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EA says it's official: no DLC for new ending


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#901
Kitedtk

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Gigamantis wrote...

Giga... this is like the fifth time i'm asking you to stop belittling people... if we want variety and for our choices to actually matter it doesn't mean we can't deal with bleak endings or hopeless ones... it just means we want variety and for our choices to matter... Open ended does not mean good...

I'm not insulting anyone so quit rambling about that.

Open ended can definitely mean good as well, but some people obviously don't like that kind of story telling. It doesn't mean it's not possible to have good open-ended elements in a story. The ME3 ending was a good one and I've explained why many times on these forums.


Please do no only quote parts of what i say,.... the rest of it was also there for a reason...
sure open ended is not necessarily bad... but it isn't just good either because it's open ended...
no you¨ve never explained why it was good... you've never addressed what happens and why it's good... you've just said... it's original so it's good... that's all you've ever said....

#902
Vaktathi

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Gigamantis wrote...

Captain Arty wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
A lot of artists do sell out as well, though, because they're not confident enough in their ideas and talent to stand by them.  Those artists always end up being crap. 


That's not always true either. Sometimes feedback from editors and focus groups drastically improves endings even when the artist doesn't want to change their work.

This is whole reason for having editors.

The goal of focus groups is to water down the creative process for the masses.  It's a big part of the reason I've seen the same exact comedy movie over 1000 times only with different names.  It promotes homogeniety and I understand why it's necessary but I don't really like it. 

This shows you really don't understand actual focus groups, or have only ever had experience with the most ineptly managed focus groups. 1000 identical hollywood comedies really aren't the result of focus groups, they're the result of one being successful (which may have been in part due to a focus group), being fairly cheap and fast to produce, and continuing to bring in enough money with each iteration that they keep making them ad infinitum because yes, some people enjoy them/they're usually safe in terms of content to bring most people to/there's simply nothing else playing.

Modifié par Vaktathi, 03 avril 2012 - 07:29 .


#903
Myrmedus

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Gigamantis wrote...

Giga... this is like the fifth time i'm asking you to stop belittling people... if we want variety and for our choices to actually matter it doesn't mean we can't deal with bleak endings or hopeless ones... it just means we want variety and for our choices to matter... Open ended does not mean good...

I'm not insulting anyone so quit rambling about that.

Open ended can definitely mean good as well, but some people obviously don't like that kind of story telling. It doesn't mean it's not possible to have good open-ended elements in a story. The ME3 ending was a good one and I've explained why many times on these forums.


To be fair, this is the reason why there should (as advertised) have been multiple endings.

For those who like open ended: here you go, here it is.

For those who like conclusive: here you go.

For those who like happy: here you go.

For those who want depressing: here you go.

And to be honest, I think it would've been great if you got your ending based upon earlier choices, not just a "pick your favourite ending" segment. It would've been perfect if you did stupid crap during the game you got pigeon-holed into a depressing ending, for example. It would've fulfilled many gaming pluses in one swoop: replayability (to get different outcomes), meaningful decisions, absorbing narrative and encouring you to play the game differently in subsequent playthroughs. There should've been multiple endings - truly multiple and variable. Some people don't take well to open ended or ambiguous, it's an acquired taste like anchovies so don't shove those fish down everyone's throat as alot are likely to gag.

I personally would like to see a happy-ish ending. When I define happy, it's relative depending on the material. With ME3, I'm not expecting an ending like SW6. There will be sadness because of all the loss, no matter what happens, but I would like to feel there is some reward for it all. This to me is a cathartic requirement to such a monster of a narrative struggle. However, there are some who want open ended or even depressing. Point is: we should've had some variety because the ME fanbase is so varied.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 03 avril 2012 - 07:32 .


#904
bigtymers1211

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Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...


Giga... this is like the fifth time i'm asking you to stop belittling people... if we want variety and for our choices to actually matter it doesn't mean we can't deal with bleak endings or hopeless ones... it just means we want variety and for our choices to matter... Open ended does not mean good...

I'm not insulting anyone so quit rambling about that.

Open ended can definitely mean good as well, but some people obviously don't like that kind of story telling. It doesn't mean it's not possible to have good open-ended elements in a story. The ME3 ending was a good one and I've explained why many times on these forums.


