403 réponses à ce sujet

[Gigamantis]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

LOL!  I love how you guys insist on proving my point.  I purposely came up with the most horrendous, uncreative, cliched way to possibly end this game and you all insist on praising it.  This is why you all shouldn't have any control over the creative end of anything.  THIS is why I'm done with Bioware the second they hand you people control. 

No, thank you for proving my point. You came up with the most horrendous, uncreative, cliched way to possibly end the game and still managed to do a better job than the developers in charge of this five year series. It's not really a compliment, to you or to them. Your ending sucks. It's just that Bioware's sucks substantially more, which is itself an indication of the ending's lack of quality. If a fan can pull out a better idea from his butt with barely a minute's worth of thought, that says alot about what the devs accomplished.

I didn't prove anything.  I made an uncreative ending and you loved it.  Bioware made a moving and intense ending and it wasn't inane enough for you.  This is why you shouldn't be trusted to gauge creativity, because you thought my ending was creative.  You thought Bioware should hire me because my ending is the one you wanted to see. 

You have silly taste if you liked my ending.  You would write a bad story. 

[Joccaren]

Gigamantis wrote...

Artistic integrity is sticking with your artistic vision, period.  If I'm inspired to write a great novel and a bunch of children yell at me because they want a picture book I have a decision to make as an artist.  I can either see through my inspiration or just half-heartedly create the picture book to stop the crying.  The picture book will be crap because my hearts not in it, but I could sacrifice my integrity to stop the crying.  

Yet you are assuming this is their artistic vision, and that that vision cannot change.
Do you not think it is possible they actually had something planned, but were rushed to finish the ending - as well as the rest of the game? Or do you think this was the be all end all ending they had planned, that they thought this was the absolute perfect way to end the series?
If the latter, I don't understand why you haven't walked out yet. Such blatantly terrible literary technique, storytelling technique, and utter disregard for the franchise you are writing for sure as hell isn't something I'd stick around for.

I don't believe in IT BTW. I believe that Bioware had something big planned, but several things - A new lead writer, Kinect being shoehorned in, rushed release schedual - all added up to them being unable to complete it. This may never have been Bioware's true artistic vision - you simply claim it is.

Then too, their artistic vision may have changed. It is not uncommon to be working on something when you have an apiphany, and come up with some great new idea for it. Sure, you may have to change a few things you've already done, but your new vision decides this is for the better.

Honestly, Bioware are strong enough to hold their own. Their artistic integrity won't be sacrificed because the ending is changed. If they change it, its on their terms how. Contrary to popular belief they're not going to write an ending like an action flick where everything just blows up for no reason [Oh wait...] and everyone comes together happily ever after. More likely they will extend their vision, and synthesise both it and the fans wants into a satisfying ending that doesn't destroy the franchise. Your lack of faith in Bioware to be their own company is somewhat disturbing.

[xxskyshadowxx]

Gigamantis wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Right, Shepard should've kicked his ass then flipped off the reapers, delivered a sexy die hard one-liner, then pushed a big red button that tore those reapers apart.  Then Anderson should run up and the credits should roll on a freeze frame of them high-fiving. 

I totally want the BSN community to write the next big Bioware game. 

Damn, in less than a minute you managed to come up with a substantially better ending than the crap we got. Bioware should hire this guy.

LOL!  I love how you guys insist on proving my point.  I purposely came up with the most horrendous, uncreative, cliched way to possibly end this game and you all insist on praising it.  This is why you all shouldn't have any control over the creative end of anything.  THIS is why I'm done with Bioware the second they hand you people control. 

then be done with bioware, your not needed

Hold up there, champ.  They didn't let you write the ending yet.  The second I see one of your horrible ideas on a DLC is when I'll be done.  

Fortunately I think Bioware is just going to expand on THEIR ending, which is fine.  

The ending already is cliched. It's been done in at least one video game, and several other mediums. Nearly anything else would be better.

