frag Grenades.  I've also found that you should never aim zoom with the Falcon as it increases the dud rate of the grenades considerably (and really isn't necessary anyway,even at long range).  Just focus on disrupting enemies with CS spam and grenades and hit them as hard as possible when bunched up and should generally do well on Gold.

Oh and as far as equipment goes, make sure to use a heavy barrel with the Falcon (the other mod is more personal preference, but I prefer extended mag so I can shoot more before having to reload).  Cryo ammo is pure awesone wth this build, but isn't strictly necessary.  And I also like to take a Predator X with piercing V for big armored targets and guardians (doesn't affect recharge times in a meaningful way), but that 's personal preference.

Modifié par Atheosis, 02 avril 2012 - 09:42 .

[CommonSince]

Soldiers can do wonders . . . that being said. They are extremely independent from the group as a whole. I loved playing soldier, promoted 3 of them trying slightly different builds but found strait damage is the only way to play effectively with them. Max everything except nades they become useless in silver/gold as you cannot get enough from ammo crates.

I have promoted every other class, some multiple times and when I went back to the soldier I personally found him VERY unimpressive. The other classes offer so much more to the group. Stasis bubble, combat drone, shield drain, pull, need I go on?
-Run, run, as fast as you can. You're a Turian. You can't dodge roll!- (Krogan works too)

[Elecbender]

CommonSince wrote...

Soldiers can do wonders . . . that being said. They are extremely independent from the group as a whole. I loved playing soldier, promoted 3 of them trying slightly different builds but found strait damage is the only way to play effectively with them. Max everything except nades they become useless in silver/gold as you cannot get enough from ammo crates.

I have promoted every other class, some multiple times and when I went back to the soldier I personally found him VERY unimpressive. The other classes offer so much more to the group. Stasis bubble, combat drone, shield drain, pull, need I go on?
-Run, run, as fast as you can. You're a Turian. You can't dodge roll!- (Krogan works too)

Proximity mine gives the entire team a damage bonus.  

[GreeceMonkE]

Atheosis wrote...


My build is 0/6/6/6/6 (Adrenaline Rush just gets in the way of Concussive Shot spam, so I don't bother).  Maxed health and shields, maxed damage bonuses (skip headshot bonus, as it doesn't do anything with a Falcon), Concussive Shot can be any build you want (but I prefer Shredder and the AOE), and maxed out radius on Frag Grenade with bleed damage and bonus armor damage.  

The key to this build is to stagger and knock enemies prone at every possible opportunity, and to prioritize enemy groups where you can hit multiple targets with your Falcon and Frag Grenades.  I've also found that you should never aim zoom with the Falcon as it increases the dud rate of the grenades considerably (and really isn't necessary anyway,even at long range).  Just focus on disrupting enemies with CS spam and grenades and hit them as hard as possible when bunched up and should generally do well on Gold.

Oh and as far as equipment goes, make sure to use a heavy barrel with the Falcon (the other mod is more personal preference, but I prefer extended mag so I can shoot more before having to reload).  Cryo ammo is pure awesone wth this build, but isn't strictly necessary.  And I also like to take a Predator X with piercing V for big armored targets and guardians (doesn't affect recharge times in a meaningful way), but that 's personal preference.

Thanks I will try out this build and see how I like it compared to by AR spam.

[zhk3r]

Arppis wrote...
Is not a team player because can't set up some combos? Whut? 

You can keep enemies down or staggered with concusion shot spam. While your team rips them appart. Works like charm.

He's not a "team player" because he doesn't bring any noticeable abilites or damage output to the match. Yes, Adrenaline Rush ups your damage, but not to the extent a Soldier outplays an Asari (considering both players have the same amount of skill). It can be fun to mess around in Silver with Concussive Shot and Shotgun spam, but it's not like the Soldier class is very usable in Gold. It's not a problem to play him, but every other class is better.

[Cyonan]

zhk3r wrote...

He's not a "team player" because he doesn't bring any noticeable abilites or damage output to the match. Yes, Adrenaline Rush ups your damage, but not to the extent a Soldier outplays an Asari (considering both players have the same amount of skill). It can be fun to mess around in Silver with Concussive Shot and Shotgun spam, but it's not like the Soldier class is very usable in Gold. It's not a problem to play him, but every other class is better.

The Soldier is usable on gold.

There is a difference between usable/viable and optimal. They are not optimal, but they are viable.