Please do no only quote parts of what i say,.... the rest of it was also there for a reason...
sure open ended is not necessarily bad... but it isn't just good either because it's open ended...
no you¨ve never explained why it was good... you've never addressed what happens and why it's good... you've just said... it's original so it's good... that's all you've ever said....


Also the KEY to open-ended story (ala Inception) is the key factor of leaving ONLY one part unanswered (maybe one or two questions) while establishing everything else regarding the storyline in details, along with a very clear and detail explanation on the ANSWERED questions.  Also this open-ending question must REMAIN in line with the theme of the story.  The problem with the ending right now is that there are simply TOO many unanswered question, while they rushed to included starchild (who showed up for like...5 minutes?) and jammed everything into the end without a logical explanation of its action/motivations, etc.

if people want to know about a good open-ended story, look at Inception, it explain almost everything in the movie, and leave only ONE qeustion open.  Compare teh ending to ME3...you will see teh problem.

#905
OriginalTibs

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Vaktathi wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Captain Arty wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
A lot of artists do sell out as well, though, because they're not confident enough in their ideas and talent to stand by them.  Those artists always end up being crap. 


That's not always true either. Sometimes feedback from editors and focus groups drastically improves endings even when the artist doesn't want to change their work.

This is whole reason for having editors.

The goal of focus groups is to water down the creative process for the masses.  It's a big part of the reason I've seen the same exact comedy movie over 1000 times only with different names.  It promotes homogeniety and I understand why it's necessary but I don't really like it. 

This shows you really don't understand actual focus groups, or have only ever had experience with the most ineptly managed focus groups. 1000 identical hollywood comedies really aren't the result of focus groups, they're the result of one being successful (which may have been in part due to a focus group), being fairly cheap and fast to produce, and continuing to bring in enough money with each iteration that they keep making them ad infinitum because yes, some people enjoy them/they're usually safe in terms of content to bring most people to/there's simply nothing else playing.


Well, actually it misses the whole side of the barn to talk about focus groups and their purpose when subject to be focused upon is 'What is Good'.

The greatest minds in history have tried to explain 'The Good' for thousands of years and we're still not clear on it short of faith-based fanaticism.

You cannot rightly say you know whether an ending is good until you acan also convincingly say what good is.

#906
Myrmedus

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bigtymers1211 wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...


Giga... this is like the fifth time i'm asking you to stop belittling people... if we want variety and for our choices to actually matter it doesn't mean we can't deal with bleak endings or hopeless ones... it just means we want variety and for our choices to matter... Open ended does not mean good...

I'm not insulting anyone so quit rambling about that.

Open ended can definitely mean good as well, but some people obviously don't like that kind of story telling. It doesn't mean it's not possible to have good open-ended elements in a story. The ME3 ending was a good one and I've explained why many times on these forums.


Please do no only quote parts of what i say,.... the rest of it was also there for a reason...
sure open ended is not necessarily bad... but it isn't just good either because it's open ended...
no you¨ve never explained why it was good... you've never addressed what happens and why it's good... you've just said... it's original so it's good... that's all you've ever said....


Also the KEY to open-ended story (ala Inception) is the key factor of leaving ONLY one part unanswered (maybe one or two questions) while establishing everything else regarding the storyline in details, along with a very clear and detail explanation on the ANSWERED questions.  Also this open-ending question must REMAIN in line with the theme of the story.  The problem with the ending right now is that there are simply TOO many unanswered question, while they rushed to included starchild (who showed up for like...5 minutes?) and jammed everything into the end without a logical explanation of its action/motivations, etc.

if people want to know about a good open-ended story, look at Inception, it explain almost everything in the movie, and leave only ONE qeustion open.  Compare teh ending to ME3...you will see teh problem.


I'd also argue that trying to do this in a trilogy isn't a good idea, even if you do it successfully. Good open endings are usually found in movies or games that are stand-alone: this is for good reason.

#907
panzerwzh

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@Deventh We will be releasing additional content. We told
@Leafs430 that the endings will probably be brought up at PAX. Separate concerns.

Twitted by lovely https://mobile.twitter.com/masseffect

Dont bother an ending DLC anymore.

#908
Guest_Challenge Everything_*

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Dorrieb wrote...

 There is an article in today's (2nd April) newspaper Reforma in Mexico about the ME3 ending controversy. 

Daniel Gonzalez, director of marketing and public relations for EA Latin America, says that they will release no DLC with a different ending. There will be a DLC to better explain the details of the ending, but the ending will remain the same.

