338 réponses à ce sujet

[GnusmasTHX]

You're assuming anyone knows how to use the Citadel beyond opening and closing the arms.

[Tleining]

SNascimento wrote...

Just a note here for those who missed: you meet Primarch Victus on Earth and he says Palaven is lost, that the only chance the Turians have is there, in that last battle of Earth.
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So yes, it's impossible to beat the reapers conventionally, the game says this time after time.

it's also completely impossible to get to Ilos
it's also completely impossible to return from a trip through the Omega4-Relay

[Sisterofshane]

SNascimento wrote...

Just a note here for those who missed: you meet Primarch Victus on Earth and he says Palaven is lost, that the only chance the Turians have is there, in that last battle of Earth.
.
So yes, it's impossible to beat the reapers conventionally, the game says this time after time.

Except that the game also tells you that Shepard has made a career upon doing what was once thought impossible, and living to tell the tale.

I mean, heck, Shepard comes back from the dead!

The only reason that the reapers cannot be defeated "conventionally" ( I mean here, without the use of a macguffin) is that Bioware has chosen not to include it in the game.

[SNascimento]

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Tleining wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

Just a note here for those who missed: you meet Primarch Victus on Earth and he says Palaven is lost, that the only chance the Turians have is there, in that last battle of Earth.
.
So yes, it's impossible to beat the reapers conventionally, the game says this time after time.

it's also completely impossible to get to Ilos
it's also completely impossible to return from a trip through the Omega4-Relay

.
This makes no sense at all... yes, Shepard did some crazy things, but there is no comparison. There just isn't.
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This is like saying: Oh, once science believed braking the speed of sound was impossible, but we did it. Therefore we can do anything. 
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edit: somethings I forget: Shepard did defeat the reapers, it just couldn't be done conventionally ie without the Crucible. 

Modifié par SNascimento, 04 avril 2012 - 05:51 .

[Tleining]

SNascimento wrote...

This makes no sense at all... yes, Shepard did some crazy things, but there is no comparison. There just isn't.
.
This is like saying: Oh, once science believed braking the speed of sound was impossible, but we did it. Therefore we can do anything. 

The Point is: Just because People in the game tell you that it can't be done, doesn't mean it's impossible.

The Reapers aren't invincible. But in ME3 the idea that they can't be defeated is never questioned so it becomes reality.
If the Allies back during the Second World War would have said: "Okay, Hitler can't be deated, let's surrender."
Then Hitler would never have been defeated. Doesn't mean that he was invincible.

[Quietness]

conventional - conforming or adhering to accepted standards, as of conduct or taste: conventional behavior.

Is it conventional to have the Krogan fighting to help the Turians on Palaven?
Is it conventional to have the Quarians and the Geth fighting together on the same side?
Is it conventional to have the Geth honestly fighting together with any race?
Is it conventional to have the Rachni fighting with any other race?
Is it conventional to have the Batarians fighting along side the Humans?

Sorry but the final army you can amass defies all convention as has been set in the universe of the game.

[SNascimento]

Tleining wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

This makes no sense at all... yes, Shepard did some crazy things, but there is no comparison. There just isn't.
.
This is like saying: Oh, once science believed braking the speed of sound was impossible, but we did it. Therefore we can do anything. 

The Point is: Just because People in the game tell you that it can't be done, doesn't mean it's impossible.

The Reapers aren't invincible. But in ME3 the idea that they can't be defeated is never questioned so it becomes reality.
If the Allies back during the Second World War would have said: "Okay, Hitler can't be deated, let's surrender."
Then Hitler would never have been defeated. Doesn't mean that he was invincible.

.
It's not about what people are saying, it is about what is happening. People say the reapers are invincble because EVERYBODY is being OBLITERATED EVERYWHERE. The Turians, the most powerful force in the galaxy, didn't stood a chance. You should replay the Palaven level to see how bad it is, and always talk to the Primarch. They were able to pull the Miracle of Palaven, which was probably the greatest victory the galaxy achieved, but it was also for nothing.
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If you want to compare it with WW2, you have to make some modification. Hitler would have today's tech, have already conquered all the world and the allies only had a couple of aircraft carriers to make a last attack. 

Modifié par SNascimento, 04 avril 2012 - 06:03 .

[AnthonyF27]

How we we know that cycle 1 was as advanced as cycle 2000? There's nothing to prove that.   We don't know if cycle 2000 is more or less advanced than any other cycle.  They could be more advanced than their predecessors by building on previous technology.

Sure we can make the assumption that the reapers are 50K years more advanced than the organics, but how do they pull that off? They hibernate for 50K years. How are they advancing? They can only advance through absorbing the organic beings at the time. So let's just say that all of the current technology is wiped out in every cycle and if every cycle advances according to the Reapers' will then they all advance the same with maybe minor differences. Then in reality the reapers are stagnant in their advances or at the very most only slightly advance in each cycle based on the small differences in each cycle.

Modifié par AnthonyF27, 04 avril 2012 - 06:10 .

[chazfu]

What about reprogramming the IFF of the relays to reverse the mass effect for Reaper ships? Instead of creating a corridor of ultra low mass, they would create a corridor of ultra high mass for the Reapers. They pop out the other end crushed to the size of a baseball, which would severely hamper their ability to move freely through the galaxy, while leaving the Alliance forces highly mobile.

