338 réponses à ce sujet

[EricHVela]

There is a line between unconventional and ridiculous.

The Catalyst as a child and colored endings is ridiculous.

[IntoTheDarkness]

zephyr2025 wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

zephyr2025 wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

zephyr2025 wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

zephyr2025 wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Liber320 wrote...

Reapers depended heavily on the element of surpirse and either an non-unified or extremely centralized galaxy.

In this cycle, we:

- Were warned and found out about them before the attack

- Stopped them from using the Citadel and shutting down the Mass Relays

- Managed to destroy one of them and find another derelict one, using their technology to create shielding and weapons almost if not equal to theirs

- Had the entire galaxy (more or less) working together to stop them


So while it may be a long shot and would most definately result in an unfathomable amount of casualties, it could definately be done.

that analysis only works if there had been 2 CYCLES in the past, ours and the protheans.

there had been 2000. come on, reapers must have calculated what organics capabilities are under ideal circumstatnces. all conditions you lists could have happended in the past cycles, and even if it did not, reapers should have known the possibility and consequently prepared for such set of evensts.

Yeah, guys. Cmon. 2000 cycles. That's just a big number. Cmon! I have to be right. 2000! That's so much bigger than 2.

...seriously though, you're just making assumptions and I can just as easily make the opposite assumptions.

NO. you simply don't understand the probaililty, which is not the
same assumption you randomly made with Prothena being the most advanced.
btw I miscalculated. it's 20k now.

if you don't understand,
I suggest you start a protest against weather forecasts and any
betting/gambling companies for they are trcking people with lies.

So we can't win because it's unlikely? I understand what a big number 20k is. How can't I since it's the only thing your argument is based on.

Why can't we say that Reapers are getting weaker each cycle? We killed 2 reapers in ME3 without the help of the entire fleet. And each cycle is getting stronger because we get help from the previous cycle?

Yeah feel free to just assume that Reapers would always know what can happen, but they didn't seem to know about illos. Protheans surprised them. Why is it so hard to think we can beat them with all the help Protheans gave us. Because 20k is such a big number?

Yes the lotto is ridiculous odds but it doesn't mean no one wins it.

"tl; dr." <- it's what you'r implying.

I'm op. are you saying I based my whole argument of pages and numerous posts on 20k cycles alone? no.

You are now just insulting me. I'm not even gonna answer to the rest of your posts. thx. bye.

Nice rebuttal.

I did read your post and I thought all of it was irrelevent and silly. All your points just come back to the same thing, 20k is such a big number! Yes I understand 20k is a big number and its likely another cycle had more. But that's just idiotic. Why can't we assume Protheans were the most advance? because 20k is so big? You're so blinded by that number. I can't even express how sophomoric I think the OP is.

because your assumption has no supporting argument, not even something like the 20k argument i use that you criticize?

you didn't read my post did you. i will answer, AGAIN.

protheans' most advanced science was put to develop conduit.

previous races started developing a superweapon that can possibly wipe out the reapers.

prthenas simply continued the crucible to add parts to it. doesn't mean they were most advanced. plus they didn't discovere secrets of t he citadel before the invasion. the fact there couldh ave been tohers who discovered the secret thus developed the sesequent tech disproves your assumption that is based on nothing.

"there could have been" <- your entire argument.

How many races created a mass relay? I thought Protheans were the first and only. Why do we know the crucible is more advanced than a mass relay? It didn't seem like it was that hard for our cycle to build the crucible.

Edit: for your edit, why would I list assumptions I make? I don't need to make assumptions to have an argument.

................
................

wait, before you go on with 20k again tell me what's your assumption is based on. PLLLLLEEEASEE because i didn't hear any despite your multiple posts

you are just howling meaninglessly until you back up your point with stronger argument. I already said all these are speculations, i don't understand how calling my argument speculations proves any of your points. criticing my point for being an assumption doens't work until you can come up with a more logical supports for why conventional fight is plausbile, which you didn't bother to say any after posting so many to just call my speculation an assumption.

now tell me your points of why conventional fight is plausible and why protheans are the most advanced as you randomly guessed instead of repeting lol 20k! lol 20k!


let's say I based my argument on one point as you insist. but You base yours on none while you keep saying my arguments are flawed. The pot calls the kettle black.



edit: just keep quiet if you can't make any of your points but keep calling other's argument 'assumption.'

