Okay. This is it. A lengthy post about the one topic a lot of people are discussing lately - the romances. Or more: the lack of proper content for certain romances.
Before you continue to read: keep in mind this is just my opinion. If you don't like the romances feature, you don't need to read the whole deal and post a single line stating you don't like the romances and "the game is no dating sim". No, it's not. However, it's also not a shooter.
The most important reason why I'm writing this stuff is fairly simple: Bioware tried hard to create a lot of great characters. Sure, some of them are more interesting than others and some provoke stronger emotions than the standard character in any other show, book or game. It doesn't matter since BW pretty much made clear the MASS EFFECT series is less story driven than any other trilogy - it's based on the characters. At least I enjoy the series because of its characters. The story itself is pretty much generic. The characters and their actions make that story feeling unique.
Since BW did a quite good job in this field, we developed feelings for certain characters, we got involved with them, invested more than you would do in other games, movies or books. That's also achieved by the feature "romances". You can romance several characters like Liara, Garrus, Kaidan, Ashley, Miranda, Jacob, etc.
We can argue if all romances got executed in a good way or not - it doesn't matter. What does matter is the fact that a lot of romances got a quite bad treatment in the final part of the series.
To change that - or at least to try doing it - I'm writing this essay. I simply want to tell Bioware how to create a romance DLC (or more like TWO DLCs - for a reason) people want to buy. Even those romance DLCs won't change the game to a "dating sim" - both DLCs have just one purpose: to extend, improve and fix romances feeling incomplete, shafted or treated a bad way.
I'm doing that work because I want such DLC. And I know EA is always looking for a way to squeeze a bit more money out of a franchise. Here is your opportunity for doing so.
Aaaand check out this poll, if you like
Version 2.0 Notes
Thanks to Tropulous, a close friend and author of the VS Romance Arc Analysis (insert link here), I got some valuable input to fix some issues and extend the old idea. She gave me some nice ideas what to change and what still doesn't feel complete. So keep in mind the current version is NOT final - it may change. If you want to add more input, for general romances or a particular one, keep posting. It may find its way into the OP. Keep it realistic!
Also - stand together, stand strong! Even if you don't like a particular romance or don't want to support it, keep arguments of that kind out of this thread. BW won't give us a DLC if we're fighting each other. We need to support ourselves to get ONE voice - ONE voice that's getting heard by Bioware.
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--== Links ==--
Moved up the links from end of text.
---> The original idea can be found here.
---> Also check out the PAX Letter initiative.
---> Concerns of BobZilla 2k10 thank you.
---> Own answer regarding Kelly, Samara, Zaeed and Kasumi: Click.
---> RShara added an idea via flow chart: Click.
---> Tropulous Romance Arc Analysos: (link needs to be added)
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--== Romance DLCs ==--
I said I'd like to write an essay about two romance DLCs - and how to create them. I'd like to deliver a very short explanation.
Most romances feel incomplete in one or the other way, others got treated in a way you can consider them as dead (that's the case for the romances of Thane and Jacob). I'd like to change that.
No one is going to pay hard earned money for a single romance DLC. Lets say BW creates one DLC for each character for 5 Bucks each, you need to invest a lot of money to get the complete set.
Think of it:
ME1: Liara, Ashley, Kaidan
ME2: Garrus, Tali, Thane, Jacob, Jack, Miranda
ME3: Cortez, Traynor, Allers, (Vega)
That makes 12 (13 - including Vega) romances - or $65 for the full set. No one is going to pay that much money - they would feel scammed for a reason.
However, people are going to pay for a certain set up. I'd say it's a good idea to create two DLCs - one that's going to deal with the mostly "shafted" romances from ME2 and one that's improving the romances in ME3.
The "ME2 romance upgrade DLC" is going to deal with the romances set up in ME2: Miranda, Jacob, Jack and Thane. Garrus & Tali should be dealt with in ME3 for a reason, so I'm going to ignore them. The other four romances however got the worst treatment in the third game and need a lot of content to feel more significant and rewarding to those fans who love it.
