1158 réponses à ce sujet

[Kitedtk]

Gigamantis wrote...

Hahaha... again...you've got some kind of obsession that the feedback that is emotional must be bad... i don't see how... if i feel strongly about something i'd argue that my opinion has more merit... my feelings mean i think more and i feel so strongly about it that i want it to matter more... where as your purely puerile and sterile opinion doesn't really carry weight to me... note... i said to me... please don't try to take that out of context...

It's fine to be invested in a game but you need emotional clarity to even think straight. When I'm really angry about something I don't think through my opinions I just relentlessly trash what I'm angry at, but when I stop being angry it turns out that most of the things I said aren't fair or true.

Emotions blind you.

emotions strenthen you. foolishness blinds you.

[Gigamantis]

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

look again i never said that ending was stricly so horrid. but it wasn't what was promised... suure you can keep that ending i've said that too before... but on it's own it's yet again not what was promised... variety... and variety should include... sad, hopeless, lost, but also... joyful... grim... remorseful... happy, good... desolate... a new start... looking to the future... but instead we only have one option... your sad ending... and again i'm saying that's not what was promised and it's not sufficient for such a magnificent series. ME3 had an insufficient ending.

Sad is what the creators wanted and they didn't promise you the endings would run the gambit from happy to sad. The variety you had was ultimately different kinds of sad endings. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted but it's what the games developers wanted. The ending was a good ending, and you should be able to admit that even though it didn't suit your particular tastes.

no you didn't have different kinds of endings... you had the same ending three times with a colour palett swap... in other words... a failure to deliver... and if your variety is always the same... as in always sad... again, you've failed as a story teller... hell atleast have one be bittersweet rather than just all be disappointments... there's a reason the fan reaction is so strong. Bioware dropped the ball... we're trying to make them pick it up again.

No, you have different endings.  Them not being different enough is an opinion.  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.  The point wasn't to appeal to you personally, the point was to end the series in an enthralling way.  I'll repeat, AGAIN, the ending was good.  It was objectively good even though it didn't have the content you wanted it to have.

[knightnblu]

EA and BioWare can do whatever they want to do. But if they don't fix the ending, I am going to let them know about it by closing my wallet. That's just the way that I feel. We were promised something and they didn't deliver. I want what was promised. We were promised myriad endings and we got 3. They can call it art if they like, I call it something else.

In the end, I will be happy if they give us a 4th ending and call it a day so long as Shepard doesn't die in vain and the entire galaxy isn't tossed into a dark age and isolated for a quarter million years and all organic life isn't changed into something new against their will thus violating the essence of what they are.

I don't think that is too much to ask.

[Gigamantis]

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Hahaha... again...you've got some kind of obsession that the feedback that is emotional must be bad... i don't see how... if i feel strongly about something i'd argue that my opinion has more merit... my feelings mean i think more and i feel so strongly about it that i want it to matter more... where as your purely puerile and sterile opinion doesn't really carry weight to me... note... i said to me... please don't try to take that out of context...

It's fine to be invested in a game but you need emotional clarity to even think straight. When I'm really angry about something I don't think through my opinions I just relentlessly trash what I'm angry at, but when I stop being angry it turns out that most of the things I said aren't fair or true.

Emotions blind you.

emotions strenthen you. foolishness blinds you.

That was a lot of nothing you just posted.  Emotions turn you into a blithering mess unless you can control them.  People who let their emotions leak into what should be an objective opinion aren't controlling their emotions.

[Vilegrim]

Gigamantis wrote...

look again i never said that ending was stricly so horrid. but it wasn't what was promised... suure you can keep that ending i've said that too before... but on it's own it's yet again not what was promised... variety... and variety should include... sad, hopeless, lost, but also... joyful... grim... remorseful... happy, good... desolate... a new start... looking to the future... but instead we only have one option... your sad ending... and again i'm saying that's not what was promised and it's not sufficient for such a magnificent series. ME3 had an insufficient ending.