How the hell am I supposed to argue with facts alone when my point is refuting a speculation that the reapers can be defeated by conventional means? I'm using speculations to refute speculations and your point is...? 

Your tendency to object for the sake of objection is noted, not please leave me alone unless you want to make any arguable/discussible points.

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 02 avril 2012 - 09:01 .

[dreman9999]

mattynutz wrote...

The teeth and constrictions of a thresher maw are pretty conventional. If a thresher maw can shred a reaper, so can a warhead. I wasted maws with mako cannon's, grenades, and a sniper rifle. Do the math.

Your forgeting about the reapers barrier and the fact that......
1. Maws evolved to borrow through planets.
2. It was a giant monster maw that killed the reaper.

[Kitedtk]

Defeating them with the conventional weapons is far more probable than some magic lets rewrite the dna to be synthetic... oh wait... synthetics don't have DNA..... and shepards DNA was all human anyway... there was no half synthetic DNA... because shepard had implants... those don't alter your DNA... if anything alters your DNA... it would kill you...

I apologise for all the ... it's just how I write sometimes.

[Tleining]

dreman9999 wrote...


1.Not debatable...http://www.youtube.c...YyC0wAc#t=1153s

2. Do you know how much power it takes to fire a thanix cannon? It's not a thing a fighter can have. The normandy gets a boost because it has a reaper core..

1.) After the hit with the Missiles, the others were shooting Rockets (normal handheld Rocketlaunchers). It is debatable how much damage those did. But that's nitpicking and wouldn't have any basis in the Game-Lore.

2.) "The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate."

[dreman9999]

ReggarBlane wrote...

There is a line between unconventional and ridiculous.

The Catalyst as a child and colored endings is ridiculous.

And you were ignored last time you posted this for a reason. I 'll leave it up to you to guess why.

[ZLurps]

mattynutz wrote...

The teeth and constrictions of a thresher maw are pretty conventional. If a thresher maw can shred a reaper, so can a warhead. I wasted maws with mako cannon's, grenades, and a sniper rifle. Do the math.

So did I but those weren't what we saw in Tuchanka. I think it was eplained pretty thoroughly that it was like mother of all thresher maws. Reaper in question was also tiny variant.

[Scubaman8777]

Anythings possible when Commander Shepard puts his mind to it!

[Sc2mashimaro]

zephyr2025 wrote...

Yeah this game thrives on realism. I already posed a logical way to explain that we can win.

Each cycle the Reapers are getting weaker and each cycle we get stronger because we borrow from the past. There, easy.

This.

It's also implied that the Reapers are not all they've been cracked up to be and that their reputation plays a big role in why they win.

[antony1197]

The citadel is the biggest part to success they would still win in many cases, BUT without their leaders many races are paraylized with fear, and as this is happening the reapers have access to EVERY settled world every colony.

[dreman9999]

Tleining wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


1.Not debatable...http://www.youtube.c...YyC0wAc#t=1153s

2. Do you know how much power it takes to fire a thanix cannon? It's not a thing a fighter can have. The normandy gets a boost because it has a reaper core..

1.) After the hit with the Missiles, the others were shooting Rockets (normal handheld Rocketlaunchers). It is debatable how much damage those did. But that's nitpicking and wouldn't have any basis in the Game-Lore.

2.) "The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate."

1.It was still stunned first. Meaning it's barriers where down. This is how Sovergn was killed.
2. Can you point me to a video of a reaper being killed by  thanix cannons?

[ZLurps]

Purple-panther wrote...

 My biggest argument for a possiblity of defeating the reapers conventionaly is the codex entry on Carrier class ships.
For thousands of years all these other space fairing races have had space ships and not a single one thought of making Space Aircraft Carriers, not even the Turians, then the primative humans come along and revolutionize half of space warfare. It shows that abnormalities do arise down the line, maybe some of the abnormailties of this cycle give it an unseen advantage against these cocky mightier than thou space Cthulus.

Fighter swarms was what I thought might play a role before ME3 came out. Now Reapers had their Oculi fighters to engage Alliance fighters.

