121 réponses à ce sujet

[fixit6]

I see a human VG in lobby, I leave. At least asari ones use stasis which is super useful.

All human vantards do is run around and pwn bronze in most part. In higher difficulties they always die and rage quit (awsome!). Yea sure, some vantards are good but I would say most are not and are usually a detrement to the team.

[Youmu]

jaydubs67 wrote...

But then a vanguard would solve the problem!  Warp + overload may mean lead to frustrated adepts, but warp + overload + charge + nova leads to biotic explosions and tech bursts.  Cause we can spam faster than you.   

Vanguards, the glue that holds Adept-Engineer teams together!

[Atrocity]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

prymet1me wrote...

I really only play as engineer....where do I fit in this discussion

Maybe the zapping spazzmer, always only spamming Overload and disrupting bluesplosions on purpose. AT least that's what you hear the most when some n00bs finally snap and start yelling.

But then a vanguard would solve the problem!  Warp + overload may mean lead to frustrated adepts, but warp + overload + charge + nova leads to biotic explosions and tech bursts.  Cause we can spam faster than you.   

A combination my inner sentinel approves of and loves 
It's actually funny why adepts don't get this amount of hate, because bad adepts are awfull, and unlike really bad vanguards, they continue to annoy you throughout the game, without taking out a single enemy. There's no reason for an asari adept to be shooting unpainted mobs with her pistol when a nice guy next to them has painted a target in the middle of the horde. NO REASON. 

At least even bad vanguards are in the middle of the horde doing something, even if they are seconds later dead and in the middle of the horde.


j/k, In reality I love all you biotics, with my playstyle I should marry a biotic at every game, I can't survive on my own 

[prymet1me]

jaydubs67 wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

prymet1me wrote...

I really only play as engineer....where do I fit in this discussion

Maybe the zapping spazzmer, always only spamming Overload and disrupting bluesplosions on purpose. AT least that's what you hear the most when some n00bs finally snap and start yelling.

But then a vanguard would solve the problem!  Warp + overload may mean lead to frustrated adepts, but warp + overload + charge + nova leads to biotic explosions and tech bursts.  Cause we can spam faster than you.   

I usually only hear....."that d@mn drone took my kill". He means well, just seems to have odd times to send a missile out. 

[ForkInSocket]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

It is somewhat telling of your tolerance when you don't even change calling them "vantards", even when you are adressing the good ones.

That is exactly the kind of generalization that's so unsettling.

Lighten up, Francis.

I got a chuckle out of it.

[Cyonan]

tvih wrote...
But put those same bads in control of another class, and they'll still most likely be just as useless. As a whole I don't see that many others playing Vanguard, maybe because of the bad rep, but as a whole every class has just as many turds in my experience.

Personally I do above average with basically any class, but I'm most at home with the Vanguard by far, because that's what I played in both ME2 SP and ME3 SP, and played it plenty in ME3 MP, too. I think it's my most played class in MP, though I suppose the Adept is around the same amount due to playing the Asari variety in Gold etc.

They'll probably be equally useless in terms of actually killing things, but the bad Vanguard would die more. It's just how the class is designed, "high risk" tends to mean if you aren't as skilled, you're going to be bleeding on the floor a lot more often, and you'll be doing so in a place that the rest of the team can't revive you.

Of course, it doesn't mean Vanguards as a whole are terrible, just that the bad ones are a little bit more of a liability than, say, a bad Infiltrator would be.

[The Smitchens]

Only problem I have with vanguards is it's hard to lure the enemies into one room when one starts going hog wild with nova all through the map. Next thing you know you're getting flanked on all sides.

I've never used a vanguard before, but they don't seem all that bad. A bit powerful. People keep wanting to nerf the infiltrators, but no one seems to mind the vanguards.

[Atrocity]

ForkInSocket wrote...

Has nothing to do with player rank, it has to do with disincentivizing the unstoppable Vanguard Charge+Nova+Repeat ping-ponging that discourages co-op play, and encourages stupidly 'heroic' solo map-clearing, or countless deaths at higher difficulties.