Sad is what the creators wanted and they didn't promise you the endings would run the gambit from happy to sad. The variety you had was ultimately different kinds of sad endings. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted but it's what the games developers wanted. The ending was a good ending, and you should be able to admit that even though it didn't suit your particular tastes.

No, it really wasn't it was: a) A direct copy of the endings of the original Deus Ex,  guilty of removing character agency, not once does Shep object, or challenge genocide kids reasoning, or argue that he is wrong (as thweQuarian/Geth alliance and EDI are valid counter points to his claims) , no Shep is forced to accept the 3 options the worse mass murderer in the history of sentient life puts in front of him, and all of them say: Diversity is to be obliterated. If your message is only homogenous civilisations survive.. then why start then?  It completly changes the message of the entire series from one of strength in diversity to one of the supremacy of one culture.

[TemplarLord]

I guess now all cards are on the table. Now I just need to find the thread where steps are explained to return my Origin copy. If I still can.

Poorly played Bioware, I'll miss you

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.

Fact is not opinion.

[Triple4]

If this is true, I'm never buying anything from Bioware or even EA again, I don't care what other games EA publish or Bioware create, they are NOT getting another penny out of me.

Modifié par Triple4, 03 avril 2012 - 08:23 .

[Myrmedus]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

I don't mind repetitive content sometimes, it's just annoying when dumb people get all worked up the millisecond an artist tries something different.  The ending you happened; it was sad; it confused you and now Bioware isn't allowed to make sad open-ended endings anymore.  There's enough games and movies out there for emotionally unstable people like yourself, I enjoy heavy handed emotion and I like thinking.  Thinking is fun. 

Don't worry, if the movement works Bioware will be back to releasing the most generic stuff they can come up with, just to make sure they don't scare you.  Hard to believe you're still crying. 

No you like being a useless troll you little ******. you mean by the most generic stuff ... by that you mean the largest and most influential and most touching science fiction drama with the largest fan base in the sci fi game world.... yeah... generic... wow... well played...

obviously what you like isn't thinking... it's taking whatever is put infront of you and ladling it in your mouth...
I like knowing what the impacts of decisions i made... i like knowing what happens... sure something can be open ended... but when it's ALL open ended.. it's not good writing.. it's lazyness and incompetence

it's not all open-ended, that's just you still riding on your knee-jerk emotional reactions.  The truth is with the slightest amount of thought you could come up with many satisfying explanations, or might even enjoy the emotional severity of feeling lost and helpless. 

It is entertaining watching you fall apart, though, so please continue. 

I'm hardly falling apart... but it's getting rather dull to see you making the same argument all the time. you're not giving any true reasons why what is there is good... you're just arguing that changing it is bad without any real valid reason for that either... but... here we go again...
okay feeling lost and helpless... why is that a good ending to a game that has always been about struggling to overcome challenges... why is lost and helpless good in a game where you forge bonds with people and strive with them to save others... why is that good? give me a reason... provide justification.

I've actually given several reasons why it was good throughout this thread alone.  Creating the sensation of hopelessness in a game is a story-telling success.  The only way an elicitation of emotion is unsuccessful is if the audience feels nothing. 

I'm actually kinda sick of happy endings and I'm sick of never having to put an ounce of thought into anything I watch or do.  ME3 had a good ending. 

I would argue that elliciting an emotion in your audience and story-telling success are not necessarily the same thing - one is a pre-requisite of the other (emotion a pre-requisite of a story-telling success) rather than an interchangable relationship. Stating they're essentially the same is like saying: if all rats are caps, and all caps are fabs then all fabs are rats - they're not, it's simply a pre-requisitional relationship.

There is also a gigantic, titanic leap between a happy ending and a hopelessness ending. Besides, ok, hold the phone for a second: you liked it as is. Ok, fair enough, but tell me why it's not reasonable that the ending you received was just one of many? Why do the rest of us have to suffer an ending we despised, that destroyed the series' narrative for us, just so you can enjoy your ending when the possibility exists - and existed - for us to both be happy?