Regarding the future of the franchise, he declared that ME3 was the end of Shepard but not the end of the game, and promised that news about more DLC would be forthcoming in two weeks' time.

I don't think that leaves an awful lot of room for interpretation. For anyone who was hoping for a different ending and not a clarification of the dreadful current one, it doesn't look good. :(

EDIT: 


Occulo wrote...

Reforma does have an article dated April 2nd on their site (and as a PDF too), but you have to be a subscriber to see it. The title is "Exigen mejor final para Mass Effect 3" or "[They] demand a better ending for Mass Effect 3".

Anyone who's already subscribed to the newspaper but doesn't have an online account can make an account for free. If OP could do this and upload the PDF for us or take screenshots of the article, or something...


I couldn't find my subscription number to get in, but I did take a quick picture:

Image IPB
Image IPB


The end of Shepard, but not of the game? Are they serious? You can't make more stuff for the game without Shepard. It's not Mass Effect without Shepard!

I was all ready a tad disappointed when BioWare replaced the Warden with Hawke in DA2 and then added a ten year time skip (now my Warden only has twenty years left to live, damn it!). I'm fine with Dragon Age having different protagonists now, though. I mean, I'm used to the idea now. But three games, with Commander Shepard, and now they suggest going on without zhim? Blasphemy.

#909
Gigamantis

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The only reason BW don't -want- to is because of money, let's be honest. There is a point where hard-headed obstinance should take a backseat to doing the logical, right thing. A point where you have to let your defenses down and just put your hands up and say "Ok, maybe we ****ed up, we'll look into it." Honestly, as an artist, if you receive this much of a backlash something will tick in the back of your mind about the work you produced - if a person is as stubborn and apparently unyielding as BW about their "artistic integrity" in the face of such criticism it's just defensive behaviour and not indicative of real confidence.

The backlash is mostly based on personal preference, not ACTUAL problems.  They wanted a specific kind of ending and a lot of vocal fans wanted the opposite.  If you force them to redo their work over a creative difference of opinion you're not a source of feedback, you're actually a detriment.  People can't separate their immediate emotional reactions from the actual gauge of quality and that's why fan feedback has to be put through a strict filter.  Not much of it is serviceable. 

Why is this relevant? Because viewers are always able to see the macro-level immediately, which means alot of the time they'll see something you missed. I think BW was guilty of this - getting sucked into the micro-level - in the production of the ending. And I also think they had time restraints so weren't able to take a "break" away from their work so they could come back and look at it on a macro-level. How this fits into the story is things about the ending that cause problems with the story of the series as a whole (macro) whereas they may have worked - in their eyes - on a micro-level (the Catalyst conversion itself or the awesome scene rushing to the Conduit etc.)

Because of that I honestly believe you should - as an artist - take such level and ferocity of criticism seriously, especially from fans. Fans, by definition, will not be doing this in spite or because they're trolls or hate the company: it will be genuine. And if there are this many individuals genuinely at odds with what you've produced then it's quite possible there is something amiss.

Just one note: I sincerely hope your second sentence is not a follow on from your first: ie. insinuating that artists that change their works, even if they want to, all sell out - not saying it is but I'm not sure if you meant that or not. If you did then apparently Leonardo Da Vinci was a crap artist. If you didn't mean that then fair enough.

I've also never been against the company listening to feedback, but there's nothing in any of the complaints listed against the ending that would justify forcing them to rework it.  In the end this was a reactionary emotional response that hasn't resulted in good ideas.  Take the feedback as an opportunity to learn about your audience but don't compromise your artists in the process. 

#910
T-0pel

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Gigamantis wrote...

The only reason BW don't -want- to is because of money, let's be honest. There is a point where hard-headed obstinance should take a backseat to doing the logical, right thing. A point where you have to let your defenses down and just put your hands up and say "Ok, maybe we ****ed up, we'll look into it." Honestly, as an artist, if you receive this much of a backlash something will tick in the back of your mind about the work you produced - if a person is as stubborn and apparently unyielding as BW about their "artistic integrity" in the face of such criticism it's just defensive behaviour and not indicative of real confidence.