[Sepharih]

ZLurps wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

 I do not care how advanced the reapers are, or what the tecnical readouts of the galactic alliance ships are.  I do not care what lore can be cited to explain how it's impossible for us to defeat them conventionally...because new lore can be established and/or old lore hand waved away at any moment the writer wants to.
All I care about is what the story calls for.

..snip...

This approach resulted the endings which make no damn sense. We get to know form ME artbook and FinalHours that final confrontation with TIM was supposed to happen in Cerberus base. Hudson and Walters decided to change it to happen in Citadel because it felt more dramatic. Same goes for exploding citadel over London, story demanded it, so let's do it. Only that those pieces fall to Earth...

The reason the ending sucks is because of the Catalyst and everything around him.  TIM being in the citadel and the citadel being at earth above london are minor plot contrivances for the sake of drama.  On their own, they are minor nitpicks at best.

Zartarc wrote...

The Rebel Alliance was far from being small. They also had a sizeable fleet at the time when they fought the Death Star. But the Alliance Leaders knew that the conventional weapons of the Death Star would slaughter the fleet in no time. So they opted to use only their space fighters.

They went with one man fighters because it fit the theme of a small group of rebels going up against a seemingly unstopable war machine.  In the movie, it is handwaved by saying "the empire doesn't consider a small force to be any threat, or they'd have a tighter defense".
That's pretty silly considering that at the very least there should have been a much greater amount of fighters aboard a spacestation like that to say nothing of how inadequate their blasters must be compared to star destroyers.....but we can deal with the contrivance because it fits with the story.

Zartarc wrote... 
And to be honest: Shepard only fought destroyers himself, and not Sovereign-class Reapers. This would've been too much even for Shepard. And if you read the codex about the Reaper War, you know it's possible to defeat small groups of Reapers with the right strategy. But not nearly all of them in one place. The problem was that the Reapers stole the Citadel, which gave the Coalition no other choice then to attack them in the Sol System and reclaim the Citadel in order to use the Crucible. If this dont' happened, the Coalition maybe continiued to delay the Reapers and destroy them piecemail until the Crucible was ready. I think a victory without the Crucible would've simply been impossible.

Nothing is impossible in the realm of fiction.

[Sc2mashimaro]

Zephyr and IntotheDarkness PLEASE SNIP YOUR POSTS.

[Rhz]

I would have destroyed every mass relay and the citadell, sacraficing lots of star systems but it would also destroy a major amount of the reaper invasion fleet, then use the entire galaxy fleet to protect a single star cluster that houses every species (may evacuating as much people as possible before destroying the relays)

that would be a huge IN UR FACE for the reapers

Modifié par Rhz, 02 avril 2012 - 09:05 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

Zephyr and IntotheDarkness PLEASE SNIP YOUR POSTS.

sorry. I will edit them from this point on.

[Tleining]

dreman9999 wrote...


1.It was still stunned first. Meaning it's barriers where down. This is how Sovergn was killed.
2. Can you point me to a video of a reaper being killed by  thanix cannons?

O_O uhrm
According to the Codex: Thanix can be mounted on Fighters and Frigates.
My Point: Had the Alliance actually used Fighters that had Thanix-Cannons, we might have had a Chance to defeat the Reapers with Conventional means.
Since the Alliance never used any Form of advanced Strategy against the Reapers, we'll never know (outside of Fanfics).

[zephyr2025]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

zephyr2025  wrote

"there could have been" <- your entire argument.

How many races created a mass relay? I thought Protheans were the first and only. Why do we know the crucible is more advanced than a mass relay? It didn't seem like it was that hard for our cycle to build the crucible.

................
................

"wait, before you
go on with 20k again tell me what's your assumption is based on.
PLLLLLEEEASEE because i didn't hear any despite your multiple posts"

you are just howling meaninglessly until you back up your point with stronger argument. I already said all these are speculations, i don't understand how calling my argument speculations proves any of your points. criticing my point for being an assumption doens't work until you can come up with a more logical supports for why conventional fight is plausbile, which you didn't bother to say any after posting so many to just call my speculation an assumption.

now tell me your points of why conventional fight is plausible and why protheans are the most advanced as you randomly guessed instead of repeting lol 20k! lol 20k!


let's say I based my argument on one point as you insist. but You base yours on none while you keep saying my arguments are flawed. The pot calls the kettle black.

