403 réponses à ce sujet

[Mandemon]

Gigamantis wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

ME2's ending was actually kinda boring.  ME1 was good but I can't say I really got all that emotional.  This is just the first time I actually felt any need to register the game.  I wanted to be able to talk on the forums. 

ME2 ending boring? Dude, have you ever played it even? Care to elaborate this further? Why was it boring?

Gigamantis wrote...

I honestly think the majority was just upset at the sad ending but decided that overstating plot-holes made them sound more rational in their extreme emotional reaction.  That's just my opinion, though.  

 

It's not the "sadness" of the ending that has up in the arms, it's the plot holes and inconsistencies that invalidade the earlier games. Hell, the ending of ME3 makes entire ME1 plot pointless.

What exactly is interesting about the ME2 ending?  Raid collector base, kill boss, steroetypical harrowing escape ... it was a typical B action movie ending.  There was no emotional weight and it wasn't very interesting.   Easily the worst in the series.  

Also, plot-holes make people critical but they don't start teary eyed internet riots.  I really feel this is all a byproduct of the sad ending. 

Did you miss the part were you choose specialist? Did you miss the part where characters, including Shepard, could permanently die? I mean, it is called "Suicide Mission" for a reason. Or did you even care for your squad mates? Did you have no "I hope X survives"?

And as I said it's not the "sad" ending problem. Mass Effect 2 can end with Shepard dying. Do you hear anyone complaining about that? No. It was one outcome. Main problem with ME3 ending is that it makes entire trilogy pointless.

Why was Sovereign needed, hell, why was the plot of ME1 needed of there was this Reaper God in Citadel? How did my squad mates teleport? Where did Normandy crash land? How come there are no signs of crash landings? Did relay explosions wipe out entire systems like in Arrival and if they did, did I just destroy entire galaxy? There are tons of plot holes that keep piling up.

[Gigamantis]

Madecologist wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

So this is ultimately about their artistic integrity?

We definitely haven't heard that before.

It's ultimately about me liking the ending.  I would like Bioware to maintain their integrity, though, mainly because I'd like to continue being a fan and if they start letting you write their stories for them I won't be able to. 

Again, I think people take the interpertation of it too far. If Bioware chooses to change its ending, or expand on it (doesn't matter what the motivations are) they are still in the driving seat. They decide what the changes or additions will be. Not us. So they still maintain their artisitic integrity.

Asking them to change the ending or expressing dissatisifaction and saying the ending as is doesn't cut it is not telling them how to write the end. Yes people that are doing fanfics are but I am not speaking of them here. Most people are saying they are not satisified and that if the endings are they way they are they have lost interest in future products.

You can not ask someone to like something they don't like nor can you ask them to keep buying from a company that someone feels is not satisfying them. It is still art but once you start selling it you are influenced by market pressures the same way anything else that is sold is. An artist that wants to make money better be able to sell his work.

Actually did you consider saying Bioware should ignore the complaints or not listen to the Retakers is just as bad as saying they should change their ending. You -ARE- telling them what they should do or not do. If you truely believe in their artistic right than you support them no matter what they decide be it change or not change.

I personally am not asking for a new ending. I think they are bad and I am not interested in a company that makes endings like this. I will take my business elsewhere. Bioware can choose to whatever it wants, as can I (all within the reason of the Law... none of us can go streaking in the middle of the street.. for example).

I've already said I would be fine with Bioware adding to what they already created as the ending in new content.

My problem is with them allowing you to force them to change content.  Even if it's them at the driver seat it's not what they wanted and their hearts won't be in it.  After all of this it's going to be hard for me to believe there was no fan influence in ANY new ending that's released.  If it adhere's to any of the crappy ideas on these forums I'll personally be disgusted by Bioware, for whatever that's worth.

[Dridengx]

what a surprise a guy who liked the ending and pages upon pages of people insulting him for it. Just another day at BSN

[Cyruge]

The ending was rushed, flat, poorly-written, poorly-executed and completely disregards the tone of the rest of the series. I don't see anything good about that.

