233 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Javik says this.... http://www.youtube.c...K1id-kKw#t=763s
If you got a VI that can sense indctrinated sleeper agents  in your ranks and you later find out that you still were betrade by indoctrinated agents that were in your ranks...It's clear that the VI is not suited to detact indoctrinated Agents.

good show. beat me to it..

He says there were betrayers in their ranks.  They never said that the VI failed.  You can't even prove these agents were in a position where the VI could detect them.  The fact remains:

In every case where we have seen a Prothean VI near indoctrinated presences, it has detected them, unless those safeguards are deactivated as happened to Vendetta after it was captured by Cerberus.  It is more likely that such VIs were similarly sabotaged than them developing a never once referenced unreliability.

as to bolded.. i simply dissagree. You are stretching and dont see it. Javik had a VI built into his wrist thingy. I would assume others had them too. You say they "sabotaged or avoided them" I say they failed.

I feel my idea is the correct one. and i just used another in game piece of evidence. so far I have seen only "supposition" as you say for yours.

Javik never had a VI in his wrist.  He had a commnicator that allowed him to communicate with the VI in charge of maintaining the pods and the facility.

I have proven that these VI's can be sabotaged,  You have only shown that it is possible to avoid detection.  Until, you can show proof that these VIs actually failed, mine has more in game proof.

[dreman9999]

torudoom wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But your missing the fact that it was cleary explined...http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination ...

Also need to read more of what i wrote....It explaines more about what I'm talking about.

I read all of what you wrote, and I'm not at all convinced.

And no, it isn't explained clearly enough to be a clear, falsifiable plot device rather than space magic. We have no idea why, for instance, Shepard should have seen the Citadel scenes are a complete hallucination; the codexes only point phantom voices and ghostly images. Or at what point Shepard was indoctrinated, or how the VI indoctrination detection works and why it failed. etc. There are speculative answers to all these points, but they're necessarily speculative: the answer isn't sufficiently present in-game.

Did you even check the links in my post?

Do the line's, He's tune in on are dream. ring a bell.....That's from one of the indoctrinated scientist that were on the derlect reaper..
You know...
Fact 6. The reapers
can manipulate
dreams...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldIJFRvDUp4#t=690s

Let's not for get that the peole indoctrinated there share memories.

And when the indoctrination started...That was also made clear in my post you said you read...

fact 1. People are
indoctrinated by being near reapers and  reape rtech. 
Fact 3.Shepard is
near allot of reaper tech through out ME1 and ME2.

Fact 4. Shepard is
hit by an indoctrination field in the arrival dlc, in which he see's visions
and hears voices....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5vKMfh6gBk

This is made clear in ME1 and ME2.
In fact, all Harbinger at the end of the game has to do to finish indoctrinating Shepard is just to say near him when he is out cold.

Did you really read what I wrote?

As, about the prothean VI, It really doesn't matter why it failed to detect the indoctrinated agents...Just that it failed. The fact remain that it is flawed.

[Senario]

dreman9999 wrote...

Senario wrote...



Read my post above, easy explaination. Works within Mass Effect universe. If modern day engineers have omnitools which they can use to hack self correcting AI, then the ancient and more advanced Protheans would have had much better tech to hack with. Shut down VI, Hack it to give false reports of indoctrination. Win.

You...who is saying I'm using a baselss assumption, is trying to counter it with base less assumptions?
Your forgeting those "hackers" have to get in the base first. Do you think the base just has a door with no living guard who are not watching and checking the VI?
No matterhow you cut it. The VI  clearly does not have the capability to sense all forms of indoctrination.

It is not a baseless assumption. It is evidence based on tech found in the current cycle. An Omnitool which has been shown to be able to hack doors, hack datapads, hack computers for information, and of course hack the geth (AI Hacking/Sabotage) is something that would have likely existed in a similar form for the Protheans.

Also Any indoctrinated agents would likely come in bulk, thus making the chance of the actual guard being indoctrinated a viable possibility. You can also kill him in any kind of chaos and nobody would be the wiser. Maybe an attack by the reapers that distracts people while you dispatch the guard, hack the VI, and say he got killed in the attack. While this is a possibility and speculation. It is a lot more reliable than "The Prothean Tech was defective." Or if you were to take something from multiplayer...Indoctrination boosters to create more sleeper agents within any sanctuary. But that is a different point I am not willing to use as an argument point since it isn't established in single player.