First of all, that quote you have is an edit you made after I read it lol. But good job trying to make it seem like I don't read your posts.

I already explained it several times why I think a conventional fight can be possible. You're the one not reading my posts. But thanks.

The post you're responding to even explains it LOL

Edit: and now you made another post with more text in it. I'm sure you'll try to use that to say I don't read what you say lol.

Modifié par zephyr2025, 02 avril 2012 - 09:05 .

[ZLurps]

Tleining wrote...


2.) "The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate."

Thanix power depends of host vessel drive core. Thanix is huge upgrade, but it's power is limited by drive core technology in use.

[Nykara]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...



I read some threads supporting the claim that the ending should have been a victory of the allied fleets defeating reapers on head to head fight. I completely disagree and I think that will be much worse conclusion to the trilogy than the current ending. I have many points to back it up, so I will keep it in a simple, short pointforms for you to follow without difficulties.

I'm basically saying reapers are not beatable by conventional means even if thanix cannon is on every organic fleets.

Many of my points are, of cousre, speculations, so if you disagree, first try to see the flow of my logic and refute the whole point rather than nitpicking one particular point.






1. Every 50,000 year the ancient machines known as reapers wipe out every space faring species.

Sounds familiar? Good.

I had an argument with a guy who mocked me that I base my assertion on a trailer. However, the above phrase can be seen from pretty much everywhere like codex, intro, trailer, and conversation with Vigil/Sovereign.

So I will go ahead and assume that the statement is true.

The reapers are the synthetic that wipes out spacefaring species every 50,00 year.


2. the reapers are older than 1 billion years at least.

Leviathan of Dis is actually identified to be reaper, at least 1 billion years old, in ME3 by Balak, the terrorist you spared in Bring Down the Sky DLC.

Since Harbinger is speculated to be the oldest of the reapers, we can conclude that he is older than 1 billion years at minimum.

This means there has been over 2000 cycles in the past, using the speculation I drew from [1]. This goes along with the number of reapers you see in the end of ME2(most reaper fleets) and ME3(majority of reaper fleets on earth). As codex suggests, a capital class reaper is made from an entire species. (The reason they look all like Sovereign clone is because BW was lazy.)

We established the fact that there has been 2,000 cycles minimum in the past and a speculation that the number of captial ship reapers are thousands(equal to the cycle), give or take.




3. the reapers harvest spacefaring species.

Humans were spared in the last cycle because according to Javik, they were cavemen back then. Javik also mentions that humans were one of the most primitive races in his cycle. (along with Asari and Salarian.)

We are also told that Yahg will survive this cycle, being very primitive and all. According to codex, Yahg is a race that is being BLOCKED from spacefaring for murdering the embassadors of the council. With the presence of the previous Shadow Broker who obvioulsy quite smart and this fact that the council is blockading the planet, we can assume that Yahg is a species that is close to spacefaring yet they will survive because reapers are not intereseted in species too primitive.





4. Humans' technological advancement.

Humans needed 30 years, since the discovery of Prothean data on Mars, to uplift themselves to be on a technological equality with the rest of organic species like Turian, Salarian, Asari.

Asari's discovery of the citadel dates back about 3 thousand years if I recall correctly.

If reapers spare Yahg, they will have 50,000 years before the next harvest. If there is ANYONE like Shadow broker, Yahg will be as advanced as current species in 30 years like humans. Even if there is noone like the Shadow broker, Yagh will catch up the current technology level of organics within 3,000~4,000 years like Asari did with the help of Prothean.

It leaves them 45,000 years of time before the next cycle.

Even if reapers come eariler, there could be species that develop on their own in regions where mass relay is not built, thus never finding out about the citadel. This leaves them free from Vanguards like Sovereign to check their technological development.

I could bring up bunch of points regarding this, but all these arguments are summarized into the fact that 50,000 years is too long time for reapers to wait since organics can advance in an insane speed.

there has been 2,000+ cycles in the past. There could have been so many possibilities; there could have been a species that developed faster than humans, there could have been a species like Yahg that barely survived reaper harvesting because they were deemed to primitive, AND there could have been a species that was both deemed too primitive by the reapers and developed as fast as humans did in the remaining 50,000 years.

If those happen, it is the reapers that risk an annahilation due to their technology being outdated.

