1158 réponses à ce sujet

[McAllyster]

I'll wait until PAX.

But my hope is very weak now...

[panzerwzh]

Gigamantis wrote...

panzerwzh wrote...

Hah, what a relief.
If this statement is true, Bioware you are dead to me. R.I.P.
Everything has its ending, I'm only feel sad that ending for mass effect in real world/my mind is such an ugly one.

I'm starting a retake mass effect movement.  Would you like to send me money,  lololololol

Gullible, emotional children are so fun to observe. 

Good for u. Obivous troll is obvious.

[Gigamantis]

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I think you're missing the point.  It's not that they wouldn't have enough time it's that these are changes they don't want to make.  If this is how they wanted to end THEIR series then forcing them to change it will result in bitter and half-hearted work.  It will be garbage, even if you give them years to develope it because they won't believe in it.  It won't be what they wanted for their world. 

Opinions are one thing but too many of you are trying to force them through internet bully tactics.  If more of you had just handled this better then Bioware may have been happy to release some continuation on THEIR ORIGINAL ending.  A new ending should never happen, though.  

Ok once again. why on earth are you under the impression that no one else has the right to comment or make demands of other peoples work? do youhave any idea how the world works... do you think artists can just make whatever they feel like? No they can't
And as for the not believing in it, from the quality of the current ending it's already clear that the makes did not Care or Believe in their game...

Again, how is anything we are doing or saying bullying? how is saying that i'm prepared cease giving Bioware my money bullying? It's making a point, it's saying, if you don't make the ending you promised. i'll go buy games from people who deliver on their promises...
and as for their original ending... well judging by most of the fan reaction... it wasn't very good... when people in the real world make something that's not very good, and in this case seems to be quite bad... most people rather sensibly demand it be fixed...
example... go to a restaurant and order some steak... if you get a very bad tasting and horribly falvored steak... would you defend the cooks integrity by saying it's his original work... No You'd say... take this away and bring me a better one.

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

[Iconoclaste]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I'll wait before I explode over this, but I want to know what their "clarification" is going to be. If they plan on "clarifying" why I'm stranded on Earth and my crew is on Gilligan's Planet...no thanks.

From another thread...

ImmovableMover wrote...

Clarification, on its own, is little more than a poorly veiled insult. It implies that we only didn't like the ending because we couldn't understand its genius, things we THINK are plot holes aren't plot holes, they're just so complex that your tiny consumer brain can't fathom how much sense it makes. It's patronizing and dripping with hubris, as if they couldn't have possibly made mistakes or errors.

[Gigamantis]

panzerwzh wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

panzerwzh wrote...

Hah, what a relief.
If this statement is true, Bioware you are dead to me. R.I.P.
Everything has its ending, I'm only feel sad that ending for mass effect in real world/my mind is such an ugly one.

I'm starting a retake mass effect movement.  Would you like to send me money,  lololololol

Gullible, emotional children are so fun to observe. 

Good for u. Obivous troll is obvious.

You're a troll ya know?  Threatening to leave when nobody will know or care, and odds are you'll be amongst the first to buy the next game they release.  I look forward to chatting with you about how awesome DA3 is. 

[Alent]

Iconoclaste wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I'll wait before I explode over this, but I want to know what their "clarification" is going to be. If they plan on "clarifying" why I'm stranded on Earth and my crew is on Gilligan's Planet...no thanks.

From another thread...

ImmovableMover wrote...

Clarification, on its own, is little more than a poorly veiled insult. It implies that we only didn't like the ending because we couldn't understand its genius, things we THINK are plot holes aren't plot holes, they're just so complex that your tiny consumer brain can't fathom how much sense it makes. It's patronizing and dripping with hubris, as if they couldn't have possibly made mistakes or errors.

Quoted for truth.  If they do not make a change I will not buy another BioWare product again.  I already broke my anti-Origin oath for them, never again if they play it like this.

Gigamantis wrote...
I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.

No one has tried to tell you to leave, while discussions have gotten heated the most simple thing for those who prefer the current ending to do is simply not download the (probably never going to be released) DLC.  There is no need to flame people who want the ending changed.

Gigamantis wrote...  
Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them.