You cannot simply argue that the Protheans made Faulty technology. If it was faulty technology why even bother to use it? You are clinging to an assertion that cannot be quantified with factual evidence when the evidence I have is the tech of the current cycle in comparison to the more advanced protheans, and the fact that ALL PROTHEAN VI's Have shown to be very accurate in sensing indoctrination. Vigil and Vendetta, and you have to remember. Vigil is in much worse a state than Vendetta with less power source and possibly damaged visual representation for the VI.

[Tiax Rules All]

Lord Aesir wrote...

1. The chaos was no at the level your thinking...Remeber, Javik said the git the best worrior to be put in cryo. That's mean they had some order to organize it. The chaos was just in know what as going on through out the empire.
2.Your forgeting that a being can be indoctrinated by just being near a reaper. Shep was cut down by Harbinger...And Harbinger had to do to finish the process of indocrination is to say nearSeps body.

Not in seconds, not in mere moments.  Indoctrination has never been shown to progess that fast.  At most we've seen it happen in hours or days, never seconds and minutes.

According to Javik, the various parts of the Empire were cut off, the right hand hadn't the faintest idea what the left was doing.  He hadn't even heard of the Ilos research or the crucible.  The empire is fractured into small groups even if some of them were well organized.  Great chaos seems appropriate to me.

its hard to prove you wrong because yous side is BASED of of incorrect info.  IT can be done in minutes. with very little control over the subject. The slow patient IT can subtly control people for months or years. thats out of the codex.  even if shep chooses incorrectly. WE ARE NOT SAYING that he will now be a husk. he will be more like TIM in the opening sequences of ME3 indoctrinated but still holding on to humanity.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 03 avril 2012 - 04:54 .

[Heimdall]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Whatever Lord.

It seems no matter how much we use the GAME to prove ourselves you will use your WORDS to "disprove it"

you say supposition, I say common sense

You have proven that there are ways to get around them.  You have yet to give any evidence that they failed.  They have succeeded every time we've seen them and there are perfectly viable explanations for why the sleeper agents managed to get in without having to invent facts like "The VI are unreliable."

[Heimdall]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

1. The chaos was no at the level your thinking...Remeber, Javik said the git the best worrior to be put in cryo. That's mean they had some order to organize it. The chaos was just in know what as going on through out the empire.
2.Your forgeting that a being can be indoctrinated by just being near a reaper. Shep was cut down by Harbinger...And Harbinger had to do to finish the process of indocrination is to say nearSeps body.

Not in seconds, not in mere moments.  Indoctrination has never been shown to progess that fast.  At most we've seen it happen in hours or days, never seconds and minutes.

According to Javik, the various parts of the Empire were cut off, the right hand hadn't the faintest idea what the left was doing.  He hadn't even heard of the Ilos research or the crucible.  The empire is fractured into small groups even if some of them were well organized.  Great chaos seems appropriate to me.

its hard to prove you wrong because yous side is BASED of of incorrect info.  IT can be done in minutes. with very little control over the subject. The slow patient IT can subtly control people for months or years. thats out of the codex.  even if shep chooses incorrectly. WE ARE NOT SAYING that he will now be a husk. he will be more like TIM in the opening sequences of ME3 indoctrinated but still holding on to humanity.

Find me where it says that it can be done in minutes, please.  There is not a single example.

[the slynx]

Tiax Rules All wrote...


your wrong. this would have been gradual all througout the series. and through mass effect 3. with the nightmares and vent boy. and other hints. and yes the pressure is most certainly turned up at the end but why is that crazy?

the codex for IT explains alot. and the galaxy does not fully understand indoctrination so why do you expect a metagaming device to do it for you. No dude is gonna pop onto the screen to tell you "this is now indoctrination, take note" the game assumes you are smart enough to see them. The codex tells you all you NEED to know. not everything there IS to know.

We're going to disagree on this point; I think you're wrong.

