683 réponses à ce sujet

[Zardoc]

BioWare...

[lillitheris]

Persephone wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Velocithon wrote...

This is what pro-enders utterly fail to realize and refuse to acknowledge.

Pro-Enders?

What is this, a war?

Gotta call them something. <_<

How about their names? How about people? How about not being utterly condescending?

If you compile me a list of all those who like the ending, I'll be happy to include it in future messages.

…

I actually laughed a little reading the OP. It's insane that they knew the right solutions, and got them ALL wrong in the end. In my mind, this proves beyond a doubt that the changes the dynamic duo thought in their hubris they could do in the last minutes, without vetting, were the source of the disaster (along with EA/BW suits not allowing the release pushed back).

[AtlasMickey]

They didn't find a long lost Reaper off button. They built one and it required a lot of sacrifice to use it.

As far as the comments about living on the Citadel... well, I would have really liked if the Citadel survived the Synthesis ending. Maybe all the people inside were instantly turned to superior nano tech and were able to rebuild themselves in the rubble, but artistically that's quite a stretch.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 03 avril 2012 - 08:26 .

[Chrishenanigans]

TheRisenStar wrote...

Maybe these people should worry less about artistic integrity and more about plain old integrity.

You know, like not blatantly misleading people or lying about what you're going to put into a game?

Extremely well said, I hope more people consider this and reiterate it.

There's a big difference between the usual product hype ("This mission is going to be amazing!") and simplying promoting a product feature ("This game will have this mission.").

If a company can't deliver on a feature, most simply say they have to cut it or include it later (e.g., Blizzard) and move on. The ME team could have done the same.

[Dakota Strider]

marshkoala wrote...

See this is what keeps me here day after day.........

I COMPLETELY don't understand how Bioware can make ME1 & ME2 and hype ME3 and not wonder why the fanbase is mad.

I keep hoping to find that answer..........haven't yet.

What keeps me here day after day, is I had scheduled this time to be playing ME3 (expecting a longer game), or at worst playing through it a second time.   But the rotten ending, and the lame game mechanics that were used at times during the game, has left such a bad impression on me, that I cannot bring myself to play it again, unless something drastic is done to improve it.

[VibrantYacht]

AtlasMickey wrote...

They didn't find a long lost Reaper off button. They built one and it required a lot of sacrifice to use it.

As far as the comments about living on the Citadel... well, I would have really liked if the Citadel survived the Synthesis ending. Maybe all the people inside were instantly turned to superior nano tech and were able to rebuild themselves in the rubble, but artistically that's quite a stretch.

They actually kind of did. On Mars... they found it. Sure they had to build it (I fail to see how that changes anything), but it was long lost... and it was a reaper off button... opposite of what was said...

My apologies if I'm coming off as antagonistic, but your... signature is antagonist producing.

[nevar00]

THIS HURTS ME

Seriously though, this is really depressing. It just makes a horrendous ending level EVEN WORSE. Of course the "off button" quote is funny enough, but this:

“… part of what you’re trying to do is save the universe so you can live in it. That’s part of the promise, I think, for any great IP. It has to be a world worth saving… I think Mass Effect has that quality to it. If you get rid of the Reapers and win that, wouldn’t it be amazing to just live on the Citadel or just take a ship to Omega? That makes sense.”

Is also amusing, considering in 2/3 of the endings the Citadel explodes and in the other one Shepard is turned into... uh... air particles that control the Reapers, or something...

And NOBODY will be going to Omega, the station that will actually starve to death in madness and anarchy now that supply ships will not be reaching them any time soon.

[KingKhan03]

AtlasMickey wrote...

They didn't find a long lost Reaper off button. They built one and it required a lot of sacrifice to use it.

As far as the comments about living on the Citadel... well, I would have really liked if the Citadel survived the Synthesis ending. Maybe all the people inside were instantly turned to superior nano tech and were able to rebuild themselves in the rubble, but artistically that's quite a stretch.

There was no mention of the "Crucible" in ME1 and ME2 it basically came out of nowhere in ME3.

[Chaoz1994]

Dragon Age 2, now this.... Ruined both my favourite titles... Not saying it's a bad game, the multiplayer is good, and the game was good until the last 15 minutes, but the ending just ruined everything for me. I can't play either ME1 or 2 again, which I have played through several times, because I know that the end is ultimately going to lead to disappointment...

You defeat the reapers, but destroy all mass relays, leaving a millions strong alien fleet stranded forever next to earth.... 'Saved' the galaxy but pretty much screwed over everyone.

Cured the genophage? - good for you, but now all the able bodied Krogan are millions of lightyears away. Reconciled the Geth with their makers and allowed the Quarians to repopulate their homeword? Cool - but they will never go there again, and all the Geth die anyway. Etc...


(Unless that rumoured ending DLC is true, then this could be the best ending ever if you are indoctrinated. But that's just me hoping, seriously tempted not to get the next BW title, and I have all the BW titles made since Baldur's Gate.)

Modifié par Chaoz1994, 03 avril 2012 - 10:47 .

