229 réponses à ce sujet

[Arik7]

The title of this thread is targeting people based on their sexual orientation and some posters propagate eugenics and other N@zi ideals. How is this thread is still open? The mods should be doing a better job.

Modifié par Arik7, 03 avril 2012 - 03:11 .

[humes spork]

The best way to avoid male homosexual LI's is to try to not stick your peener in other dudes. It may just be me, but I've never had a problem with that no matter how many dudes are around me that would be receptive to the idea of my peener inside them.

I mean, it's not exactly something that can happen by accident. "Whoops, I tripped and my peener fell inside another dude". At some point, somewhere and sometime there's generally intent for your peener to end up inside another dude, if it happens.

...and if it does, that's okay. So you like your peener inside dudes. Who gives a crap? It doesn't change who you are.

Modifié par humes spork, 03 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Leozilla]

Agamo45 wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm gay and I don't disagree with the op, but I'm not sure of this thread's purpose. Is Bioware thinking of adding love interests? Anyway, that aside, Agamo's posts in here are blatantly offensive. Can we get a mod to step in?

Awww, you're offended? Well, I suppose you can complain to the ACLU. Maybe they'll send me a letter asking me to pleeease be more considerate.

your a jackass, what the hell does it mean to you if people are gay or bi, aganist your misogynistic religion?

[pomrink]

Agamo45 wrote...

greggm2000 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

VerdantSF wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Yes, it appears to be a naturally occuring disorder. As I said, genetic therapy should eliminate it.

And what are your feelings regarding all the human/alien action going on?

I see it as bestiality. Next.

If you take "bestiality" to have so wide a definition as to include sentient aliens, then ANY sex is bestiality, even that between a human man and human woman.. in which case, the word is almost meaningless.

No, bestiality has a very specific meaning. Having sexual intercourse with any creature that is not a member of the human race, is bestiality. It's actually really simple.

You got your definition wrong, unless you consider hypothetical sentient species lower animals. But the mass effect aliens have intelligence identical to human (as in falls completely within human variance for intelligence) so that word doesn't apply.
Use xenophile.

[shoshbear]

kingofkings276 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Ohh so now we're bringing assumptions as proofs? Great! I assume Garrus is bisexual! Also, human males look more like turian females than human females do, so it's safe to assume Garrus who's a Turian would be actually more attracted to human male than human female. Gotta love the assumptions!

You're contradicting yourself lmao.

All the proof I need is that they never made Garrus romancable by male shepard. Bioware made the right decision and realized that not everyone is a bisexual. 

Also that's not contradicting myself. People say homosexuality is in our genetics, techinically you shouldn't be able to "become gay". We don't know if we could be attracted to aliens or not because we don't have any aliens to test this out on.

They were going to make Miranda a romanceable option for FemSheps but then scrapped it at the last second (I don't know why for sure but I would not be surprised if it had something to do with the Fox news BS with Liara in the first ME). Don't I have the right to be upset that they re-wrote the cannon of a character that I had interest in romancing with my FemShep simply to cater to whoever would not be comfortable with it? That they did this regardless of the fact that it would have, for all intents and purpose,s been a situation like with Liara or Kaiden (now) where they can be considered Gay or Straight depending on YOUR Sheppard's cannon?

I think you might be under the impression that if you make a character like Jacob or Garrus a possible LI for a same sex Sheppard that it would completely alter their personality. That all of a sudden that character would not be that character anymore. Yet examples like Kaiden and Liara, etc. show that this is not the case. I honestly believe that Bioware wrote the character's personalities independent what sex (or sexes or species) they were attracted to and then doled out the hetero or ****** or bi card as the afterthought. That can also be tied into the whole Miranda thing where they simply took out the option of being romanceable by FemShep. Her personality didn't change, just her genitalia preference. 

[Valraine]

As a homosexual, I do not really care for additional homosexual LIs; Liara is all I need. Though I have to admit that Specialist Traynor was quite fun, but not nearly as attractive as Liara.

[pomrink]

Arik7 wrote...

The title of this thread is targeting people based on their sexual orientation and some posters propagate eugenics and other N@zi ideals. How is this thread is still open? The mods should be doing a better job.

Hey, don't call people who support eugenics national socialists. That's like saying people who enjoy sugar are just like hitler.

Modifié par pomrink, 03 avril 2012 - 03:14 .

[TheLostGenius]

xsdob wrote...

You don't seem to realize how overblown and inappropriate your post sounds. They added about 1 gay character for each sex, traynor and cortez.

The way you say it makes it sound like the normandy was turned into the SSV Purple ****** and that wrex tried to give male shep a reach around.

The big quad flopping scene made me puke!

[ericjdev]

Admiral Hackett should be a gay LI, and Din Korlack, and a Vorcha, I could totally get into that.

[Kanon777]

IsaacShep wrote...

kingofkings276 wrote...