This is the biggest issue I have with what are called "pro-enders" - they seem to assume that their subjective enjoyment of the ending invalidates the subjective dislike of the ending by others - it does not.

From a purely opinionated standpoint too: I honestly don't understand how an individual can like a "hopeless" ending. I really don't. There have been sad endings I've watched to movies that I've liked and considered a good ending. There have been bittersweet. There have been ones that brought a tear to my eye. I can't honestly say the feeling of "hopelessness", however, constitutes a satisfactory conclusion...that is one of the most despairing emotions that people strive to avoid feeling in life.

Honestly, there is enough negativity in the world without also producing such hollow, vacant emotions from a product of art or literature.

I'm not saying we should all get an "all singing, all dancing" ending - to be honest some of the happy endings proposed by people on these forums I wouldn't want in my ME game for a variety of reasons - but come on, there's a big gap between that and "hopelessness" - a gap which should be filled with a variety of endings.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 03 avril 2012 - 08:25 .

[Gigamantis]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.

Fact is not opinion.

But that is factually his opinion.

[luzburg]

ide say a little to late april fools joke

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

People who let their emotions leak into what should be an objective opinion aren't controlling their emotions.

An opinion cannot be objective. It is a subjective concept.

[The Night Mammoth]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

look again i never said that ending was stricly so horrid. but it wasn't what was promised... suure you can keep that ending i've said that too before... but on it's own it's yet again not what was promised... variety... and variety should include... sad, hopeless, lost, but also... joyful... grim... remorseful... happy, good... desolate... a new start... looking to the future... but instead we only have one option... your sad ending... and again i'm saying that's not what was promised and it's not sufficient for such a magnificent series. ME3 had an insufficient ending.

Sad is what the creators wanted and they didn't promise you the endings would run the gambit from happy to sad. The variety you had was ultimately different kinds of sad endings. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted but it's what the games developers wanted. The ending was a good ending, and you should be able to admit that even though it didn't suit your particular tastes.

no you didn't have different kinds of endings... you had the same ending three times with a colour palett swap... in other words... a failure to deliver... and if your variety is always the same... as in always sad... again, you've failed as a story teller... hell atleast have one be bittersweet rather than just all be disappointments... there's a reason the fan reaction is so strong. Bioware dropped the ball... we're trying to make them pick it up again.

No, you have different endings.  Them not being different enough is an opinion.  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.  The point wasn't to appeal to you personally, the point was to end the series in an enthralling way.  I'll repeat, AGAIN, the ending was good.  It was objectively good even though it didn't have the content you wanted it to have.

Objectively good? 

What the f**k are you talking about? You have zero objective evidence to back that up.

[Madeline Lightning]

I'm done with bioware. pathetic writing if that's the ending when they hint throughout the whole series more intelligent directions to go, that they apparently won't if that top post is even true. There's no point to playing anything. I'll just watch the new dlc explanation on youtube and move on. Hopefully writers and top creative directors will be fired, but it's totally damaged Bioware as a studio for me.

Modifié par Madeline Lightning, 03 avril 2012 - 08:27 .

[Gigamantis]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

People who let their emotions leak into what should be an objective opinion aren't controlling their emotions.

An opinion cannot be objective. It is a subjective concept.

An opinion can be based on objective criteria, which is what most people who attempt to have valid opinons do. 

[Myrmedus]

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

look again i never said that ending was stricly so horrid. but it wasn't what was promised... suure you can keep that ending i've said that too before... but on it's own it's yet again not what was promised... variety... and variety should include... sad, hopeless, lost, but also... joyful... grim... remorseful... happy, good... desolate... a new start... looking to the future... but instead we only have one option... your sad ending... and again i'm saying that's not what was promised and it's not sufficient for such a magnificent series. ME3 had an insufficient ending.

Sad is what the creators wanted and they didn't promise you the endings would run the gambit from happy to sad. The variety you had was ultimately different kinds of sad endings. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted but it's what the games developers wanted. The ending was a good ending, and you should be able to admit that even though it didn't suit your particular tastes.

no you didn't have different kinds of endings... you had the same ending three times with a colour palett swap... in other words... a failure to deliver... and if your variety is always the same... as in always sad... again, you've failed as a story teller... hell atleast have one be bittersweet rather than just all be disappointments... there's a reason the fan reaction is so strong. Bioware dropped the ball... we're trying to make them pick it up again.