[armorrekka]

the ending was just poorly done. And the defense you are giving makes me think someone is a bioware employee

[Gigamantis]

Mandemon wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Mandemon wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

ME2's ending was actually kinda boring.  ME1 was good but I can't say I really got all that emotional.  This is just the first time I actually felt any need to register the game.  I wanted to be able to talk on the forums. 

ME2 ending boring? Dude, have you ever played it even? Care to elaborate this further? Why was it boring?

Gigamantis wrote...

I honestly think the majority was just upset at the sad ending but decided that overstating plot-holes made them sound more rational in their extreme emotional reaction.  That's just my opinion, though.  

 

It's not the "sadness" of the ending that has up in the arms, it's the plot holes and inconsistencies that invalidade the earlier games. Hell, the ending of ME3 makes entire ME1 plot pointless.

What exactly is interesting about the ME2 ending?  Raid collector base, kill boss, steroetypical harrowing escape ... it was a typical B action movie ending.  There was no emotional weight and it wasn't very interesting.   Easily the worst in the series.  

Also, plot-holes make people critical but they don't start teary eyed internet riots.  I really feel this is all a byproduct of the sad ending. 

Did you miss the part were you choose specialist? Did you miss the part where characters, including Shepard, could permanently die? I mean, it is called "Suicide Mission" for a reason. Or did you even care for your squad mates? Did you have no "I hope X survives"?

And as I said it's not the "sad" ending problem. Mass Effect 2 can end with Shepard dying. Do you hear anyone complaining about that? No. It was one outcome. Main problem with ME3 ending is that it makes entire trilogy pointless.

Why was Sovereign needed, hell, why was the plot of ME1 needed of there was this Reaper God in Citadel? How did my squad mates teleport? Where did Normandy crash land? How come there are no signs of crash landings? Did relay explosions wipe out entire systems like in Arrival and if they did, did I just destroy entire galaxy? There are tons of plot holes that keep piling up.

If and when your squad mates did die it was very anti-climatic and, like I said, boring.  I'm also pretty sure it was possible for most everyone to survive.  Not even a fraction of the emotional weight in ME3.  Sorry, the ending sucked.

In ME2 everyone could get the ending they wanted if they worked it right.  That's why no one got pissy.  If they did release a flowers and rainbows ending to ME3 I'm pretty sure a lot of the complaining would go away.

The rest of your details could be easily explained away in DLC or even just assumed.  Explanations would be fun and we'll probably get them, BUT YOU'RE OVERREACTING.

[clipped_wolf]

Larryboy_Dragon wrote...

Well...the others had better final missions, but ME3's actual ending was on par.

The bigger surprise is that people are surprised that it's like all Bioware's other games.
Some folk here were clearing drinking the marketing kool-aid.

You had low expectations and Bioware delivered?

[gnaag]

Whos insulting him/her? Its a debate, just because you have an opinion counter to others does not make your opinion more or less valid than others.
The OP starts a thread saying others are overreacting well that invites people to disagree and perhaps some insult. If he liked the games ending good for him/her but then take a stance that says if bioware changes the ending because of fans they are blah blah.
Any changes would be in DLC form so it would not change his/her ending in the slightest unless they got that DLC. Also it doesn't change what bioware does with the mass effect IP after ME3 because any game they start lets say ME4 will be what they decided how to end ME3. Then fans can choose to purchase ME4.

[AwesomeDudex64]

 That's fine but my opinion is better than yours.

[Geneaux486]

I liked the ending to, Gigamantis. Thought it was pretty damn good to be honest.

[Auztin]

If Bioware keeps going down this road with thier games.They will be the next Zipper Interactive.I would love for someone who liked the endings to explain it since everybody that liked endings never do.

Modifié par Auztinito, 03 avril 2012 - 05:24 .

[clipped_wolf]

Gigamantis wrote...

