1158 réponses à ce sujet

[Redban103]

yeah there seems to be confusion about a new ending all together and changes/additions. They're obviously not going to scrap the ending and replace it and they shouldn't for the sake of integrity, but additions are definitely needed on this one, something reasonable to do in the least rather than leave too many unsatisfied and boycotting future games.

Modifié par Redban103, 03 avril 2012 - 05:46 .

[DJCaptainPicard]

the red boon wrote...

I'm not buying a clarification dlc I'll just forget mass effect if they want to justify star child and three preset endings.

Right.  And you can be sure I won't be interested in any other games they release in the Mass Effect universe.

[Gigamantis]

Giga, let me ask you a simple, direct question. Do you think the ending
as it stands now is a fitting conclusion to the rest of the series?

Do
you think it fits the theme of all three games? Do you think it
satisfies the plot? Do you think it satisfies the premise of choices
affecting the outcome?

If you think it does, I would love to here
you justification. If you agree that it does not, than you agree that
the ending is broken and does not work as it is. If you agree the ending
is broken, but do not want it fixed, why not? Because you're frustrated
with people on the forums that want it fixed?

All we're asking
for is a fitting conclusion. We are not specifying how that conclusion
be reached. We have suggestions, but not demands. The developers are
free to ignore our suggestions. We are free to pass on their next
product if we don't like what they come up with. It's as simple as that.

I do think it was a fitting conclusion to the series.  It fits the theme of the first 2 games and adds some new open-ended content to the resolution.  The crucible and the catalyst could've used some more foundation but were interesting, and the choices you had to make at the end were very difficult and emotionally heavy.  I liked the ending way more than ME2's and it's close with ME1's. 

I wasn't really expecting a happy ending to all of this and my choices provided enough variety for me.  I didn't want a rainbow and a dance contest at the end of it like a lot of you did; multiple heavy handed endings were fine for me.

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

The fix is unnecessary and undeserved.  They chose how they wanted to end their story and that should be the size of it, especially given the tone of Bioware's horrendous fans. 

I understand completely why Bioware isn't changing the ending, and it's also quite simple ... There's nothing more demeaning as an artist than having your work tainted by the lowest common denominator.  If Mass Effect were my universe and my creation I would definitely have my own vision for it's ending and none of your grubby little mits would touch it.

You overestimate your power to "ruin" Bioware over this.  You're only upsetting yourself and wasting words if you think the industry should hand creative control to a bunch of kids on a forum.  Writers don't generally take requests.  

Giga i would firstly like to point that most of what you are doing is insulting the people who are expressing their opinion and their hope, not demand, but hope that the endings get redone. Also the entire argument for artisctic integrity doesn't work very well after they break most of the promises they made about the climax pf the game and all the countless promises of choices mattering.

we can all be happy that you are merely another poster on the forum and not someone with any control over Bioware.

And as for our power to ruin Bioware. I've said several times, the only power we have is to make a point by ceasing to be patrons of Bioware. Also what is wrong with asking that a company deliver a certain kind of product? I think so many fans providing for the most part contructive and critical feedback is a good thing.

I haven't insulted anyone and clearly I don't want the ending redone in this context.  I don't want half-hearted work that's outside the scope of their vision forced out of them, because that's horribly unfair and bound to be crap.  MOST of you aren't suggesting, you're not even demanding, you're flat attempting to extort.  It's gone from review bombs to chasing off everyone who admits to liking the ending in the forums. It really has been a concerted effort to sabotage the game, but sales have still been good regardless.

If MOST of the feedback had been constructive I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.  That's not even close to being the case, though.  It's been a rather blatant and depressing attempt to sabotage the game, and while it was still a failure it didn't earn this community much respect.

Okay, we are never going to see eye to eye and quite frankly i'd rather not see eye to eye with you. But i again feel the need to respond. I'm not saying they should spend a few weeks to make something half-hearted... i'm perfectly fine with waiting for a few months, even half a year for them to do the project properly. And what i'm asking them to do is by no means of of the scope of their project. It is entirely within what was always promised to us their clients and fans. That's an important word. Client... we are their clients... we paid them money for a certain product... If the product was not delivered as was advertised... we have a right to say that and to ask that the correct product be delivered...