The backlash is mostly based on personal preference, not ACTUAL problems.  They wanted a specific kind of ending and a lot of vocal fans wanted the opposite.  If you force them to redo their work over a creative difference of opinion you're not a source of feedback, you're actually a detriment.  People can't separate their immediate emotional reactions from the actual gauge of quality and that's why fan feedback has to be put through a strict filter.  Not much of it is serviceable. 

Why is this relevant? Because viewers are always able to see the macro-level immediately, which means alot of the time they'll see something you missed. I think BW was guilty of this - getting sucked into the micro-level - in the production of the ending. And I also think they had time restraints so weren't able to take a "break" away from their work so they could come back and look at it on a macro-level. How this fits into the story is things about the ending that cause problems with the story of the series as a whole (macro) whereas they may have worked - in their eyes - on a micro-level (the Catalyst conversion itself or the awesome scene rushing to the Conduit etc.)

Because of that I honestly believe you should - as an artist - take such level and ferocity of criticism seriously, especially from fans. Fans, by definition, will not be doing this in spite or because they're trolls or hate the company: it will be genuine. And if there are this many individuals genuinely at odds with what you've produced then it's quite possible there is something amiss.

Just one note: I sincerely hope your second sentence is not a follow on from your first: ie. insinuating that artists that change their works, even if they want to, all sell out - not saying it is but I'm not sure if you meant that or not. If you did then apparently Leonardo Da Vinci was a crap artist. If you didn't mean that then fair enough.

I've also never been against the company listening to feedback, but there's nothing in any of the complaints listed against the ending that would justify forcing them to rework it.  In the end this was a reactionary emotional response that hasn't resulted in good ideas.  Take the feedback as an opportunity to learn about your audience but don't compromise your artists in the process. 


So there is nothing... In these hours of youtube videos, hundreds of threads on this forum and 60000 people saying what is wrong with the endings. Yeah. There is nothing. We are all just idiots.

#911
Kitedtk

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Gigamantis wrote...

The only reason BW don't -want- to is because of money, let's be honest. There is a point where hard-headed obstinance should take a backseat to doing the logical, right thing. A point where you have to let your defenses down and just put your hands up and say "Ok, maybe we ****ed up, we'll look into it." Honestly, as an artist, if you receive this much of a backlash something will tick in the back of your mind about the work you produced - if a person is as stubborn and apparently unyielding as BW about their "artistic integrity" in the face of such criticism it's just defensive behaviour and not indicative of real confidence.

The backlash is mostly based on personal preference, not ACTUAL problems.  They wanted a specific kind of ending and a lot of vocal fans wanted the opposite.  If you force them to redo their work over a creative difference of opinion you're not a source of feedback, you're actually a detriment.  People can't separate their immediate emotional reactions from the actual gauge of quality and that's why fan feedback has to be put through a strict filter.  Not much of it is serviceable. 

Why is this relevant? Because viewers are always able to see the macro-level immediately, which means alot of the time they'll see something you missed. I think BW was guilty of this - getting sucked into the micro-level - in the production of the ending. And I also think they had time restraints so weren't able to take a "break" away from their work so they could come back and look at it on a macro-level. How this fits into the story is things about the ending that cause problems with the story of the series as a whole (macro) whereas they may have worked - in their eyes - on a micro-level (the Catalyst conversion itself or the awesome scene rushing to the Conduit etc.)

Because of that I honestly believe you should - as an artist - take such level and ferocity of criticism seriously, especially from fans. Fans, by definition, will not be doing this in spite or because they're trolls or hate the company: it will be genuine. And if there are this many individuals genuinely at odds with what you've produced then it's quite possible there is something amiss.

Just one note: I sincerely hope your second sentence is not a follow on from your first: ie. insinuating that artists that change their works, even if they want to, all sell out - not saying it is but I'm not sure if you meant that or not. If you did then apparently Leonardo Da Vinci was a crap artist. If you didn't mean that then fair enough.

I've also never been against the company listening to feedback, but there's nothing in any of the complaints listed against the ending that would justify forcing them to rework it.  In the end this was a reactionary emotional response that hasn't resulted in good ideas.  Take the feedback as an opportunity to learn about your audience but don't compromise your artists in the process. 