The rest of your details could be easily explained away in DLC or even just assumed.  Explanations would be fun and we'll probably get them, BUT YOU'RE OVERREACTING.

I get it.  You weren't emotionally involved in the first 2 games.  You thought they was predictable and boring.  You enjoyed the suprise of the ME3 ending and it did not sour the series for you.
Some of us however were more emotionally involved and for years.
This does ot make our us inferior, and yours does not make you inferior.

AwesomeDudex64 wrote...That's fine but my opinion is better than yours.

I'm always right.  Never wrong.  I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

Modifié par clipped_wolf, 03 avril 2012 - 05:33 .

[GME_ThorianCreeper]

Dridengx wrote...

what a surprise a guy who liked the ending and pages upon pages of people insulting him for it. Just another day at BSN

Amen brother.

Just another day...

[Joccaren]

Gigamantis wrote...

In ME2 everyone could get the ending they wanted if they worked it right.  That's why no one got pissy.  If they did release a flowers and rainbows ending to ME3 I'm pretty sure a lot of the complaining would go away.

This is where your arguments lose all merits for me.

Go play a linear game then, but leave our RPGs alone. RPGs are RPGs BECAUSE we can change things with our decisions, because our character is not something created by the devs to play out their fantasy. Hell, its OUR character. That is why ME2 was the better ending - you could get the ending you wanted. You want a happy ending, you got it. You want a bad ending, you got it. You were given choice and consequence, in ME3 ending you are given niether. This removes all emotional weight from it there and then.
I don't care that Shepard died, there is no emotion behind it. There was no choice - he just died. Saying there was choice or sacrifice is like saying that if I put you infront of three gas chamber doors and told you to pick one that you would have choice and sacrifice. No f***s were given because it was forced, unatural and didn't fit with the story.
The closest to emotional I got was Shepard reaching for the control panel before falling. THAT would have been where it should have ended. Shepard falling, then a montage of your war assets fighting the Reapers. Winning if you got them high enough, losing if not.

Mass Effect 2's ending carried emotional weight as it was your choices that caused things to happen. You were responsible for it. Thane died? That was because you f***ed up. In ME3, you are detached from Shepard. Your choices mean nothing. If someone dies, its not because you f***ed up, but because it was written to happen.

An RPG is about CHOICE. Mass Effect is an RPG. In the ME3 ending, there is NO CHOICE. This means it fails as an ending to an RPG franchise. It is one of the main reasons so many hate it. It is an inappropriate and plain bad ending for the series.

[TheLastAwakening]

Auztinito wrote...

If Bioware keeps going down this road with thier games.They will be the next Zipper Interactive.I would love for someone who liked the endings to explain it since everybody that liked endings never do.

Or Pandemic Studios.

Anyhow, if someone who like the ending tried to explain it, I doubt anyone would care to listen. Furthermore, they may have a bit of trouble since the ending was made in a way to allow speculation.

As an example I could say I liked the ending because it doesn't do what the other two Mass Effect games did which is account for the Players choices. Furthermore, I could say I liked the narrowness of the final decisions. Now, if I were to say these things, someone may point out that I was indoctrinated by Bioware and that I am disregarding the marketing promises etc..


Edit: I am not saying these things.

Modifié par TheLastAwakening, 03 avril 2012 - 05:36 .

[Auztin]

TheLastAwakening wrote...

Auztinito wrote...

If Bioware keeps going down this road with thier games.They will be the next Zipper Interactive.I would love for someone who liked the endings to explain it since everybody that liked endings never do.

Or Pandemic Studios.

Anyhow, if someone who like the ending tried to explain it, I doubt anyone would care to listen. Furthermore, they may have a bit of trouble since the ending was made in a way to allow speculation.

As an example I could say I liked the ending because it doesn't do what the other two Mass Effect games did which is account for the Players choices. Furthermore, I could say I liked the narrowness of the final decisions. Now, if I were to say these things, someone may point out that I was indoctrinated by Bioware and that I am disregarding the marketing promises etc..

