1158 réponses à ce sujet

[Doctor_is_in]

Here's where I stopped reading: "EA says..."

[Myrmedus]

Gigamantis wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Kitedtk wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

look again i never said that ending was stricly so horrid. but it wasn't what was promised... suure you can keep that ending i've said that too before... but on it's own it's yet again not what was promised... variety... and variety should include... sad, hopeless, lost, but also... joyful... grim... remorseful... happy, good... desolate... a new start... looking to the future... but instead we only have one option... your sad ending... and again i'm saying that's not what was promised and it's not sufficient for such a magnificent series. ME3 had an insufficient ending.

Sad is what the creators wanted and they didn't promise you the endings would run the gambit from happy to sad. The variety you had was ultimately different kinds of sad endings. I'm sorry it's not what you wanted but it's what the games developers wanted. The ending was a good ending, and you should be able to admit that even though it didn't suit your particular tastes.

no you didn't have different kinds of endings... you had the same ending three times with a colour palett swap... in other words... a failure to deliver... and if your variety is always the same... as in always sad... again, you've failed as a story teller... hell atleast have one be bittersweet rather than just all be disappointments... there's a reason the fan reaction is so strong. Bioware dropped the ball... we're trying to make them pick it up again.

No, you have different endings.  Them not being different enough is an opinion.  The fact that you didn't want sad is also an opinion.  The point wasn't to appeal to you personally, the point was to end the series in an enthralling way.  I'll repeat, AGAIN, the ending was good.  It was objectively good even though it didn't have the content you wanted it to have.

I'm sorry Giga, but this really is clutching at straws now. Ok, you like the endings, etc. but trying to argue those three choices are truly different endings is really, really clutching now. The "endings" are not formed enough to consider them different: it is like trying to observationally say 3 wafts of smoke are different from one another.

I'm saying they were different and for me they were different enough.  The main point I was conveying is that they were different, period, because people are trying to claim they weren't. 

Obviously when people say that they're using hyperbole to illustrate a point - it's a short-cut rather than typing an entire para -graph or -phrase to explain what they mean.

I don't begrudge you enjoyment of the ending, in fact I envy you, but to produce any kind of objectivity on art you essentially have to compare it to a knowledge-base amassed over the years as to what constitutes the "successful" (even that could be interpreted differently) construction of a narrative: in short, we're talking about precepts that writers use to write stories.

A basic precept is one for a possible structure for a narrative: introduction, initial conflict, temporary victory, uneasy calm, temporary defeat, recovery, final conflict, resolution, conclusion.

That's an example of a precept: they're structures that have been used to produce stories over the ages that have shown consistent success where going against the grain of it produces mixed to disastrous results. Even then, it's not gospel, going against it doesn't assure failure, just statistically you're less likely to produce a popular or engaging story etc.

That's just one example of what I mean but basically to measure a story objectively you have to compare it to the existing knowledge-base - that's as close to objectivity in art that you can ever get.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 03 avril 2012 - 08:38 .

[Demonhoopa]

Sweawm wrote...

I never wanted them to scrap the ending. I only wanted a continuation, with better conclusion. Or better, continuation through Indoctrination theory.
This isn't particularly bad.

The Catalyst clearly stated that while Illusive man was right about "control", he could never do it becuase he was indoctrinated. Shepard CAN control the Reapers because she clearly was not indoctrinated.

The indoctrination theory is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Modifié par Demonhoopa, 03 avril 2012 - 08:34 .

[Iconoclaste]

Demonhoopa wrote...

Sweawm wrote...

I never wanted them to scrap the ending. I only wanted a continuation, with better conclusion. Or better, continuation through Indoctrination theory.
This isn't particularly bad.

The Catalyst clearly stated that while Illusive man was right about "control", he could never do it becuase he was indoctrinated. Shepard CAN control the Reapers because she clearly was not indoctrinated.

The indoctrination theory is nothing more than wishful thinking.

The Catalyst might be lying.

[FOX216BC]

BIOWARE ALREADY RESPONDED!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO CALM DOWN
https://twitter.com/...071073299337216

Modifié par FOX216BC, 03 avril 2012 - 08:37 .

[Gigamantis]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

People who let their emotions leak into what should be an objective opinion aren't controlling their emotions.

An opinion cannot be objective. It is a subjective concept.

An opinion can be based on objective criteria, which is what most people who attempt to have valid opinons do. 

Different opinions can arise from same set of facts. Arguments used to validate opinions can be right or wrong, sound or flawed, and use facts in their formulation. Facts can be of different nature (scientifically proven, "objective", generally accepted, etc). The "objective criteria" apply to facts, not to opinions.

Objectivity is simply a lack of pre-conception and other factors that would mitigate your ability to be fair.  It doesn't exist in any pure form when gauging opinions but some are definitely more objective than others. 

[FlyinElk212]

Bleeeegh, still no response from the Bioware mods?

That can't be good......

[dorktainian]

just a reminder of the fact the relays lay waste when they 'blow'......

[Gigamantis]

Obviously when people say that they're using hyperbole to illustrate a point - it's a short-cut rather than typing an entire para -graph or -phrase to explain what they mean.

When your point is that you were the victim of fraud because there weren't different endings you can't really take that shortcut.

[nevar00]

Well... ****. I'm not surprised if this is true though, to be honest.

I can't see the "clarifying" matter at all, that mess is absolutely unsalvageable. Well, PAX should be fun at any rate.