All the proof I need is that they never made Garrus romancable by male shepard. Bioware made the right decision and realized that not everyone is a bisexual.

Then all the proof I need is that he wasn't romanceable by FemShep in ME1. Sorry, you can't apply your won logic only when it's convinient to you. Seriously dude, you're not original. Every month there's some guy whining how his precious bro bro Garrus can't be "teh bi" because "OMG!". And they always mention Garrus, which is the worst example possible considering he along with Tali weren't available for romance in ME1. Been there done that. We've already saw this thread many times. Think of something new.

This.
Personaly, I dont care if you dont want characters changing sexuality, but dont bring tali or garrus to this argument. Imo what i hate about the bisexual options is how generic they can turn the romance into.

Relations between mm/ww/mw have many things in common and many things that are very diferent between them. Making everyone bisexual can make both sides lose their flavor for the sake a generic middle-term (i noticed that alot in Dragon Age 2)

[Agamo45]

Leozilla wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

Tietj wrote...

I'm gay and I don't disagree with the op, but I'm not sure of this thread's purpose. Is Bioware thinking of adding love interests? Anyway, that aside, Agamo's posts in here are blatantly offensive. Can we get a mod to step in?

Awww, you're offended? Well, I suppose you can complain to the ACLU. Maybe they'll send me a letter asking me to pleeease be more considerate.

your a jackass, what the hell does it mean to you if people are gay or bi, aganist your misogynistic religion?

Can't you say anything besides the mindless drivel that you were taught in the public school system? My apologies, I understand that asking you to actually think is beyond your mental capabilities.

[Metalstorm980]

Lets see if I can clarify OP's post because I think I understand what he means. OP is saying adding additional homosexual LI's in the game is ok, but they should not change established characters to be something they're not. It's fairly well established that Garrus is straight, yet there are people that ask for them to make an entirely new cannon for Garrus's sexuality to make them more happy. OP is simply saying this should not be done. I tend to agree. Add more homosexual characters, I approve of that, but if a character has an established sexuality i think its a disservice to the character to retcon their sexuality.

EDIT: I think this should apply both ways btw. I loved Traynors character and I was bummed when I found out she was lesbian, but itd be a disservice to her character to retcon it and make her bi.

Modifié par Metalstorm980, 03 avril 2012 - 03:22 .

[shnellegaming]

Personally I wish they had given the word count of Traynor, Cortez, Allers and James Vega to ME1 and ME2 characters.  The new characters were well done, I liked them.  But if I had a choice I'd rather have more Garrus, Tali, LIara, Ash, Kaidan, Joker, Edi, Jack, Thane, Miranda, etc.  Maybe have Gianna Parasini, the Consort and all the others come back.

As for the homosexual things thats what Player Choice is for.  If you don't like it don't choose it.

[Kanon777]

Maybe we should just ignore Agamo45, report him to the mods and continue the actual discussion of this tread. Dont feed the troll

[shepskisaac]

humes spork wrote...

The best way to avoid male homosexual LI's is to try to not stick your peener in other dudes. It may just be me, but I've never had a problem with that no matter how many dudes are around me that would be receptive to the idea of my peener inside them.

Apparently, it's too complicated for some guys. Which reminds me: www.theonion.com/articles/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-****,10861/

tobito113 wrote...

Maybe we should just ignore Agamo45, report him to the mods and continue the actual discussion of this tread. Dont feed the troll

There's nothing to continue. Useless thread is useless

Modifié par IsaacShep, 03 avril 2012 - 03:20 .

[Ashilana]

Arik7 wrote...

The title of this thread is targeting people based on their sexual orientation and some posters propagate eugenics and other N@zi ideals. How is this thread is still open? The mods should be doing a better job.

I think Bioware is a bit overwhelmed these days.   Sadly people will take advantage of the situation.

[Kanon777]

IsaacShep wrote...

humes spork wrote...

The best way to avoid male homosexual LI's is to try to not stick your peener in other dudes. It may just be me, but I've never had a problem with that no matter how many dudes are around me that would be receptive to the idea of my peener inside them.

Apparently, it's too complicated for some guys. Which reminds me: www.theonion.com/articles/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-****,10861/

tobito113 wrote...

Maybe we should just ignore Agamo45, report him to the mods and continue the actual discussion of this tread. Dont feed the troll

There's nothing to continue. Useless thread is useless

also from Agamo54 10 months ago 
http://social.biowar...6/index/7476855 

I dont understand how bioware didnt permaban this racist ahole yet >.>

www.theonion.com/articles/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-****,10861/ Ok this was the best thing i ever read from the onion xD

Modifié par tobito113, 03 avril 2012 - 03:24 .

[kingofkings276]

Arken wrote...

Athro wrote...

