1158 réponses à ce sujet

[Ozai75]

If you ignore the troll and stop feeding it, it will eventually go away.

[panzerwzh]

Mulberry wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Versidious wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

This thread isn't about the quality of the ending, though, it's discussing what is perceived to be Bioware's decision on this matter. I support it because I liked the ending and because of the horrible way the fans conducted themselves, and I'm talking about the majority of you.

So, you support the "bad endings" to "punish" the people who expressed their feelings?

You miss the part where I said I liked the ending?  I support the good ending because I like it and I support Bioware's decision to disregard tantrums because I don't like tantrums.  If you had all been constructive and reasonable I'd probably want you to get some kind of new ending just because I was impressed with the community.  This place is a cesspool, though.  

I think you're being a bit harsh, there. Most of the people I've seen come and make a single post about how they loved the series, but the endings spoiled it for them, and then post nothing further. Most anti-enders I've seen will be polite to pro-enders until the pro-enders do something like call them immature, entitled, or the like. Both of which are fairly insulting, even if used passively. No doubt that the review bombers are over-emotional, but condemning a group because of the actions of their worst? That's the kind of thinking that leads to people hating Muslims because of Islamic extremists.

You of course can't please everyone, but you *can* please most people in a game, simply by having sufficient variety, so that the odds are that at least one ending will be close to the prefered emotional resonance of any one individual. Bioware promised that both implictly (via the endings of their other games) and explicitly (via press statements and interviews), and did not deliver on it. Yes, the more immature people are more likely to behave badly, because they're young and hormonal etc, but there are plenty of us adult players who are unhappy, waited to see if we'd feel better about the endings the next day, then a few days later, but found no catharsis in the end. And so we've come to campaign for the ending we feel is worthy of what was arguably the most promising sci-fi epic this century so far (it is of course early years, yet!). Please don't be put off by the fact that there *are* some vocal ****s in this community, because there are, and they are on both sides.

But that's the rub. You CAN please everyone here by crafting the actual ange of endings promised and implied. Almost every complaint would go away if: the ridiculous teleporting character things was mitigated by in game cutscenes, if there was an actual RANGE of endings thatw as promised and implied including the ones present, and if harbinger replaced the catalyst, meaning the reapers were actually scary again.

It is really that simple. Give players what they wanted and were told they were going to get, and then they will continue to buy your products and you will keep your jobs and financial security. People act like there is some giant mystical barrier that can't be opened for compromise to be reached. It's bullcrap. Pay for new ending content and ameliorate that cost by making further DLC and fixing the rampant bugs that game has. It's really that cut and dried and the only obstacle is spending money and the willingness to do it.

Being in game design, I'm keenly aware of how much it's going to cost. I'm also keenly aware that if BW wants to survive as brand and a company long term, this is something they HAVE to do. The issue is not nearly as complicated as people are making it. The methodology to fixing it actually rather plain.

The ONLY issue are: is EA willing to spend the money now and is BW willing to craft new content. The end. It is really that simple.

The fix is unnecessary and undeserved.  They chose how they wanted to end their story and that should be the size of it, especially given the tone of Bioware's horrendous fans. 

I understand completely why Bioware isn't changing the ending, and it's also quite simple ... There's nothing more demeaning as an artist than having your work tainted by the lowest common denominator.  If Mass Effect were my universe and my creation I would definitely have my own vision for it's ending and none of your grubby little mits would touch it.

You overestimate your power to "ruin" Bioware over this.  You're only upsetting yourself and wasting words if you think the industry should hand creative control to a bunch of kids on a forum.  Writers don't generally take requests.  

Then you're definitely not an artist and have absolutely no idea what creating art is about.

Anyone who has actually worked their ass off producing and improving their art would know that an integral part of it is having to chop and change it. Any artist who sits there and says "My art is simply too good for you philistines" is a crap artist trying to hide their ineptitude behind superiority because they never would've developed as an artist in the first place. Noone gets popped out of their mother's womb able to produce masterpieces. It is a long, drawn out process of improving, critiquing, being criticized, making amendments, improving, critiquing etc.