Then there's the "ME3 romance upgrade DLC". Again, that's not the real title, it just should show you the conent with few words as possible.
That DLC should deal with ANY romances introduced and continued in ME3 with exception of the ME2 romances I named in the last paragraph. Again, there's a reason for: most of those romances are executed in a quite good way and just need some extra fluff. They don't need to be done from scratch - they need an upgrade.
I hope you'll enjoy the rest of this post - I'm going to explain both DLCs so you might get an idea what I'd like to see for a "want-have" romance DLC.
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--== "The ME2 Romance DLC" (working title) ==--
This DLC deals with the LIs Miranda, Thane, Jacob and Jack. Its goal is to improve their romances to a level the player doesn't feel betrayed in some way, so the key features are:
- Clearing up some issues.
- Adding at least one mission dedicated to the LI.
- Being able to recruit the LI for the Normandy.
- If recruited, the LI will resist in Shepard's cabin.
- The recruited LI will be a full squadmate you can use for your mission.
- The LI will give you feedback on various missions.
- The LI will give you emotional support after the loss of certain squadmates, Thessia and if you sacrifice the Quarians or Geth.
- A romance climax scene will be added before the final battle.
- The LI will appear in the flashback as third character*
- Your LI will exit the Normandy after crashlanding*
I'll take some time to explain those features (those I won't mention are self-explanatory)-
Clearing up some issues.
Before this DLC can work, some stuff of the vanilla game needs to be changed. I won't go into detail, just name some issues:
- Jacob & his new girlfriend.
She won't be his girlfriend in case fem!Shepard had Jacob as FIRST LI. In that case, the woman will be just a friend - and is not pregnant.
Fem!Shepard also can persuade Jacob to leave his girlfriend for her, however, this is only a renegade option and needs some reputation.
- Thane & his health
Thane will die - if he's not romanced or you miss to do his special mission.
If you do his mission, he'll get a "semi-cure" that extends his estimated life expectation by another 10 years. That's still no full cure but the additional time may help to find a final cure.
- Miranda & Oriana
Miranda's original story will be replaced in case she's a LI and if you accept her special mission. However, if you recruit her for the Normandy's crew, she'll insist to help at the Sanctuary mission (which leads to her fathers death). If not recruited, her father will survive - just to experience a far worse fate.
- Jack
She will only follow you if you get a new teacher for her students. In case you have Kaidan, you can send him as teacher, virtually skipping Jack's special mission. If you want to keep Kaidan or in case Kaidan is dead / not available, you can do the mission and find a new teacher.
- Kelly, Samara, Kasumi, Zaeed
Right now I have no idea what to do with them.
May add content for them later.
Currently getting input for Samara.
Adding at least one mission dedicated to the potential LI. *EDITED 4/9/2012
Each character gets a special mission that's only available to him or her. In that mission you can have the LI as squadmate and you need to finish it, before you can recruit the squadmate. Jack and Jacob can do their specific mission only AFTER you did their standard mission in the game. Miranda's special mission can be done earlier and deals with Oriana. Thane's mission has to be done before the Udina Coup happens.
Tropulous suggested to make the special mission available to those four characters, regardless if they're an active LI or not. That means four new missions to play - rewarding enough for players, who care for those characters without romancing one of them.
A mission for a particular character plays the same, regardless if they're an active LI or just a friend, however, there's a difference: most dialogues should be different and displaying the deep affection in case that character is a LI. Also there should be a special portion of the level available only to LI characters, like a different outcome, a special in-mission romance scene, stuff like that.
Then there's another difference: you can't recruit a character after his or her mission if s/he is not your LI. Shepard might ask in both cases "I want you back on the Normandy", but only if the character is your LI, s/he will accept the offer.
