Modifié par Iconoclaste, 03 avril 2012 - 04:29 .
Bethesda's sci-fi bounty hunter game got cancelled. :/durasteel wrote...
Railarian wrote...
If they decided to leave it as is, they'll confirm at PAX. Then we throw cupcakes at them...
No, don't be rude, just get up and leave.
BioWare has the right to stick with their ending and become the developer we used to really like, just as we have the right to find better things to do with our time and money. Go down the hall and see what kind of swag the Diablo III booth is giving away. See if Bethesda has footage of their new sci-fi bounty hunter game, the trailer was really cool last year.
It would be a shame if BioWare chose to waste this opportunity, but it is legitimately their choice to make.
Modifié par MoirDing, 03 avril 2012 - 04:31 .
Mnementh2230 wrote...
I'm waiting for PAX to confirm, but this is bull****.
The ending is still bull****. It's not "victorious and uplifting" - it's a departure to straight fantasy that insults the intelligent player. It's a direct rip-off of the available endings from Deus Ex, but without any reason to accept it as valid. It's full of plot holes, and provides no closure. None of our actions up to that point make the slightest bit of different, and it's exactly what we were told we *WOULD NOT* get (an A/B/C ending).
Bioware, this ending is ruining your reputation among your fans.
Leave it alone at your peril - you will lose customers over this, and you will eventually be dissolved as a studio to feed EA's sports division (and their massive employee turnover). Do you want that? No. Do we want that? No. Fix the damn endings.
durasteel wrote...
The ending was not "fine." Even if you discount the many detailed arguments, many of which have been presented in an accessible video format, which specify the ways in which it lacked narrative cohesion, failed to address the central conflict and central theme of the story that had unfolded in the game and across the trilogy, and was riddles with plot holes and internal contradictions, you cannot avoid the fundamental truth that it failed in the sense that it has alienated many fans of the franchise.
My criticism was constructive, and so was that of most of us. With few exceptions, we have pointed out the shortcomings of the existing ending in ways that make it easy to avoid similar missteps in the future. People really only began to suggest specific story elements when that feedback was expressly asked for by BioWare representatives, and even than many or most of us were clear that we didn't want to write the ending ourselves, we wanted a coherent, BioWare-class ending. The reason that the ending so completely fails is at least in part because BioWare has set a standard for their stories that is quite high--they're good at this, which makes an abysmally poor ending like this unacceptable.
We paid $60/100$ for a complete BioWare game. What we got was a BioWare game with a what-the-hell-was-that ending where we all secretly wish it was just a bad dream. It is perfectly reasonable to demand that the developer finish the product as advertised and maintain a certain level of quality if it wishes to continue to enjoy our pre-order and launch-day patronage.
What makes your entire argument so obnoxious and infantile is that you seem to be insisting that we should just continue to buy everything with a BioWare logo on it without demanding that those products consistently meet the level of quality and entertainment value that caused us to be customers and fans in the first place. You have failed and continue to fail to understand the "retake" effort for what it is:
We're giving BioWare a chance.
The alternative, in the real world which you seem unable to live in, would be to say "well, that sucked, and I'm done." All the people you see on the forums who disliked the endings would be gone, and until they managed to re-establish some artistic credibility BioWare games would release with very tepid numbers as customers very reasonably waited to see whether each game would present another deadline-rushed mess. If the game was well reviewed by actual players, sales would pick up... but the pre-order and collector's edition numbers would not be making the company very happy at all.
Because we are genuine fans, we're not rushing to that point. We're communicating clearly what BioWare can do to avoid that, to keep us per-ordering their games and collector's editions, to preserve their artistic credibility. If that's not constructive, what is?
For you to come into a thread like this and start your name-calling and snide pejorative assertions only underscores the clear fact that you don't understand what the hell you're talking about. Either you have never bothered to think about this issue before hammering your ignorant opinion out on your keyboard, or you simply lack the capacity to understand it except in the oversimplified, unsophisticated terms in which you frame your "argument." Which one is it?