There's a reason they say to be a good artist you need to have thick skin: this is why. And noone, no matter how good, is above the criticism that comes with the production of art - noone on this planet can ever say "I don't have more to learn" or "I can't improve my work."

Artists make retroactive changes to works all the time, and they incorporate any criticism they've taken into future works as well, it's what is required to improve and be as good as you can be in art. Why? Because art is not produced in a vacuum. If alot of people think what you produced is crap, in the art world, it is crap.

Quoting this because you know he'll ignore it anyway.  TLDR: Gigamantis has no idea what he's talking about.

Dont waste your time, guys. He is simply trolling.

[WizenSlinky0]

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Are you denying that pro-enders and media have insulted, attacked, and otherwise have been completely disgraceful to the human race in trying to de-humanize and destroy the opinions of those who dislike it?

See, the problem with such arguments is that both sides should realize that not everybody who agree's with an opinion does these things. Disgraceful actions and comments have been made on both sides of this little disagreement. And it's terrible. The things some people have said make me want to vomit. When you classify an entire "movement" as something you're already making a fatal mistake. Because people who associate with a movement don't do so because they all agree on how and why something should be done, only that it should be done.

The opinions and ideas in the retake movement are as diverse and complicated as the people in it. And as with any movement it has elements that are either overly passionate or just disrespectful people.

I personally do not identify myself with the movement. I do not believe it adaquately summarizes my thought process. However, I do agree with the idea that the ending we recieved was all around poor. So although I distance myself from the movement I agree with their goal.

It's ridiculous to compare this to sabotage. The game already exists, for one. And bad PR does not equal sabotage. If I tell people it deserves a 1 and honestly believe that, whether by word of mouth or reviews, is that not fair? Some people actually do believe that. They are that upset. And their feelings cannot be attached a "right" or "wrong". It's the nature of emotion. Nothing that could be done short of a mandatory download could ever "sabotage" it.  I've talked about this repeatedly, the idea that each pathway through games like this are an independent experience. They are meant to be independent experiences. It's how the medium works. It's why it has so much replayability for a single player game. The idea that offering additional options detracts is, in this posters humble opinion, folly. Nothing short of dramatically ripping out the original content could actually "sabotage" it. A new ending can just as well be implemented through the original context. Some don't believe that, of course, and I respect their opinions.

In the end you defeat your whole argument. So long as a single person in the movement is constructive you cannot paint the entire side as sabotaging the game. Or should I say, you can do so as is your right, but it will fundamentally be a flawed argument. And so long as even a single person is being constructive is it not worth it to consider the points and decide, independently of fan reaction, whether Bioware thinks the ending deserves further exploration.

However, what fan reaction DID do was what Bioware probably wouldn't have done if it had been just one voice. Consider the points. Because developers are being increasingly stressed to churn out content that will be consumed by the largest number of players. They are being increasingly stressed to overlook bugs and errors or oversights in order to move on to the next project.

So I'm thankful for the Retake movement if only for drawing enough voices to an issue that Bioware at the very least has to look at the information presented and make a decision. Whatever they're decision is and whether or not I'm happy with it is irrelevent in the end. I'll move on to the next game that hopefully has an ending that gives some sort of satisfaction for completing it.

Cheers,

~Slinky

Modifié par WizenSlinky0, 03 avril 2012 - 06:33 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Hmm...... there's a paid shill in the room.

[Gigamantis]

Then you're definitely not an artist and have absolutely no idea what creating art is about.

Anyone
who has actually worked their ass off producing and improving their art
would know that an integral part of it is having to chop and change it.
Any artist who sits there and says "My art is simply too good for you
philistines" is a crap artist trying to hide their ineptitude behind
superiority because they never would've developed as an artist in the
first place. Noone gets popped out of their mother's womb able to
produce masterpieces. It is a long, drawn out process of improving,
critiquing, being criticized, making amendments, improving, critiquing
etc.

There's a reason they say to be a good artist you need to
have thick skin: this is why. And noone, no matter how good, is above
the criticism that comes with the production of art - noone on this
planet can ever say "I don't have more to learn" or "I can't improve my
work."