The special mission works a bit like a loyalty mission. It's only available if you have romanced the character and brought to you in different ways::
-> Jacob gives you the mission directly
-> Miranda gives you the mission directly
-> Jack writes you a message
-> Thane writes you a message / you can get it by talking to him.
Jacob -> A mission that helps the community of Jacob to find a save place. You can recruit Jacob after that mission, if he's your LI.
Miranda -> A mission dealing with Oriana. She won't be at the Sanctuary later in that case. This mission will be available right after the romance scene midgame. Miranda can be recruited after her mission, if she's your LI.
Jack -> either do her mission or use Kaidan as new teacher for her students. She can be recruited after that mission, if she's your LI.
Thane -> find the semi-cure to help Thane. Without that mission, he'll die after the attempt to take down Kai Leng - if he got the semi-cure, he'll live and can be recruited. Needs to be your LI.
The recruited LI will be a full squadmate you can use for your mission..
As soon as you did the special mission for your LI, you can recruit him or her for your crew. Since you can have only ONE active LI at any given time, you can have either Miranda, Jack, Thane or Jacob on board. They'll fill the same classes as they had in ME2 - Miranda & Jacob are no longer Cerberus operatives.
The LI will give you feedback on various missions.
Like the rest of the crew does. 'nuff said. Also random banter while on missions. The LI also should interact with the rest of the crew.
The LI will give you emotional support after the loss of certain squadmates, Thessia and if you sacrifice the Quarians or Geth.
One of the key features of any given romance: they shall feel like Shepard's love and partner. A good partner supports you in dark times, and therefore the romances in ME3 should do it as well. Currently, only Liara gives that kind of support - regardless if romanced or not. With this DLC, Shepard's active LI will do the support part.
The LI will appear in the flashback as third character*
AND
Your LI will exit the Normandy after crashlanding*
Only in case the endings are not changed / expanded.
If the endings get touched by BW (patch / mandatory DLC) at any given point, those points may no longer be valid.
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--== "The ME3 Romance DLC" (working title) ==--
This DLC deals with the LIs introduced and continued in ME3 (including Garrus and Tali) except the LIs from ME2, namely: Kaidan, Ashley, Garrus, Tali, Cortez, Allers and Traynor.
Key features are:
- Clearing up some issues.
- Adding at least one mission dedicated to the LI.
- LI can be summoned to the cabin at will.
- The LI can be asked to move in to Shepard's cabin permanently.
- The LI will give you feedback on various missions (more banter / more feedback)
- The LI will give you emotional support after the loss of certain squadmates, Thessia and if you sacrifice the Quarians or Geth.
- A secondary climax romance scene will be added midgame.
- Allers gets promoted to a "real affair" or "LI" - bisexual content.
- Friendly moments for each character (non-romantic context)
- Vega becomes a LI for fem!Shepard (no gay option).
- Joker may become a LI for fem!Shepard under certain circumstances.
- And Liara?
- The LI will appear in the flashback as third character*
Again, I need to explain certain points.
Clearing up some issues.
Mostly repairing and re-introducing scenes which either got lost or bugged at some point of game development, that includes banter and full dialogues on board of the Normandy and in missions as well.
Also properly checking issues with "True Love" flag to prevent locked-in romances Shepard didn't go after.
Adding at least one mission dedicated to the LI. *EDITED 4/9/2012
That's the tricky part. First of all: Cortez, Allers, Traynor and Joker are no squadmates you can pick. They should play a major part in the mission without becoming a full squadmate.
Also keep in mind those missions are ALWAYS available, regardless if that particular character is a LI or not. However, if s/he is an active LI, the mission might have different dialogues and special scenes you won't see if unromanced. They're side missions you don't have to do, but they might help greatly to understand that particular character.
-> Cortez: a mission in that tech lab he mentions at the beginning of the game.
-> Traynor: A mission on her home colony (maybe?)
