95 réponses à ce sujet

[abusing]

The biggest complaint I have with this game is that it never explains why Loghain betrayed the king in the first place. People in the game say he is a reasonable man, a brilliant general, and that he is a well loved, legendary hero who never desired power. He seemed like it when you meet him in the game at first. He doesn't seem to hate Cailan.

On the other hand, it is vaguely speculated that he may have gone mad, and no other explanation is given. Sure, he seems completely reasonable when he defends himself at the landsmeet. He has answers that are actually believable when confronted with the atrocities you have uncovered, and he seems like he really wanted to do what was best for his country.

However, Alistair also sounds completely reasonable when he reminds you of the horrible things that Loghain did. Loghain's  Quitting the field at the battle that could have ended the blight, letting the country erupt in civil war, lying and blaming the disaster on the Gray Wardens, claiming the throne for himself, attempting to end the royal bloodline of Ferelden, breaking the law by arresting templars so a blood mage can poison Arl Eamon, allying himself with Howe, who tortures people and obviously claims power by brute force... how is that what's best for the country?

I just can't figure it out. Was Loghain a well meaning leader who did what he felt was necessary, was he a conspiring, power hungry, evil genius who desired the throne, or did he simply go mad with power and lose sight of what he stood for?

Is it supposed to be up for interpretation? Did Bioware want people writing paragraphs and paragraphs in analysis of the story? Doesn't this bother everyone else who plays the game?

[kevinwastaken]

Some people are just [butt]holes.

Modifié par kevinwastaken, 03 décembre 2009 - 04:59 .

[Frozenmojo]

Arl Howe was the power monger, took over Highever and then the Arldom of Denerim too after the ailienage riots.. Loghain did what he thought just to secure the continued independence of Ferelden. Not letting his country be handed over to the Orlesians once again. Which he though was what King Cailin were doing when I called for the Orlesians to aid them against the Blight.



The thing in the story that doesn't make sense to me is Arl Eamon. Who's a royalist and close to obsessed with keeping the royal blood on the throne. Yet he's not even angry with you when you murder his only child and heir. And he's not a sping chicken anymore as Wynne would have put it. Also I can't see why he's so popular with the Bannorn when he's married to Lady Isolde, who's an Orlesian. That botheres me.

[MassEffect762]

I thought he went mad worrying about the fate of Fereldan(Orlesians) in the hands of King Cailan.(pleaded for Orlesian help against the blight)

[Original182]

Yeah there's no doubt that Loghain meant well in his own way, but he just lost sight of what he stood for.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

He went mad with fear and paranoia of Orlais. A lot of people on these boards think he was justified and will defend him to their dying breath, but it's pretty easy to see imo that he was way off his rocker and what he did was in no way necessary or best for the country.

[Nazoa]

Loghain just seemed like the stereotypical bad guy to me, who grew hungry for power, and just tried to cover it up by using guilt trips.....

Modifié par Nazoa, 03 décembre 2009 - 05:20 .

[nisallik]

I'm sure King Maric's death had something to do with the Orlesians... It is the only thing I can think of that pushed Loghain so far to do what he did. From what we know about Loghain from the books, we are missing something important after "The Calling."

[ITSSEXYTIME]

I think that Loghain knew that the fight at ostagar was unwinnable but was unable to convince Cailin otherwise. He knew that he could either sacrifice his army at Ostagar or pull back and hopefully defend Ferelden. I mean let's face it Loghain would have preferred to defeat the horde at Ostagar so Cailin could just tell the Orlesions "nvm blight gone". As a strategist, I think Loghain realized that they couldn't win Ostagar without significant losses to his own army which would leave them weak to invasion from Orleis.

[Nazoa]

nisallik wrote...

I'm sure King Maric's death had something to do with the Orlesians... It is the only thing I can think of that pushed Loghain so far to do what he did. From what we know about Loghain from the books, we are missing something important after "The Calling."

That actually would make sense, since you could tell he held Maric in the highest respects

[phordicus]

wasn't loghain originally just some peasant warrior who had a knack for battlefield strategy? i think it's as simple as saying he ventured far out of his comfort zone and thought politics was the next step after general.



or, he was really just a douchebag **** who thought he was King **** and tried to rationalize his base greed into some flowery and noble cause.



i go with option 2.

[kcp12]

It not hard to justify Loghain's actions. If Loghain had sent his troops when called, the battle still could have been lost. If the army at Ostagar was lost then Ferelden would have been in a very vulnerable state. They would need the Orlesian troops to fight dark spawn in Ferelden.



But once the blight was ended, Loghain probably expected that the Orlesian troops wouldn't just leave if they just asked nicely. So everything he ever fought for would have been undone by the king's naivete at Ostagar.

[The Capital Gaultier]

phordicus wrote...

wasn't loghain originally just some peasant warrior who had a knack for battlefield strategy? i think it's as simple as saying he ventured far out of his comfort zone and thought politics was the next step after general.

There is no real distinction between generals and politicians in Ferelden.  It's not a "modern" society.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

kcp12 wrote...

It not hard to justify Loghain's actions. If Loghain had sent his troops when called, the battle still could have been lost. If the army at Ostagar was lost then Ferelden would have been in a very vulnerable state. They would need the Orlesian troops to fight dark spawn in Ferelden. 

And how do you justify the events of Highever and the poisoning of Arl Eamon, both of which happened before Ostagar?
Loghain was scheming for the throne while the king was still alive. That's treason. He killed the king on purpose to get him out of the way, not because it was a tactical decision not to reinforce him.