Artists make retroactive changes to works all the time,
and they incorporate any criticism they've taken into future works as
well, it's what is required to improve and be as good as you can be in
art. Why? Because art is not produced in a vacuum. If alot of people
think what you produced is crap, in the art world, it is crap.

If you'd been paying attention at all you would know this isn't about integrating criticism into future art, it's about completely abandoning your vision because you're bullied out of it.  RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.  Great notes for future development, but that doesn't mean you get to tear down and recreate a painting that's already finished.  

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Was "you're just one person" a generalization, exaggeration or speculation?  How many people do you think he is?  

I'm 283 people... Look Giga stop being pedantic... it's obvious by his bolding that he was referring to when you said "my movement" look just re read the post and actually pay attention...

Your movement just means the movement you actively support.  I think he knows that I know you didn't found it, he was just being obnoxious and not making any points.

i actively support the movement by having given money to charity to make a point and by expressing my opinion... i'd like you to clarify why this is a bad thing? i still don't get what is the great offense we've committed... because if you like the current endings... guess what... keep them... don't worry... they're still there... you can have them... and we can have new and varied actually diverse endings we were promised if Bioware makes them...

[Mulberry]

videogames != paintings. You can't cite precedent when its a different medium altogether.

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

 RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.

"Sad" does not equate to "bad". "Open-ended" does not equate to "broken".

[Alent]

Gigamantis wrote...
If you'd been paying attention at all you would know this isn't about integrating criticism into future art, it's about completely abandoning your vision because you're bullied out of it.  RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.  Great notes for future development, but that doesn't mean you get to tear down and recreate a painting that's already finished.  

If Mass Effect was a movie and ended the way it did and the test audience had the same reaction as a majority of the fans did would they have changed the ending or stuck with their "vision" even if that meant it would tank in theaters?  I can tell you what most movie producers do: they would rewrite the ending.

[Grudge_NL]

Alent wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
If you'd been paying attention at all you would know this isn't about integrating criticism into future art, it's about completely abandoning your vision because you're bullied out of it.  RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.  Great notes for future development, but that doesn't mean you get to tear down and recreate a painting that's already finished.  

If Mass Effect was a movie and ended the way it did and the test audience had the same reaction as a majority of the fans did would they have changed the ending or stuck with their "vision" even if that meant it would tank in theaters?  I can tell you what most movie producers do: they would rewrite the ending.

Really ? Most producers would rewrite the ending? HAHAHA. Omg you are funny as hell.  Just look at how many movies have a low rating. Do the directors change anything ? Nope.

[Whiskey Jay]

the red boon wrote...

I'm not buying a clarification dlc I'll just forget mass effect if they want to justify star child and three preset endings.

[Noblewolf]

A newspaper last week near me was saying that EA gave in to the deamnding fan and making new DLC ending content, i wouldn't believe anything unless you hear it st8 from the mods and or devs on here.

[Gigamantis]

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I'm talking about the entire movement.  Are you denying that sites were review bombed by thousands of people?  Are you denying that people who liked the ending are chased off the forums?  These are internet bullying tactics, friend, and they're what your movement has been using to get it's way.  

Your side as a collective hasn't been constructive and has been attempting to sabotage the game.  That's reality and it's not something Bioware should encourage from you.  Sometimes a company has to take a stand against this kind of nonsense; you people shouldn't get to bully your way into the creative process and start forcing things out of them. 

Even if you feel you were constructive you're just one person.  There are thousands of others out there that turned this movement into the childish joke it is.  Giving into an internet bullying offensive like this would be a complete integrity dump for Bioware.  They can't and hopefully they won't do it.

Are you denying that pro-enders and media have insulted, attacked, and otherwise have been completely disgraceful to the human race in trying to de-humanize and destroy the opinions of those who dislike it?

See, the problem with such arguments is that both sides should realize that not everybody who agree's with an opinion does these things. Disgraceful actions and comments have been made on both sides of this little disagreement. And it's terrible. The things some people have said make me want to vomit. When you classify an entire "movement" as something you're already making a fatal mistake. Because people who associate with a movement don't do so because they all agree on how and why something should be done, only that it should be done.