-> Allers: The mobile HQ of her TV broadcaster is under attack by Reaper forces
-> Joker:
Joker's sister is dead - it got confirmed by Patrick Weekes.
Joker fans: do you have an idea what kind of mission he should have for Shepard?
Also I got the hint Joker is not interested in Shepard. Period. I have no idea how to change that,especially with EDI around. Sure, it's easy to get some dialogue in the game that may convice EDI to keep it platonic. But that doesn't solve the issue Joker doesn't want more than friendship with Shepard.
For the rest of the LIs:
-> Garrus: land on Palaven and search for his father and sister - may need some story tweaking here: if Shepard helps to evacuate Garrus' family from Palaven, an extra dialogue (romantic / non-romantic) may happen showing a thankful Garrus. If you don't do that mission before saving Palaven by bringing in Krogan reinforcements, the family will get evacuated as well (but you won't earn the points for it).
-> Tali: defend the Flotilla against advancing Reaper forces
-> Kaidan:
Scratch that one. Tropulous said that's a closed chapter of Kaidan's past and shouldn't get used again, especially since Rahna would feel like a plot device. I post Tropulous' idea right here:
Making a personal mission for ME3 Kaidan is ****** easy. He mentions in the hospital that he trains a squad of spec ops biotics, and that he doesn't know where they are but he hopes they're doing well. He has one ambient dialogue where he's asking EDI to search them, and one ambient dialogue where he's found one squad in Chicago and that he keeps looking. He mentions on Earth that his students are ready and eager to fight. There's some easily exploitable potential here: say that he's located one of his squads outside Earth, helping in a colony overtaken by the Reapers, and ask that you help evacuating them. There, that's a possible mission.
-> Ashley:
Also scratch it. I'm currently working at a plot for her, since her family is trapped on Earth and the player can't return that easily.
-> Vega: return to the planet where he lost his squad (he mentions it while doing the "dance")
Also I got some valuable input here: Vega may become a LI only after doing his special mission, so his mission comes without a romantic undertone. That changes towards the end.
-> Liara: Return to Thessia and reactivate a Prothean Barrier that's able to protect the entire planet for a while, denying Reaper reinforcements. This mission won't be available BEFORE the Fall of Thessia.
My friend told me, that's not a good idea, not at all. Why Thessia? Why removing the impact of "The Fall of Thessia" by adding some magic plot device? Think she's right.
Liara's mission should be centered around Thessia after "The Fall of Thessia" - mostly to give her a reason to fight. Liara seems to be really down and she needs something to do. Why not saving some Prothean Archives, evacuating other Asari etc?
Remember: all those missions are ONLY available if you romanced that character - so it's just ONE mission per playthrough! Each mission should have a length of at least 30 minutes.
The LI can be asked to move in to Shepard's cabin permanently. *EDITED 4/9/2012
This option becomes available right after dealing with the character's special mission. If you ask the LI, s/he will move in to Shepard's cabin permanently and provides special dialogue options there.
The LI won't stay here all day, but whenever s/he has something important / private to say, s/he can be found in the cabin. Also it's hinted by other characters your LI moved in permanently.
Also the LI still interacts with the rest of the crew.
The LI will give you feedback on various missions (more banter / more feedback)
Basically additional romantic / non-romantic banter that's currently missing, especially for Ashley and Kaidan. Squadmates with little interaction with Shepard and the crew may have additional interaction chances.
The LI will give you emotional support after the loss of certain squadmates, Thessia and if you sacrifice the Quarians or Geth.
Like in the ME2 Romance DLC.
Now not only Liara will give Shepard that kind of support but also Shepard's active LI.
A secondary climax romance scene will be added midgame. *EDITED 4/9/2012
This scene is another key scene for the LI: it may have a sexual reference. The secondary climax romance scene is ONLY available if Shepard didn't move on in ME2 / ME3. Will go through some of them:
Also keep in mind: the scene doesn't have to show another sex scene. Some characters just will have a real romantic moment.
