antony1197 wrote...
The citadel is the biggest part to success they would still win in many cases, BUT without their leaders many races are paraylized with fear, and as this is happening the reapers have access to EVERY settled world every colony.
Modifié par mass perfection, 02 avril 2012 - 09:15 .
zephyr2025 wrote...
First of all, that quote you have is an edit you made after I read it lol. But good job trying to make it seem like I don't read your posts.
I already explained it several times why I think a conventional fight can be possible. You're the one not reading my posts. But thanks.
The post you're responding to even explains it LOL
Edit: and now you made another post with more text in it. I'm sure you'll try to use that to say I don't read what you say lol.
Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 02 avril 2012 - 09:20 .
zephyr2025 wrote...
IntoTheDarkness wrote...
zephyr2025 wrote
"there could have been" <- your entire argument.
How many races created a mass relay? I thought Protheans were the first and only. Why do we know the crucible is more advanced than a mass relay? It didn't seem like it was that hard for our cycle to build the crucible.
................
................
"wait, before you
go on with 20k again tell me what's your assumption is based on.
PLLLLLEEEASEE because i didn't hear any despite your multiple posts"
you are just howling meaninglessly until you back up your point with stronger argument. I already said all these are speculations, i don't understand how calling my argument speculations proves any of your points. criticing my point for being an assumption doens't work until you can come up with a more logical supports for why conventional fight is plausbile, which you didn't bother to say any after posting so many to just call my speculation an assumption.
now tell me your points of why conventional fight is plausible and why protheans are the most advanced as you randomly guessed instead of repeting lol 20k! lol 20k!
let's say I based my argument on one point as you insist. but You base yours on none while you keep saying my arguments are flawed. The pot calls the kettle black.
First of all, that quote you have is an edit you made after I read it lol. But good job trying to make it seem like I don't read your posts.
I already explained it several times why I think a conventional fight can be possible. You're the one not reading my posts. But thanks.
The post you're responding to even explains it LOL
Edit: and now you made another post with more text in it. I'm sure you'll try to use that to say I don't read what you say lol.
KiroKatashi wrote...
Thresher Maw launchers would not be considered conventional would they?
IntoTheDarkness wrote...
lillitheris wrote...
N-uh. Conventional means are obviously a solution, since even in ME1 without any info on their tech and outdated weapons one was defeated. The ratio we're given with non-thanix weapons is 3:1. It's just a question of strategy and resources.
Whether previous cycles have been easier isn't known; the only thing we know is that the protheans were worse off (being just a single species and not having any warning for one) and even they managed to secret away a substantial research centre. Given that their biggest advantage of complete surprise and paralysis of the entire galaxy via Citadel->Relays was neutralized and Casper says nobody's ever made it that far would also imply that the conditions are the best they've been.
Edit: That is, it's plausible. Moreso thanDNA rewriting anyway.
Edit2: Added a little highlighting to the fact you really need to take into account.
Who's Casper?
and for your point, I believe it is plausible to assume that we were not in the most ideal position out of 2000 cycles..
Did you read what I said?Tleining wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1.It was still stunned first. Meaning it's barriers where down. This is how Sovergn was killed.
2. Can you point me to a video of a reaper being killed by thanix cannons?
O_O uhrm
According to the Codex: Thanix can be mounted on Fighters and Frigates.
My Point: Had the Alliance actually used Fighters that had Thanix-Cannons, we might have had a Chance to defeat the Reapers with Conventional means.
Since the Alliance never used any Form of advanced Strategy against the Reapers, we'll never know (outside of Fanfics).
If pretty clear in the first moment of the game...When they cut through an entire fleet...That hey can't be beat by conventional means.Aulis Vaara wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1.One Reaper can only be taken down by consentrated shots by mulitple ships.Aulis Vaara wrote...
Flextt wrote...
The actual problem with conventional battles against Reaper is that they outrange our fleets.
Fleets outranging each other, in space? This is why I very much dislike the separation of lore and cutscene space battle mechanics. If this was a real space battle as described by the lore, you would see why that statement doesn't make sense.
And please don't give me the "space battles would be less cool at a distance" line. You could make long range shots way more awesome looking than a thousand shots fired at what is basically point blank range.Grasich wrote...
Looking at it from a statistic point of view, it's impossible to win regardless of how you try.
Actually, from a statistics point of view, if we assume the chance of beating the Reapers are not zero, some cycle will eventually beat them (and giving the next cycle a chance would have actually been a very satisfying "bad" ending). If the chance is actually zero, this is a story about inevitability while constantly giving us hints that it isn't.
All in all, the story is not consistently enough written with regards to Reaper intelligence and power to give a really good estimate on if they can be defeated or not.
I still would have preferred an ending where we take them by surprise with a dark energy weapon that blows up the sun, sacrificing earth but decimating the Reapers. How it would go further from that I'm not entirely sure of, but that would've been the most believable tactic.
Reapers can take down one allied ship with one shot.
There's no match up at all.
2.You forgetting this is a force mass enough to attack and hold ground on nearly every zone in the galxey. And when everyone joins up as an allied force....they already lost more then half their ships.
Not once have I argued that the Reapers can be defeated through conventional means, merely that it is hard to tell because they are not entirely consistently written, and because the allied forces of the galaxy don't behave the way they should according to lore.