You know what Gigas... i'm convinced you're a troll but even so i'll still be willing to point out, Listening to feed back and hence reworking and ending isn't bad or even unheard of... heck it's already been done, example... Fallout 3... your artistic progress in an industry like this will always be second to your companies managements money making interests... that's how it works... these companies are businesses...
And hey,,, Maybe an emotional reaction and response is still good and can lead to good results... I've invested 5 years into this game series... you can be damn sure my reaction is Emotional

#912
Gigamantis

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Vaktathi wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Captain Arty wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
A lot of artists do sell out as well, though, because they're not confident enough in their ideas and talent to stand by them.  Those artists always end up being crap. 


That's not always true either. Sometimes feedback from editors and focus groups drastically improves endings even when the artist doesn't want to change their work.

This is whole reason for having editors.

The goal of focus groups is to water down the creative process for the masses.  It's a big part of the reason I've seen the same exact comedy movie over 1000 times only with different names.  It promotes homogeniety and I understand why it's necessary but I don't really like it. 

This shows you really don't understand actual focus groups, or have only ever had experience with the most ineptly managed focus groups. 1000 identical hollywood comedies really aren't the result of focus groups, they're the result of one being successful (which may have been in part due to a focus group), being fairly cheap and fast to produce, and continuing to bring in enough money with each iteration that they keep making them ad infinitum because yes, some people enjoy them/they're usually safe in terms of content to bring most people to/there's simply nothing else playing.

Focus groups aren't a way to get good critical feedback; they're a way to gear movies towards the every-man.  The goal is to get a generalized consensus of what works for random people and what doesn't, and eventually you end up with the same formula. 

Blatantly copying other successful movies is kinda like conducting one massive focus group to see what works.  It invariably results in the same watered down schlock we see constantly. 

#913
DungeonHoek

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Gigamantis wrote...

Again, I want Bioware to ignore tantrums and bully tactics, but that's what the majority of this movement was.  I do think they should acknowledge the constructive fans, few they may be, but they should do what is most creatively satisfying.  The fans ideas, honestly, have been absolutely horrible for the most part so hopefully they're not actually being considered as appeasement.

Also, the precedent it sets is for boring formulaic games that try not to upset anyone.  That's fine in the short term but gets boring really fast.  Any company that wants to have any kind of future needs to let the creative people be creative.  That means that while they can acknowledge their uncreative fans they still need to let the actual creative people work uninhibited.


Okay, I hear you. I believe you have have concern from a good place in your heart. But my friend, I think you are over-worried about an out-come that is highly unlikely.

With all the information floating around about the ending, and the happenings going on. Really, this isn't the case of someone being creative, or stepping outside the box intentionally for an artistic deal. In the making of, which I wish I had a link to back me up, I have heard that the ending was litteraly changed at the last possible minute and made off of one written sentence. That being "Make an ending to make them think"

Now, you're probably going to say "Well, that's artistic". No, it's not. In this kind of situation you put someone on the spot, forcing them to whip something together and gave them no detail to work on.

In all the stuff I learned in the trade I wished to make my own, that being artist, one thing I learned was irrefutable. Detail. You have to give DETAILS. When working with other artists in a project, when being commissioned, whatever, you need details. Otherwise, you have nothing to go on other then speculation and personal tastes. And that doesn't fly when you work for others.

And when it comes to big time project's more detail is required. Otherwise you end up with a big mess.

Most people are correct, this whole thing with the ending of Mass Effect 3 doesn't fit properly. It turns the whole game on its head and stops making any form of coherent sense. Almost exactly like a dream. And the way it abruptly stops just doesn't fit the way the series has been building up. In other words it's a mess as it stands.

Now, we've heard all sorts of stuff, that they were rushed, and that this was the plan all along, conspiracy theories. We've heard vague PR responses, and seen nightmarish ammounts anger, hate and ego from both sides of the spectrum.

But y'know, those response's were coming from people who deny, deny, deny, and then whatever it is comes out anyway. So, odds are this was probably going to happen anyhow.

But setting a bad prescendent?, no, game's are already doing that. The worst companies make the same half-hearted quick-buck grabbing games all the time, and they would keep doing that even if this whole ME3 mess happened or not. Why?, because they see a market there, and people are buying.

At this point, I think everyone is just letting emotions run high. Especially here where a newspaper, which is probably behind on its information just repeated everything we already heard.