I'm not trying to sabotage Bioware... i'm simply saying please deliver what you promised. If not, hey it was fun, but i can't trust you anymore.
If you view the attempts of thousands of fans to get their views and hopes across as depressing... then i feel sorry for you.

[Captain Arty]

Redban103 wrote...

yeah there seems to be confusion about a new ending all together and changes/additions. They're obviously not going to scrap the ending and replace it and they shouldn't, but additions are definitely needed on this one, something reasonable to do in the least rather than leave too many unsatisfied.

Why don't you think they should fix the ending? Honest question. If you're okay with them making changes to ending and the rest of the game for clarification or explanation, why not change it at the root of the problem, the intriduction of the star-kid? I guess what I'm asking it what is fundamentally different about "additions" and "changes?"

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis can think what he wants, that's not the point.

If Bioware can "fix" the endings, why do so many who claim that the "endings were good", and support that opinion with the fact that "Bioware is a creative bunch" and such, yet can't seem to understand that "fixing the endings" would be done by the same "creative bunch", which in itself should be a satisfying assumption as to the quality of the "fix".

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 03 avril 2012 - 05:52 .

[The_Duke75]

 

González: Game sales in Mexico have not been affected, Mass Effect's rich story is comparable to Lord of the Rings, it's one of BioWare's key franchises, there's much creative freedom, and the ending was the best they could find. "You cannot please them all," he said.

ROFLMAO

Give that guy a medal, he just called the writers a bunch of incompetent monkeys.

They have until PAX. If by then I don't get an answer to the various issues the "vocal minority" has and a confirmation that the clarification DLC will be for free, kthxbai. I'm not paying for something that should have been in the game from the start.

[Thetri]

Looks like I'm heading to the liquor store today.

[Myrmedus]

Gigamantis wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Versidious wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

This thread isn't about the quality of the ending, though, it's discussing what is perceived to be Bioware's decision on this matter. I support it because I liked the ending and because of the horrible way the fans conducted themselves, and I'm talking about the majority of you.

So, you support the "bad endings" to "punish" the people who expressed their feelings?

You miss the part where I said I liked the ending?  I support the good ending because I like it and I support Bioware's decision to disregard tantrums because I don't like tantrums.  If you had all been constructive and reasonable I'd probably want you to get some kind of new ending just because I was impressed with the community.  This place is a cesspool, though.  

I think you're being a bit harsh, there. Most of the people I've seen come and make a single post about how they loved the series, but the endings spoiled it for them, and then post nothing further. Most anti-enders I've seen will be polite to pro-enders until the pro-enders do something like call them immature, entitled, or the like. Both of which are fairly insulting, even if used passively. No doubt that the review bombers are over-emotional, but condemning a group because of the actions of their worst? That's the kind of thinking that leads to people hating Muslims because of Islamic extremists.

You of course can't please everyone, but you *can* please most people in a game, simply by having sufficient variety, so that the odds are that at least one ending will be close to the prefered emotional resonance of any one individual. Bioware promised that both implictly (via the endings of their other games) and explicitly (via press statements and interviews), and did not deliver on it. Yes, the more immature people are more likely to behave badly, because they're young and hormonal etc, but there are plenty of us adult players who are unhappy, waited to see if we'd feel better about the endings the next day, then a few days later, but found no catharsis in the end. And so we've come to campaign for the ending we feel is worthy of what was arguably the most promising sci-fi epic this century so far (it is of course early years, yet!). Please don't be put off by the fact that there *are* some vocal ****s in this community, because there are, and they are on both sides.

But that's the rub. You CAN please everyone here by crafting the actual ange of endings promised and implied. Almost every complaint would go away if: the ridiculous teleporting character things was mitigated by in game cutscenes, if there was an actual RANGE of endings thatw as promised and implied including the ones present, and if harbinger replaced the catalyst, meaning the reapers were actually scary again.

It is really that simple. Give players what they wanted and were told they were going to get, and then they will continue to buy your products and you will keep your jobs and financial security. People act like there is some giant mystical barrier that can't be opened for compromise to be reached. It's bullcrap. Pay for new ending content and ameliorate that cost by making further DLC and fixing the rampant bugs that game has. It's really that cut and dried and the only obstacle is spending money and the willingness to do it.