I would also say they can keep up fine with the other race/class combos that aren't a part of the god tier(AA/SI/SE mainly).

[zhk3r]

Cyonan wrote...
The Soldier is usable on gold.

There is a difference between usable/viable and optimal. They are not optimal, but they are viable.

I would also say they can keep up fine with the other race/class combos that aren't a part of the god tier(AA/SI/SE mainly).

He's playable on Gold, yes. When I'm sick of being a tryhard, I'll roll the soldier for fun, but he's still the weakest class in the game.

Lobby:

> Human Vanguard
> Asari Adept
> Drell Adept
> Human Soldier

He's the odd man out. I've always had love for Soldier, but not in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer.

[Cyonan]

zhk3r wrote...

He's playable on Gold, yes. When I'm sick of being a tryhard, I'll roll the soldier for fun, but he's still the weakest class in the game.

Lobby:

> Human Vanguard
> Asari Adept
> Drell Adept
> Human Soldier

He's the odd man out. I've always had love for Soldier, but not in Mass Effect 3's multiplayer.

So you think that team would be better off with a Human Engineer that disrupts biotic combos?

Not being "optimal" is not the same as being the worst and garbage.

[zhk3r]

Cyonan wrote...
So you think that team would be better off with a Human Engineer that disrupts biotic combos?

Not being "optimal" is not the same as being the worst and garbage.

He's the weakest class in the game, if you disagree about that - I'd appreciate it if you could list some reasons as to why he's not. I've invested a lot of time into the multiplayer side of ME3 and personally I've come to the conclusion that Soldier is the weakest class. That doesn't mean he's not playable and is total garbage, it means every other class is better in one way or another. 

The reason you'd choose Soldier in the previous versions of Mass Effect is because he could wield any weapon and had a bunch of different ammo types which made him be a versatile fighter without thinking to much about your squad selection. There are a few simple changes that could be made to the Soldier class that would drastically improve it.

> Adrenaline Rush being one: Regenerating 10 % of your shield when activated is not good enough when compared to an ability like Energy Drain or Biotic Charge.

> Frag grenades are inferor to any other type of grenade (Cluster Grenades being the best, without a doubt). They stagger enemies and cause little damage compared to other grenades, stickies are way better. 

> Carnage (Krogan/Battlefield 3) is superior to Concussive Shot in every way. Esentially it does what the fourth (?) evolution of Carnage does: Knock enemies to the ground.

Modifié par zhk3r, 02 avril 2012 - 10:27 .

[Cyonan]

zhk3r wrote...

Cyonan wrote...
So you think that team would be better off with a Human Engineer that disrupts biotic combos?

Not being "optimal" is not the same as being the worst and garbage.

He's the weakest class in the game, if you disagree about that - I'd appreciate it if you could list some reasons as to why he's not. I've invested a lot of time into the multiplayer side of ME3 and personally I've come to the conclusion that Soldier is the weakest class. That doesn't mean he's not playable and is total garbage, it means every other class is better in one way or another.

The reason you'd choose Soldier in the previous versions of Mass Effect is because he could wield any weapon and had a bunch of different ammo types which made him be a versatile fighter without thinking to much about your squad selection. There are a few simple changes that could be made to the Soldier class that would drastically improve it.

> Adrenaline Rush being one: Regenerating 10 % of your shield when activated is not good enough when compared to an ability like Energy Drain or Biotic Charge.

> Frag grenades are inferor to any other type of grenade (Cluster Grenades being the best, without a doubt). They stagger enemies and cause little damage compared to other grenades, stickies are way better.

> Carnage (Krogan/Battlefield 3) is superior to Concussive Shot in every way. Esentially it does what the fourth (?) evolution of Carnage does: Knock enemies to the ground.

Put a Falcon on a Turian Soldier, you now have someone who is pumping out very solid AoE damage as well as AoE CC since every shot is a stagger(and yes it's effective in gold post-nerf, I can break 100k points in gold on a TS with Falcon II) Turian Soldiers in general can take a lot of the slow or high recoil weapons and make them into half decent weapons because of stability bonuses + Marksman. Turians with Proxy Mine can also debuff enemies for 20% more damage taken, something that only a Salarian Infiltrator could do and they wont sacrifice Tactical Cloak or Energy Drain to get it.

Adrenaline Rush is also a 65% damage boost as well as a free reload.

Frag Grenades I would have to agree are a very poor grenade, but that's one race of 3 that get them.