-> Liara: right after the time capsule scene if romanced
-> Kaidan: right after rekindling the romance - he and Shepard will watch the stars on the observatory deck.
-> Ashley: right after rekindling the romance. - she and Shepard will watch the stars on the observatory deck
-> Garrus: After the Fall of Palaven
-> Tali: After the end of the Rannoch priority mission (Geth defeated OR made peace)
-> Vega / Joker / Cortez / Traynor: after the Fall of Thessia
Allers gets promoted to a "real affair" or "LI" - bisexual content.
That one is tricky. Allers is intended to be an affair - even if you have an active romance. She can become a full blown and confirmed LI - or stay an affair, if you like it that way. However, there's a risk if you have another romance!
Allers can't move in Shepard's cabin permanently. She can be summoned at will and it always leads to a night together (shown the first time, hinted any other time you call her) - however, you need to do a mission between each encounter.
Everytime you call her, there's a chance your real LI will show up. If getting caught, the LI will break up with you. You can ditch Allers too - and try to talk to your former LI. Depending on your reputation (very high!) you may be able to persuade the LI. S/he'll usually demand to get rid of Allers before returning into a relationship.
If your LI moved into your cabin already, s/he'll always interrupt Shepard's attempts to cheat on her with Allers.
If Shepard has no LI or gets caught and doesn't rekindle the romance with the LI, Allers can become an official LI. Once she's an official LI, she can move to Shepard's cabin permanently if you like.
Friendly moments for each character (non-romantic context)
The "non-romantic fluff": not every encounter has a romantic context, neither IRL nor in a fictional story. Simply add some friendly dialogues without any romantic context to each character. Those moments should be available, regardless if romanced or not, with only slightly altered lines.
Vega becomes a LI for Shepard
Simple. Vega becomes a full blown romance option for both Shepards. He can be romanced right after Udina's Coup (wait for a message).
That's another tricky part. Remember Joker said he's not into romancing his superior officer?
You can change his attitude. However, you need to persuade EDI it's better Joker is not going after her, or he might end unhappy. Also you need to talk to Joker frequently and with a sufficiently high reputation, hey might give it a try.
If you can persuade him, he'll tell you he may need some time and think about it.
If you did a good job, Joker will tell you after the Fall of Thessia he had feelings for fem!Shepard but never allowed them to become more defined.
Joker's romance is the only one without a second climax scene, however, the final climax scene should be longer and really rewarding.
For now, I can't see a way how to make Joker a LI - thanks to Tropulous. If you have any idea, post it
And Liara? *EDITED 4/9/2012
No need to single her out: Liara gets also additional content, although she might need less additional banter than more interactions like the extra mission, summoning her to the Loft at will or allow her to move in permanently.
The LI will appear in the flashback as third character*
Like in the ME2 Romance DLC: makes only sense if BW doesn't touch the endings or the player doesn't install a DLC.
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--== Special wishes of the fandom ==--
This part of my thread where I put special wishes I didn't consider in the original post.
Make usage of the Poker Table and the Bar.
That's what Tropulous suggested:
- The poker table that only Kaidan and Vega use once (and they don't even
deal you in).
Seriously, it's unused during the entirety of the game. If anything else, it would be nice if there was a "play" option for the table, with a poker minigame, or at least some cutscenes of Shepard and some crewmembers playing there. Another possibilty is adding some more dialogues by having more characters playing there. If the poker minigame doesn't make it in, you could make a running gag with all the characters that play there making excuses for not dealing you in, or something.
- The bar that only Tali uses once.
I miss being able to get drunk until the camera wavers like in ME2. This would be easy enough to implement, and you could pass out and wake up with your LI looking over you going "what the hell Shepard" or something.
- More sparring
Aside from the dialogue-fighting "dance" cutscene, you could implement some plain old sparring, either with Vega only or with a squaddie of your choice (because why the **** not). It could be a minigame, or some simplified combat interface.