Being in game design, I'm keenly aware of how much it's going to cost. I'm also keenly aware that if BW wants to survive as brand and a company long term, this is something they HAVE to do. The issue is not nearly as complicated as people are making it. The methodology to fixing it actually rather plain.

The ONLY issue are: is EA willing to spend the money now and is BW willing to craft new content. The end. It is really that simple.

The fix is unnecessary and undeserved.  They chose how they wanted to end their story and that should be the size of it, especially given the tone of Bioware's horrendous fans. 

I understand completely why Bioware isn't changing the ending, and it's also quite simple ... There's nothing more demeaning as an artist than having your work tainted by the lowest common denominator.  If Mass Effect were my universe and my creation I would definitely have my own vision for it's ending and none of your grubby little mits would touch it.

You overestimate your power to "ruin" Bioware over this.  You're only upsetting yourself and wasting words if you think the industry should hand creative control to a bunch of kids on a forum.  Writers don't generally take requests.  

Then you're definitely not an artist and have absolutely no idea what creating art is about.

Anyone who has actually worked their ass off producing and improving their art would know that an integral part of it is having to chop and change it. Any artist who sits there and says "My art is simply too good for you philistines" is a crap artist trying to hide their ineptitude behind superiority because they never would've developed as an artist in the first place. Noone gets popped out of their mother's womb able to produce masterpieces. It is a long, drawn out process of improving, critiquing, being criticized, making amendments, improving, critiquing etc.

There's a reason they say to be a good artist you need to have thick skin: this is why. And noone, no matter how good, is above the criticism that comes with the production of art - noone on this planet can ever say "I don't have more to learn" or "I can't improve my work."

Artists make retroactive changes to works all the time, and they incorporate any criticism they've taken into future works as well, it's what is required to improve and be as good as you can be in art. Why? Because art is not produced in a vacuum. If alot of people think what you produced is crap, in the art world, it is crap.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 03 avril 2012 - 05:55 .

[N0-Future]

I cant wait to see how BioWare "Fix" this.... Should be good for a laugh if nothing else.

Modifié par N0-Future, 03 avril 2012 - 05:54 .

[Good_Chaos7]

Ending CAN be Changed.

[Kitedtk]

Just to clarify for Giga... i feel the need to quickly post how i'd change the end... i would completely throw out the catalyst part of it... they'd bring the crucible into the sol system, It manages to dock with the citadel... and nothing happens... nothing at all... the crucible was a trap to get the races into one place to wipe them out... Then the final battle begins... the troops on the ground are rallied, the space ships are formed into the fleet and the final desperate battle begins with the cry of "we will not go quietly into the night!" Then if you have enough ar assets you get one of several endings... the best of which would be that you actually manage to win and your team survives... the fleet took losses the ground forces were damaged,,, especially in this epic battle with harbinger near the beam... But you win...
and then the ending is done as a narration piece with backdrops and text... someone doing narration for it... and into that text format it would be easy to put all the different effects your choices had... then maybe right at the end a short cutscene of shep with his Love Interest... if he had on...

just felt i wanted to put that as simply my idea of what i'd have liked to see... not what i'm demanding but simply what i'd think would have maybe been better...

because in this the important thing is that the galaxy was united... everyone stood together in this most dire of hours... no ground was given... The bond that united everyone was strong enough...

[Iconoclaste]

It is my opinion that players are perfectly justified, or in other words, "entitled" to project or suggest "endings" they would enjoy. There would be no point in just saying "the endings suck" without giving any hint to the developers as to what was expected.

In fact, that would just be "ranting", and it would further justify criticism from the ones who "liked the endings" without giving away their arguments. I completely understand why some of the "likers" would prefer "ranting" to the justified expression of unsatisfied expectations.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 03 avril 2012 - 06:05 .

[Gigamantis]

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

The fix is unnecessary and undeserved.  They chose how they wanted to end their story and that should be the size of it, especially given the tone of Bioware's horrendous fans. 

I understand completely why Bioware isn't changing the ending, and it's also quite simple ... There's nothing more demeaning as an artist than having your work tainted by the lowest common denominator.  If Mass Effect were my universe and my creation I would definitely have my own vision for it's ending and none of your grubby little mits would touch it.