[jds1bio]

I'm just hoping that the Catalyst isn't real, that the ending was a nightmare and the real ending will arrive soon.

[TheRisenStar]

Chrishenanigans wrote...

TheRisenStar wrote...

Maybe these people should worry less about artistic integrity and more about plain old integrity.

You know, like not blatantly misleading people or lying about what you're going to put into a game?

Extremely well said, I hope more people consider this and reiterate it.

There's a big difference between the usual product hype ("This mission is going to be amazing!") and simplying promoting a product feature ("This game will have this mission.").

If a company can't deliver on a feature, most simply say they have to cut it or include it later (e.g., Blizzard) and move on. The ME team could have done the same.

But the befuddling thing about their behaviour isn't that they didn't or couldn't deliver...  It's that they appear to have never had any intention on doing so in terms of design and yet spent so much effort saying exactly the opposite.

As long as they hold up that "artistic integrity" defense saying, "this is what we imagined and intended," they're logically required to admit they've misled, distorted, and lied when quotes like these appear.  It's exactly opposite of the "we ran out of time/money/etc. and we had to do something with it!" line you might get in similar situations (looking at Kerberos and the Sword of the Stars 2 fiasco).

The "artistic integrity" defense is damning to BioWare's reputation.  It's basically saying "This is our vision and all of our obviously contrary statments prior to release (even as little as a week before) are were done with the knowledge of how different the result would be compared to what we promised."

I worked in the soul-sapping world of advertising (and to an extend, still do), so I understand marketing vaugeries, spin, and hype....

 But this?  This just baffles me.

[Goddamnit]

i need a drink..

[daisekihan]

These quotes should be presented at PAX East. Seriously, this is the thing we've been looking for. Especially the thing about the Citadel and Omega. There is no way to talk your way out of that.

[Dakota Strider]

@TheRisenStar

Agree 100%. If Bioware had A)claimed that they had wanted to do what the fans wanted, but due to budget or time, they had to change their direction, people would at least have to respect that. But when they first B)claim they are going to do what their fans want, and then turn around and do the opposite, and claim it is because of artistic license, it lacks all credibility.

In the case of A), their fans would be disappointed, but at least know that Bioware still knows what their customers want, and can hold faith they will get it in the future.

In the case of the Bioware fans are left with the feeling that Bioware only says what the fanbase wants to hear, to sell product, but refuses to deliver on their promises, because it is easier not to do so.

[lordnyx1]

daisekihan wrote...

These quotes should be presented at PAX East. Seriously, this is the thing we've been looking for. Especially the thing about the Citadel and Omega. There is no way to talk your way out of that.

Development of product often leads to the cutting of less than realized features of that product as the deadline looms.
You should just deal with it..

Seemed easy enough I'm afraid.

[Shadow-Novus]

Goddamnit wrote...

i need a drink..

Save me a seat on the bar. It's gonna be a long night.
*headdesks*

[Almostfaceman]

I don't know how anyone could wonder why so many feel like they've been sold something they didn't get.

[Almostfaceman]

TheRisenStar wrote...

But the befuddling thing about their behaviour isn't that they didn't or couldn't deliver...  It's that they appear to have never had any intention on doing so in terms of design and yet spent so much effort saying exactly the opposite.

As long as they hold up that "artistic integrity" defense saying, "this is what we imagined and intended," they're logically required to admit they've misled, distorted, and lied when quotes like these appear.  It's exactly opposite of the "we ran out of time/money/etc. and we had to do something with it!" line you might get in similar situations (looking at Kerberos and the Sword of the Stars 2 fiasco).

This. So much... this.

[my Aim is True]

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Reading this stuff just hurts.

[Torxen]

...and then I came into this thread and felt slightly worse about the endings. Didn't think that was possible.

[Ice Cold J]

I know I'm overstating the obvious here, but obviously something happened along the way where someone with a lot of clout derailed the original scope of the game for some reason.
I wish that person had just minded their own damn business.

[nullobject]

Ice Cold J wrote...

I know I'm overstating the obvious here, but obviously something happened along the way where someone with a lot of clout derailed the original scope of the game for some reason.
I wish that person had just minded their own damn business.

Why must everyone always suspect outside interference? It's not uncommon for developers to make big promises then not have the time to implement their big ideas.

It is less common for developers to keep talking nonsense even when they should know better - e.g. the "It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C" ending comment made in January 2012, when it should have been clear to the person making the comment that that was exactly what they did have for an ending.

[CJMissen]

Dear god... all these things, all this proof... and Bioware doesn't know why we are scrambling for anything to hold onto and tearing to shreads everything they say?

I think we've lost trust in everything they say for these reasons - pre release statements vs release product and the inconsistency with it all. and then all these carefully constructed statements released in attempt to placate and smooth things over and they wonder why the disgruntled mob is skeptical? it just doesn't make sense to me.

... is someone going to just come out with all this and put them on the spot come PAX?

[Wowlock]

Ahh...those empty words...how hollow they sound now.

How a year can change things this much...it is mind boggling.