Not sure how Carnage being better than Concussive Shot is relevant. They're both Soldier abilities.

Soldiers are just very reliant on their guns since 2 of the 3 races have their main ability boosting weapon damage somehow. The biggest drawback to the Soldier is how good or bad your luck is with the RNG of equipment packs.

That isn't to say they're without issues, though. Just that they aren't really the worst. It's also kind of hard to say worst class since something like Salarian Engineer is going to be leagues ahead of the Quarian Engineer.

[TLK Spires]

MNeidig wrote...

So Soldiers in our MP are like Warriors in WoW. For those that are familiar with that game, they're also the most gear-dependant class and don't perform well without the right equipment.

No wonder I like the soldier so much, I play a Warrior in WoW.

and that's where the comparison ends. a warrior in wow with great gear is damn near unstoppable in pvp. a soldier with great weapons here is (at best) marginally better than other classes with great weapons, and only when it comes to pointing and shooting. 

[zhk3r]

Cyonan wrote...
Put a Falcon on a Turian Soldier, you now have someone who is pumping out very solid AoE damage as well as AoE CC since every shot is a stagger(and yes it's effective in gold post-nerf, I can break 100k points in gold on a TS with Falcon II) Turian Soldiers in general can take a lot of the slow or high recoil weapons and make them into half decent weapons because of stability bonuses + Marksman. Turians with Proxy Mine can also debuff enemies for 20% more damage taken, something that only a Salarian Infiltrator could do and they wont sacrifice Tactical Cloak or Energy Drain to get it.

Adrenaline Rush is also a 65% damage boost as well as a free reload.

Frag Grenades I would have to agree are a very poor grenade, but that's one race of 3 that get them.

Not sure how Carnage being better than Concussive Shot is relevant. They're both Soldier abilities.

Soldiers are just very reliant on their guns since 2 of the 3 races have their main ability boosting weapon damage somehow. The biggest drawback to the Soldier is how good or bad your luck is with the RNG of equipment packs.

That isn't to say they're without issues, though. Just that they aren't really the worst. It's also kind of hard to say worst class since something like Salarian Engineer is going to be leagues ahead of the Quarian Engineer.

> Alright. The Falcon on a Turian Soldier might be a good addition to the team. Breaking 100k in a casual Gold match shouldn't be a problem no matter what class you play, the award you get for assists is so high anyway. And I'll have to agree with you on the Proximity Mine, as I am one of those people who won't sacrifice Tactical Cloak or Energy Drain for the Proximity Mine debuff.

> Yes, the 65 % damage boost is great, and so is the reload. The thing that itches me is the 10 % shield recharge. It's nice in order to spray another clip before you're back down to health again, but I don't think it's sufficient when compared to Biotic Charge or Energy Drain. Especially not when it's the Soldier's "main" ability.

> Frag Grenades deserve a nice buff, as they could be really useful. But as far as my current builds for the Soldier goes, I rarely even spend a single point on the damn things.

> Yes, they're both Soldier abilites. But Carnage is superior to Concussive Shot in every way, which puts "Non-Battlefield 3 players" at a disatvantage when playing Soldier. Persoanlly I'd never roll the Human Soldier over the Battlefield 3 one.

> Yes, and they should be reliant on their guns, after all they're soldiers and not caster classes. But my problem is that the damage/fire rate boost applies mostly to weapons which in themselves are underpowered compared to slower firing weapons (Carnifex, Widow, Claymore - You catch my drift).

> On that topic: The Quarian Engineer is actually not that bad. She's like a Human Infiltrator but with Incinerate instead of Tactical Cloak. The AoE freeze followed by Incinerate causes major damage. The only real downside is the last evolution of (I DONT REMEMBER THE NAME, IE Alliance Training) which reduces the weight of SMGs rather than "all weapons" which would make her more viable for players who haven't maxed out their respective favorite weapons. 
But thank you for your input, do appreciate it.

(LONG POST IS LONG).

Modifié par zhk3r, 02 avril 2012 - 10:54 .

[Cyonan]

zhk3r wrote...

> Alright. The Falcon on a Turian Soldier might be a good addition to the team. Breaking 100k in a casual Gold match shouldn't be a problem no matter what class you play, the award you get for assists is so high anyway. And I'll have to agree with you on the Proximity Mine, as I am one of those people who won't sacrifice Tactical Cloak or Energy Drain for the Proximity Mine debuff.