[Tiax Rules All]

FOX216BC wrote...

BIOWARE ALREADY has responded on twitter, So CALM DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a link in this article.
http://news.softpedi...ys-262610.shtml

twitter link
https://twitter.com/...071073299337216

i dont know what to think

[xXxPoopballs]

Well no DLC for me i guess. Not worth buying anything knowing my Shepard is going to die. If nothing new isnt released after PAX im returning all 3 mass effects and forgetting them entirely.

[FOX216BC]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Bleeeegh, still no response from the Bioware mods?

That can't be good......

Do people actually read the replies?


https://twitter.com/...071073299337216

[Iconoclaste]

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

Gigamantis wrote...

People who let their emotions leak into what should be an objective opinion aren't controlling their emotions.

An opinion cannot be objective. It is a subjective concept.

An opinion can be based on objective criteria, which is what most people who attempt to have valid opinons do. 

Different opinions can arise from same set of facts. Arguments used to validate opinions can be right or wrong, sound or flawed, and use facts in their formulation. Facts can be of different nature (scientifically proven, "objective", generally accepted, etc). The "objective criteria" apply to facts, not to opinions.

Objectivity is simply a lack of pre-conception and other factors that would mitigate your ability to be fair.  It doesn't exist in any pure form when gauging opinions but some are definitely more objective than others. 

It exists in science and mathematics. In language, it is much debatable, agreed. That is why good form is important.

[EndrzGame]

Well, if that's true then Bioware has just made my 'B-list of developers to watch'. Not to mention no more pre-orders, launch day purchases or buying any dlc. I'll buy a BiowEAr game in the future I'm sure. FAR in the future after the 'game of the year' edition hits the discount rack for $15-$20. Probably won't hurt them in the long run. I'll feel better though knowing I haven't thrown good money after bad.

[Myrmedus]

Gigamantis wrote...

Obviously when people say that they're using hyperbole to illustrate a point - it's a short-cut rather than typing an entire para -graph or -phrase to explain what they mean.

When your point is that you were the victim of fraud because there weren't different endings you can't really take that shortcut.

Fraud perhaps not, and if they were literal in that claim then...lol.

However, if someone claimed BW/EA were being opportunist then that would have some weight - 16 different endings is a very, very opportunist statement: that would be like me selling an antique sword to someone only for them to find out it's made of plastic: "Well, it is an antique though."

Perhaps, technically, I'm right...but the spirit is all wrong and becoming of a con-artist.

[Tiax Rules All]

FOX216BC wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Bleeeegh, still no response from the Bioware mods?

That can't be good......

Do people actually read the replies?


https://twitter.com/...071073299337216

sould make new topic,
Bioware comments on Leak

[FlyinElk212]

FOX216BC wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Bleeeegh, still no response from the Bioware mods?

That can't be good......

Do people actually read the replies?


https://twitter.com/...071073299337216

Sorry, didn't see your replies. This thread moves fast.

Thanks!

[shepskisaac]

Ray Muzyka already said this. I still don't get why some people are expecting entirely different ending when Ray already said it will be a clarification of the existing one.

[Demonhoopa]

Iconoclaste wrote...

Demonhoopa wrote...

Sweawm wrote...

I never wanted them to scrap the ending. I only wanted a continuation, with better conclusion. Or better, continuation through Indoctrination theory.
This isn't particularly bad.

The Catalyst clearly stated that while Illusive man was right about "control", he could never do it becuase he was indoctrinated. Shepard CAN control the Reapers because she clearly was not indoctrinated.

The indoctrination theory is nothing more than wishful thinking.

The Catalyst might be lying.

The response of the "desperate to believe".

LOL. I'll leave you to it then.

[Iconoclaste]

FOX216BC wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Bleeeegh, still no response from the Bioware mods?

That can't be good......

Do people actually read the replies?


https://twitter.com/...071073299337216

Can you summarize? I do not have a "twitter" account, and will never open one.

[Tiax Rules All]

Iconoclaste wrote...

FOX216BC wrote...

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Bleeeegh, still no response from the Bioware mods?

That can't be good......

Do people actually read the replies?


https://twitter.com/...071073299337216

Can you summarize? I do not have a "twitter" account, and will never open one.

dont believe it unless you hear it from an official EA rep or Bioware Rep or official twitter page

other words rumors

[Iconoclaste]

Demonhoopa wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

The Catalyst might be lying.

The response of the "desperate to believe".

LOL. I'll leave you to it then.

It's been adressed in IT already. Long thread there to read.

[The Night Mammoth]

Gigamantis wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Objectively good? 

What the f**k are you talking about? You have zero objective evidence to back that up.

Well produced.  

Subjective, but I think it was poorly produced. The scenes were a mismatch and had no continuity. The only redeemable part is the music.

Elicits a strong emotional reaction and leaves me with some interesting concepts to play around with in my head.

The emotional reactions I felt were confusion, followed by anger. The concepts posed were utterly asinine. 

So..... Subjective, again. 

'd say that hitting you emotionally and making you think are objective criteria to base an opinion on.

They're also criteria for basing the complete opposite opinion on, so whilst the basic existence of these things are objective facts, your interpratation is subjective, so you don't have true objective fact to base your opinion on. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 03 avril 2012 - 08:45 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

dont believe it unless you hear it from an official EA rep or Bioware Rep or official twitter page

other words rumors

Did you notice they didn't deny it?