The vast majority of the reaction to the ending was review bombings and forum spam. Every time someone claims to enjoy the ending there are 50 people waiting to call them a troll and chase them off the forums. You people really don't deserve to have your conduct validated in any way, and in any other facet of life it wouldn't be. I'm sorry, but you can't claim very few rational people in your camp as the majority just because you think it validates you. This collective effort from all of you deserves to be ignored because of how it was conducted.What makes your entire argument so obnoxious and infantile is that you seem to be insisting that we should just continue to buy everything with a BioWare logo on it without demanding that those products consistently meet the level of quality and entertainment value that caused us to be customers and fans in the first place. You have failed and continue to fail to understand the "retake" effort for what it is:
I've discussed the issue in other threads and it is HARDLY the monstrosity you all make it out to be. In the end your attempts at being constructive are overwhelmed and ultimately made irrelevant by your complete lack of emotional levity. Even in this post where you're "trying" to come off as rational and constructive you make broad assertions about the quality of the ending based on nothing. I've read the articles and seen the videos as well, so don't bother linking them.The alternative, in the real world which you seem unable to live in, would be to say "well, that sucked, and I'm done." All the people you see on the forums who disliked the endings would be gone, and until they managed to re-establish some artistic credibility BioWare games would release with very tepid numbers as customers very reasonably waited to see whether each game would present another deadline-rushed mess. If the game was well reviewed by actual players, sales would pick up... but the pre-order and collector's edition numbers would not be making the company very happy at all.
Because we are genuine fans, we're not rushing to that point. We're communicating clearly what BioWare can do to avoid that, to keep us per-ordering their games and collector's editions, to preserve their artistic credibility. If that's not constructive, what is?
For you to come into a thread like this and start your name-calling and snide pejorative assertions only underscores the clear fact that you don't understand what the hell you're talking about. Either you have never bothered to think about this issue before hammering your ignorant opinion out on your keyboard, or you simply lack the capacity to understand it except in the oversimplified, unsophisticated terms in which you fram your "argument." Which one is it?
also seconded and signed.doozer12 wrote...
durasteel wrote...
The ending was not "fine." Even if you discount the many detailed arguments, many of which have been presented in an accessible video format, which specify the ways in which it lacked narrative cohesion, failed to address the central conflict and central theme of the story that had unfolded in the game and across the trilogy, and was riddles with plot holes and internal contradictions, you cannot avoid the fundamental truth that it failed in the sense that it has alienated many fans of the franchise.
My criticism was constructive, and so was that of most of us. With few exceptions, we have pointed out the shortcomings of the existing ending in ways that make it easy to avoid similar missteps in the future. People really only began to suggest specific story elements when that feedback was expressly asked for by BioWare representatives, and even than many or most of us were clear that we didn't want to write the ending ourselves, we wanted a coherent, BioWare-class ending. The reason that the ending so completely fails is at least in part because BioWare has set a standard for their stories that is quite high--they're good at this, which makes an abysmally poor ending like this unacceptable.
We paid $60/100$ for a complete BioWare game. What we got was a BioWare game with a what-the-hell-was-that ending where we all secretly wish it was just a bad dream. It is perfectly reasonable to demand that the developer finish the product as advertised and maintain a certain level of quality if it wishes to continue to enjoy our pre-order and launch-day patronage.
What makes your entire argument so obnoxious and infantile is that you seem to be insisting that we should just continue to buy everything with a BioWare logo on it without demanding that those products consistently meet the level of quality and entertainment value that caused us to be customers and fans in the first place. You have failed and continue to fail to understand the "retake" effort for what it is:
We're giving BioWare a chance.
The alternative, in the real world which you seem unable to live in, would be to say "well, that sucked, and I'm done." All the people you see on the forums who disliked the endings would be gone, and until they managed to re-establish some artistic credibility BioWare games would release with very tepid numbers as customers very reasonably waited to see whether each game would present another deadline-rushed mess. If the game was well reviewed by actual players, sales would pick up... but the pre-order and collector's edition numbers would not be making the company very happy at all.
Because we are genuine fans, we're not rushing to that point. We're communicating clearly what BioWare can do to avoid that, to keep us per-ordering their games and collector's editions, to preserve their artistic credibility. If that's not constructive, what is?
For you to come into a thread like this and start your name-calling and snide pejorative assertions only underscores the clear fact that you don't understand what the hell you're talking about. Either you have never bothered to think about this issue before hammering your ignorant opinion out on your keyboard, or you simply lack the capacity to understand it except in the oversimplified, unsophisticated terms in which you frame your "argument." Which one is it?
^ <_< This. And Signed. Well said.
I'm "older" and all I see the above is a PR statement aimed at crowd control.Iconoclaste wrote...