Indoctrination as expounded by IT explains everything in any circumstance: why it can happen slowly, or quickly, or nearly instantly, or not at all; why it can sometimes be detected by VIs, why it sometimes can't be; why it causes voices, or humming that only a few people can hear, why it causes nightmares, why it causes elaborate waking hallucinations that present the choice to accept indoctrination in metaphorical terms or not, but only to some individuals; why it usually only provides ghostly images, except in some cases; why some of its thralls appear cogent and aware, while others appear utterly deluded, etc.

In short, it does everything it needs to, plot dependent.

Most of this stuff is not really explained in-game beyond generalisations. It's fine to suggest that Citadel races don't understand everything about it, but as players, we should be able to understand it enough to see how the plot works in its details, or it's not a good narrative device.

I don't know whether BioWare intended a version of IT or not; if they did, I think they did a poor job of it - and I'd be vexed at having bought the finale without an actual finale having been included.

I'm going to work.

[dreman9999]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Javik says this.... http://www.youtube.c...K1id-kKw#t=763s
If you got a VI that can sense indctrinated sleeper agents  in your ranks and you later find out that you still were betrade by indoctrinated agents that were in your ranks...It's clear that the VI is not suited to detact indoctrinated Agents.

good show. beat me to it..

He says there were betrayers in their ranks.  They never said that the VI failed.  You can't even prove these agents were in a position where the VI could detect them.  The fact remains:

In every case where we have seen a Prothean VI near indoctrinated presences, it has detected them, unless those safeguards are deactivated as happened to Vendetta after it was captured by Cerberus.  It is more likely that such VIs were similarly sabotaged than them developing a never once referenced unreliability.

as to bolded.. i simply dissagree. You are stretching and dont see it. Javik had a VI built into his wrist thingy. I would assume others had them too. You say they "sabotaged or avoided them" I say they failed.

I feel my idea is the correct one. and i just used another in game piece of evidence. so far I have seen only "supposition" as you say for yours.

Javik never had a VI in his wrist.  He had a commnicator that allowed him to communicate with the VI in charge of maintaining the pods and the facility.

I have proven that these VI's can be sabotaged,  You have only shown that it is possible to avoid detection.  Until, you can show proof that these VIs actually failed, mine has more in game proof.

You haven't proven anything. You have to show proof they were hacked. The fact that the agents got throught mean it failed. IV are not very flexible..And if they where hacked, the reapers would have known that their stasis life pods left after the fight.

[Tiax Rules All]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Whatever Lord.

It seems no matter how much we use the GAME to prove ourselves you will use your WORDS to "disprove it"

you say supposition, I say common sense

You have proven that there are ways to get around them.  You have yet to give any evidence that they failed.  They have succeeded every time we've seen them and there are perfectly viable explanations for why the sleeper agents managed to get in without having to invent facts like "The VI are unreliable."

there is no "proof" yet
see the "proof" will be IT DLC, then you will have to accept these evident truths after the fact. Will you?

[dreman9999]

torudoom wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...


your wrong. this would have been gradual all througout the series. and through mass effect 3. with the nightmares and vent boy. and other hints. and yes the pressure is most certainly turned up at the end but why is that crazy?

the codex for IT explains alot. and the galaxy does not fully understand indoctrination so why do you expect a metagaming device to do it for you. No dude is gonna pop onto the screen to tell you "this is now indoctrination, take note" the game assumes you are smart enough to see them. The codex tells you all you NEED to know. not everything there IS to know.

We're going to disagree on this point; I think you're wrong.

Indoctrination as expounded by IT explains everything in any circumstance: why it can happen slowly, or quickly, or nearly instantly, or not at all; why it can sometimes be detected by VIs, why it sometimes can't be; why it causes voices, or humming that only a few people can hear, why it causes nightmares, why it causes elaborate waking hallucinations that present the choice to accept indoctrination in metaphorical terms or not, but only to some individuals; why it usually only provides ghostly images, except in some cases; why some of its thralls appear cogent and aware, while others appear utterly deluded, etc.

In short, it does everything it needs to, plot dependent.

Most of this stuff is not really explained in-game beyond generalisations. It's fine to suggest that Citadel races don't understand everything about it, but as players, we should be able to understand it enough to see how the plot works in its details, or it's not a good narrative device.