Like I dunno...considering we know that the Reapers have their own individualized code, and the Alliance has it (as do the Geth), a possible ending would be to use the Geth (assuming you freed them) to modify and then shut down the code. Get rid of the Reapers without killing absolutely everyone...what a novel concept.

Or if that's not an option....how about Shepard questioning ANY part of Star Kid's diatribe....because just blindly accepting it goes against Shepard's entire character. So shepard is like "No B,S." and radios everyone to just open up on the Reapers. They'll fail and the cycle will end...but the cycle ends anyway....at least Shepard will go down fighting for what he/she believes in...rather than blindly committing genocide to accomplish the exact same conclusion. (read your codexes if the genocide thing confuses you).

Or.....and I am really grasping at straws here, I am sure....maybe...just maybe...Bioware could deliver on the 16 "vastly different" endings they promised the game would have, and all sorts of possibilities could be explored, based on the players' choices (yet another undelivered claim).

[KingKhan03]

Gigamantis wrote...

Yes, I know.  Blah blah need more explanation.  Blah blah I'm sad because everyone died and my choices didn't change the ending enough to make me less sad in future playthroughs.  

The ending was the most well produced and moving one in the entire series.  Definitely a fitting conclusion. 

I'm all for lobbying to fill in a few of the plotholes with explanations, maybe in future DLC, but man can you people overreact like no one else on the planet.  They had better not change the ending.  The game was fantastic. 

You seem like a level headed guy but to sit there and tell me this ending was the best in the series is insulting. First of all a Game that is built on your choices should integrate them into the Game's finale. This is the final game of a trilogy it should not give you more questions then answers. Pile on the amount of plot-holes and imo the ending needs some serious work. I respect your opinion but this ending was not even close to the best in the series.

[The Night Mammoth]

Gigamantis wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

LOL!  I love how you guys insist on proving my point.  I purposely came up with the most horrendous, uncreative, cliched way to possibly end this game and you all insist on praising it.  This is why you all shouldn't have any control over the creative end of anything.  THIS is why I'm done with Bioware the second they hand you people control. 

No, thank you for proving my point. You came up with the most horrendous, uncreative, cliched way to possibly end the game and still managed to do a better job than the developers in charge of this five year series. It's not really a compliment, to you or to them. Your ending sucks. It's just that Bioware's sucks substantially more, which is itself an indication of the ending's lack of quality. If a fan can pull out a better idea from his butt with barely a minute's worth of thought, that says alot about what the devs accomplished.

I didn't prove anything.  I made an uncreative ending and you loved it.  Bioware made a moving and intense ending and it wasn't inane enough for you.  This is why you shouldn't be trusted to gauge creativity, because you thought my ending was creative.  You thought Bioware should hire me because my ending is the one you wanted to see. 

You have silly taste if you liked my ending.  You would write a bad story. 

He didn't love it, he acknowledged it was horrendous.

But it was still better than what we have. 

[dkear1]

Gigamantis wrote...
Again, we're talking about MILLIONS of people, so just stop.  I didn't say there weren't enough angry people to flood a forum, jack up a poll or review bomb a random website.  Forum polls are inherently biased towards unhappy people for OBVIOUS reasons.  People only show up on forums to complain.  

These aren't scientifically conducted polls so they're statistically useless.  That's all I'm saying.  It may very well be the majority who's unhappy, but there's no proof either way. 

ROFL!!!

Scientifically conducted polls????  Dude I am blowing snot bubbles I am laughing so hard.  There is NO SUCH THING as a scientifically conducted poll.  Yes there right and wrong ways to conduct polling (so as to get acurate results) but as has been pointed out MANY times already, the fact that the poll here is SO lopsided is a good indicator of a problem.  Every other gaming forum I visit is buzzing with ending hate.  It is time to wake up.

[Joccaren]

Gigamantis wrote...