This leads to a conclusion that for the reapers to be absolutely safe from their own annahilation, reapers should make sure that they are always at least 50,000 years ahead of any organic species so that in even the unluckest set of events(non-spacefaring species that survived the last cycle and that develops faster than humans for the rest 50,000 years without using the reaper tech thus keeping Sovereign blind from its technological development), reapers still hold the technological superiority.

the reapers should be at least 50,000 years or more advanced than any organic species.

It is said in the game that the reapers come for a fight at the apex of civilization. But we have to think before taking that statement literraly. Apex of organic evolution(you know, cavemen were not really dumber than we are in terms of organic evolution), or technological evolution? The latter doesn't even make sesne because species use the reaper tech to develop once they discover a mass relay. I believe it is the peak of organic/physical evolution than technologal apex.






5. Ilos was the top secret research base of protheans and it was studying a small version of one-way travel mass relay, AKA conduit. As evident with Javik who heard of Crucible but never heard of Ilos, we can conclude that Ilos was a more secretive project, in other word, the best Prothenas could do.

the crucible has been passed down from species to the next cycle. With this and the beacons we know that the reapers' 'annahilation' is not quite perfect. They may erase all livng things, but they can't prevent information from being passed down.

If crucible was kept secret from the reapers, why not the secret of the citadel? All organics find out that the citadel was in fact a trap once the invasion starts, which means they would have tried some way to pass down the information for the next cycle, like Vigil on Ilos.

There were not only 2 cycles in the past. There has been over 2,000+! Although Protheans were unaware of the citadel's true purpose, you can' say the same for all cycles in the past. Many species in fact had KNOWN about the cycle and some of them might even had hundreds, if not thousands, years to prepare, but subsequently been wiped out due to the reapers being infinately(or over 50,000 according to my speculation) superior.

Neither it is true that this is the first cycle to bring all organics together. Again, the prothena cycle is not the ONLY cyle in the past. It's just one of 2000 cycles. There could have been, or rather must have been cycles where organics had the perfect condition to fight reapers, like all races united wihtout disputes, cross/species technological coordination, late discovery of the citadel thus late alarm by Soveregin, possible discovery of the citadel's true purpose or even the crucible itself.

But as we know, they all failed to win against reapers. Reapers are supposed to be that superior. That is why 4 drednaughts without thanix cannon bringing down a reaper bugs me, since it just sounds wrong.

And the fact that organics can copy Sovereigns' main razer weapon contradicts the reapers' technological superiority; you can't copy a technology that is 50,000 years ahead of you, let alone 100 years.




If I'm to give my 2c about this, I say the reapers reached the technological cap with their barrirer. It is stated that reapers don't have quantum shields like mass relays do 'because' they will be unaware of the surroundings, not because they lack the technology. The contradiction I raised can be answered this way; the reapers are 50,000 years more advanced than we are, but they can still be destroyed 4:1 by drednaughts because defense technology is much more diffcult than offense technology. (can we defend against nuclear bombs?) Thus, reapers are both 50,000 years or more advance than we are, yet at the same time they are destructible.





6. conclusion.

I wrote all these to explain that reapers are most likely much more advanced than we are. This may not make them invincible, but defeating them conventionally is just ridiculs because that kind of challenges have failed in the past cycles over and over again.

2,000 cycles in the past. the reapers won all of them.

huge technological gap and the possiblity that the past races were more advanced than current cycle and even more than protheans. the repaers still won.

citadel's secret must have been known in some of the past cycles, since crucibles secret(which was loose as evident with Javik and the fact is was continuesly used agsaint reapers) was passed down. the reapers still won.

organic races must have united in the past in more ideal conditions than Shepard's cycle. the repaers still won.


It makes me think that conventional means must be NOT AN OPTION to defeat reapers. if it is, it will punch a plothole larger than the starchild, killing the franchise competely for me. Reapers don't have to be gods as they were in ME1 ME2(they were already brought down in ME3...), bur for the trilogy's plots to even make sesne they should be unbeatable by conventional means.


ps. sorry for the mess. this thread got unintentionally longer than I initially expected.

For starters they usually sneak up on the citadel which didn't happen this time thanks to Sheps team. I'm also pretty sure it's been stated that none of the previous cycles did gather an allied force/fleet to try and take them down. They were all too busy defending their own. There might have been a couple of small alliances but overall nothing like the one Shep gathered.