I don't know whether BioWare intended a version of IT or not; if they did, I think they did a poor job of it - and I'd be vexed at having bought the finale without an actual finale having been included.

I'm going to work.

Yourmissing the point that the repaers have full control over it and it's subtle. It can easilly be hidden and shown to be easilly hidden.

[dreman9999]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

1. The chaos was no at the level your thinking...Remeber, Javik said the git the best worrior to be put in cryo. That's mean they had some order to organize it. The chaos was just in know what as going on through out the empire.
2.Your forgeting that a being can be indoctrinated by just being near a reaper. Shep was cut down by Harbinger...And Harbinger had to do to finish the process of indocrination is to say nearSeps body.

Not in seconds, not in mere moments.  Indoctrination has never been shown to progess that fast.  At most we've seen it happen in hours or days, never seconds and minutes.

According to Javik, the various parts of the Empire were cut off, the right hand hadn't the faintest idea what the left was doing.  He hadn't even heard of the Ilos research or the crucible.  The empire is fractured into small groups even if some of them were well organized.  Great chaos seems appropriate to me.

its hard to prove you wrong because yous side is BASED of of incorrect info.  IT can be done in minutes. with very little control over the subject. The slow patient IT can subtly control people for months or years. thats out of the codex.  even if shep chooses incorrectly. WE ARE NOT SAYING that he will now be a husk. he will be more like TIM in the opening sequences of ME3 indoctrinated but still holding on to humanity.

Find me where it says that it can be done in minutes, please.  There is not a single example.

Shaperds indoctrination was not done in minutes, try years. Also, it can be done in minutes...It's call dragons teeth.

[Heimdall]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Javik says this.... http://www.youtube.c...K1id-kKw#t=763s
If you got a VI that can sense indctrinated sleeper agents  in your ranks and you later find out that you still were betrade by indoctrinated agents that were in your ranks...It's clear that the VI is not suited to detact indoctrinated Agents.

good show. beat me to it..

He says there were betrayers in their ranks.  They never said that the VI failed.  You can't even prove these agents were in a position where the VI could detect them.  The fact remains:

In every case where we have seen a Prothean VI near indoctrinated presences, it has detected them, unless those safeguards are deactivated as happened to Vendetta after it was captured by Cerberus.  It is more likely that such VIs were similarly sabotaged than them developing a never once referenced unreliability.

as to bolded.. i simply dissagree. You are stretching and dont see it. Javik had a VI built into his wrist thingy. I would assume others had them too. You say they "sabotaged or avoided them" I say they failed.

I feel my idea is the correct one. and i just used another in game piece of evidence. so far I have seen only "supposition" as you say for yours.

Javik never had a VI in his wrist.  He had a commnicator that allowed him to communicate with the VI in charge of maintaining the pods and the facility.

I have proven that these VI's can be sabotaged,  You have only shown that it is possible to avoid detection.  Until, you can show proof that these VIs actually failed, mine has more in game proof.

You haven't proven anything. You have to show proof they were hacked. The fact that the agents got throught mean it failed. IV are not very flexible..And if they where hacked, the reapers would have known that their stasis life pods left after the fight.

I'm not trying to prove that.  You would have to first prove there were VI to hack.  That they got through at all if hacked means the VI failed, not the detection mechanism.

Let's go back to the near instantaneous total indoctrination idea, equally necesary for IT to be true.  If that is true then the agents could have been indoctrinated within the project and commited their sabotage before anyone ad a chance to stop it.

I'm sorry, I have to sleep now.  Goodbye.

[Wowky]

Mcfly616 wrote...

I'd have my belief in what they actually planned, proved correct....

Some people are just mad that they got fooled...

Likewise.

Though I would happily put my hand up and say "yep, they got me". If anything, I consider that absolute genius.

[Tiax Rules All]

I need to get drunk and stay that way till PAX. This **** is stressing me the **** out, for real.

I dont even think IT confirmation will even make me fully satisfied now. I feel permanently scarred by the forums after the ending.