I didn't prove anything.  I made an uncreative ending and you loved it.  Bioware made a moving and intense ending and it wasn't inane enough for you.  This is why you shouldn't be trusted to gauge creativity, because you thought my ending was creative.  You thought Bioware should hire me because my ending is the one you wanted to see. 

You have silly taste if you liked my ending.  You would write a bad story. 

Umm, no.
You assume the ending was moving and intense. It was not. It was rushed and utterly cliched and boring. Seriously, you should not be trusted to gauge creativity - as you dismiss anything not your opinion as 'bad taste'.
Noone thought your ending was creative. It was so cliched its not funny, but Bioware's was more contrived and made less sense. Your ending is not the one we wnated to see - don't be so up yourself. It is one we would have complain about too. It is one we would prefer to see over the current ones though. We want a good ending that makes sense and follows the themes of the story - which niether yours nor the current ending do. Failing that, we want an ending we can be happy about and that provides some closure - which your ending provides but the actual endings do not.
Honestly Bioware should not hire you as your story writing skills suck, as do your ability to gauge what a series is about - shown by your praise of the ending as moving and intense.

[gnaag]

I dislike the ending as do my friends yet none of us have indicated that on any poll. I show up on forums to see what bioware announces. If they make DLC to improve that bad ending then yeah for me if not then meh I'll spend my money else were.

And you showed up in the forums because your........................unhappy.....happy...indifferent...or you have compliants.........

[xxskyshadowxx]

KingKhan03 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Yes, I know.  Blah blah need more explanation.  Blah blah I'm sad because everyone died and my choices didn't change the ending enough to make me less sad in future playthroughs.  

The ending was the most well produced and moving one in the entire series.  Definitely a fitting conclusion. 

I'm all for lobbying to fill in a few of the plotholes with explanations, maybe in future DLC, but man can you people overreact like no one else on the planet.  They had better not change the ending.  The game was fantastic. 

You seem like a level headed guy but to sit there and tell me this ending was the best in the series is insulting. First of all a Game that is built on your choices should integrate them into the Game's finale. This is the final game of a trilogy it should not give you more questions then answers. Pile on the amount of plot-holes and imo the ending needs some serious work. I respect your opinion but this ending was not even close to the best in the series.

^This. The ME1 ending was good. The ME2 ending was very good (in my opinion...I know folks liked ME1's more), the ME3 ending was rushed, unoriginal, lazy and contrived. Bioware can do better, and more importantly, they HAVE done better.

[Gigamantis]

Then too, their artistic vision may have changed. It is not uncommon to be working on something when you have an apiphany, and come up with some great new idea for it. Sure, you may have to change a few things you've already done, but your new vision decides this is for the better.

Honestly, Bioware are strong enough to hold their own. Their artistic integrity won't be sacrificed because the ending is changed. If they change it, its on their terms how. Contrary to popular belief they're not going to write an ending like an action flick where everything just blows up for no reason [Oh wait...] and everyone comes together happily ever after. More likely they will extend their vision, and synthesise both it and the fans wants into a satisfying ending that doesn't destroy the franchise. Your lack of faith in Bioware to be their own company is somewhat disturbing.

Let's be clear; after all of this if the ending changes significantly it's OBVIOUSLY because of unrelenting pressure from the fans. They actually stood by their work right up until they couldn't, and if it does change now we'll all know why.

Anything beyond building on what is obviously their vision is unacceptable for me. I'll keep repeating this, I don't want you or anyone else influencing the creative process for the people who created this fantastic world. Let the DLC build on the things that were hinted at in the end of the game.

[kalasaurus]

I'm glad you enjoyed the ending, OP. I hope they clarify some things too (like wtf happened during the Normandy retreat).

I personally hated everything about the ending, but to each their own I say. I think any improvement is better than nothing. Bioware wanted to end it this way, but I would happily get a fixed ending DLC regardless.

[TheLastAwakening]

Gigamantis wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Right, Shepard should've kicked his ass then flipped off the reapers, delivered a sexy die hard one-liner, then pushed a big red button that tore those reapers apart.  Then Anderson should run up and the credits should roll on a freeze frame of them high-fiving. 