Also, nobody wants to sit through a match where they can't kill anything, because some tool is exploiting a low-skill, OP class to maximum advantage... and that's with or without scorekeeping. Everyone wants a chance to perform.

Ok, it seems we look for different things in MP.
 If the situation was so bad I could afk in the middle of the game, without dying or hindering rest of the squad, I'd be frustrated too. This hasn't happened to me yet, and since I don't really care about the kills, I'm ok with solo clearings and such if it means we win. I can understand why many people aren't though, not everyone likes to play supporting class 24/7, like I do. 

So I guess I misread your first post, since it seemed to me it was just another ranking complaint, my apologies for that. I guess I'd be pissed off too if I was forced to play adept etc all the time just to get to do something. I suck as an adept so hard. I get the theory, but just can't seem to get inside the class 

[prymet1me]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

prymet1me wrote...

I usually only hear....."that d@mn drone took my kill". He means well, just seems to have odd times to send a missile out. 

Never mess with Bob the Horrible, or whatever you call your drone. Though mine is usually content with driving a couple of grunts with its multitargeting shocks into some corner so I can burn the alive.

But I've had a fair share of Infiltrators cursing the living you-know-what out of me for my drone blocking their "perfect headshots". I always seem to be disaffectionally amused when they do that.

Engineer is my fav class by far. To stick to the topic, I have yet to even touch the Vangaurd class but when I do play with a decent one I launch a drone in the middle of the chaos they are causing to give them some back up or watch their flank. Building a Quarian engy now and will try the flamer/close quaters sentry to see how that works out. 

[Rasputin17]

bobobo878 wrote...

Highlord Heian wrote...

class warfare! Tell Fox News.

clearly the OP is jealous of our success.

Your an idiot. What do I gain from you sucking? I am looking for teamwork and credits not a bogus score at the end of the match. Looks like this post struck a little to close to home for some.

[Rasputin17]

bobobo878 wrote...

Rasputin17 wrote...
I should point out it wasn't just that he sucked. It was the fact he thought he was a beast. Trying to get the best score in the early rounds, without regards to credits, teamwork or anything. By him trying everything he could to get the best score the first five rounds he screwed over the team. Wasting all of our time, I would have even let that go but he just had to brag about his high score through the first five rounds.

Clearly the politics of envy are at play.  Why do you feel that this man must be punished for his success?

Did you even read anything I had to say? Honestly, I don't really care what you think since your idea of "success is spam killing the first three rounds, not doing any objectives, never trying to revive, dying all the time and then raging that we are not running across the map to help him. He was an idiot, who had no idea what he is doing. I will give any Vanguard a chance but if its a human vanguard on anything above bronze they almost always destroy your game. Vanguard is my SP class and I find Stasis Vanguards useful in MP. On a whole immature gamers who do understand mechanics but want high scores play the Vanguard class in droves. Thats the bottom line.

[samurai crusade]

I have two tactics as a vanguard. Guerilla attacks that I charge in nova and run for cover whole my teammates take out the weakened persuers. And crowd control medic. I see a fallen teammate. I charge in, nova the assailants away and revive. Works great on silver if someone is covering my 6 when my barriers drop.

I agree though, most vanguards don't play right.... And a low level vanguard is a medigel sponge

[ForkInSocket]

Atrocity wrote...

ForkInSocket wrote...

Has nothing to do with player rank, it has to do with disincentivizing the unstoppable Vanguard Charge+Nova+Repeat ping-ponging that discourages co-op play, and encourages stupidly 'heroic' solo map-clearing, or countless deaths at higher difficulties.

Also, nobody wants to sit through a match where they can't kill anything, because some tool is exploiting a low-skill, OP class to maximum advantage... and that's with or without scorekeeping. Everyone wants a chance to perform.