#914
Gigamantis

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You know what Gigas... i'm convinced you're a troll but even so i'll
still be willing to point out, Listening to feed back and hence
reworking and ending isn't bad or even unheard of... heck it's already
been done, example... Fallout 3... your artistic progress in an industry
like this will always be second to your companies managements money
making interests... that's how it works... these companies are
businesses...
And hey,,, Maybe an emotional reaction and response is still good and can lead to good results... I've invested 5 years into this game series... you can be damn sure my reaction is Emotional

Thanks for the astute example of why your feedback can't be trusted.  I'm invested in the series too but I'm not too emotional to temper my criticism of the game with objective reasoning. 

#915
Dranume

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One word.. PAX.

#916
Kitedtk

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Gigamantis wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Captain Arty wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
A lot of artists do sell out as well, though, because they're not confident enough in their ideas and talent to stand by them.  Those artists always end up being crap. 


That's not always true either. Sometimes feedback from editors and focus groups drastically improves endings even when the artist doesn't want to change their work.

This is whole reason for having editors.

The goal of focus groups is to water down the creative process for the masses.  It's a big part of the reason I've seen the same exact comedy movie over 1000 times only with different names.  It promotes homogeniety and I understand why it's necessary but I don't really like it. 

This shows you really don't understand actual focus groups, or have only ever had experience with the most ineptly managed focus groups. 1000 identical hollywood comedies really aren't the result of focus groups, they're the result of one being successful (which may have been in part due to a focus group), being fairly cheap and fast to produce, and continuing to bring in enough money with each iteration that they keep making them ad infinitum because yes, some people enjoy them/they're usually safe in terms of content to bring most people to/there's simply nothing else playing.

Focus groups aren't a way to get good critical feedback; they're a way to gear movies towards the every-man.  The goal is to get a generalized consensus of what works for random people and what doesn't, and eventually you end up with the same formula. 

Blatantly copying other successful movies is kinda like conducting one massive focus group to see what works.  It invariably results in the same watered down schlock we see constantly. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ......
oh my dear dark lord cthulhu in r'lyeth... oh damn you really are an idiot..
i didn't think but yes you've made me start insulting you. wow... well done....
yes... if something works... guess what... THEY DO IT AGAIN!!!
and if it's cheap and easy. then so much the better... you can say that's watered down Schlock but if it's just different enough that fine... i mean seriously... how many games have we played where we blast alien enemies from space... more than i care to count but msot have still been fun...

and your argument against making things be for everyman is just silly... you're a self centered idiot who can't be satisfied if others like things... you have to feel special and privilidged... guess what... you're an insignificant speck like the rest of us.

#917
Vaktathi

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Gigamantis wrote...

The backlash is mostly based on personal preference, not ACTUAL problems.

Aside from massive plotholes that affect the viability of the story all the way back to ME1 (for example, if the starchild was present the whole time, why on earth couldn't it have made everything in ME1 moot and just opened up for the reapers?), complete disregard of the artistic theme up until that point, copy-pasting an ending from a 12 year old game (poorly), the abandonment of the reader-writer contract that existed throug the trilogy up until that point, etc?

They wanted a specific kind of ending and a lot of vocal fans wanted the opposite.  If you force them to redo their work over a creative difference of opinion you're not a source of feedback, you're actually a detriment.

Guess what. Bioware is a business. The vocal fans the purchase everything mass effect related are the customers. In business, almost everywhere, the 80/20 principle applies where 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers, in this case, the vocal fans. So they really do have an interest in appeasing those fans because that is who sustains their continued existence.

People can't separate their immediate emotional reactions from the actual gauge of quality and that's why fan feedback has to be put through a strict filter.  Not much of it is serviceable. 

The fact that the ending is creating this kind of reaction is proof enough of its lack of quality. If this is the kind of reaction it is garnering, it's not doing the job it was supposed to do.

The ending very much was not appropriate to this game. In another game, it may have been fine, but was a massive violation of the narrative paradigm up to the last 5 minutes of the trilogy, as I noted earlier, it was like ending Return of the Jedi right with "You Damned Dirty Apes!".

#918
Kitedtk

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Gigamantis wrote...

You know what Gigas... i'm convinced you're a troll but even so i'll
still be willing to point out, Listening to feed back and hence
reworking and ending isn't bad or even unheard of... heck it's already
been done, example... Fallout 3... your artistic progress in an industry
like this will always be second to your companies managements money
making interests... that's how it works... these companies are
businesses...
And hey,,, Maybe an emotional reaction and response is still good and can lead to good results... I've invested 5 years into this game series... you can be damn sure my reaction is Emotional

Thanks for the astute example of why your feedback can't be trusted.  I'm invested in the series too but I'm not too emotional to temper my criticism of the game with objective reasoning. 