I totally want the BSN community to write the next big Bioware game. 

So do I, that sounds infintiely more fitting than what what we got. 

Yep, and this is exactly why I'm done with Bioware if they start giving the "fans" creative control.  I'm glad you liked that inane ending I cooked up, I really am. 

I'm totally with you man. This was the best ending in the series. All that speculation and stuff makes for a great ending, just look at the Bi..

Giving Fans creative control is not cool. Bioware/EA all the way. Like, when I reached the end, I was like where am I dude? Woah, so rad. Then I walked up the middle and green everywhere. That was awesome man. Best ending in the series ever. So rad.

[The Night Mammoth]

Gigamantis wrote...

Then too, their artistic vision may have changed. It is not uncommon to be working on something when you have an apiphany, and come up with some great new idea for it. Sure, you may have to change a few things you've already done, but your new vision decides this is for the better.

Honestly, Bioware are strong enough to hold their own. Their artistic integrity won't be sacrificed because the ending is changed. If they change it, its on their terms how. Contrary to popular belief they're not going to write an ending like an action flick where everything just blows up for no reason [Oh wait...] and everyone comes together happily ever after. More likely they will extend their vision, and synthesise both it and the fans wants into a satisfying ending that doesn't destroy the franchise. Your lack of faith in Bioware to be their own company is somewhat disturbing.

Let's be clear; after all of this if the ending changes significantly it's OBVIOUSLY because of unrelenting pressure from the fans. They actually stood by their work right up until they couldn't, and if it does change now we'll all know why.

Anything beyond building on what is obviously their vision is unacceptable for me. I'll keep repeating this, I don't want you or anyone else influencing the creative process for the people who created this fantastic world. Let the DLC build on the things that were hinted at in the end of the game.

Or they could uphold their integrity and change the ending for those who despise it. 

[Gigamantis]

Joccaren wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I didn't prove anything.  I made an uncreative ending and you loved it.  Bioware made a moving and intense ending and it wasn't inane enough for you.  This is why you shouldn't be trusted to gauge creativity, because you thought my ending was creative.  You thought Bioware should hire me because my ending is the one you wanted to see. 

You have silly taste if you liked my ending.  You would write a bad story. 

Umm, no.
You assume the ending was moving and intense. It was not. It was rushed and utterly cliched and boring. Seriously, you should not be trusted to gauge creativity - as you dismiss anything not your opinion as 'bad taste'.
Noone thought your ending was creative. It was so cliched its not funny, but Bioware's was more contrived and made less sense. Your ending is not the one we wnated to see - don't be so up yourself. It is one we would have complain about too. It is one we would prefer to see over the current ones though. We want a good ending that makes sense and follows the themes of the story - which niether yours nor the current ending do. Failing that, we want an ending we can be happy about and that provides some closure - which your ending provides but the actual endings do not.
Honestly Bioware should not hire you as your story writing skills suck, as do your ability to gauge what a series is about - shown by your praise of the ending as moving and intense.

I'm not a writer and neither are you.  Besides the introduction of the catalyst at the end the story is perfectly serviceable and the ending was indeed intense and moving.  I leave it to the real creative minds to continue building on what they've hinted at in DLC.  I don't want you or your horrible ideas involved any more than you would want me writing this series.  

[Gigamantis]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Then too, their artistic vision may have changed. It is not uncommon to be working on something when you have an apiphany, and come up with some great new idea for it. Sure, you may have to change a few things you've already done, but your new vision decides this is for the better.

Honestly, Bioware are strong enough to hold their own. Their artistic integrity won't be sacrificed because the ending is changed. If they change it, its on their terms how. Contrary to popular belief they're not going to write an ending like an action flick where everything just blows up for no reason [Oh wait...] and everyone comes together happily ever after. More likely they will extend their vision, and synthesise both it and the fans wants into a satisfying ending that doesn't destroy the franchise. Your lack of faith in Bioware to be their own company is somewhat disturbing.