[chazfu]

Are the Reapers immortal? Since they are partially organic, do they also have a lifespan like organics? Are they harvesting the organics only to make new reapers, or are they also doing it to keep themselves alive?

[ZLurps]

chazfu wrote...


Are the Reapers immortal? Since they are partially organic, do they also have a lifespan like organics? Are they harvesting the organics only to make new reapers, or are they also doing it to keep themselves alive?

Well, Sovereign said "We have no beginning, we have no end".

[OhoniX]

Destroy the enemy with overwhelming force. The Citadel Defense Force and the Arcturis Fleet destroyed Sovereign.

Not really. Sovereign was ONLY defeated because he linked with Sarren, and when Sarren was defeated it caused feedback that dropped Sovereign's shields. If he'd kept his shields up then even the Sword fleet likely couldn't have killed him.

Compare those numbers to our total EMS. We now have the full Asari and
Turian fleets. The geth and the quarians. The fleets of the mercenary
forces. What's left of the Batarians. And we know what we're fighting,
and how to take it down.

Look, we don't need to speculate, we know the answer to that one. We know that right before the end of the game, Hacket was specifically telling us that the allied forces, who were fighting a conventional battle, were on their last legs. They were only just barely able to hold their own in the hopes that the Crucible would snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. They had zero expectation of being able to actually win in the direct engagement. It was tried, and it failed.

So blow up the Sol Relay (with an asteroid strike) and take out as many Reapers as you can with the Supernova blast.

How? They would need to get an asteroid of sufficient size there (which would likely take weeks or months or even years, since it'd have to move at conventional speeds), AND before that they'd need to build the riggings that would allow it to be moved, AND they'd need to do this in-system and without tipping off the Reapers that they were doing it. Good luck with that.

The only reason that the reapers cannot be defeated "conventionally"
( I mean here, without the use of a macguffin) is that Bioware has
chosen not to include it in the game.

And they didn't include it because ti would have been stupid. Whatever your opinion may be of the ending they went with, any ending that involved them just "pressing through" and defeating the Reapers via conventional means would make the existing ending look like the collected works of Shakespear.

The Reapers aren't invincible. But in ME3 the idea that they can't be defeated is never questioned so it becomes reality.
If the Allies back during the Second World War would have said: "Okay, Hitler can't be deated, let's surrender."
Then Hitler would never have been defeated. Doesn't mean that he was invincible.

Yes, but they didn't say that, because it wasn't true. It's true that the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally, they're way too strong for that.

conventional - conforming or adhering to accepted standards, as of conduct or taste: conventional behavior.

Is it conventional to have the Krogan fighting to help the Turians on Palaven?
Is it conventional to have the Quarians and the Geth fighting together on the same side?
Is it conventional to have the Geth honestly fighting together with any race?
Is it conventional to have the Rachni fighting with any other race?
Is it conventional to have the Batarians fighting along side the Humans?

Sorry but the final army you can amass defies all convention as has been set in the universe of the game.

It's true that all those methods are, to some degree, unconventional, and yet even with all of those combined it would not be enoguh to defeat the Reapers in a straight-up battle. They needed a real game-changer of some kind. It didn't need to be the Crucible, but it needed to be something similar.

What about reprogramming the IFF of the relays to reverse the mass
effect for Reaper ships? Instead of creating a corridor of ultra low
mass, they would create a corridor of ultra high mass for the Reapers.
They pop out the other end crushed to the size of a baseball, which
would severely hamper their ability to move freely through the galaxy,
while leaving the Alliance forces highly mobile.

Sure, why not, except nobody in ME knows how to do anything like that. It would just be a different deus ex machina.

[Tleining]

SNascimento wrote...

It's not about what people are saying, it is about what is happening. People say the reapers are invincble because EVERYBODY is being OBLITERATED EVERYWHERE. The Turians, the most powerful force in the galaxy, didn't stood a chance. You should replay the Palaven level to see how bad it is, and always talk to the Primarch. They were able to pull the Miracle of Palaven, which was probably the greatest victory the galaxy achieved, but it was also for nothing.
.
If you want to compare it with WW2, you have to make some modification. Hitler would have today's tech, have already conquered all the world and the allies only had a couple of aircraft carriers to make a last attack. 

1.) Yes. Because the Writers want it that way. I could point out that Reapers can be defeated by Cains (could be mass-produced on Normandy). So with effective planning, the Defenders on the Planets could stand a Chance. To which you and the Writers could Point out, that there aren't 100.000 Reapers, but 100.000 Sovereign-class Vessels and Millions of Destroyers. Making them invincible.
I could Point out that the Turians have to fight the Reapers alone, while the Alliance Navy is studying ancient construction Plans.....
If the Writers wanted, they could have made it possible to defeat them with Conventional Warfare, it just would have required the Species to work together and NOT attack the Bulk of the Reaper Fleet above Earth.

2.) ....no, not really. Because it's not about different technological Levels. It's about giving up without trying. Like Shepard is doing at the End of the Game.

[ZLurps]

I don't think Cain is used to destroy but an AA gun?

What comes to other things, I think what happened to Alliance fleets when Reapers invaded is pretty telling.