Emotional does not mean irrational... just because I FEEL!! about a game..doesn't mean my opinion is invalid you useless toady little ****... yes that's what this has become. you've been so useless and just argued against everything we say without presenting anything useful that my patience has run out. and i will do some cathartic insulting you ingrained inbred streak of ******...
Just because i have emotional attachment doesn't mean i can't be trusted... what it means is i have more invested in this than you do because you're just a useless little ****...
as for me, my feelings are tied to this and it makes the game so much more important to me... which i why i feel so strongly that what is wrong with it needs to be fixed to lift the game to the level it belonds on... to lift it up not drag it down...

#919
Gigamantis

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Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Vaktathi wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Captain Arty wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...
A lot of artists do sell out as well, though, because they're not confident enough in their ideas and talent to stand by them.  Those artists always end up being crap. 


That's not always true either. Sometimes feedback from editors and focus groups drastically improves endings even when the artist doesn't want to change their work.

This is whole reason for having editors.

The goal of focus groups is to water down the creative process for the masses.  It's a big part of the reason I've seen the same exact comedy movie over 1000 times only with different names.  It promotes homogeniety and I understand why it's necessary but I don't really like it. 

This shows you really don't understand actual focus groups, or have only ever had experience with the most ineptly managed focus groups. 1000 identical hollywood comedies really aren't the result of focus groups, they're the result of one being successful (which may have been in part due to a focus group), being fairly cheap and fast to produce, and continuing to bring in enough money with each iteration that they keep making them ad infinitum because yes, some people enjoy them/they're usually safe in terms of content to bring most people to/there's simply nothing else playing.

Focus groups aren't a way to get good critical feedback; they're a way to gear movies towards the every-man.  The goal is to get a generalized consensus of what works for random people and what doesn't, and eventually you end up with the same formula. 

Blatantly copying other successful movies is kinda like conducting one massive focus group to see what works.  It invariably results in the same watered down schlock we see constantly. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ......
oh my dear dark lord cthulhu in r'lyeth... oh damn you really are an idiot..
i didn't think but yes you've made me start insulting you. wow... well done....
yes... if something works... guess what... THEY DO IT AGAIN!!!
and if it's cheap and easy. then so much the better... you can say that's watered down Schlock but if it's just different enough that fine... i mean seriously... how many games have we played where we blast alien enemies from space... more than i care to count but msot have still been fun...

and your argument against making things be for everyman is just silly... you're a self centered idiot who can't be satisfied if others like things... you have to feel special and privilidged... guess what... you're an insignificant speck like the rest of us.

I don't mind repetitive content sometimes, it's just annoying when dumb people get all worked up the millisecond an artist tries something different.  The ending happened; it was sad; it confused you and now Bioware isn't allowed to make sad open-ended endings anymore.  There's enough games and movies out there for emotionally unstable people like yourself, I enjoy heavy handed emotion and I like thinking.  Thinking is fun. 

Don't worry, if the movement works Bioware will be back to releasing the most generic stuff they can come up with, just to make sure they don't scare you.  Hard to believe you're still crying. 

Modifié par Gigamantis, 03 avril 2012 - 07:56 .


#920
K_Tabris

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Don't believe anything until an official announcement.

That being said, don't expect a new ending through dlc, either. Just because Bethesda supposedly did this, does not mean it will happen for ME3.

Even if they do release new dlc (highly unlikely), why would you throw more money at a company who promised such variety and gave us AB and C ending in the first place?  

Modifié par NovinhaShepard, 03 avril 2012 - 07:57 .


#921
Gigamantis

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Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

You know what Gigas... i'm convinced you're a troll but even so i'll
still be willing to point out, Listening to feed back and hence
reworking and ending isn't bad or even unheard of... heck it's already
been done, example... Fallout 3... your artistic progress in an industry
like this will always be second to your companies managements money
making interests... that's how it works... these companies are
businesses...
And hey,,, Maybe an emotional reaction and response is still good and can lead to good results... I've invested 5 years into this game series... you can be damn sure my reaction is Emotional

Thanks for the astute example of why your feedback can't be trusted.  I'm invested in the series too but I'm not too emotional to temper my criticism of the game with objective reasoning. 