My answer:
- Poker minigame
Totally support this. BW should create a real poker minigame and you can invite anyone you want, Adams, EDI, Joker, Ashley, Kaidan, ...
Should come with some extra dialogue. Maybe they even should talk about past missions. Special guests should be: Victus, Wrex/Wreav, Mordin, Eve - means, all those guys you only have for few missions on board.
- The Bar
Definitely. I love your idea. May be used for friendly talk too.
- Sparring sessions
Dunno if that works, but hey, why not? I even have an idea who could suggest it: Garrus. Remember when he talked about that in ME2? The crew of a Turian ship is preparing mentally and physically for an upcoming fight - and that means, they usually have some fighting contests on board. Why not for the Normandy?
And Tropulous' reply - I might edit this portion later.
- Poker minigame Glad that you liked it. I got this suggestion elsewhere, actually. Feel free to add it to the OP if you like the idea.
- The Bar
Well, I had though of it as something with as little relevance as getting wasted in ME2, with the LI looking over you as a bit of a joke (like Aria when you wake up next to her in Purgatory if you pass out). But if you like it, you could add it to the OP.
- Sparring sessions
In my ideal word, the purpose of this would be double: to have another type of interaction with your squaddies, and to let the player train his reflexes in close quarters combat. It would be a simplified version of the combat interface (with no weapons or heavy melee, just the standard melee attack), and you would have at it with the squaddie of your choice, punching each other until one wins, with some automatic banter and trash-talking during the fight (though this could be romance-sensitive, I guess). In an even more ideal world, the squadmates would fight in different ways, so that you could actually train for different types of enemies: Ashley could move around quickly and strike fast, Vega could move more slowly but hit like a truck, Kaidan could be more balanced between the two (he's a Sentinel, you know)... things like that. I have no idea what fighting style the alien squaddies could have, though.
Also, after having the sparring match with Vega, the suggestion could be made to each character individually, to enable them for fighting. You could talk to them individually to start the match, our you could summon them from a menu or something, I don't know.
- to add: Samara
- to add: Joker
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--== Last words ==--
Thank you for reading till this point. I know it was a quite lengthy post and it most likely won't convince BW to produce said two DLCs. I just felt the urge to write this essay - that's it. Hope you enjoyed it.
Also I'd like to thank everyone supporting this thread, regardless of what LI you may have.
This isn't a thread from an Ashleymancer but one that no longer wants to see ANY shafted romance.
Hereby I thank (in alphabetic order) following fandoms:
- Allers fandom
- Anderson fandom
- Ashley fandom
- Big Ben Sniper fandom
- Conrad fandom
- EDI fandom
- Garrus fandom
- Grunt fandom
- Hackett fandom
- Harbinger fandom
- Jack fandom
- Javik fandom
- Joker fandom
- Kaidan fandom
- Kasumi fandom
- Ken & Gabby fandom
- Legion fandom
- Liara fandom
- Miranda fandom
- Mordin fandom
- Morinth fandom
- Normandy SR1 & SR2 fandom
- Samantha fandom
- Samara fandom
- Shepard fandom
- Sovereign fandom
- Tali fandom
- Thane fandom
- Vega fandom
- Wrex fandom
- Zaeed fandom
- And all the other character fandoms I didn't mention ...
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--== History ==--
V2.0 released at 4/09/2012
- big overhaul of OP, therefore "V2.0" - thanks to Tropulous!
V1.2 released at 4/04/2012 CET
- added a new chapter "special wishes"
- updated "last words"
V1.1 released at 3/04/2012 CET
- added links to several posts in this topic
- fixed small formatting issues
- added version history
V1.0 released at 2/4/2012 CET
- initial release
- various first-day fixes
- added poll & link to PAX letter initiative
Modifié par CptData, 09 avril 2012 - 04:37 .
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