A Reaper can be shot. A reaper ship can be destroyed. Thus they can be defeated conventionally. Like any of us can be. They are not immortal - they are just more technologically advanced. One day someone WILL step up to the plate who has a team of brilliant scientists, soldiers and a huge fleet of vessels and beat them with smarts and skills. The Reapers are too cocky and confident - they always assume that they will win.

[hecksard]

Thanks, IntoTheDarkness, interesting read.

I have a question for you: how did the Reapers actually start the process? I mean, how many ships were there 1 billion years ago, at the start of the first cycle? Presumably just one, if every capital ship is a race? Did they reap the whole galaxy with just one ship ... maybe picking up a few races along the way and adding to their fleet in that cycle?

I mean, it took centuries for the giant fleet they built after a billion years just to reap the Protheans, and they didn't even get a ship out of them. How on earth did any of this begin?

[Aulis Vaara]

dreman9999 wrote...

Aulis Vaara wrote...

Flextt wrote...

The actual problem with conventional battles against Reaper is that they outrange our fleets.

Fleets outranging each other, in space? This is why I very much dislike the separation of lore and cutscene space battle mechanics. If this was a real space battle as described by the lore, you would see why that statement doesn't make sense.

And please don't give me the "space battles would be less cool at a distance" line. You could make long range shots way more awesome looking than a thousand shots fired at what is basically point blank range.

Grasich wrote...

Looking at it from a statistic point of view, it's impossible to win regardless of how you try.

Actually, from a statistics point of view, if we assume the chance of beating the Reapers are not zero, some cycle will eventually beat them (and giving the next cycle a chance would have actually been a very satisfying "bad" ending). If the chance is actually zero, this is a story about inevitability while constantly giving us hints that it isn't.



All in all, the story is not consistently enough written with regards to Reaper intelligence and power to give a really good estimate on if they can be defeated or not.

I still would have preferred an ending where we take them by surprise with a dark energy weapon that blows up the sun, sacrificing earth but decimating the Reapers. How it would go further from that I'm not entirely sure of, but that would've been the most believable tactic.

1.One Reaper can only be taken down by consentrated shots by mulitple ships.
Reapers can take down one allied ship with one shot.
There's no match up at all.

2.You forgetting this is a force mass enough to attack and hold ground on nearly every zone in the galxey. And when everyone joins up as an allied force....they already lost more then half their ships.

Not once have I argued that the Reapers can be defeated through conventional means, merely that it is hard to tell because they are not entirely consistently written, and because the allied forces of the galaxy don't behave the way they should according to lore.

Hence my "preferred ending" which would've gone a long way in evening up the odds a bit more.

[ZLurps]

Sepharih wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

 I do not care how advanced the reapers are, or what the tecnical readouts of the galactic alliance ships are.  I do not care what lore can be cited to explain how it's impossible for us to defeat them conventionally...because new lore can be established and/or old lore hand waved away at any moment the writer wants to.
All I care about is what the story calls for.

..snip...

This approach resulted the endings which make no damn sense. We get to know form ME artbook and FinalHours that final confrontation with TIM was supposed to happen in Cerberus base. Hudson and Walters decided to change it to happen in Citadel because it felt more dramatic. Same goes for exploding citadel over London, story demanded it, so let's do it. Only that those pieces fall to Earth...

The reason the ending sucks is because of the Catalyst and everything around him.  TIM being in the citadel and the citadel being at earth above london are minor plot contrivances for the sake of drama.  On their own, they are minor nitpicks at best.

Falling pieces causing helluva destruction on Earth, minor nitpick? Not mentioning the whole moving Citadel that causes following issue:
If Reapers were went to Citadel first and shut down the relays, and in general used the strategy they have used to this cycle, they were won. Or to put it other way around, Reapers only lost because of bad writing.

No wonder we get experiments like RGB ending, if almost, almost all kind of bs is acceptable.

[SNascimento]

Yes, it is.
.
There is no evidence whatsoever in ME3 to back up a conventional win.

[aliengmr1]

Denethar wrote...

It would be far less of a leap in logic than Space Child Deluxe doing his DNA changing spell.

excatly what I was gonna say.

I would have believed conventional over shooting a tube.