I forgot about Pandmic Studios.
Didn't think about that way.Thanks.

[Desteron]

[Madecologist]

Gigamantis wrote...

I've already said I would be fine with Bioware adding to what they already created as the ending in new content.

My problem is with them allowing you to force them to change content.  Even if it's them at the driver seat it's not what they wanted and their hearts won't be in it.  After all of this it's going to be hard for me to believe there was no fan influence in ANY new ending that's released.  If it adhere's to any of the crappy ideas on these forums I'll personally be disgusted by Bioware, for whatever that's worth.

I can understand that. But consider one thing, what if Bioware itself after some consideration are personally not satisfied with their own work. I do some creative works of my own. Nothing big, I am as amatuer as amatuer can be but I have many times looked back at things I done and wondered if I was drunk or something.

Heck sometimes it took someone else to connect the dots for me. Should I limit myself and not feel that I can improve my work, out of fear that if I did it would seem I listened to outside pressure? In way that too also removes my right as well, because I am forced to stick to an original work I do not believe in anymore.

I do understand your point that if they did execute a change it will be hard to know if it is merely from pressure or if there is self realisation within that desire. You being one that liked the endings as they are will be prone to be skeptical, which is understandable. Still in the end it is their choice, I do believe what ever choice they make they have considered all the factors.

I doubt they will listen to any of the suggestions people had. If they do decide to change they will probably only take the most legitimately made criticisms, consider them, and go back to the drawing board and do what -they want-. If they don't and just release some piece of pandering token, then yeah you have the right to be upset that they caved in to pressure. But not all changes should be considered as such untill they are seen and can be confirmed that it was.

Another thing to consider, the last official word we got is they are intending to keep their vision and idea of what the end should be as is, and only planning to address technical issues (plotholes or poorly explained events), and offer more closure to the players within the context of the current endings. This might still cause some minor changes at some places, but something like that is definately not pandering or caving in to the demands. Time will tell just exactly how far they will go.

Short version, I understand your point that you want us to understand that some liked the ending and that caving in to demands would be a disservice to their creativity in the long run. I hoping I can convey to you that not all changes are automatically that and that Bioware should still be reserved the right to change things it feels that it might have mishandled, and doing so is not them sacrificing any of their dignity.

Modifié par Madecologist, 03 avril 2012 - 05:44 .

[Mandemon]

Gigamantis wrote...

If and when your squad mates did die it was very anti-climatic and, like I said, boring.  I'm also pretty sure it was possible for most everyone to survive.  Not even a fraction of the emotional weight in ME3.  Sorry, the ending sucked.

In ME2 everyone could get the ending they wanted if they worked it right.  That's why no one got pissy.  If they did release a flowers and rainbows ending to ME3 I'm pretty sure a lot of the complaining would go away.

The rest of your details could be easily explained away in DLC or even just assumed.  Explanations would be fun and we'll probably get them, BUT YOU'RE OVERREACTING.

Anti-climatic? You mean tech specialist dying when he can't close the door correctly and gets shot trying to close it? You mean when one of your squad mates is forcibly taken by seeker swarms?

Also, they only survive if you work for their survival. Just blazing trough the game with to no regard to Nromandy or her crew makes them dead. When Collectors took your crew you have only 1 mission before they are liquified, most likely the Legion loyalty mission.

ME2 had more emotional impact that ME3. Tell me, how does the ME3 brings better climax? Trough space magic? Finding lost Reaper off-switch? Which, BTW, Hudson said there wouldn't be except it is here.

Finally, go ahead and assume thins for me. Explain to me why those plot holes that I gave can be explained. Because so far, I have heard no good explanation. If DLC, a paid DLC, is required to understand the game then we were sold half-finished game, we were cheated.

How am I over-reaction, BTW? By demanding better ending? I demand better ending because Mass Effect as a series deserves better.

[Iakus]

Gigamantis wrote...

