36 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealIncarnal]

Well, being evil and bad isn't exactly something that most people appreciate or offer much incentive to be. So if you're going to be evil, you're not going to be appreciated. That's just how it goes.

[gsmithcat]

Foofad wrote...
Further, the only way to get Blood Mage is to side with the demon inside of Connor instead of killing her. Evil exclusive.

The problem is that it's not really evil exclusive.  I played a very upright and moral character who made all the "good" choices.  But I really wanted to unlock blood mage, so I sided with the demon on this one.

There was no consequence to that.  Everyone still loved my character and thought she was cat's meow.  I was at least expecting something horrible to happend in my ending, but all of that turned out fine too.  No Conner going crazy and killing everybody years later or something.

[Dark83]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

What you want to play as is a retard, not "evil".

You mean "homocidal psychopath".

[Jacks-Up]

Suron wrote...

actually just about every game that has both "good" and "evil" paths penalize you in one way or another for being "evil."

The story is about a character (yours) that becomes a grey warden and ends the blight by killing the arch-demon..and you are given quite a bit of freedom within those confines...not all hero's are good..as the slogan says. To give the option to join the archdemon? how stupid is that....you'd get NOTHING out of it short of turned into an almost mindless darkspawn minion under the archdemons thrall....or do you not pay attention to the game you're playing?

Like I said..the story is about a guy that joins the wardens...and eventually ends the blight by killing the archdemon...of course you're confined to that role..to allow you to join the archdemon makes no sense (like I said...even the evilist of evil wouldn't want to be a darkspawn thrall/ghoul..and no the archdemon wouldn't make you a special case.)

Wrong..again..about the Phylactery..you can IN FACT learn Arcane Warrior..then throw the phylactery to the side NOT destroying it and betraying the "spirit/soul/whatever" inside it...

Blood Magic..evil only choice.

Reaver...evil only choice.

like I said..you must not pay attention to the game you're playing...

but nice try...next

Ironically some people think that you can be a Blood Mage and Reaver and not be Evil.



http://social.biowar...index/354242/10

[ChickenDownUnder]

While being evil in this game isn't as rewarding as it was in NWN2, I don't think it was handled badly in DA. Some of the better game endings and quests require you to be a bastard.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Jacks-Up wrote...

Suron wrote...

actually just about every game that has both "good" and "evil" paths penalize you in one way or another for being "evil."

The story is about a character (yours) that becomes a grey warden and ends the blight by killing the arch-demon..and you are given quite a bit of freedom within those confines...not all hero's are good..as the slogan says. To give the option to join the archdemon? how stupid is that....you'd get NOTHING out of it short of turned into an almost mindless darkspawn minion under the archdemons thrall....or do you not pay attention to the game you're playing?

Like I said..the story is about a guy that joins the wardens...and eventually ends the blight by killing the archdemon...of course you're confined to that role..to allow you to join the archdemon makes no sense (like I said...even the evilist of evil wouldn't want to be a darkspawn thrall/ghoul..and no the archdemon wouldn't make you a special case.)

Wrong..again..about the Phylactery..you can IN FACT learn Arcane Warrior..then throw the phylactery to the side NOT destroying it and betraying the "spirit/soul/whatever" inside it...

Blood Magic..evil only choice.

Reaver...evil only choice.

like I said..you must not pay attention to the game you're playing...

but nice try...next

Ironically some people think that you can be a Blood Mage and Reaver and not be Evil.

http://social.biowar...index/354242/10

Define "evil". It is entirely possible to be a Blood Mage and not be evil. That said, Reaver is a bit of another ballpark.

From my personal viewpoint it's hard to unlock Blood Mage as a character, however, without being evil.

[Beechwell]

It seems to me that DA places less emphasis on playing a good/evil character, but rather on playing out the grey area in between with personal convictions and preferences. This also shows in Loghain, the main villain, who isn't purely evil, but caught up in his own preconvictions and self-importance.