The opinions and ideas in the retake movement are as diverse and complicated as the people in it. And as with any movement it has elements that are either overly passionate or just disrespectful people.

I personally do not identify myself with the movement. I do not believe it adaquately summarizes my thought process. However, I do agree with the idea that the ending we recieved was all around poor. So although I distance myself from the movement I agree with their goal.

It's ridiculous to compare this to sabotage. The game already exists, for one. And bad PR does not equal sabotage. If I tell people it deserves a 1 and honestly believe that, whether by word of mouth or reviews, is that not fair? Some people actually do believe that. They are that upset. And their feelings cannot be attached a "right" or "wrong". It's the nature of emotion. Nothing that could be done short of a mandatory download could ever "sabotage" it.  I've talked about this repeatedly, the idea that each pathway through games like this are an independent experience. They are meant to be independent experiences. It's how the medium works. It's why it has so much replayability for a single player game. The idea that offering additional options detracts is, in this posters humble opinion, folly. Nothing short of dramatically ripping out the original content could actually "sabotage" it. A new ending can just as well be implemented through the original context. Some don't believe that, of course, and I respect their opinions.

In the end you defeat your whole argument. So long as a single person in the movement is constructive you cannot paint the entire side as sabotaging the game. Or should I say, you can do so as is your right, but it will fundamentally be a flawed argument. And so long as even a single person is being constructive is it not worth it to consider the points and decide, independently of fan reaction, whether Bioware thinks the ending deserves further exploration.

However, what fan reaction DID do was what Bioware probably wouldn't have done if it had been just one voice. Consider the points. Because developers are being increasingly stressed to churn out content that will be consumed by the largest number of players. They are being increasingly stressed to overlook bugs and errors or oversights in order to move on to the next project.

So I'm thankful for the Retake movement if only for drawing enough voices to an issue that Bioware at the very least has to look at the information presented and make a decision. Whatever they're decision is and whether or not I'm happy with it is irrelevent in the end. I'll move on to the next game that hopefully has an ending that gives some sort of satisfaction for completing it.

Cheers,

~Slinky

You're being obtuse.  You can't ignore the destructive nature of how this movement was conducted by saying "at least I got what I wanted."  If the ending is changed it sets precedent for things that will invalidate the use of actual writing in games.  You think you want to be able to force everything to end exactly how you want it to, but that's going to get shallow and boring very fast once it's common. 

I've already said it but if Bioware starts letting the fans do that now I'll personally be done with them.  They can let the forums do their writing and I'll stick with the companies who still hire out that work to talented people. 

[Kitedtk]

Grudge_NL wrote...

Alent wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
If you'd been paying attention at all you would know this isn't about integrating criticism into future art, it's about completely abandoning your vision because you're bullied out of it.  RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.  Great notes for future development, but that doesn't mean you get to tear down and recreate a painting that's already finished.  

If Mass Effect was a movie and ended the way it did and the test audience had the same reaction as a majority of the fans did would they have changed the ending or stuck with their "vision" even if that meant it would tank in theaters?  I can tell you what most movie producers do: they would rewrite the ending.

Really ? Most producers would rewrite the ending? HAHAHA. Omg you are funny as hell.  Just look at how many movies have a low rating. Do the directors change anything ? Nope.

I can immediately think of one example. The movie Basic with travolta and samue jackson...
they rewrote the ending completely, changing who was the bad guy and who survived... because they thought the ending wouldn't sell well...

[DJBare]

Gigamantis has got you all, HOOK, LINE and SINKER.

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

You're being obtuse.  You can't ignore the destructive nature of how this movement was conducted by saying "at least I got what I wanted."  If the ending is changed it sets precedent for things that will invalidate the use of actual writing in games.  You think you want to be able to force everything to end exactly how you want it to, but that's going to get shallow and boring very fast once it's common. 

I've already said it but if Bioware starts letting the fans do that now I'll personally be done with them.  They can let the forums do their writing and I'll stick with the companies who still hire out that work to talented people. 

No what it will do is reinforce to the fans that Bioware truly does care about what it's fan feedback and what they say...