I have shifted my original view of "Bioware could have done better" to
"The fans need to do better". We are not re-acting and piecing it together like Bioware expect us to

im out.

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 03 avril 2012 - 05:10 .

[Senario]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

1. The chaos was no at the level your thinking...Remeber, Javik said the git the best worrior to be put in cryo. That's mean they had some order to organize it. The chaos was just in know what as going on through out the empire.
2.Your forgeting that a being can be indoctrinated by just being near a reaper. Shep was cut down by Harbinger...And Harbinger had to do to finish the process of indocrination is to say nearSeps body.

Not in seconds, not in mere moments.  Indoctrination has never been shown to progess that fast.  At most we've seen it happen in hours or days, never seconds and minutes.

According to Javik, the various parts of the Empire were cut off, the right hand hadn't the faintest idea what the left was doing.  He hadn't even heard of the Ilos research or the crucible.  The empire is fractured into small groups even if some of them were well organized.  Great chaos seems appropriate to me.

its hard to prove you wrong because yous side is BASED of of incorrect info.  IT can be done in minutes. with very little control over the subject. The slow patient IT can subtly control people for months or years. thats out of the codex.  even if shep chooses incorrectly. WE ARE NOT SAYING that he will now be a husk. he will be more like TIM in the opening sequences of ME3 indoctrinated but still holding on to humanity.

Find me where it says that it can be done in minutes, please.  There is not a single example.

Shaperds indoctrination was not done in minutes, try years. Also, it can be done in minutes...It's call dragons teeth.

*Cough* if it was done in minutes it means Shepard would be dead within a few weeks. Just felt like I needed to point that out. If it was done over time...well the VI on thessia would have detected it.

[Heimdall]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

1. The chaos was no at the level your thinking...Remeber, Javik said the git the best worrior to be put in cryo. That's mean they had some order to organize it. The chaos was just in know what as going on through out the empire.
2.Your forgeting that a being can be indoctrinated by just being near a reaper. Shep was cut down by Harbinger...And Harbinger had to do to finish the process of indocrination is to say nearSeps body.

Not in seconds, not in mere moments.  Indoctrination has never been shown to progess that fast.  At most we've seen it happen in hours or days, never seconds and minutes.

According to Javik, the various parts of the Empire were cut off, the right hand hadn't the faintest idea what the left was doing.  He hadn't even heard of the Ilos research or the crucible.  The empire is fractured into small groups even if some of them were well organized.  Great chaos seems appropriate to me.

its hard to prove you wrong because yous side is BASED of of incorrect info.  IT can be done in minutes. with very little control over the subject. The slow patient IT can subtly control people for months or years. thats out of the codex.  even if shep chooses incorrectly. WE ARE NOT SAYING that he will now be a husk. he will be more like TIM in the opening sequences of ME3 indoctrinated but still holding on to humanity.

Find me where it says that it can be done in minutes, please.  There is not a single example.

Shaperds indoctrination was not done in minutes, try years. Also, it can be done in minutes...It's call dragons teeth.

That is not indoctrination, it's brain has been replaced with cybernetics along with most of it's parts.  Husks are a different thing entirely.

Shepard's indoctrination had almost no symptoms whatsoever then, which makes no sense, and suddenly got drastically accelerated to a state of full blown delusion and hallucination in seconds.  Indoctrination has never been that sudden.

[dreman9999]

Lord Aesir wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Javik says this.... http://www.youtube.c...K1id-kKw#t=763s
If you got a VI that can sense indctrinated sleeper agents  in your ranks and you later find out that you still were betrade by indoctrinated agents that were in your ranks...It's clear that the VI is not suited to detact indoctrinated Agents.

good show. beat me to it..

He says there were betrayers in their ranks.  They never said that the VI failed.  You can't even prove these agents were in a position where the VI could detect them.  The fact remains:

In every case where we have seen a Prothean VI near indoctrinated presences, it has detected them, unless those safeguards are deactivated as happened to Vendetta after it was captured by Cerberus.  It is more likely that such VIs were similarly sabotaged than them developing a never once referenced unreliability.

as to bolded.. i simply dissagree. You are stretching and dont see it. Javik had a VI built into his wrist thingy. I would assume others had them too. You say they "sabotaged or avoided them" I say they failed.