If and when your squad mates did die it was very anti-climatic and, like I said, boring.  I'm also pretty sure it was possible for most everyone to survive.  Not even a fraction of the emotional weight in ME3.  Sorry, the ending sucked.

In ME2 everyone could get the ending they wanted if they worked it right.  That's why no one got pissy.  If they did release a flowers and rainbows ending to ME3 I'm pretty sure a lot of the complaining would go away.

The rest of your details could be easily explained away in DLC or even just assumed.  Explanations would be fun and we'll probably get them, BUT YOU'RE OVERREACTING.

ME3's emotional weight?

Nothing in the game mattered! 

Ships, troops, equipment, none of it mattered.  It was all rendered down into an arbitrary number that decided which beams lit up.  

Allies?  Squadmates?  Didn't matter either.  In the end, Shepard stood alone.  With three choices forced upon him by the Goddler.  

Shepard didn't stop the Reapers.  

The Reapers allowed Shepard to stop them.

And in the end, Shepard died.  He died alone And died in pain.  

Yay, I guess.

[Keldaurz]

Madecologist wrote...

Short version, I understand your point that you want us to understand that some liked the ending and that caving in to demands would be a disservice to their creativity in the long run. I hoping I can convey to you that not all changes are automatically that and that Bioware should still be reserved the right to change things it feels that it might have mishandled, and doing so is not them sacrificing any of their dignity.

Agreed.

[cutegigi]

Dridengx wrote...

what a surprise a guy who liked the ending and pages upon pages of people insulting him for it. Just another day at BSN

I can say the exact same thing about your post really.....

[CPTHughJardon]

regardless of what you thought of the ME2 ending the reason nobody really complained was because you had choice and what you did during the game effected the ending.if you wanted to be an ass and get everybody killed you could and if you wanted the "flowers and rainbow" end you could.it covered all bases and was well thought out.if bioware feel like their hand is being forced in this then maybe they should make the effort to understand their core fanbase a little better and not neglect what made mass effect popular in the first place.for me it all just says that 3 was more rushed than the other 2 and not just because of the endings.but if people liked it then all credit too you,

[VoodooDrackus]

The Night Mammoth wrote...


Deus Ex askes you to pick between literally the same three choices at the end, color coded in the exact same way, chosen throught pretty much the same mechanism. 

But hey, at least the plot fit with that. 

Mass Effect? No, not at all. 

You did not even play Deus Ex... which discredits anything you have to say.

Gigamantis, dont listen to people like this who obviously didn't play Deus Ex.
There are 4 choices. They are not color coded. They are not the same choices as in Mass Effect 3. You can either influence the world with the first 3 choices 1. Tell the truth about what was really going on. 2. Pro Augmentation. 3. Anti- Augmentation. or choose to destroy the facility and yourself and Let the future play out.
There is a lot more to those choices and their outcomes. I just list them off so you can see that they are not the same moral choices Shepard has to make.


And really I am surprised you have been reading their trolling posts and respond in a very civil manner. Way to keep your composure.

[DanteImprimis]

VoodooDrackus wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...


Deus Ex askes you to pick between literally the same three choices at the end, color coded in the exact same way, chosen throught pretty much the same mechanism. 

But hey, at least the plot fit with that. 

Mass Effect? No, not at all. 

You did not even play Deus Ex... which discredits anything you have to say.

Gigamantis, dont listen to people like this who obviously didn't play Deus Ex.
There are 4 choices. They are not color coded. They are not the same choices as in Mass Effect 3. You can either influence the world with the first 3 choices 1. Tell the truth about what was really going on. 2. Pro Augmentation. 3. Anti- Augmentation. or choose to destroy the facility and yourself and Let the future play out.
There is a lot more to those choices and their outcomes. I just list them off so you can see that they are not the same moral choices Shepard has to make.


And really I am surprised you have been reading their trolling posts and respond in a very civil manner. Way to keep your composure.

They're talking about the original Deus Ex, not Human Revolution.