Bioware should pay attention to what the fans think and want... and i've ceased to care at all about what you say... you don't defend your points with anything beyond "artistic integrity" which doesn't really work with anything that is a business enterprise...

[Gigamantis]

Alent wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
If you'd been paying attention at all you would know this isn't about integrating criticism into future art, it's about completely abandoning your vision because you're bullied out of it.  RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.  Great notes for future development, but that doesn't mean you get to tear down and recreate a painting that's already finished.  

If Mass Effect was a movie and ended the way it did and the test audience had the same reaction as a majority of the fans did would they have changed the ending or stuck with their "vision" even if that meant it would tank in theaters?  I can tell you what most movie producers do: they would rewrite the ending.

Awesome.  Now I know the retakers how no idea how movies work. 

[Vaktathi]

Gigamantis wrote...

Then you're definitely not an artist and have absolutely no idea what creating art is about.

Anyone
who has actually worked their ass off producing and improving their art
would know that an integral part of it is having to chop and change it.
Any artist who sits there and says "My art is simply too good for you
philistines" is a crap artist trying to hide their ineptitude behind
superiority because they never would've developed as an artist in the
first place. Noone gets popped out of their mother's womb able to
produce masterpieces. It is a long, drawn out process of improving,
critiquing, being criticized, making amendments, improving, critiquing
etc.

There's a reason they say to be a good artist you need to
have thick skin: this is why. And noone, no matter how good, is above
the criticism that comes with the production of art - noone on this
planet can ever say "I don't have more to learn" or "I can't improve my
work."

Artists make retroactive changes to works all the time,
and they incorporate any criticism they've taken into future works as
well, it's what is required to improve and be as good as you can be in
art. Why? Because art is not produced in a vacuum. If alot of people
think what you produced is crap, in the art world, it is crap.

If you'd been paying attention at all you would know this isn't about integrating criticism into future art, it's about completely abandoning your vision because you're bullied out of it.  RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.  Great notes for future development, but that doesn't mean you get to tear down and recreate a painting that's already finished.  

It's not about a sad ending, it's about an ending that doesn't make any sense, that the rest of the game, and indeed the entire trilogy, was not building up to.

It's like watching Return of the Jedi and right after Luke talks with Vader-returned-to-Anakin, it cuts to the end of Planet of the Apes.



It feels like it was written by a different team for a different game, in large part because it is basically a cut/paste lift of the ending to DeusEx from 12 years ago (red/blue/green, destroy ai/control ai/merge with ai).

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

You're being obtuse. 

Wrong. His opinion might be founded on sound or bad arguments. Stay polite, please.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 03 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[The Mercenary55]

 Gigamantis, yeah no one is providing constructive feedback, thats why there is almost 6000 posts in the suggested changes thread where people are providing polite and constructive feedback.

Stop trying to belittle everyone that is against your point and stop contradicting yourself by saying " i love watching little childrens emotional reactions" you are an utter idiot.

[Kitedtk]

I will cease to feed the 12 year old troll...hey guys... party at my place. I'll bring the cheese and the cocktail umbrellas

[WizenSlinky0]

Grudge_NL wrote...

Alent wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
If you'd been paying attention at all you would know this isn't about integrating criticism into future art, it's about completely abandoning your vision because you're bullied out of it.  RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.  Great notes for future development, but that doesn't mean you get to tear down and recreate a painting that's already finished.  

If Mass Effect was a movie and ended the way it did and the test audience had the same reaction as a majority of the fans did would they have changed the ending or stuck with their "vision" even if that meant it would tank in theaters?  I can tell you what most movie producers do: they would rewrite the ending.

Really ? Most producers would rewrite the ending? HAHAHA. Omg you are funny as hell.  Just look at how many movies have a low rating. Do the directors change anything ? Nope.

He means before it ever comes out. Movies change their endings all the time after showing it to test audiences. It's why all the directors cuts have "alternate endings". Because at some point they shot this ending, people didn't like it, and they scrapped it.

When it comes to commercializing your art...your vision inherently means nothing. You become a medium for which to channel the desires of your consumers. Yes, you can do this in unique, creative, and perhaps unexpected ways. You can give fans what they want before they ever realized they wanted it. But in the end your art is open and is expected to take criticism and improve because of it.