No, you have different endings.  Them not being different enough is an opinion.  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.  The point wasn't to appeal to you personally, the point was to end the series in an enthralling way.  I'll repeat, AGAIN, the ending was good.  It was objectively good even though it didn't have the content you wanted it to have.

I'm sorry Giga, but this really is clutching at straws now. Ok, you like the endings, etc. but trying to argue those three choices are truly different endings is really, really clutching now. The "endings" are not formed enough to consider them different: it is like trying to observationally say 3 wafts of smoke are different from one another.

[Gigamantis]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

look again i never said that ending was stricly so horrid. but it wasn't what was promised... suure you can keep that ending i've said that too before... but on it's own it's yet again not what was promised... variety... and variety should include... sad, hopeless, lost, but also... joyful... grim... remorseful... happy, good... desolate... a new start... looking to the future... but instead we only have one option... your sad ending... and again i'm saying that's not what was promised and it's not sufficient for such a magnificent series. ME3 had an insufficient ending.

Sad is what the creators wanted and they didn't promise you the endings would run the gambit from happy to sad. The variety you had was ultimately different kinds of sad endings. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted but it's what the games developers wanted. The ending was a good ending, and you should be able to admit that even though it didn't suit your particular tastes.

no you didn't have different kinds of endings... you had the same ending three times with a colour palett swap... in other words... a failure to deliver... and if your variety is always the same... as in always sad... again, you've failed as a story teller... hell atleast have one be bittersweet rather than just all be disappointments... there's a reason the fan reaction is so strong. Bioware dropped the ball... we're trying to make them pick it up again.

No, you have different endings.  Them not being different enough is an opinion.  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.  The point wasn't to appeal to you personally, the point was to end the series in an enthralling way.  I'll repeat, AGAIN, the ending was good.  It was objectively good even though it didn't have the content you wanted it to have.

Objectively good? 

What the f**k are you talking about? You have zero objective evidence to back that up.

Well produced.  Elicits a strong emotional reaction and leaves me with some interesting concepts to play around with in my head.  I'd say that hitting you emotionally and making you think are objective criteria to base an opinion on.

[Alent]

I see we are still feeding the troll...

[Myrmedus]

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

People who let their emotions leak into what should be an objective opinion aren't controlling their emotions.

An opinion cannot be objective. It is a subjective concept.

An opinion can be based on objective criteria, which is what most people who attempt to have valid opinons do. 

True, but objectivity in art is based upon consensual subjectivity.

In short, unlike Mathematics there is no "2 is greater than 1"

You can definitely pull the objectivity card to an extent with art, I've done it before too, but you'd need to recite generally considered successful story-telling precepts to backup your opinion first. As far as I'm aware, ME3's ending falls into very few of those if any....

Modifié par Myrmedus, 03 avril 2012 - 08:30 .

[FOX216BC]

BIOWARE ALREADY has responded on twitter, So CALM DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a link in this article.
http://news.softpedi...ys-262610.shtml

twitter link
https://twitter.com/...071073299337216

Modifié par FOX216BC, 03 avril 2012 - 08:32 .

[Alex Arterius]

If true... then me saying bye bye to Bioware

Finger up to fans across the wooooorld...

[Gigamantis]

Myrmedus wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

look again i never said that ending was stricly so horrid. but it wasn't what was promised... suure you can keep that ending i've said that too before... but on it's own it's yet again not what was promised... variety... and variety should include... sad, hopeless, lost, but also... joyful... grim... remorseful... happy, good... desolate... a new start... looking to the future... but instead we only have one option... your sad ending... and again i'm saying that's not what was promised and it's not sufficient for such a magnificent series. ME3 had an insufficient ending.