I feel my idea is the correct one. and i just used another in game piece of evidence. so far I have seen only "supposition" as you say for yours.

Javik never had a VI in his wrist.  He had a commnicator that allowed him to communicate with the VI in charge of maintaining the pods and the facility.

I have proven that these VI's can be sabotaged,  You have only shown that it is possible to avoid detection.  Until, you can show proof that these VIs actually failed, mine has more in game proof.

You haven't proven anything. You have to show proof they were hacked. The fact that the agents got throught mean it failed. IV are not very flexible..And if they where hacked, the reapers would have known that their stasis life pods left after the fight.

I'm not trying to prove that.  You would have to first prove there were VI to hack.  That they got through at all if hacked means the VI failed, not the detection mechanism.

1. Are you seriously asking if there were VI's to hack?
2. Where's the prothean cricible VI's detection mechanism?

[Leozilla]

jotun04 wrote...

But then what will happen if you chose one of the "wrong" choices?

Critical mission failure?

there would be no wrong choice, you would get complete reaper win, complete alliance win, and everything in between depending on all your choices

[Bmandakilla]

Mcfly616 wrote...

if you're a kid, and your parents don't have the internet, well you shouldn't even be playing the game because you're under the age of 17

Lol age restriction systems are for n00bs. The governments need to realise that we don't care and that most people are not overcome with some crazy desire to murder people in waves.

On a relevant note, there is simply too much evidence for BioWare not to have placed the indoctrination concept there already, I mean, look at those few moments before Shepard went up the beam to the citadel, there were shrubs, trees and bushes that were reminescent of those in the crazy dreams that Shepard had, that weren't there when Shepard was sprinting downhill to the beam. Just one of the examples.

Don't forget that when you break rEAper indoctrination, a growl can be heard (Grayson in the ME novels observed this) so don't forget what happened when you first meet the kid in the vent...

[Exicuren]

I'll be incredibly happy, that is how it should continue after the hallusination, it would even force me to replay the entire trilogy over and over again to see how the story develops around my different shepards.

[AwesomeDudex64]

 I'd be a lot better off with the IT than what we have now.

[Rafe34]

Avissel wrote...

 I would take back every mean thing I said about the ending, and I would sleep with the game box under my pillow in hopes that the Bioware fairy would be pleased.


Seriously, if the actaully ran with the IT, I would be really impressed beause it would be the first "twist ending" in gaming that actaully worked.


Sadly I'm far too realistic to think anything like that will happen.

Lol.

Maybe not quite as enthusiastic as this, but yeah. Pretty much my feelings as a whole.

[Rafe34]

Lord Aesir wrote...

*snip*

You misunderstand the IT. Shepard was not fully indoctrinated when he confronted the VI on Thessia.

Modifié par Rafe34, 03 avril 2012 - 06:20 .

[Senario]

Rafe34 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

*snip*

You misunderstand the IT. Shepard was not fully indoctrinated when he confronted the VI on Thessia.

I see this as arguing with tech that has been pretty clear that it can sense indoctrination regardless of level. Remember Vigil? The "Taint of Indoctrination" Assuming The Thessia VI was somewhat similar, it could have detected Indoctrination in Shepard on Thessia. As for Indoctrination on the ground in London, Why not just kill Shepard? Why even show him the destruction ending option anyway? Why is it the only choice in LOW EMS? Simply too much problem to be worth it imo, I'd rather the scrap the ending and find a new way forward.

The only way I'll accept the Indoctrination idea is if a few paramaters are met.
1) They avoid the numerous plot holes scattered throughout the theory to provide a good ending. Again, Prothean VI's and reprecussions of indoctrination like...Turning into a mindless husk due to the long term effects of indoctrination or because of rapid indoctrination. And forever hearing voices in your head.
2) They intended it from the START, if they had just picked it up from the fans. That would mean they sold us an INCOMPLETE GAME. That is WRONG.
3) If they did intend it from the start, however unlikely, they better provide it for FREE because as a consumer. I don't like the idea that I have to pay for an ending that is supposed to be the real ending but didn't come with the game. Again, you bought an INCOMPLETE GAME.