Ok, it seems we look for different things in MP.
 If the situation was so bad I could afk in the middle of the game, without dying or hindering rest of the squad, I'd be frustrated too. This hasn't happened to me yet, and since I don't really care about the kills, I'm ok with solo clearings and such if it means we win. I can understand why many people aren't though, not everyone likes to play supporting class 24/7, like I do. 

So I guess I misread your first post, since it seemed to me it was just another ranking complaint, my apologies for that. I guess I'd be pissed off too if I was forced to play adept etc all the time just to get to do something. I suck as an adept so hard. I get the theory, but just can't seem to get inside the class 

Right now, the game disproportionately awards points for kills over assists. If I solo a Banshee to 5% HP, and some joker Charges across the map and lands the final blow, he still gets some pretty decent points.

If a Soldier is softening up a tight cluster of mobs from range, and a Vanguard charges in with AoE Charge and kills them all, he will end up with many more kill points than the soldier will receive for his assists, despite doing more of the damage.

The problem is not that the support classes aren't getting enough points to satisfy them, it's that the Vanguard is getting TOO MANY, he is very satisfied, and can point to the scoreboard at the end of the match and say, "See? I'm better."  Even when technically speaking, he was the worst, lowest skilled player on the field. The system is rewarding his poor solo play. Nothing about his score is encouraging him to think strategically, or with consideration for his team.

Anybody can play Vanguard well. There is a reason it is recommended here as a confidence-building first class.

Modifié par ForkInSocket, 02 avril 2012 - 09:31 .

[Shahadem]

Lag and bad game mechanics (instakill with no reaction commands to escape) are not the fault of the player but the game creator for not creating robust gameplay which takes obvious problems into account.

[Agenda42]

Bad vanguards stick out more than bad other things. The failure mode of being a vanguard and screwing up is typically dying so far away from the team that no recovery is practical. Playing with a bad infiltrator or bad adept is nowhere near as disruptive to your gameplay.

I think that the human vanguard being the one with the charge/nova combination is a big reason why bad vanguards are so disturbingly common. If you had to play the game a while to unlock the vanguard that spams stuff to kill everything, you'd have at least a chance to learn to play a little before jumping into a stack of enemies and expecting to win.

[Rasputin17]

ForkInSocket wrote...

Atrocity wrote...

ForkInSocket wrote...

Has nothing to do with player rank, it has to do with disincentivizing the unstoppable Vanguard Charge+Nova+Repeat ping-ponging that discourages co-op play, and encourages stupidly 'heroic' solo map-clearing, or countless deaths at higher difficulties.

Also, nobody wants to sit through a match where they can't kill anything, because some tool is exploiting a low-skill, OP class to maximum advantage... and that's with or without scorekeeping. Everyone wants a chance to perform.

Ok, it seems we look for different things in MP.
 If the situation was so bad I could afk in the middle of the game, without dying or hindering rest of the squad, I'd be frustrated too. This hasn't happened to me yet, and since I don't really care about the kills, I'm ok with solo clearings and such if it means we win. I can understand why many people aren't though, not everyone likes to play supporting class 24/7, like I do. 

So I guess I misread your first post, since it seemed to me it was just another ranking complaint, my apologies for that. I guess I'd be pissed off too if I was forced to play adept etc all the time just to get to do something. I suck as an adept so hard. I get the theory, but just can't seem to get inside the class 

Right now, the game disproportionately awards points for kills over assists. If I solo a Banshee to 5% HP, and some joker Charges across the map and lands the final blow, he still gets some pretty decent points.

If a Soldier is softening up a tight cluster of mobs from range, and a Vanguard charges in with AoE Charge and kills them all, he will end up with many more kill points than the soldier will receive for his assists, despite doing more of the damage.

The problem is not that the support classes aren't getting enough points to satisfy them, it's that the Vanguard is getting TOO MANY, he is very satisfied, and can point to the scoreboard at the end of the match and say, "See? I'm better."  Even when technically speaking, he was the worst, lowest skilled player on the field. The system is rewarding his poor solo play. Nothing about his score is encouraging him to think strategically, or with consideration for his team.