This is the thing I don't get about the whole "Kaidan shouldn't be gay!" brigade. His sexuality is linked to YOUR story. So if you play as a straight female and romance Kaidan - he's straight in your story. And to be honest, the fact that Kaidan doesn't romance mShep until the third game makes the bi/gay Kaidan storyline so different it's a different character and story altogether.

There seems to be this weird notion that the characters are set in stone. But they are guided by the story they are in.

I really noticed this watching my flatmate playing femShep in ME3 and talking to Kaidan. In that version, Kaidan came across as kind of whiny and weak next to femShep. But in my playthrough, he was competent, intelligent and very much mShep's equal. Conversations with him had a very different tone and feel to them.

Because, as you say, in MY story he was a different character.

They both work. It just seems to me that some people have trouble separating their story from others.

You see here's the only problem with this, I'd liked to first say that I enjoy that Kaidan is a S/S option, is that Kaidan is not your Shepard nor are any of your squadmates.

What makes the characters great is their personality, motivations, and behavior. You can't simply alter that because it's part of "your story". Yes, who you romance is part of your story, but their sexuality isn't.

When things such as sexuality and personality of a squadmate become nothing more than variables for the player to decide than it diminishes the character themself.

The characters in the game become nothing but playthings for the player do whatever they please with.

"Want Liara to become a renegade? Just click this button."

"Want Garrus to change classes to a biotic? Just click this button."

"Want Wrex as an LI? Just click this button."


Shepard is a plaything, but not his squad. When they do things or change due our actions it should be due to a choice with unintended consequences. An example is the fate of Mordin depending on what choices you made.

You decide the destiny of Mordin, but it wasn't a simple "Click this button to change Mordin's motivations so he doesn't do this." It was an organic process throughout the three games that led up to that moment.

Kaidan should be S/S.

Jack should have been S/S

Thane should have been S/S

And that's it. The only reasons those character should be available as S/S options is due to the fact that it was originally intended, and it fits for each of them. I would have been fine if Thane was an S/S option in 3, because it was intended from the start.

What Bioware needs to remember though, is that no aspect of a character's personality should be up to the player unless it's a well crafter system such as the fate of Mordin. If Kaidan is interested in men in a male Shepard playthrough than his interest in men should at least be recognized in a female Shepard playthrough.

Kaidan is who he is, and it shouldn't change based on Shepard's gender. That should apply for all characters if Bioware cares about the integrity of the artistic importance of their characters.

Although considering the way they ended the trilogy I'm not sure if Bioware really understands art anymore...

[humes spork]

IsaacShep wrote...

Apparently, it's too complicated for some guys. Which reminds me: www.theonion.com/articles/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-****,10861/

The one that makes me laugh incessantly is how people claim to have been ninjamanced into the homosexual romances. How? I've seen those dialogue choices, and I can't even communicate a way those dialog wheel options could be more obvious without violating the forum code of conduct.

If you don't want to see man-on-man action and for some reason deadset against seeing it, and you're engaged in dialog with a known potential homosexual LI, and you aren't paying enough attention to avoid it when possible, you have it coming...and so do Steve and/or Kaiden.

Modifié par humes spork, 03 avril 2012 - 03:28 .

[DentedHalo]

humes spork wrote...

The best way to avoid male homosexual LI's is to try to not stick your peener in other dudes. It may just be me, but I've never had a problem with that no matter how many dudes are around me that would be receptive to the idea of my peener inside them.

I mean, it's not exactly something that can happen by accident. "Whoops, I tripped and my peener fell inside another dude". At some point, somewhere and sometime there's generally intent for your peener to end up inside another dude, if it happens.

...and if it does, that's okay. So you like your peener inside dudes. Who gives a crap? It doesn't change who you are.

favourite post ever

[xxskyshadowxx]

I have to disagree with the OP.

Garrus is epic....everyone should be allowed to romance him. Hehee

Okay...I'm a hypocrite because I didn't romance Garrus...cuz he was too much like a big brother (which was a relationship that I loved)....but STILL...everyone should be allowed to romance Garrus.

[greggm2000]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

I have to disagree with the OP.

Garrus is epic....everyone should be allowed to romance him. Hehee

Okay...I'm a hypocrite because I didn't romance Garrus...cuz he was too much like a big brother (which was a relationship that I loved)....but STILL...everyone should be allowed to romance Garrus.

Yeah, I'm going to try that sometime with a new Femshep. You're not the first that's given Garrus rave reviews

[nopantsisabela]

IsaacShep wrote...

Apparently, it's too complicated for some guys. Which reminds me: www.theonion.com/articles/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-****,10861/

There's nothing to continue. Useless thread is useless

Oh no IsaacShep. Useless thread is not useless. I just about fell off my bed laughing at that article.

Modifié par nopantsisabela, 03 avril 2012 - 03:53 .

[Athro]

kingofkings276 wrote...