You overestimate your power to "ruin" Bioware over this.  You're only upsetting yourself and wasting words if you think the industry should hand creative control to a bunch of kids on a forum.  Writers don't generally take requests.  

Giga i would firstly like to point that most of what you are doing is insulting the people who are expressing their opinion and their hope, not demand, but hope that the endings get redone. Also the entire argument for artisctic integrity doesn't work very well after they break most of the promises they made about the climax pf the game and all the countless promises of choices mattering.

we can all be happy that you are merely another poster on the forum and not someone with any control over Bioware.

And as for our power to ruin Bioware. I've said several times, the only power we have is to make a point by ceasing to be patrons of Bioware. Also what is wrong with asking that a company deliver a certain kind of product? I think so many fans providing for the most part contructive and critical feedback is a good thing.

I haven't insulted anyone and clearly I don't want the ending redone in this context.  I don't want half-hearted work that's outside the scope of their vision forced out of them, because that's horribly unfair and bound to be crap.  MOST of you aren't suggesting, you're not even demanding, you're flat attempting to extort.  It's gone from review bombs to chasing off everyone who admits to liking the ending in the forums. It really has been a concerted effort to sabotage the game, but sales have still been good regardless.

If MOST of the feedback had been constructive I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.  That's not even close to being the case, though.  It's been a rather blatant and depressing attempt to sabotage the game, and while it was still a failure it didn't earn this community much respect.

Okay, we are never going to see eye to eye and quite frankly i'd rather not see eye to eye with you. But i again feel the need to respond. I'm not saying they should spend a few weeks to make something half-hearted... i'm perfectly fine with waiting for a few months, even half a year for them to do the project properly. And what i'm asking them to do is by no means of of the scope of their project. It is entirely within what was always promised to us their clients and fans. That's an important word. Client... we are their clients... we paid them money for a certain product... If the product was not delivered as was advertised... we have a right to say that and to ask that the correct product be delivered...

I'm not trying to sabotage Bioware... i'm simply saying please deliver what you promised. If not, hey it was fun, but i can't trust you anymore.
If you view the attempts of thousands of fans to get their views and hopes across as depressing... then i feel sorry for you.

I think you're missing the point.  It's not that they wouldn't have enough time it's that these are changes they don't want to make.  If this is how they wanted to end THEIR series then forcing them to change it will result in bitter and half-hearted work.  It will be garbage, even if you give them years to develope it because they won't believe in it.  It won't be what they wanted for their world. 

Opinions are one thing but too many of you are trying to force them through internet bully tactics.  If more of you had just handled this better then Bioware may have been happy to release some continuation on THEIR ORIGINAL ending.  A new ending should never happen, though.  

[mrcanada]

Dorrieb wrote...

 There is an article in today's (2nd April) newspaper Reforma in Mexico about the ME3 ending controversy. 

Daniel Gonzalez, director of marketing and public relations for EA Latin America, says that they will release no DLC with a different ending. There will be a DLC to better explain the details of the ending, but the ending will remain the same.

Regarding the future of the franchise, he declared that ME3 was the end of Shepard but not the end of the game, and promised that news about more DLC would be forthcoming in two weeks' time.

I don't think that leaves an awful lot of room for interpretation. For anyone who was hoping for a different ending and not a clarification of the dreadful current one, it doesn't look good. 

EDIT: 

Occulo wrote...

Reforma does have an article dated April 2nd on their site (and as a PDF too), but you have to be a subscriber to see it. The title is "Exigen mejor final para Mass Effect 3" or "[They] demand a better ending for Mass Effect 3".

Anyone who's already subscribed to the newspaper but doesn't have an online account can make an account for free. If OP could do this and upload the PDF for us or take screenshots of the article, or something...

I couldn't find my subscription number to get in, but I did take a quick picture:

Already confirmed to be an untrue statement or a misquote.  DLC is incoming, whether it is free and in patch form or paid, it is coming.  Deny it if you want and that's cool, just make the indoctrination all the more effective when you realize the truth.

[warrior256]

Well it has been fun Bioware, but if this is how you are going to treat your best customers after all of these years, then we are done. I'll buy your "clarification" dlc because the series deserves it, but we are through. I think I'll head to Bethesda. I bet if there was this kind of uproar over Skyrims ending then they would have changed it...