It's not hard to explain Loghain's actions, because he was driven by intense fear. Justifying those actions is a completely different story.

[Original182]

kcp12 wrote...
It not hard to justify Loghain's actions. If Loghain had sent his troops when called, the battle still could have been lost. If the army at Ostagar was lost then Ferelden would have been in a very vulnerable state. They would need the Orlesian troops to fight dark spawn in Ferelden.

But once the blight was ended, Loghain probably expected that the Orlesian troops wouldn't just leave if they just asked nicely. So everything he ever fought for would have been undone by the king's naivete at Ostagar.

What the, what Loghain did was inexcusable. If there was no way to win a battle, why did Loghain proceed with the plan? Duncan, Cailan and Loghain all agreed with the plan previously, so that means the battle was winnable.
Even if it wasn't winnable, you would do whatever it takes to help the king withdraw safely, or you would fight to the death. Leaving the battlefield means you are a deserter, which is punishable by death. And Loghain was a BIG deserter.

[wepeel_]

Nazoa wrote...

nisallik wrote...

I'm sure King Maric's death had something to do with the Orlesians... It is the only thing I can think of that pushed Loghain so far to do what he did. From what we know about Loghain from the books, we are missing something important after "The Calling."

That actually would make sense, since you could tell he held Maric in the highest respects

Possibly... but he gave up his friendship with Maric and Rowan too, probably the only friends he ever had, in his own mind for the good of Ferelden. People who sacricife their hearts for grand nationalistic goals tend to end up like him I'd guess - empty.

[Thor Rand Al]

imported_beer wrote...
As per the book, Loghain saved Maric's life and was critical in winning for him the throne.  He sacrifices much for Ferelden , but he was always paranoid about the Orlesians on account to what they did to his family. His xenophonia and mistrust of anyone who wasn't Maric or Rowan (Maric's eventual queen) was bordering on the paranoia even then. In the game he just went full retard.

There are a lot of questions that the game doesn't give you answers too or maybe half a## answers.  I would seriously recommend reading the books.  I was curious about a lot of the things in the game so I'd come on here looking for answers lol then I read a post about some books n welp I had to have them...  It explains about Loghain n the Orlesians... Basically in the game when Loghain heard that the Orlesians would be coming bk to the land that he helped defend with Maric he went postal n thats where all the plotting and backstabbing came in... I don't think he has a hatred for Grey Wardens just the Orlesians n unfortunately when you hear of a Grey Warden he thinks of Orlesians... If you remember what Loghain said after you defeat him about being serious n not seeing this as a game as King Cailan seemed to think it was n your a Grey Warden.  Damn I'm surprised he didn't have Leliana's head chopped off instantly if you took her to the landsmeet with you lol.  Bad joke sorry lol

[brucemo]

Loghain is an evil man in the mould of real world evil men who accumulate power by fueling nationalism, and who spend a lot of time crushing rivals, spreading generalized terror, and building death camps.

There are a few places in the game where genuine moral ambiguity is introduced, but I'd have to agree with Alistair regarding this particular guy.  Unless you are playing pure evil there's no place in Ferelden for this guy, and the only real choice is whether to kill him yourself or let Alistair do it.

[Iseo Tiakan]

Loghain's certain that Orlais is using the Blight as a pretext for an invasion of Ferelden. If you talk to him after the Landsmeet, he'll tell you that his plan was to send a large part of the army to the border to ensure that Orlais wouldn't be able to enter. Of course, he'd never have been able to do this with Cailan still alive, since Cailan didn't see Orlais as a threat at all.

Loghain's not mad. He hates Orlais, is mistaken about their intentions, and knows Cailan doesn't share his misgivings. He also doesn't seem to care much what methods he has to use to deal with his imagined threat. I think this accounts for most or all of his actions in the game.

Modifié par Iseo Tiakan, 03 décembre 2009 - 06:57 .

[marshalleck]

Syphilis. The middle ages weren't the most hygienic, and that's right about the period of development Ferelden's at.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Iseo Tiakan wrote...
He also doesn't seem to care much what methods he has to use to deal with his imagined threat.

That's what makes him mad.

[Maria Caliban]

Nazoa wrote...

Loghain just seemed like the stereotypical bad guy to me, who grew hungry for power, and just tried to cover it up by using guilt trips.....

Pretty much.

[Lotion Soronarr]

kcp12 wrote...

It not hard to justify Loghain's actions. If Loghain had sent his troops when called, the battle still could have been lost. If the army at Ostagar was lost then Ferelden would have been in a very vulnerable state. They would need the Orlesian troops to fight dark spawn in Ferelden.

No. Teh battle would not have been lost. How come every officer in camp is confident of victory? Unless of course, you're saying that the only competent man in the whole Ferleden military, the only man we should trust is Loghain. And he never said that the battle was unwinable at the war council.

He's a traitor to Dereelden. Take him away!

Loghain's certain that Orlais is using the Blight as a pretext for an invasion of Ferelden.

Bollocks. IT's Cailian who asked for reinforcements, tehy Orlesians couldn't have planned it. Even so, the reinforcements were Grey Wardens and some Chavliers. Not a massive army big enough to conquer Ferelden.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 03 décembre 2009 - 07:14 .

[udgnim]

his hatred for Orlais is greater than his devotion to Cailan, so once Cailan dies, only his daughter has the power to keep him in check. however, Logain is named Anora's regent after Cailan's death and he abuses the position while being influenced by people like Howe and his vision of what is best for Ferelden.

Modifié par udgnim, 03 décembre 2009 - 07:13 .