Emotional does not mean irrational... just because I FEEL!! about a game..doesn't mean my opinion is invalid you useless toady little ****... yes that's what this has become. you've been so useless and just argued against everything we say without presenting anything useful that my patience has run out. and i will do some cathartic insulting you ingrained inbred streak of ******...
Just because i have emotional attachment doesn't mean i can't be trusted... what it means is i have more invested in this than you do because you're just a useless little ****...
as for me, my feelings are tied to this and it makes the game so much more important to me... which i why i feel so strongly that what is wrong with it needs to be fixed to lift the game to the level it belonds on... to lift it up not drag it down...

See how easily you broke over nothing?  This is exactly why your opinions can't be trusted.  You get upset and start rambling in ways that look similar to the incoherent reviews on metacritic.  You can't objectively review something when you're sobbing uncontrollably. 

What you should do is take a couple months of from gaming, spend some time with your family, re-asses your life then come back and tell us all how you feel. 

#922
Kitedtk

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Gigamantis wrote...

I don't mind repetitive content sometimes, it's just annoying when dumb people get all worked up the millisecond an artist tries something different.  The ending you happened; it was sad; it confused you and now Bioware isn't allowed to make sad open-ended endings anymore.  There's enough games and movies out there for emotionally unstable people like yourself, I enjoy heavy handed emotion and I like thinking.  Thinking is fun. 

Don't worry, if the movement works Bioware will be back to releasing the most generic stuff they can come up with, just to make sure they don't scare you.  Hard to believe you're still crying. 

No you like being a useless troll you little ******. you mean by the most generic stuff ... by that you mean the largest and most influential and most touching science fiction drama with the largest fan base in the sci fi game world.... yeah... generic... wow... well played...

obviously what you like isn't thinking... it's taking whatever is put infront of you and ladling it in your mouth...
I like knowing what the impacts of decisions i made... i like knowing what happens... sure something can be open ended... but when it's ALL open ended.. it's not good writing.. it's lazyness and incompetence

#923
Kiara

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Not buying it.. something like this shouldn't have to be only released on mexico, and we were told we would have news at PAX... not buying anything until it is on the site or officially announced at PAX :P

#924
Kitedtk

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Gigamantis wrote...

See how easily you broke over nothing?  This is exactly why your opinions can't be trusted.  You get upset and start rambling in ways that look similar to the incoherent reviews on metacritic.  You can't objectively review something when you're sobbing uncontrollably. 

What you should do is take a couple months of from gaming, spend some time with your family, re-asses your life then come back and tell us all how you feel. 

No what i'm going to do is do my best to communicate to Bioware that the emotional attachment so many of us have to this series is what matters... and that little punks like you are the minority and that you're in fact rather worthless... you've bought what... one game by them and now you're an expert? oh congratulations you little ******. some of us have been here for some time. some of us have cared for longer... Some of us... care enough... to want to help the game company make the better game...

i've never demanded anything... i've never said they should give me something for free because i want it... I've said what i'd like to see them make... and what i'd be willing to support them in making by paying for it...

so giga... take your prejudice and your superiority complex and leave.

#925
Gigamantis

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Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I don't mind repetitive content sometimes, it's just annoying when dumb people get all worked up the millisecond an artist tries something different.  The ending you happened; it was sad; it confused you and now Bioware isn't allowed to make sad open-ended endings anymore.  There's enough games and movies out there for emotionally unstable people like yourself, I enjoy heavy handed emotion and I like thinking.  Thinking is fun. 

Don't worry, if the movement works Bioware will be back to releasing the most generic stuff they can come up with, just to make sure they don't scare you.  Hard to believe you're still crying. 

No you like being a useless troll you little ******. you mean by the most generic stuff ... by that you mean the largest and most influential and most touching science fiction drama with the largest fan base in the sci fi game world.... yeah... generic... wow... well played...

obviously what you like isn't thinking... it's taking whatever is put infront of you and ladling it in your mouth...
I like knowing what the impacts of decisions i made... i like knowing what happens... sure something can be open ended... but when it's ALL open ended.. it's not good writing.. it's lazyness and incompetence

it's not all open-ended, that's just you still riding on your knee-jerk emotional reactions.  The truth is with the slightest amount of thought you could come up with many satisfying explanations, or might even enjoy the emotional severity of feeling lost and helpless. 

It is entertaining watching you fall apart, though, so please continue.