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

I think you're missing the point.  It's not that they wouldn't have enough time it's that these are changes they don't want to make. If this is how they wanted to end THEIR series then forcing them to change it will result in bitter and half-hearted work. It will be garbage, even if you give them years to develope it because they won't believe in it. It's not what they wanted for their world. 

Opinions are one thing but too many of you are trying to force them through internet bully tactics.  If more of you had just handled this better then Bioware may have been happy to release some continuation on THEIR ORIGINAL ending.  A new ending should never happen, though. 

Speculation.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 03 avril 2012 - 06:14 .

[Glickmania]

The_Duke75 wrote...

 

González: Game sales in Mexico have not been affected, Mass Effect's rich story is comparable to Lord of the Rings, it's one of BioWare's key franchises, there's much creative freedom, and the ending was the best they could find. "You cannot please them all," he said.

ROFLMAO

Give that guy a medal, he just called the writers a bunch of incompetent monkeys.

He really didn't.  He's on Bioware's side and he happens to be right in that, "You cannot please them all."

It can be viewed as you did but you'd be ignoring where he called the story rich.  It would also be reading it as sarcasm.

[panzerwzh]

Hah, what a relief.
If this statement is true, Bioware you are dead to me. R.I.P.
Everything has its ending, I'm only feel sad that ending for mass effect in real world/my mind is such an ugly one.

[Glickmania]

warrior256 wrote...

Well it has been fun Bioware, but if this is how you are going to treat your best customers after all of these years, then we are done. I'll buy your "clarification" dlc because the series deserves it, but we are through. I think I'll head to Bethesda. I bet if there was this kind of uproar over Skyrims ending then they would have changed it...

You need to read the whole post.  It did say more DLC is coming and there will be some clarification in it.  Just not a new ending.

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

I think you're missing the point.  It's not that they wouldn't have enough time it's that these are changes they don't want to make.  If this is how they wanted to end THEIR series then forcing them to change it will result in bitter and half-hearted work.  It will be garbage, even if you give them years to develope it because they won't believe in it.  It won't be what they wanted for their world. 

Opinions are one thing but too many of you are trying to force them through internet bully tactics.  If more of you had just handled this better then Bioware may have been happy to release some continuation on THEIR ORIGINAL ending.  A new ending should never happen, though.  

Ok once again. why on earth are you under the impression that no one else has the right to comment or make demands of other peoples work? do youhave any idea how the world works... do you think artists can just make whatever they feel like? No they can't
And as for the not believing in it, from the quality of the current ending it's already clear that the makes did not Care or Believe in their game...

Again, how is anything we are doing or saying bullying? how is saying that i'm prepared cease giving Bioware my money bullying? It's making a point, it's saying, if you don't make the ending you promised. i'll go buy games from people who deliver on their promises...
and as for their original ending... well judging by most of the fan reaction... it wasn't very good... when people in the real world make something that's not very good, and in this case seems to be quite bad... most people rather sensibly demand it be fixed...
example... go to a restaurant and order some steak... if you get a very bad tasting and horribly falvored steak... would you defend the cooks integrity by saying it's his original work... No You'd say... take this away and bring me a better one.

[Gigamantis]

panzerwzh wrote...

Hah, what a relief.
If this statement is true, Bioware you are dead to me. R.I.P.
Everything has its ending, I'm only feel sad that ending for mass effect in real world/my mind is such an ugly one.

I'm starting a retake mass effect movement.  Would you like to send me money,  lololololol

Gullible, emotional children are so fun to observe. 

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

panzerwzh wrote...

Hah, what a relief.
If this statement is true, Bioware you are dead to me. R.I.P.
Everything has its ending, I'm only feel sad that ending for mass effect in real world/my mind is such an ugly one.

I'm starting a retake mass effect movement.  Would you like to send me money,  lololololol

Gullible, emotional children are so fun to observe. 

please stop insulting people. you've been asked this before... just please be polite and stop belittling people.

[thinicer]

Prepare yourselves for disappointment, and then it will be time to move on and make the decision to never buy another Bioware product again.

Although I'm sure that a Mass Effect 4 would sell very well regardless.