Anybody can play Vanguard well. There is a reason it is recommended here as a confidence-building first class.

This man knows exactly what I am talking about. In fact he expresses it much better then me. Cheers.

[Atrocity]

ForkInSocket wrote...

Right now, the game disproportionately awards points for kills over assists. If I solo a Banshee to 5% HP, and some joker Charges across the map and lands the final blow, he still gets some pretty decent points.

If a Soldier is softening up a tight cluster of mobs from range, and a Vanguard charges in with AoE Charge and kills them all, he will end up with many more kill points than the soldier will receive for his assists, despite doing more of the damage.

The problem is not that the support classes aren't getting enough points to satisfy them, it's that the Vanguard is getting TOO MANY, he is very satisfied, and can point to the scoreboard at the end of the match and say, "See? I'm better."  Even when technically speaking, he was the worst, lowest skilled player on the field. The system is rewarding his poor solo play. Nothing about his score is encouraging him to think strategically, or with consideration for his team.

Anybody can play Vanguard well. There is a reason it is recommended here as a confidence-building first class.

OK, the point part is something I can agree with, people doing the heavy lifting should get more points for their work, as long as players get singled scores. I don't give a damn about scores personally, since the rewards are the same regardless, but as long as the singled-scores-system exists, it should be a fair one.

I wouldn't go as far as to attach 'kill-steal' trait on Vanguards though, and I still think it's a class which needs really much skill (though in all fairness, no class needs that much skill on bronze and silver in general, I admit).

[DennyHoffmann]

Another vanguard hate topic.

Wonder when the "pink zerg rushing melee krogans" and "infiltrators who don't know that their cloak is far more usefull than just a damage bonus" topics will start to came up.

Seriously guys, the vanguard players shouldn't be blamed by the actions of some bad players. Some are not even being "bad", if a vanguard leaves a match you can be almost sure that he did so because of the floating glitch, and there's not we can do about it until a fix shows up. When I play my vanguard I do wonders with other biotic players in my team, and when a play with a vanguard I help him in all the ways I can, killing enemies in the back or setting warp for biotic explosions.

Start to play WITH the vanguards, and not against them, and you will realize how fun the match can be. If you encounter a bad player, simply finish the match and leave the party, as everyone does.

Modifié par DennyHoffmann, 02 avril 2012 - 09:59 .

[ForkInSocket]

DennyHoffmann wrote...

Start to play WITH the vanguards, and not against them, and you will realize how fun the match can be. If you encounter a bad player, simply finish the match and leave the party, as everyone does.

Play with the Vanguards? Do tell, how does one do that? Should I follow him around the map for his sloppy seconds? Try to anticipate which corner of the map he will teleport to next and drop single target Warps to set up biotic explosions for him?  Perhaps find some nice shady isolated spawn camp and just leech?

What a crock of ****. The complaints are legitimate. 

[zhk3r]

 B*tch, please

[ForkInSocket]

zhk3r wrote...

 B*tch, please

This proves what?

[zhk3r]

ForkInSocket wrote...
This proves what?

Didn't care to quote the post. Read that the Vanguard is only good on Bronze - which might be true for players who don't know what they're doing. But for anyone who actually spent some time playing Vanguard, he's viable no matter what faction, map and difficulty you're playing.

[Bolo Xia]

if you cant hack it on a support character then you are the one who is bad. Support does not mean worthless... unless a bad player is playing it, of course that goes with all characters.

i just realized a week ago or so that 80% to 90% of the player base are bad players.

i learned not to count on them for anything in a mission. saves me the rage and headache that made me want to scream and strangle people.

most of the time i play as a team even though the rest of every one could care less or they dont even realize i am playing off of them.

next time follow that bad player around and warp(or other powers) right before they attack, get used to which one they attack out of a group. your team will own everything and you will get tons of points from combo's (plus revive points from saving bad player).

they can keep thinking they own face all day long while im doing a silent grin in the background caressing my easy xp and credits.

play the bad player, dont get played by one.