I disagree, I believe they have offered plenty of reasoned, constructive criticism - I'm not sure how you think people are trying to sabatoge the game.  If you think criticism is sabotage then I think you need to take a look at a dictionary.  These fans are criticising because they love the franchise, not because they wish it to go away.  If BioWare chooses to take a stand against it's fans, thats it's perogative, but in general not likely to be a very profitable move.

Gigamantis wrote... 
Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it. 

Commander Shepard is disappointed with you for over generalizing.

Modifié par Alent, 03 avril 2012 - 06:24 .

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Generalizations, exagerations, speculation.

[PrinceLionheart]

Alent wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I'll wait before I explode over this, but I want to know what their "clarification" is going to be. If they plan on "clarifying" why I'm stranded on Earth and my crew is on Gilligan's Planet...no thanks.

From another thread...

ImmovableMover wrote...

Clarification, on its own, is little more than a poorly veiled insult. It implies that we only didn't like the ending because we couldn't understand its genius, things we THINK are plot holes aren't plot holes, they're just so complex that your tiny consumer brain can't fathom how much sense it makes. It's patronizing and dripping with hubris, as if they couldn't have possibly made mistakes or errors.

Quoted for truth.  If they do not make a change I will not buy another BioWare product again.  I already broke my anti-Origin oath for them, never again if they play it like this.

Same here. My interest in another bioware title ends here. DA2 already made me question them, but this ending fiasco is the last straw.

[Disciple888]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I think you're missing the point.  It's not that they wouldn't have enough time it's that these are changes they don't want to make.  If this is how they wanted to end THEIR series then forcing them to change it will result in bitter and half-hearted work.  It will be garbage, even if you give them years to develope it because they won't believe in it.  It won't be what they wanted for their world. 

Opinions are one thing but too many of you are trying to force them through internet bully tactics.  If more of you had just handled this better then Bioware may have been happy to release some continuation on THEIR ORIGINAL ending.  A new ending should never happen, though.  

Ok once again. why on earth are you under the impression that no one else has the right to comment or make demands of other peoples work? do youhave any idea how the world works... do you think artists can just make whatever they feel like? No they can't
And as for the not believing in it, from the quality of the current ending it's already clear that the makes did not Care or Believe in their game...

Again, how is anything we are doing or saying bullying? how is saying that i'm prepared cease giving Bioware my money bullying? It's making a point, it's saying, if you don't make the ending you promised. i'll go buy games from people who deliver on their promises...
and as for their original ending... well judging by most of the fan reaction... it wasn't very good... when people in the real world make something that's not very good, and in this case seems to be quite bad... most people rather sensibly demand it be fixed...
example... go to a restaurant and order some steak... if you get a very bad tasting and horribly falvored steak... would you defend the cooks integrity by saying it's his original work... No You'd say... take this away and bring me a better one.

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

"internet bullying" oh lawd

[GrIzZlY_]

i dont trust newspapers anyway ....

Modifié par GrIzZlY_, 03 avril 2012 - 06:22 .

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I think you're missing the point.  It's not that they wouldn't have enough time it's that these are changes they don't want to make.  If this is how they wanted to end THEIR series then forcing them to change it will result in bitter and half-hearted work.  It will be garbage, even if you give them years to develope it because they won't believe in it.  It won't be what they wanted for their world. 

Opinions are one thing but too many of you are trying to force them through internet bully tactics.  If more of you had just handled this better then Bioware may have been happy to release some continuation on THEIR ORIGINAL ending.  A new ending should never happen, though.  

Ok once again. why on earth are you under the impression that no one else has the right to comment or make demands of other peoples work? do youhave any idea how the world works... do you think artists can just make whatever they feel like? No they can't
And as for the not believing in it, from the quality of the current ending it's already clear that the makes did not Care or Believe in their game...

Again, how is anything we are doing or saying bullying? how is saying that i'm prepared cease giving Bioware my money bullying? It's making a point, it's saying, if you don't make the ending you promised. i'll go buy games from people who deliver on their promises...
and as for their original ending... well judging by most of the fan reaction... it wasn't very good... when people in the real world make something that's not very good, and in this case seems to be quite bad... most people rather sensibly demand it be fixed...
example... go to a restaurant and order some steak... if you get a very bad tasting and horribly falvored steak... would you defend the cooks integrity by saying it's his original work... No You'd say... take this away and bring me a better one.