I find this a good thing, since I never found pure good/evil characters to be very interestng or believable

[Chozos]

Suron wrote...

um..take the archdemon taint and control darkspawn?  What a stupid notion...the taint entering your body is exactly what kills you...the child can only survive because of (imo flawed logic) that it's because it's so young....No where would this option make any sense..

forcefully become king?  another stupid notion.  The ONLY origin this option MAY make sense for is human noble....Anora will not marry you if your male, nor alistair if you're female if you are not of noble blood (and remember the dwarf noble was stripped of all titles and heredity so no he/she wouldn't count either.)  It's made perfectly clear that no one of non-noble blood can be king.  They say "we're with the grey warden" becuase the two sides in the landsmeet become you against loghain...you're trying to get the people behind you and plant Anora or Alistair on the throne.

more "evil" choices may have been nice but let's let them make sense within the context of the game

First if you played through Wardens Keep, Avernus does make mention of learning to harness the power of the taint. It is quite plausible that in this research he could easily find a way to lift the 30 year death sentance. He is alot older than that after all. Poison entering your body can be cured, with some, your body can grow immune to them, in this case the poison is the taint.

On the part of becoming king. If you have the nobility behind you (yes it is easier if you are a noble) it is very easy to take the crown. No where is it said that a non noble cant become a king. Loghain was risen from the ranks of a peasant to nobility dont forget that. And your trying to get people behind you. The rest of the landsmeet says they are behind you not Anora or Alistair. The choice of who gets to rule falls squarely on your shoulders.

I'm sorry if both my original posts and these counter arguments dont make sense to you but for those that rather enjoy machevillian plots it makes quite a bit of sense.

[CBGB]

throttlesays wrote...
I'm disappointed in the lack of incentive to roleplay an evil person in Dragon Age. Most games incorporate a way to be evil, and to reward evil to some extent so that it isn't a complete disadvantage. Not in this game.
... There are some minor choices you can make, such as siding with the werewolves or templars, but they are ultimately inconsequential to the game as a whole.

What irritates me is that all the little things are blatantly in favor of making the good choices. 

We can disagree about whether or not siding with the werewolves is a major choice (I think it is - you go out and slaughter the Dalish), but we don't need to disagree about whether the game rewards evil behavior. It does.

When you choose how to deal with the demon possessing Connor, for example, the evil path offers you significant reward, the biggest of which is a full skill point to spend as you choose. A "good" character (like mine) has to pass on that in favor of... nothing. Zip. There's no benefit for saving the boy's soul.

The game is filled with selfish decisions that reward the player and magnanimous ones that net nothing. If you wish to convince Baizyl to fight for Lord Harrowmont, you can return his letters for nothing or blackmail him for a significant sum: his loyalty and actions don't change, but you're richer if you're evil. You can squeeze even more from Godwin. Every time a (non-companion) would-be-assassin begs for mercy, you can give it and get nothing, or kill them for their gear. Arguably the best mage robe in the game comes from showing no mercy to an old man, even once he admits his mistakes.

The game is remarkably consistent in its moral view: mercy is for suckers. My 'good' character can't abandon it, but your evil character can easily reap the rewards.

[sinosleep]

Unlocking specializations being practically the only benefit of an "evil" playthrough isn't enough, There should be more monetary rewards and such for going through with evil decisions. For instance, in the Knights of the Old Republic  series (also made by Bioware) evil was regularly rewarded with tons of money and many of the bad deeds I for one thought were hilarious.

I remember a quest where a guy had bet his wife on cards and lost. The good way to end the quest was to beat the guy who won her at cards, return her to her husband, and then stop him from letting her go since he had royally messed up by gambling her away in the first place.

If you wanted to be evil about it though you could win her back but keep her working as a dancer in the bar making you money. After collecting her earnings few times, you could then go back to the quest giver tell him you lost at the game which leads to finding out that the guy who won her owes money himself. At that point you rat him out to his bookie, who beats him down which results in you him and her back at the quest giver's place. At that point you can con the girl into giving you another bunch of money to let her go, and then kill the guy who won her for another grip of money and some items.

That right there, is a reason to play evil. You don't get anything remotely like that in Dragon Age, where making the good choice is practically always far superior to making the bad one.

p.s. To the guy that mentioned Fable, that was another game where it became quite clear early on that making evil choices was just not a good idea. If you're evil in the first portion of the game when 10 years pass and you return to where you grew up the town is in ruins and you miss out on TONS of absolutely VITAL early game money makers. Not to mention the appearance penalty from being evil that made interacting with the common folk practically impossible.

I'm not asking for anything like that, just more of an incentive than 2 quests out of nearly a hundred that result only in unlocking specializations which are then available in furthur playthroughs. That's a crap reward.

Modifié par sinosleep, 07 décembre 2009 - 06:46 .

[GCreature]

I wonder how many people playing 'good' characters leave out the stealing missions, gnawed noble tavern missons and the more nefarious ones from the Irregulars and Mages collective...

Modifié par GCreature, 07 décembre 2009 - 07:20 .