Hence my "preferred ending" which would've gone a long way in evening up the odds a bit more.
dreman9999 wrote...
Did you read what I said?
Let me rephrase the question...Have we even seen a reaper ship destoyed by thanix cannos?
I would like a confermtion of this....Also, Shepard, after the last run to the conduit, would say other wise.SovereignWillReturn wrote...
Ending cutscene space battle:
Dreadnaughts and Cruisers are shown to maneuver and DODGE Reaper fire, Reaper aiming isnt all that great.
dreman9999 wrote...
Did you read what I said?Tleining wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1.It was still stunned first. Meaning it's barriers where down. This is how Sovergn was killed.
2. Can you point me to a video of a reaper being killed by thanix cannons?
O_O uhrm
According to the Codex: Thanix can be mounted on Fighters and Frigates.
My Point: Had the Alliance actually used Fighters that had Thanix-Cannons, we might have had a Chance to defeat the Reapers with Conventional means.
Since the Alliance never used any Form of advanced Strategy against the Reapers, we'll never know (outside of Fanfics).
Let me rephrase the question...Have we even seen a reaper ship destoyed by thanix cannos?
Colour mine. Thanix are an unambiguous upgrade (against reapers).The kinetic barriers on a Reaper capital ship can shrug off the
firepower of a small fleet. Weapons specifically designed to overcome
shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers,
or the Thanix series, can bypass the barriers to some degree. The
difficulty is getting close enough to use them—the surface-mounted
weaponry on Reaper ships, similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an
effective defense against organic species' fighters.
Reaper Vulnerabilitiesdata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit
Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the
Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy (as
of 2186). This indicates that, theoretically, with the right
intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.
Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not
have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would
leave a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding
deactivated. Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.
In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can
hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three
clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction.
Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series,
show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.
The barriers of a Reaper are less formidable than those of a
capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to
disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before they
are themselves destroyed.
The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to
land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This
transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's
kinetic barriers at only partial strength.
They why do people think if we use with every ship, we would automaticly have a chance of winning....The thanix cannon is a turian weapon but even have it, they were pushed back by the reapers.Tleining wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Did you read what I said?
Let me rephrase the question...Have we even seen a reaper ship destoyed by thanix cannos?
Since the only known Thanix is on the Normandy and the Normandy never used it against the Reapers, I'll go with No!
SovereignWillReturn wrote...
Ending cutscene space battle:
Dreadnaughts and Cruisers are shown to maneuver and DODGE Reaper fire, Reaper aiming isnt all that great.
And Two Alliance cruisers and a Turian Dreadnaught mortally wounded a Reaper with the first Salvo. Within 10 seconds the Reaper was imploding. A destroyer bite the dust from orbital bombardment, which has about 20% of it's actually impact power from the firing orbital ships due to mass loss with friction+heat.
Mass Effect 3 made Reapers VERY killable, and in the final cutscene, there were A LOT more Galaxy ships than there were Reapers. It's likely they could have taken on the Reapers Ship for ship and maybe won.
Bioware retconned Sovereign's invincibility, so I say a bullet for bullet killing of Reapers is totally possible.
Modifié par Keldaurz, 02 avril 2012 - 09:34 .
Modifié par Total Biscuit, 02 avril 2012 - 09:34 .
Modifié par Nuke1967, 02 avril 2012 - 09:35 .
dreman9999 wrote...
I would like a confermtion of this....Also, Shepard, after the last run to the conduit, would say other wise.SovereignWillReturn wrote...
Ending cutscene space battle:
Dreadnaughts and Cruisers are shown to maneuver and DODGE Reaper fire, Reaper aiming isnt all that great.
Then a new problem comes up...The ship has to get close to use it and the reapers have to be disabled first....What ever ships thathave to do that have to fact swarms oflillitheris wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Did you read what I said?Tleining wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1.It was still stunned first. Meaning it's barriers where down. This is how Sovergn was killed.
2. Can you point me to a video of a reaper being killed by thanix cannons?
O_O uhrm
According to the Codex: Thanix can be mounted on Fighters and Frigates.
My Point: Had the Alliance actually used Fighters that had Thanix-Cannons, we might have had a Chance to defeat the Reapers with Conventional means.
Since the Alliance never used any Form of advanced Strategy against the Reapers, we'll never know (outside of Fanfics).
Let me rephrase the question...Have we even seen a reaper ship destoyed by thanix cannos?
Quoth the wiki:Colour mine. Thanix are an unambiguous upgrade (against reapers).The kinetic barriers on a Reaper capital ship can shrug off the
firepower of a small fleet. Weapons specifically designed to overcome
shields, such as the Javelin, GARDIAN lasers,
or the Thanix series, can bypass the barriers to some degree. The
difficulty is getting close enough to use them—the surface-mounted
weaponry on Reaper ships, similar in principle to GARDIAN, presents an
effective defense against organic species' fighters.
Reaper Vulnerabilitiesdata:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3DEdit
Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the
Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy (as
of 2186). This indicates that, theoretically, with the right
intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.
Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not
have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would
leave a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding
deactivated. Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.
In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can
hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three
clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction.
Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series,
show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.
The barriers of a Reaper are less formidable than those of a
capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to
disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before they
are themselves destroyed.
The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to
land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This
transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's
kinetic barriers at only partial strength.
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