Let's be clear; after all of this if the ending changes significantly it's OBVIOUSLY because of unrelenting pressure from the fans. They actually stood by their work right up until they couldn't, and if it does change now we'll all know why.

Anything beyond building on what is obviously their vision is unacceptable for me. I'll keep repeating this, I don't want you or anyone else influencing the creative process for the people who created this fantastic world. Let the DLC build on the things that were hinted at in the end of the game.

Or they could uphold their integrity and change the ending for those who despise it. 

You don't know what integrity is if you think you should abandon it every time someone complains. 

[Gigamantis]

TheLastAwakening wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Right, Shepard should've kicked his ass then flipped off the reapers, delivered a sexy die hard one-liner, then pushed a big red button that tore those reapers apart.  Then Anderson should run up and the credits should roll on a freeze frame of them high-fiving. 

I totally want the BSN community to write the next big Bioware game. 

So do I, that sounds infintiely more fitting than what what we got. 

Yep, and this is exactly why I'm done with Bioware if they start giving the "fans" creative control.  I'm glad you liked that inane ending I cooked up, I really am. 

I'm totally with you man. This was the best ending in the series. All that speculation and stuff makes for a great ending, just look at the Bi..

Giving Fans creative control is not cool. Bioware/EA all the way. Like, when I reached the end, I was like where am I dude? Woah, so rad. Then I walked up the middle and green everywhere. That was awesome man. Best ending in the series ever. So rad.

I think Shepard should have a monkey sidekick.  Want to start an online movement with me?  

[dkear1]

Integrity and Art.........two ridiculously misused words when talking about video games.

[Joccaren]

Gigamantis wrote...

Let's be clear; after all of this if the ending changes significantly it's OBVIOUSLY because of unrelenting pressure from the fans. They actually stood by their work right up until they couldn't, and if it does change now we'll all know why.

Anything beyond building on what is obviously their vision is unacceptable for me. I'll keep repeating this, I don't want you or anyone else influencing the creative process for the people who created this fantastic world. Let the DLC build on the things that were hinted at in the end of the game.

If they give into Indoc theory, I will agree with you.

If they rewrite the ending on their own terms, and make it their own ending, I will not. That is not them just giving in to the fans, that is them taking fan criticism and using their artistic vision to make it happen.

As for building on their vision, what about Drew Karpyshyn's vision? He has expressed how he thought such a series should end - in exact opposite of how it did end - without playing the game, and he was the lead writer of 1 and 2. 1 and 2 foreshadow a dark energy plot - that was apparently tossed away because someone else at Bioware thought their idea was better, with some right-out-of-left-field Catalyst kid thing. Is that building on the vision established in ME1 and 2, or throwing it out the window?

[The Night Mammoth]

Gigamantis wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Then too, their artistic vision may have changed. It is not uncommon to be working on something when you have an apiphany, and come up with some great new idea for it. Sure, you may have to change a few things you've already done, but your new vision decides this is for the better.

Honestly, Bioware are strong enough to hold their own. Their artistic integrity won't be sacrificed because the ending is changed. If they change it, its on their terms how. Contrary to popular belief they're not going to write an ending like an action flick where everything just blows up for no reason [Oh wait...] and everyone comes together happily ever after. More likely they will extend their vision, and synthesise both it and the fans wants into a satisfying ending that doesn't destroy the franchise. Your lack of faith in Bioware to be their own company is somewhat disturbing.

Let's be clear; after all of this if the ending changes significantly it's OBVIOUSLY because of unrelenting pressure from the fans. They actually stood by their work right up until they couldn't, and if it does change now we'll all know why.

Anything beyond building on what is obviously their vision is unacceptable for me. I'll keep repeating this, I don't want you or anyone else influencing the creative process for the people who created this fantastic world. Let the DLC build on the things that were hinted at in the end of the game.