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Please... never again refer to me as your friend... please... don't do that...
i'm not chasing you off. i'm trying to make points and show you why i'm dissatisfied with what was delivered.
also... how do you know it was review bombing? maybe those people just expressed their honest opinion.
internet bullying... or just people expressing opinion? i'd got with the latter.

again, i've made several points on how "my" side has been very constructive, made several good points, even sent in suggestions and theories in an attempt to show bioware ideas for developing what we'd see as a proper ending... i even posted one in this thread like 20 minutes ago or so. Meeting the demands of their fans would be the very epitomy of integrity...

you are yet again insulting people... please don't do that... this is the third time i've asked you to stop belittling people. Have you ever wondered why thousands of people who until the release of ME3 were avid and vocal supporters of bioware... yet have suddenly changed their opinion and are now saying that they should deliver their promises... i'm thinking there might be some cause there...

[Gigamantis]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Generalizations, exagerations, speculation.

Was "you're just one person" a generalization, exaggeration or speculation?  How many people do you think he is?  

[warrior256]

Glickmania wrote...

warrior256 wrote...

Well it has been fun Bioware, but if this is how you are going to treat your best customers after all of these years, then we are done. I'll buy your "clarification" dlc because the series deserves it, but we are through. I think I'll head to Bethesda. I bet if there was this kind of uproar over Skyrims ending then they would have changed it...

You need to read the whole post.  It did say more DLC is coming and there will be some clarification in it.  Just not a new ending.

I did read the whole post. I don't think that clarifying the ending will save it. what is the dlc going to tell us? that the Quarian and Turian fleets starved? That there was a dark age that we still had not recovered from after 10 000 years? That's not what I wanted. I wanted a dlc that made my choices matter, not more spacebrat.

(Sorry about bad spelling BTW. I'm on my phone right now)

[panzerwzh]

thinicer wrote...

Prepare yourselves for disappointment, and then it will be time to move on and make the decision to never buy another Bioware product again.

Although I'm sure that a Mass Effect 4 would sell very well regardless.

Second it. Mass Effect 4 will be such a huge success and “cleanse” Bioware forever, just like COD:MWs did to infinity ward. Long live the "milking" industry!

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Generalizations, exagerations, speculation.

Was "you're just one person" a generalization, exaggeration or speculation?  How many people do you think he is? 

How can someone be "constructive" alone?

[Gigamantis]

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I think you're missing the point.  It's not that they wouldn't have enough time it's that these are changes they don't want to make.  If this is how they wanted to end THEIR series then forcing them to change it will result in bitter and half-hearted work.  It will be garbage, even if you give them years to develope it because they won't believe in it.  It won't be what they wanted for their world. 

Opinions are one thing but too many of you are trying to force them through internet bully tactics.  If more of you had just handled this better then Bioware may have been happy to release some continuation on THEIR ORIGINAL ending.  A new ending should never happen, though.  

Ok once again. why on earth are you under the impression that no one else has the right to comment or make demands of other peoples work? do youhave any idea how the world works... do you think artists can just make whatever they feel like? No they can't
And as for the not believing in it, from the quality of the current ending it's already clear that the makes did not Care or Believe in their game...

Again, how is anything we are doing or saying bullying? how is saying that i'm prepared cease giving Bioware my money bullying? It's making a point, it's saying, if you don't make the ending you promised. i'll go buy games from people who deliver on their promises...
and as for their original ending... well judging by most of the fan reaction... it wasn't very good... when people in the real world make something that's not very good, and in this case seems to be quite bad... most people rather sensibly demand it be fixed...
example... go to a restaurant and order some steak... if you get a very bad tasting and horribly falvored steak... would you defend the cooks integrity by saying it's his original work... No You'd say... take this away and bring me a better one.