No, you cannot change every little thing. But you are obligated, as an artist attempting to make money, to accept critcism as more than just "Yeah I heard you, and I'm going to ignore everything you just said". Even if you initially consider it absolute stupidity...you are basically obligated to reflect on the points outside of emotional responses and decide how that change would interact with everything else you have done. In the end, you may well decide yes, it's still absolute stupidity. But you have to take said stupidity into account first.

Also, low ratings are rarely due just to endings. If the entire movie sucks the best ending in the world won't save it. But it's a lot harder to change a middle of the movie than it is the end.

[Alent]

Grudge_NL wrote...
Really ? Most producers would rewrite the ending? HAHAHA. Omg you are funny as hell.  Just look at how many movies have a low rating. Do the directors change anything ? Nope.

You aren't taking into account other factors like release date, budget and writer skill.  The main point i was trying to make was that art made for the purposes of consumer entertainment has never been static.

BioWare was given the rare opportunity to make things right, a second chance after many fans were upset.  We know they have skill, most weren't demanding a fixed release date, and many people raised money so budget is probably not a problem.  I am saying that given the choice between original "vision" and a profitable franchise with many happy fans only a fool chooses "vision", and one that is soon to be out of business should they contisantly refuse to take and act on criticism.

DJBare wrote...

Gigamantis has got you all, HOOK, LINE and SINKER.

 
Good point.  I will cease feeding = )

Modifié par Alent, 03 avril 2012 - 06:45 .

[xMellowhype]

Gigamantis wrote...

Then you're definitely not an artist and have absolutely no idea what creating art is about.

Anyone
who has actually worked their ass off producing and improving their art
would know that an integral part of it is having to chop and change it.
Any artist who sits there and says "My art is simply too good for you
philistines" is a crap artist trying to hide their ineptitude behind
superiority because they never would've developed as an artist in the
first place. Noone gets popped out of their mother's womb able to
produce masterpieces. It is a long, drawn out process of improving,
critiquing, being criticized, making amendments, improving, critiquing
etc.

There's a reason they say to be a good artist you need to
have thick skin: this is why. And noone, no matter how good, is above
the criticism that comes with the production of art - noone on this
planet can ever say "I don't have more to learn" or "I can't improve my
work."

Artists make retroactive changes to works all the time,
and they incorporate any criticism they've taken into future works as
well, it's what is required to improve and be as good as you can be in
art. Why? Because art is not produced in a vacuum. If alot of people
think what you produced is crap, in the art world, it is crap.

If you'd been paying attention at all you would know this isn't about integrating criticism into future art, it's about completely abandoning your vision because you're bullied out of it.  RPG players can't handle sad endings.  RPG players don't like open-ended themes.  Great notes for future development, but that doesn't mean you get to tear down and recreate a painting that's already finished.  

Oh look more insults that are somehow valid arguments. "gt a lyfe broz."

[Gigamantis]

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

You're being obtuse.  You can't ignore the destructive nature of how this movement was conducted by saying "at least I got what I wanted."  If the ending is changed it sets precedent for things that will invalidate the use of actual writing in games.  You think you want to be able to force everything to end exactly how you want it to, but that's going to get shallow and boring very fast once it's common. 

I've already said it but if Bioware starts letting the fans do that now I'll personally be done with them.  They can let the forums do their writing and I'll stick with the companies who still hire out that work to talented people. 

No what it will do is reinforce to the fans that Bioware truly does care about what it's fan feedback and what they say...

Bioware should pay attention to what the fans think and want... and i've ceased to care at all about what you say... you don't defend your points with anything beyond "artistic integrity" which doesn't really work with anything that is a business enterprise...

Again, there's a difference between caring about what they say and giving into internet bully tactics.  Once Bioware goes full on spineless with it's vision to the point where it can be bullied by a destructive movement of children, there's really not going to be enough left of the Bioware I love to make it worth continuing with them.

You think you're talking about feedback but what you're trying for is complete control.  You like the movement because you know what a concerted bully tactic it is, and you know if that kind of thing is actually successful you can make Bioware do whatever you want.