Or they could uphold their integrity and change the ending for those who despise it. 

You don't know what integrity is if you think you should abandon it every time someone complains. 

They wouldn't be abondoning it if they changed this travesty to something more fitting the work that they did on the rest of the game. 

But you're right, they shouldn't just drop everything and deal with every complaint.

They should when 60,000 people are openly complaining. 

[xxskyshadowxx]

Gigamantis wrote...

Then too, their artistic vision may have changed. It is not uncommon to be working on something when you have an apiphany, and come up with some great new idea for it. Sure, you may have to change a few things you've already done, but your new vision decides this is for the better.

Honestly, Bioware are strong enough to hold their own. Their artistic integrity won't be sacrificed because the ending is changed. If they change it, its on their terms how. Contrary to popular belief they're not going to write an ending like an action flick where everything just blows up for no reason [Oh wait...] and everyone comes together happily ever after. More likely they will extend their vision, and synthesise both it and the fans wants into a satisfying ending that doesn't destroy the franchise. Your lack of faith in Bioware to be their own company is somewhat disturbing.

Let's be clear; after all of this if the ending changes significantly it's OBVIOUSLY because of unrelenting pressure from the fans. They actually stood by their work right up until they couldn't, and if it does change now we'll all know why.

Anything beyond building on what is obviously their vision is unacceptable for me. I'll keep repeating this, I don't want you or anyone else influencing the creative process for the people who created this fantastic world. Let the DLC build on the things that were hinted at in the end of the game.

You can get Deus Ex for like $10 on Steam....play it....and see if you can make this statement again with a straight face. I won't even bring up the Black Hole bomb from Gunbuster....just play Deus Ex and then try to argue "Creative process."

I think I'll paint the Mona Lisa...only I'll make her a blonde and call it original. Don't hate....it's all about my artistic integrity man.

[Icinix]

Oh it was moving allright.

Moved people to tears it did.

Moved people right ono the streets with pitchforks it did.

Moved lore and logic right down the toilet bowl.

The ending was most definitely moving.

[Joccaren]

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm not a writer and neither are you.  Besides the introduction of the catalyst at the end the story is perfectly serviceable and the ending was indeed intense and moving.  I leave it to the real creative minds to continue building on what they've hinted at in DLC.  I don't want you or your horrible ideas involved any more than you would want me writing this series.  

Read this for me:
http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/ 
I think this clearly explains why the ending is not servicable.

As to whether it is intense and moving, I will leave that to subjectivity. Suffice to say, the apparent majority thought it was not intense and moving, but instead confusing and not thought out.

[TheLastAwakening]

[quote]Gigamantis wrote...
I think Shepard should have a monkey sidekick.  Want to start an online movement with me?  
[/quote]


[/quote]
No bro. Artistic intergrity. You know, some people get it, others don't. The colors, I get the colors. So rad.

Modifié par TheLastAwakening, 03 avril 2012 - 04:23 .

[Vexia2070]

you know, the PR trolls or is it shills? are getting really easy to spot...just saying... Not the OP of course, but I have been looking at the "I love the game posters, when they joined, what they post - and where, how often, the nuanced "sure there are some plot holes but so what" kind of stuff.... but BW and EA wouldn't do that right??

Right?

[xxskyshadowxx]

Joccaren wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm not a writer and neither are you.  Besides the introduction of the catalyst at the end the story is perfectly serviceable and the ending was indeed intense and moving.  I leave it to the real creative minds to continue building on what they've hinted at in DLC.  I don't want you or your horrible ideas involved any more than you would want me writing this series.  

Read this for me:
http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/ 
I think this clearly explains why the ending is not servicable.

As to whether it is intense and moving, I will leave that to subjectivity. Suffice to say, the apparent majority thought it was not intense and moving, but instead confusing and not thought out.

Plot Diagram defeats the ME3 ending with a Falcon Punch.