Sad is what the creators wanted and they didn't promise you the endings would run the gambit from happy to sad. The variety you had was ultimately different kinds of sad endings. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted but it's what the games developers wanted. The ending was a good ending, and you should be able to admit that even though it didn't suit your particular tastes.

no you didn't have different kinds of endings... you had the same ending three times with a colour palett swap... in other words... a failure to deliver... and if your variety is always the same... as in always sad... again, you've failed as a story teller... hell atleast have one be bittersweet rather than just all be disappointments... there's a reason the fan reaction is so strong. Bioware dropped the ball... we're trying to make them pick it up again.

No, you have different endings.  Them not being different enough is an opinion.  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.  The point wasn't to appeal to you personally, the point was to end the series in an enthralling way.  I'll repeat, AGAIN, the ending was good.  It was objectively good even though it didn't have the content you wanted it to have.

I'm sorry Giga, but this really is clutching at straws now. Ok, you like the endings, etc. but trying to argue those three choices are truly different endings is really, really clutching now. The "endings" are not formed enough to consider them different: it is like trying to observationally say 3 wafts of smoke are different from one another.

I'm saying they were different and for me they were different enough.  The main point I was conveying is that they were different, period, because people are trying to claim they weren't. 

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

People who let their emotions leak into what should be an objective opinion aren't controlling their emotions.

An opinion cannot be objective. It is a subjective concept.

An opinion can be based on objective criteria, which is what most people who attempt to have valid opinons do. 

Different opinions can arise from same set of facts. Arguments used to validate opinions can be right or wrong, sound or flawed, and use facts in their formulation. Facts can be of different nature (scientifically proven, "objective", generally accepted, etc). The "objective criteria" apply to facts, not to opinions.

[Myrmedus]

Gigamantis wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

look again i never said that ending was stricly so horrid. but it wasn't what was promised... suure you can keep that ending i've said that too before... but on it's own it's yet again not what was promised... variety... and variety should include... sad, hopeless, lost, but also... joyful... grim... remorseful... happy, good... desolate... a new start... looking to the future... but instead we only have one option... your sad ending... and again i'm saying that's not what was promised and it's not sufficient for such a magnificent series. ME3 had an insufficient ending.

Sad is what the creators wanted and they didn't promise you the endings would run the gambit from happy to sad. The variety you had was ultimately different kinds of sad endings. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted but it's what the games developers wanted. The ending was a good ending, and you should be able to admit that even though it didn't suit your particular tastes.

no you didn't have different kinds of endings... you had the same ending three times with a colour palett swap... in other words... a failure to deliver... and if your variety is always the same... as in always sad... again, you've failed as a story teller... hell atleast have one be bittersweet rather than just all be disappointments... there's a reason the fan reaction is so strong. Bioware dropped the ball... we're trying to make them pick it up again.

No, you have different endings.  Them not being different enough is an opinion.  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.  The point wasn't to appeal to you personally, the point was to end the series in an enthralling way.  I'll repeat, AGAIN, the ending was good.  It was objectively good even though it didn't have the content you wanted it to have.

Objectively good? 

What the f**k are you talking about? You have zero objective evidence to back that up.

Well produced.  Elicits a strong emotional reaction and leaves me with some interesting concepts to play around with in my head.  I'd say that hitting you emotionally and making you think are objective criteria to base an opinion on.

Subjective.

[Vaktathi]

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

People who let their emotions leak into what should be an objective opinion aren't controlling their emotions.

An opinion cannot be objective. It is a subjective concept.

An opinion can be based on objective criteria, which is what most people who attempt to have valid opinons do. 

And based on what objective criteria, how exactly is the ME3 ending good? there's a lot of reasons noted for it being bad, violation of reader-writer contract, violation of character agency, massive plot holes that undermine the precepts of ME1 and ME2, unexplained actions and events that have huge implications for the game universe and no particular reasons given pushed in at the last minute with no foreshadowing or anything, etc.

I can't think of anything that was good about the ending. We have some magical "twist', but nothing about it is forshadowed or expected, and it's completely out of character with the rest of the series.