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Please... never again refer to me as your friend... please... don't do that...
i'm not chasing you off. i'm trying to make points and show you why i'm dissatisfied with what was delivered.
also... how do you know it was review bombing? maybe those people just expressed their honest opinion.
internet bullying... or just people expressing opinion? i'd got with the latter.

again, i've made several points on how "my" side has been very constructive, made several good points, even sent in suggestions and theories in an attempt to show bioware ideas for developing what we'd see as a proper ending... i even posted one in this thread like 20 minutes ago or so. Meeting the demands of their fans would be the very epitomy of integrity...

you are yet again insulting people... please don't do that... this is the third time i've asked you to stop belittling people. Have you ever wondered why thousands of people who until the release of ME3 were avid and vocal supporters of bioware... yet have suddenly changed their opinion and are now saying that they should deliver their promises... i'm thinking there might be some cause there...

Sorry, friend, but you're just one person and I'm talking about the whole movement to change the ending.  The WHOLE movement.  Not just you or the few other people who have tried to be constructive.  I'm talking about the whole movement.  All of them.  Their review bombings.  Their chasing people off the forums.  The whole movement.  You understand yet, because you keep responding with "I didn't ... I wasn't ... I was trying to."  I'm talking about the whole movement to change the ending.  The collective.  All of them.  There were thousands.  Please tell me you understand what I'm saying to you right now.

The theories on the forums aren't very good and they don't excuse the bully tactics, review bombing and chasing people off the forums.  The whole movement, which means all of them, needs to stop with the internet bully tactics. 

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

Was "you're just one person" a generalization, exaggeration or speculation?  How many people do you think he is?  

I'm 283 people... Look Giga stop being pedantic... it's obvious by his bolding that he was referring to when you said "my movement" look just re read the post and actually pay attention...

[Gigamantis]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Generalizations, exagerations, speculation.

Was "you're just one person" a generalization, exaggeration or speculation?  How many people do you think he is? 

How can someone be "constructive" alone?

By saying or doing sometinbg constructive? 

[Mulberry]

Myrmedus wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Versidious wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

This thread isn't about the quality of the ending, though, it's discussing what is perceived to be Bioware's decision on this matter. I support it because I liked the ending and because of the horrible way the fans conducted themselves, and I'm talking about the majority of you.

So, you support the "bad endings" to "punish" the people who expressed their feelings?

You miss the part where I said I liked the ending?  I support the good ending because I like it and I support Bioware's decision to disregard tantrums because I don't like tantrums.  If you had all been constructive and reasonable I'd probably want you to get some kind of new ending just because I was impressed with the community.  This place is a cesspool, though.  

I think you're being a bit harsh, there. Most of the people I've seen come and make a single post about how they loved the series, but the endings spoiled it for them, and then post nothing further. Most anti-enders I've seen will be polite to pro-enders until the pro-enders do something like call them immature, entitled, or the like. Both of which are fairly insulting, even if used passively. No doubt that the review bombers are over-emotional, but condemning a group because of the actions of their worst? That's the kind of thinking that leads to people hating Muslims because of Islamic extremists.

You of course can't please everyone, but you *can* please most people in a game, simply by having sufficient variety, so that the odds are that at least one ending will be close to the prefered emotional resonance of any one individual. Bioware promised that both implictly (via the endings of their other games) and explicitly (via press statements and interviews), and did not deliver on it. Yes, the more immature people are more likely to behave badly, because they're young and hormonal etc, but there are plenty of us adult players who are unhappy, waited to see if we'd feel better about the endings the next day, then a few days later, but found no catharsis in the end. And so we've come to campaign for the ending we feel is worthy of what was arguably the most promising sci-fi epic this century so far (it is of course early years, yet!). Please don't be put off by the fact that there *are* some vocal ****s in this community, because there are, and they are on both sides.

But that's the rub. You CAN please everyone here by crafting the actual ange of endings promised and implied. Almost every complaint would go away if: the ridiculous teleporting character things was mitigated by in game cutscenes, if there was an actual RANGE of endings thatw as promised and implied including the ones present, and if harbinger replaced the catalyst, meaning the reapers were actually scary again.

It is really that simple. Give players what they wanted and were told they were going to get, and then they will continue to buy your products and you will keep your jobs and financial security. People act like there is some giant mystical barrier that can't be opened for compromise to be reached. It's bullcrap. Pay for new ending content and ameliorate that cost by making further DLC and fixing the rampant bugs that game has. It's really that cut and dried and the only obstacle is spending money and the willingness to do it.