Arken wrote...

Athro wrote...

This is the thing I don't get about the whole "Kaidan shouldn't be gay!" brigade. His sexuality is linked to YOUR story. So if you play as a straight female and romance Kaidan - he's straight in your story. And to be honest, the fact that Kaidan doesn't romance mShep until the third game makes the bi/gay Kaidan storyline so different it's a different character and story altogether.

There seems to be this weird notion that the characters are set in stone. But they are guided by the story they are in.

I really noticed this watching my flatmate playing femShep in ME3 and talking to Kaidan. In that version, Kaidan came across as kind of whiny and weak next to femShep. But in my playthrough, he was competent, intelligent and very much mShep's equal. Conversations with him had a very different tone and feel to them.

Because, as you say, in MY story he was a different character.

They both work. It just seems to me that some people have trouble separating their story from others.

You see here's the only problem with this, I'd liked to first say that I enjoy that Kaidan is a S/S option, is that Kaidan is not your Shepard nor are any of your squadmates.

What makes the characters great is their personality, motivations, and behavior. You can't simply alter that because it's part of "your story". Yes, who you romance is part of your story, but their sexuality isn't.

When things such as sexuality and personality of a squadmate become nothing more than variables for the player to decide than it diminishes the character themself.

The characters in the game become nothing but playthings for the player do whatever they please with.

"Want Liara to become a renegade? Just click this button."

"Want Garrus to change classes to a biotic? Just click this button."

"Want Wrex as an LI? Just click this button."


Shepard is a plaything, but not his squad. When they do things or change due our actions it should be due to a choice with unintended consequences. An example is the fate of Mordin depending on what choices you made.

You decide the destiny of Mordin, but it wasn't a simple "Click this button to change Mordin's motivations so he doesn't do this." It was an organic process throughout the three games that led up to that moment.

Kaidan should be S/S.

Jack should have been S/S

Thane should have been S/S

And that's it. The only reasons those character should be available as S/S options is due to the fact that it was originally intended, and it fits for each of them. I would have been fine if Thane was an S/S option in 3, because it was intended from the start.

What Bioware needs to remember though, is that no aspect of a character's personality should be up to the player unless it's a well crafter system such as the fate of Mordin. If Kaidan is interested in men in a male Shepard playthrough than his interest in men should at least be recognized in a female Shepard playthrough.

Kaidan is who he is, and it shouldn't change based on Shepard's gender. That should apply for all characters if Bioware cares about the integrity of the artistic importance of their characters.

Although considering the way they ended the trilogy I'm not sure if Bioware really understands art anymore...

As a professional writer, I have to respectfully disagree.

What needs to happen in the game is that if you romance Kaidan as a gay character - then his storyline should reflect that character. If you romance Kaidan as a straight character - you get a different story.

To think that Kaidan has to be exactly the same character in both stories is a mistake. Sexuality is not *that* defining.

As a writer, I have had many stories where I've sat down and changed not only the sexuality of characters, but their genders as well to see what changes that makes to the story and how I tell it. Their personalities still stay the same, they just have some things they do differently - and it makes for an interesting experience.

The point of the series is that the player can't make any *wrong* narrative choices, only different ones - and that they get a different story as a result.

The mistake you make is assuming that a character *must* have all traits fixed to be a real character. This is a fallacy. What they need is a consistent character in the narrative you play. If I choose to play Shepard as a male, then Kaidan is bi from the start of the game. He always has been bi, and his entire narrative during that playthrough is that he's Bi. Whether or not he's straight in someone else's narrative is neither here nor there. In MY narrative, he was bi.

Expecting the Kaidan to act bi in a narrative where he's not bi is kind of missing the strength of Mass Effect's structure. That's trying to claim there is a singular fixed narrative. But in a game where the Geth can die, Tali can kill herself, The Rachni may never have shown up, Mordin never got the data he needed to successfully cure the genophage... the idea that Kaidan is fixed as a bi or gay character in all narratives is assuming that the story plays out exactly the same.

It doesn't.

There is more than a singular narrative at play here. And it isn't making the NPCs playthings. It's simply fulfilling the needs of the narrative to have the Protagonist fall in love.

It's the same reason that regardless of whether you choose Renegade or Paragon - it's always the right decision. Because the narrative says Shepard can't make a "wrong" choice - simply a different one.

Personally, I feel that a lot of this "don't make them gay" has a bit of a fear that it suggests sexuality is more fluid than we're all comfortable with. The thing to remember is that there is no singular character - but versions of a character. A writer will usually do several rewrites of a character just to see what differences it brings to the storyline. This is no different.

[Andsmth85]

Don't see where the problem is here really , the Op doesnt want to see existing characters turned gay ( neither do i , Garrus is a bro and he should stay that way ) and its his right just like its your right to ask for the opposite , dont be so damned defensive all the time .