> Yes, the 65 % damage boost is great, and so is the reload. The thing that itches me is the 10 % shield recharge. It's nice in order to spray another clip before you're back down to health again, but I don't think it's sufficient when compared to Biotic Charge or Energy Drain. Especially not when it's the Soldier's "main" ability.

> Frag Grenades deserve a nice buff, as they could be really useful. But as far as my current builds for the Soldier goes, I rarely even spend a single point on the damn things.

> Yes, they're both Soldier abilites. But Carnage is superior to Concussive Shot in every way, which puts "Non-Battlefield 3 players" at a disatvantage when playing Soldier. Persoanlly I'd never roll the Human Soldier over the Battlefield 3 one.

> Yes, and they should be reliant on their guns, after all they're soldiers and not caster classes. But my problem is that the damage/fire rate boost applies mostly to weapons which in themselves are underpowered compared to slower firing weapons (Carnifex, Widow, Claymore - You catch my drift).

> On that topic: The Quarian Engineer is actually not that bad. She's like a Human Infiltrator but with Incinerate instead of Tactical Cloak. The AoE freeze followed by Incinerate causes major damage. The only real downside is the last evolution of (I DONT REMEMBER THE NAME, IE Alliance Training) which reduces the weight of SMGs rather than "all weapons" which would make her more viable for players who haven't maxed out their respective favorite weapons.
But thank you for your input, do appreciate it.

(LONG POST IS LONG).

I'll agree with the Adrenaline Rush thing. It mainly bugs me because the final evolve says 50% shield strength(Which I'm fairly certain it does that in SP), but it doesn't do anything close to that in MP.

I think the best fix they could make to the Soldier class, is to buff a lot of the more useless full auto weapons so that they're actually considerable to take on a non Turian over a slow firing weapon. That and Frag Grenades for the Human.

I don't think the QE is necessarily terrible, just rather than the SE is so far ahead of them because they're at god like status due to Decoy/Energy Drain. I suppose the same can be said of my argument for the Soldier class though in that the Turian is the best Soldier, and usually the one I'm thinking about when I make points. Human and especially Krogan I feel are worse off.

[xtorma]

If you like soldier, then p[lay it. you may get kicked from a few games here and there, but you will get to play eventually (on gold) make a good accounting of yourself and friend those you played with, sooner or later you will have enough friends who trust in your ability to never have to worry about getting kicked again.

[OhMoon]

The problem isn't that soldier isn't viable or that he can't do well in gold. The problem is that any role the soldier could possibly fill, another class does it better.

[Methanoid666]

xtorma wrote...

If you like soldier, then p[lay it. you may get kicked from a few games here and there, but you will get to play eventually (on gold) make a good accounting of yourself and friend those you played with, sooner or later you will have enough friends who trust in your ability to never have to worry about getting kicked again.

or 1 quick fix, allow the soldier to be the only class able to cary 3 weapons (i personally only use a carifex atm), the 3rd possibly being an SMG with weight reduction once they ungimp that mod perhaps.

Just a thought seeing as the soldier doesnt really have anything you could call unique over the other classes.

[xtorma]

OhMoon wrote...

The problem isn't that soldier isn't viable or that he can't do well in gold. The problem is that any role the soldier could possibly fill, another class does it better.

I wouldn't mind adding 5 minutes to a game so someone can have fun with thier favorite class. Some folks don't think this way obviously, but many do. The unfortunate reality is that if you want to play soldier in gold, you will need to do a little extra work. Make some friends who enjoy the game, and do not look at it like a grind.

Most of the time people who kick are looking for speed runs and they have a right to do it. you just need to find some folks who are more interested in the social aspect.

[OhMoon]

xtorma wrote...

OhMoon wrote...

The problem isn't that soldier isn't viable or that he can't do well in gold. The problem is that any role the soldier could possibly fill, another class does it better.

I wouldn't mind adding 5 minutes to a game so someone can have fun with thier favorite class. Some folks don't think this way obviously, but many do. The unfortunate reality is that if you want to play soldier in gold, you will need to do a little extra work. Make some friends who enjoy the game, and do not look at it like a grind.

Most of the time people who kick are looking for speed runs and they have a right to do it. you just need to find some folks who are more interested in the social aspect.

I rarely play public games, I play with friends from real life so I've never known the (I imagine) terrible feeling of getting kicked just because I want to play a krogan. I would just like to be as useful as my friends that play adept or infiltrator.