Being in game design, I'm keenly aware of how much it's going to cost. I'm also keenly aware that if BW wants to survive as brand and a company long term, this is something they HAVE to do. The issue is not nearly as complicated as people are making it. The methodology to fixing it actually rather plain.

The ONLY issue are: is EA willing to spend the money now and is BW willing to craft new content. The end. It is really that simple.

The fix is unnecessary and undeserved.  They chose how they wanted to end their story and that should be the size of it, especially given the tone of Bioware's horrendous fans. 

I understand completely why Bioware isn't changing the ending, and it's also quite simple ... There's nothing more demeaning as an artist than having your work tainted by the lowest common denominator.  If Mass Effect were my universe and my creation I would definitely have my own vision for it's ending and none of your grubby little mits would touch it.

You overestimate your power to "ruin" Bioware over this.  You're only upsetting yourself and wasting words if you think the industry should hand creative control to a bunch of kids on a forum.  Writers don't generally take requests.  

Then you're definitely not an artist and have absolutely no idea what creating art is about.

Anyone who has actually worked their ass off producing and improving their art would know that an integral part of it is having to chop and change it. Any artist who sits there and says "My art is simply too good for you philistines" is a crap artist trying to hide their ineptitude behind superiority because they never would've developed as an artist in the first place. Noone gets popped out of their mother's womb able to produce masterpieces. It is a long, drawn out process of improving, critiquing, being criticized, making amendments, improving, critiquing etc.

There's a reason they say to be a good artist you need to have thick skin: this is why. And noone, no matter how good, is above the criticism that comes with the production of art - noone on this planet can ever say "I don't have more to learn" or "I can't improve my work."

Artists make retroactive changes to works all the time, and they incorporate any criticism they've taken into future works as well, it's what is required to improve and be as good as you can be in art. Why? Because art is not produced in a vacuum. If alot of people think what you produced is crap, in the art world, it is crap.

Quoting this because you know he'll ignore it anyway.  TLDR: Gigamantis has no idea what he's talking about.

[Gigamantis]

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Was "you're just one person" a generalization, exaggeration or speculation?  How many people do you think he is?  

I'm 283 people... Look Giga stop being pedantic... it's obvious by his bolding that he was referring to when you said "my movement" look just re read the post and actually pay attention...

Your movement just means the movement you actively support.  I think he knows that I know you didn't found it, he was just being obnoxious and not making any points.

[Sangheili_1337]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I think you're missing the point.  It's not that they wouldn't have enough time it's that these are changes they don't want to make.  If this is how they wanted to end THEIR series then forcing them to change it will result in bitter and half-hearted work.  It will be garbage, even if you give them years to develope it because they won't believe in it.  It won't be what they wanted for their world. 

Opinions are one thing but too many of you are trying to force them through internet bully tactics.  If more of you had just handled this better then Bioware may have been happy to release some continuation on THEIR ORIGINAL ending.  A new ending should never happen, though.  

Ok once again. why on earth are you under the impression that no one else has the right to comment or make demands of other peoples work? do youhave any idea how the world works... do you think artists can just make whatever they feel like? No they can't
And as for the not believing in it, from the quality of the current ending it's already clear that the makes did not Care or Believe in their game...

Again, how is anything we are doing or saying bullying? how is saying that i'm prepared cease giving Bioware my money bullying? It's making a point, it's saying, if you don't make the ending you promised. i'll go buy games from people who deliver on their promises...
and as for their original ending... well judging by most of the fan reaction... it wasn't very good... when people in the real world make something that's not very good, and in this case seems to be quite bad... most people rather sensibly demand it be fixed...
example... go to a restaurant and order some steak... if you get a very bad tasting and horribly falvored steak... would you defend the cooks integrity by saying it's his original work... No You'd say... take this away and bring me a better one.