Generational bias : older people generally accept more easily than younger people the notions of "ending", for obvious reasons... But that shall never, never give elders any autority to impose such things as sacrifice, surrender faith or hope upon the younger generations. It just looks like the world we live in : younger generations forced to make hearthbreaking choices because past generations just did not care for the future like they cared for themselves.BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
chuckwells62 wrote...
Ray Muzyka (co-founder/Bioware): “I just finished an end to end playthrough, for me the ending was the most satisfying of any game I’ve ever played….the decisions you make in this game are epic,” “The team has been planning for this for years, since the beginning of the Mass Effect franchise. Largely the same team, most of the same leads have worked on this for years and years. They’ve thought about [the ending] for years and years. It’s not something they’ve had to solve in a week or a month even, but over the course of five or ten years.”
Wow. I honestly forgot about that statement. I wish I could have had his reaction.
Joykilledme wrote...
Mnementh2230 wrote...
I'm waiting for PAX to confirm, but this is bull****.
The ending is still bull****. It's not "victorious and uplifting" - it's a departure to straight fantasy that insults the intelligent player. It's a direct rip-off of the available endings from Deus Ex, but without any reason to accept it as valid. It's full of plot holes, and provides no closure. None of our actions up to that point make the slightest bit of different, and it's exactly what we were told we *WOULD NOT* get (an A/B/C ending).
Bioware, this ending is ruining your reputation among your fans.
Leave it alone at your peril - you will lose customers over this, and you will eventually be dissolved as a studio to feed EA's sports division (and their massive employee turnover). Do you want that? No. Do we want that? No. Fix the damn endings.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
guvnordisney wrote...
Daniel Gonzalez from EA Latin America is either going to be seriously reprimanded or fired for making an "official" statement before EA or, more importantly, BioWare. It is especially stupid considering his statement contradicts Ray Muzyka's earlier statement that more news would be coming later this month. Gonzalez is an idiot. Don't believe anything until you hear it straight from BioWare, Edmonton.
Modifié par Chanvree, 03 avril 2012 - 04:37 .
SlyTF1 wrote...
As long as the indoctrination theory is right and I get the ending where Shepard breathes once, and he actually lives, I'm fine with it. And Shepard had damn well better be on the Normandy when it crashes on that planet. If my squad is stranded on a God forsaken island planet to starve to deth, by hell we all starve to death TOGETHER!!!
It's scattered throughout the thread, people saying they won't believe it because it's specifically a Mexican newspaper or that it's in Spanish. It's really weird. I understand not believing it because you've never heard of the paper, you have doubts EA's other arms know what they're talking about, and/or you'd rather hear it directly from BioWare--but not because it's specifically from Mexico. It's odd to me because I don't remember the sexbox controversy coming from that country.Sarevok Synder wrote...
Huh?M25105 wrote...
Look, I want the ending to change too. But the racism here in this thread is disgusting.
guvnordisney wrote...
Daniel Gonzalez from EA Latin America is either going to be seriously reprimanded or fired for making an "official" statement before EA or, more importantly, BioWare. It is especially stupid considering his statement contradicts Ray Muzyka's earlier statement that more news would be coming later this month. Gonzalez is an idiot. Don't believe anything until you hear it straight from BioWare, Edmonton.
Kitedtk wrote...
Giga... just stop... please just stop. You're making yourself ridiculous now. The points your trying to raise are rather silly... Also... if the ratio of like and dislike of the ending is 1:50... then quite clearly... it's a bad ending...
The games ending was a mockery of what the entire series stood for.
The Angry One wrote...
BREAKING NEWS: An EA PR guy who wouldn't KNOW anything (and would be under an NDA if he did) tows the company line.
THIS JUST IN: Scientists confirm that rain is wet.
So, you support the "bad endings" to "punish" the people who expressed their feelings?Gigamantis wrote...
This thread isn't about the quality of the ending, though, it's discussing what is perceived to be Bioware's decision on this matter. I support it because I liked the ending and because of the horrible way the fans conducted themselves, and I'm talking about the majority of you.
guvnordisney wrote...
Daniel Gonzalez from EA Latin America is either going to be seriously reprimanded or fired for making an "official" statement before EA or, more importantly, BioWare. It is especially stupid considering his statement contradicts Ray Muzyka's earlier statement that more news would be coming later this month. Gonzalez is an idiot. Don't believe anything until you hear it straight from BioWare, Edmonton.
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