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Please... never again refer to me as your friend... please... don't do that...
i'm not chasing you off. i'm trying to make points and show you why i'm dissatisfied with what was delivered.
also... how do you know it was review bombing? maybe those people just expressed their honest opinion.
internet bullying... or just people expressing opinion? i'd got with the latter.

again, i've made several points on how "my" side has been very constructive, made several good points, even sent in suggestions and theories in an attempt to show bioware ideas for developing what we'd see as a proper ending... i even posted one in this thread like 20 minutes ago or so. Meeting the demands of their fans would be the very epitomy of integrity...

you are yet again insulting people... please don't do that... this is the third time i've asked you to stop belittling people. Have you ever wondered why thousands of people who until the release of ME3 were avid and vocal supporters of bioware... yet have suddenly changed their opinion and are now saying that they should deliver their promises... i'm thinking there might be some cause there...

Sorry, friend, but you're just one person and I'm talking about the whole movement to change the ending.  The WHOLE movement.  Not just you or the few other people who have tried to be constructive.  I'm talking about the whole movement.  All of them.  Their review bombings.  Their chasing people off the forums.  The whole movement.  You understand yet, because you keep responding with "I didn't ... I wasn't ... I was trying to."  I'm talking about the whole movement to change the ending.  The collective.  All of them.  There were thousands.  Please tell me you understand what I'm saying to you right now.

The theories on the forums aren't very good and they don't excuse the bully tactics, review bombing and chasing people off the forums.  The whole movement, which means all of them, needs to stop with the internet bully tactics. 

Bully tactics really? How does one chase people off forums? There arent alot of pro enders because 90% of people hated the endings, plain and simple. Review bombings are a result of protesting how dlc is implemented and the lies that were fed to them. People dont like being treated poorly so will react accordingly.

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

By saying or doing sometinbg constructive?

From where? What is a "starting point" to be "constructive", if you are alone?

Reasoning by the absurd : taken one by one, all "constructive retakers" are "alone".

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 03 avril 2012 - 06:30 .

[Alent]

Gigamantis wrote...
Sorry, friend, but you're just one person and I'm talking about the whole movement to change the ending.  The WHOLE movement.  Not just you or the few other people who have tried to be constructive.  I'm talking about the whole movement.  All of them.  Their review bombings.  Their chasing people off the forums.  The whole movement.  You understand yet, because you keep responding with "I didn't ... I wasn't ... I was trying to."  I'm talking about the whole movement to change the ending.  The collective.  All of them.  There were thousands.  Please tell me you understand what I'm saying to you right now.

The theories on the forums aren't very good and they don't excuse the bully tactics, review bombing and chasing people off the forums.  The whole movement, which means all of them, needs to stop with the internet bully tactics. 

Posting a bad review because you didn't like a game isn't the same as review bombing.  To claim the whole movement has chased people off the forums or used bully tactics is hyperbolic and inflamitory.  I don't disagree that some people have had heated discussions, but I haven't seen what you are talking about and if it was as prevalent as you claim I'm sure I would have noticed more of it.

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

Sorry, friend, but you're just one person and I'm talking about the whole movement to change the ending.  The WHOLE movement.  Not just you or the few other people who have tried to be constructive.  I'm talking about the whole movement.  All of them.  Their review bombings.  Their chasing people off the forums.  The whole movement.  You understand yet, because you keep responding with "I didn't ... I wasn't ... I was trying to."  I'm talking about the whole movement to change the ending.  The collective.  All of them.  There were thousands.  Please tell me you understand what I'm saying to you right now.

The theories on the forums aren't very good and they don't excuse the bully tactics, review bombing and chasing people off the forums.  The whole movement, which means all of them, needs to stop with the internet bully tactics. 

I already commented on that friend thing... You're again just trying to be insulting. at best i'd say i acknowledge you as an individual with a contrary opinion to mine, which is fine. but stop with the friend bull****. And again you're also speculating about people... How many have tried to drive you off? maybe 2 or three... and all they did was call you a troll.... this entire time me and several others have discussed and met your points with counter arguments... we have been polite and simply stated opinions... Also i fail to see how you know so well that all these people wanted to review bomb and so on... again i'm standing by the point that i believe these review bombings as you label them were merely people expressing their opinion... maybe banding together to do so... but that's something they're allowed to do.

and again, i doubt you've really read even one of the theories on the forum. you've certainly not read mine. i know because you've offered no comments on it. We are not internet bullying, we aren't even physicall bullying... we are simply saying treat us as clients and meet the clients demands... if not, then you don't get the clients money...